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Dungeons & Dragons Online: Turbine Sues Atari Over DDO
MikeB
Community ManagerAdministrator RarePosts: 6,555
In a report appearing over at the Courthouse News Service, it has been revealed that Turbine is suing Atari over Dungeons & Dragons Online.
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Turbine alleges that Atari allowed for Turbine to pursue the DDO: Unlimited project in exchange for payments, as well as future royalty payments, but had no intention of devoting enough resources to promoting and distributing the title.
As a result of this, Turbine is accusing Atari of not living up to their contractual obligations, and alleges this was done purposefully so that Atari could claim Turbine was in breach of contract when the project ultimately suffered due to Atari not living up to their end of the deal. This would allow Atari to terminate their relationship with Turbine and pursue a new D&D project at Turbine's expense.
Turbine was contacted for a statement, but as a legal matter they cannot comment on the particulars of the case.
Comments
If this is true, that's pretty low of Atari to do.
I wonder how this is going to effect the launch of D&D??
Some people rob you at gun point..Others will rob you at "Ball Point Pen"
It seems to me that this is going to put things back.
There's no telling how long they could be in court. The article doesn't mention anything about a length of time or how far they have gone with the case, or if they putting things on hold for this issue. These are details that we really need in news like this. Otherwise, it just seems like idle gossip. Not my style, personally.
It almost seems as similar what Hanbitsoft did to FSS over Hellgate. Well I'm a sub for D&D and have never been a fan of f2p models. Though in this case I hope it works out. If the article is true however, I might consider a boycott of Atari products all together. Just doesn't seem fair.
Just a heads up, but someone alluded to Atari people losing their jobs. There won't be any job losses due to action by Turbine, at Atari. Atari is kind of like EA, in that they are a publisher; not so much a developer. Turbine is a developer. In fact, Atari is a company whose business practices make EA look good. That is why the Atari guys are generally shunned by most devs. Unless convincing evidence comes out to alter the view, I would have to go with Turbine on this one, just based on what everyone in the industry knows about Atari, and how underhanded they can be.
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Tried- L2, Ryzom, WAR, DDO, PWI, Tab Rasa, Requiem, Champs, AA, JD, PWI, SUN, Dawntide
Played- SWG (pre-cu), AoC, VG, WoW, LoTRO,CoX, EQ2, DAOC, GW, PotBS, Aion, MO,APB, NASA, Fallen Earth, DCUO, Rift
Playing- EVE, Black Prophecy, TOR
Waiting for- Tera, Jumpgate Evo, WH40K, WWE, WOD, TSW
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"Hey, if Activision liked it, then they should have put a ring on it," Double Fine President Tim Schafer said. "Oh great, now Beyonce is going to sue me too."
Thank you for this post. It's interesting to know that Atari is being sued by Turbine for this.
I don't really trust court verdicts to be an accurate reflection of the truth, and of course there is still not one out, but considering Atari's track record the case rings true already now. I wouldn't mind seeing Atari get a whack over their corporate nose.
I look forward to more info as the case unfolds. Thanks!
Yeah, it was a shady thing to do on Atari's part. But what is the underlying message here? I think it's that Atari realizes that DDO in it's iteration isn't a very viable MMO. If the heavily instanced game as it was made (granted I haven't played it since a few months after it's release) was in such a state they had to open up a F2P portion to their business model, well they're hurting for subscriptions in my opinion.
I bet Atari wants to see the DnD license in a more traditional MMO setup, with a large world and multiple cities and such. To be honest, I do too. Granted, it'd have to be 3.5 ruleset or below.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Wow...this is bad for Turbine. And bad for DDO
I just hope Turbine wins this one, and maybe even close damn Atari ... but than again Atari just bought Cryptic...
Serves them well for going down with Bill Roper...that guy just invites catastrophies...
Anyway, rotten news
Oh crap! If Atari bought Cryptic, and the rumor is that Cryptic's "other MMO" they are working on is DnD based, then this makes sense, lol! It's not right, but it makes sense.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
link to Filings: http://www.courthousenews.com/2009/08/26/Atari.pdf
Yes, you propose an interesting scenario of how things could play out. On the one hand, I feel bad for Turbine and am tempted to boycott all Atari future products... However, on the other hand, if Atari does win, they could do whatever they want w/ the IP, and maybe hopefully make a new MMO with it that's possibly in a persistent world as apposed to instanced. Maybe this could work out to the advantage of D&D fans overall.
If Atari does win, well maybe it would be in the best interest of the IP to shut down D&D and make a new MMO from scratch... well who knows at this point.
I guess we'll all find out soon enough what will happen after the court's decision.
Oh crap! If Atari bought Cryptic, and the rumor is that Cryptic's "other MMO" they are working on is DnD based, then this makes sense, lol! It's not right, but it makes sense.
Incredible... is this The Curse of Bill Roper at work on games not even associated with him? Will is somehow and mysteriously spread across to board to unrelated titles? Being "flagshipped" once was bad enough. O.o
I hope Atari succeeds in their nefarious plan. I love D&D more than any other IP ever, but DDO is disgustingly bad. Turbine ruins everything and I hate them. I would love to see a new D&D project come up.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
I really would too, but I am nearly certain it would be 4.0. Shame, but almost certain.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
From what I remember, DDO isn't distgustingly bad at all. It's quite competent as an MMO where you can explore and actually go dungeon crawling. Remember Dungeons & Dragons?
At least the first several levels were nice. I don't know about the rest of the game content.
Can anyone name any other MMOs with similar freedom when it comes to exploring, climbing, jumping, swimming? And not just as a gimmick either, but as a necessary part of the game that rewards you?
A large world might be cool, but it seems it's something they could add if they wanted to / had the resources. No need for the game to be completely trashed and remade.
I think everyone should read the Filing http://www.courthousenews.com/2009/08/26/Atari.pdf and if even half of that is truth then I hope Atari will be put out of buisness for good, seems like a very shady company.
"Atari’s conduct as described herein not only constitutes a breach of its obligations
under the Agreements, but also constitutes actionable fraud. By this lawsuit, Turbine seeks to
recover in excess of $30 million in losses occasioned by Atari’s breach and wrongful conduct.
Turbine also seeks a declaration that Atari’s claim for additional royalty fees and purported
grounds for termination of the parties’ Agreements are unfounded and without basis in the
Agreements."
Turbine even tried to help Atari when they financial troubles...
"At one point, in or about September 2006, Atari owed Turbine millions of dollars in outstanding
royalties which Atari told Turbine’s former Chief Financial Officer, Peter Faubert, that Atari
simply did not have the money to pay. In an effort to accommodate Atari and Atari’s financial
distress, Turbine agreed to offset the royalties owed to Turbine by Atari against those owed to
Atari by Turbine"
This not about if you like the game or not, this about a company screwing over another company badly, and also screwing all the people who enjoy DDO and think its a great game. (one of the best MMOs in my opinion)
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
I really would too, but I am nearly certain it would be 4.0. Shame, but almost certain.
Well, here's hoping. That said, I have to agree with you as they even define the "classes" in 4.0 with MMO gaming terms (Tank, DPS, etc.)
@Baneshade - "Dungeons" don't always have to be underground or in an enclosed space. Overland areas are fully capable of being "dungeons" in their own right. I say that as a long time DM/GM and player for pencil & paper tabletop DnD, Shadowrun, Gamma World, etc.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
http://www.massively.com/2009/08/26/breaking-turbine-sues-atari-over-dungeons-and-dragons-online/#continued
Here is the massively write up about the story, seems more detailed.
basicly no company can afford f2p venture so any means to get money is good as long as its not coming from our own pocket
.why did they bother with this is a mystery to me.cant compete with wow in p2p and cant afford f2p market oh i got it
having read the article i do hope atari just plainly remove right from ddo pay the 30 million and just re-lunch the game ,
coming to the court after what 2 years gees come on basicly turbine cant afford another publicity campain new f2p ddo
lol ddo is 2 years old atary did their part when game was lunched their part is done and finished ,the new f2p version is turbine or whatever new guy descided f2p was good idea want publicity at next superbol im sorry but its not atary problem anymore
they done their part when game was lunched
men in america everybody sue everybody some people have too much time on their hands
I really would too, but I am nearly certain it would be 4.0. Shame, but almost certain.
Well, here's hoping. That said, I have to agree with you as they even define the "classes" in 4.0 with MMO gaming terms (Tank, DPS, etc.)
@Baneshade - "Dungeons" don't always have to be underground or in an enclosed space. Overland areas are fully capable of being "dungeons" in their own right. I say that as a long time DM/GM and player for pencil & paper tabletop DnD, Shadowrun, Gamma World, etc.
DDO have plenty of outdoor areas to explore.. heh some of the zones are bigger and less linear than the ones in AoC
Sure it would be nice with a non instanced world in DDO but considering that the game have better combat than most MMOs, better character custimiaztion and by far the best dungeon crawls, then you have to cut of some features to make it work.
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
Well, yeah, everyone fails compared to WoW's equivalent of 6 million subscribers.
Turbine have been expressing their interest for an RMT game for well over two years, so the change to RMT is not a proof that the game was hurting for subscription. Mow, don't get me wrong, DDO is not a commercial success by any means but it was the little train that could. Everyone, from the start, condemned it as dead and it lasted for well over three years now.It found its niche and the strong but small community kept it alive.
It's a game totally unlike all the EQ-clones we've been seeing for 10 years now, and enough people liked that to keep the game going for years. Now, Turbine's trying to attract more players with a more flexible payment model (which what DDO:EU really is) and with advertisement, which is something that Atari has denied them for years.
DDOwiki - Sharing DDO knowledge!
You bring up some good points, and no I can't think of any MMO that had exploring (or searching skill i think), climbing, jumping, swimming? And not just a gimmick.... yes I did like that aspect of the quests that utilzed those skills/actions, and used them quite well. Some quests you would need like high skill points into swimming... The Crucible is one quest that I beileve needed a high swim skill to pass a certain part (and usually one member of the party would be selected for that part). Well you make a good point. I currently have one level 16, 3 level 14's, and enjoy this game in many ways. But it would be nice to see Atari do something different. However, they should still incorporate the aforementioned skills, and not just as a gimmick. Whatever they do, and given that they win in court, they should utitlze those skills in the same way as is current, and make D&D more a persistent world instead of just instancing everything. Howerver that's not to say that everything should be persistent. Perhaps a good and balanced blend of the two?
Well I guess I'm jumping the gun on this, as this is all hypothetical and speculative since it's in the court process...
I really don't see how Turbine has ruined anything. LOTRO is a great game with way more content than any other MMO out right now. And DDO is a fun action/RPG MMO game. I'll admit back when DDO was coming out I played the CB and hated it. But I just recently started playing it again and I love it. The only bad thing about DDO is the lack of content updates. Hopefully after Mod 9 comes out Turbine will try to be more timely with their content updates. LOTRO really hasn't had this problem yet. Perhaps they are just understaffed to put updates out in a timely manner for both games and just put more resources into LOTRO as it has more subscribers. Honestly if LOTRO used DDO's combat system LOTRO would be even better than it is. Combat is just a tad slow in LOTRO I will admit. Other than that both games are very well done and are quite polished.
So how exactly did they ruin DDO for you?
Well, yeah, everyone fails compared to WoW's equivalent of 6 million subscribers.
Turbine have been expressing their interest for an RMT game for well over two years, so the change to RMT is not a proof that the game was hurting for subscription. Mow, don't get me wrong, DDO is not a commercial success by any means but it was the little train that could. Everyone, from the start, condemned it as dead and it lasted for well over three years now.It found its niche and the strong but small community kept it alive.
It's a game totally unlike all the EQ-clones we've been seeing for 10 years now, and enough people liked that to keep the game going for years. Now, Turbine's trying to attract more players with a more flexible payment model (which what DDO:EU really is) and with advertisement, which is something that Atari has denied them for years.
Never brought that "game's" name up in what I wrote nor even thought about when I was writing that. So, that's your comparison, not mine. I don't ever use that game as a realistic reference point when talking about realistic achievements in the MMO genre.
As for the other part, well, as I stated, it's my opinion and for the moment I'll maintain it.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
http://www.courthousenews.com/2009/08/26/Atari.pdf
Seems, from day one. Turbine has had to do just about everything to bring DnD online to life. With Arti constiantly stabbing them in the back.
If anything, this reinforces that Turbine is an increadable devloper, Arti failed time and time again on every single thing they were contracted to do, and Turbine picked up the ball time and time again and carried on and would just eat the loss in time, money, and manpower.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me