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General: Massey: Why Not A Mystery MMO?

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  • NahnarNahnar VeszprPosts: 16Member
    Originally posted by Greenie


    Well yea but the game rules of Monopoly center around "going to jail, community chest, marvin gardens, boardwalk etc.
    There are other games that employ the rules of Staring on a point A and rolling a die or dice in order to progress. You can earn money,property, etc  during the game.
    So again, that goes to actually copying of the game specifically and not just we have a murder you walk around talk to npcs and solve the case.

     

    Yes, but those are not game rules (those are told u to know how to use the game, but u can play it another way if u like, they dnt telling u that rolling a dice is "rule" of the game). Becouse u can use any kind of things to step forvard from A to B, for exemple i have 6 digital dice machine, so its not dice. But i can use 6 piece of a paper too to write 6 number on them and we can pull it from a hat.

    Dnt sure: have u tried to play a game or use anything witouth knowing how to play or use it.... u can go backward on the tablet too... On rules we mean general rules, not those walktroughts they give for game or for the product.  (Im not a bird, am i? than stop looking for my wings...)

    General rules are like: after the starting point, this will comes and after that, and u cant write that i wrote on that point, neither u can use up the idea to make these points in the same order, neither u can make a board with same number of tiles/points....

  • GreenieGreenie Orange Park, FLPosts: 553Member
    Originally posted by Nahnar


     
    Yes, but those are not game rules (those are told u to know how to use the game, but u can play it another way if u like, they dnt telling u that rolling a dice is "rule" of the game). Becouse u can use any kind of things to step forvard from A to B, for exemple i have 6 digital dice machine, so its not dice. But i can use 6 piece of a paper too to write 6 number on them and we can pull it from a hat.
    Actually in the game of life, sorry, and many other board games you DO use dice to progress as stated by the rules.
    Dnt sure: have u tried to play a game or use anything witouth knowing how to play or use it.... u can go backward on the tablet too... On rules we mean general rules, not those walktroughts they give for game or for the product.  (Im not a bird, am i? than stop looking for my wings...)
    General rules are like: after the starting point, this will comes and after that, and u cant write that i wrote on that point, neither u can use up the idea to make these points in the same order, neither u can make a board with same tiles/points....
    Again I think you're confusing rules of the game with actually stealling copyrighted material. The "specifics" of the game.  The specific of the game/world design. The specific of tiles and points. In a mystery the rules are always going to remain the same... A crime is committed, you search for clues, gather evidence, and solve the mysteries. Now the specifics would be:  The mystery itself, the NPC names,etc.  Those are things that would need to be copied not the general ideas or rules of a mystery. Afterall, Agatha Christie, SHerlock holmes, Charlie Chan all pretty much operate under the same "rules".



     

  • NahnarNahnar VeszprPosts: 16Member

     Well, i see u worked lot to out-comment me (im so happy that i can teach u to try to see things with developers eye, for real, im kinda happy to do it), but still, u dnt thinking as som1 who was workd for years in this subject.

    Specifics are specifics, and game rules (general) are game rules (general), mostly those things u tried to write as "game rules" are "game rules" in customers sight. But i realy assume u to try to think that u are the first person who have a game idea, and u wish to apply it for copyright law. I know its hard, but try to imagine it. What u want to be inside ur application?

    If u think it thru:

     - U cant put in lines that tells the ppl how to play. (rules like this kills freedom out from the game)

      Example: if players can only use dice to play (i think playing any kind of game makes u free from the reality). So if u saying this to a customer that if he / she not playing ur game with dice, then he / she commits lawbrake... (?) This way u will never sell ur game, coz customer maybe have the idea (or simply analphabet) to play with papers i mentioned. And ur saying then, that he / she doing illegal activity? (WTF?) - if u put this line inside ur copyright applycation, u can be sure it will be a dead-end for the sellings.

     

    Then what lines left if u dnt want others to copy it?

    -  U can put in line, that u was the one who tought "this" game out. (u cant say this kind, coz theres no other kinds u know of)

    -  U can say that general rules in ur opinion are those, that ppl notice as specifics of the game. (why good?)

     Coz players will have their freedom in game, other ppl cant copy it (so there cant be an exactly like urs).

     

     After thinking it thru, that this was the first person who made a game, u can imagine, that ppl started to think out games not like that one exactly. So 1 or 2 tiles less/more, in other style of gaming, with other words they used, but with the same kind of application form; there is lot of games that looks like a copy, but its not. Thus if u nowadays try to say in an application that u tought out "that kind" of the game, thats not true, and u cant proove it.

  • NahnarNahnar VeszprPosts: 16Member

     If u think forward on it u will notce that RPG, SC-FI, ROMANCE and other style books was before games, so ppl cant say that i making a game in the same ideas too... And thats why u can choose from lots of games looks like the same style that those books written before. And developers still only can say that i made this and this, and not this kind.

     By the way u cant use game engine that others own too, and that makes this game happening even harder coz making a completely new engine takes 10-15 years, and then u can upgrade it....

     

  • GreenieGreenie Orange Park, FLPosts: 553Member
    Originally posted by Nahnar

    Originally posted by Greenie


    Well yea but the game rules of Monopoly center around "going to jail, community chest, marvin gardens, boardwalk etc.
    There are other games that employ the rules of Staring on a point A and rolling a die or dice in order to progress. You can earn money,property, etc  during the game.
    So again, that goes to actually copying of the game specifically and not just we have a murder you walk around talk to npcs and solve the case.

     

    Yes, but those are not game rules (those are told u to know how to use the game, but u can play it another way if u like, they dnt telling u that rolling a dice is "rule" of the game). Becouse u can use any kind of things to step forvard from A to B, for exemple i have 6 digital dice machine, so its not dice. But i can use 6 piece of a paper too to write 6 number on them and we can pull it from a hat.

    Actually in the Games Life, Sorry, and Others they do state in the rules to roll the dice. As for using a dice machine or paper, does not change that two different games from two different companies both are using the same rules. It doesn't matter which came first because these 'types' of rules are not copyright protected.

    Dnt sure: have u tried to play a game or use anything witouth knowing how to play or use it.... u can go backward on the tablet too... On rules we mean general rules, not those walktroughts they give for game or for the product.  (Im not a bird, am i? than stop looking for my wings...)

    Yea this made absolutely no sense to me.

    General rules are like: after the starting point, this will comes and after that, and u cant write that i wrote on that point, neither u can use up the idea to make these points in the same order, neither u can make a board with same number of tiles/points....

    I still have no idea what this has to do with copyright. In order to be against the law in copyright, there has to be a specific duplication or theft of product, not a generalization of it. If what I think you're saying were true, soda companies would be suing each other because they all make soda.



     

  • TotemthumperTotemthumper ocala, FLPosts: 22Member

    Why do i even bother reading this guys blog's. I feel dumber everytime i am done reading it  remove this guy .

  • KordeshKordesh P, NJPosts: 1,715Member

     Why not? Data mining. Given that an entire game gets charted by obsessives within the first two days of release, if not sooner, a mystery MMO would be a mystery all of two seconds. Unless you want a content team working over time developing things faster than people can discover them, not going to happen. 

     

    edit: Never mind, just saw the author. the same idiot who did the article about RP servers. Why is this guy allowed to even speak let alone given a news spot...

    Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.

    EAT ME MMORPG.com!

  • NahnarNahnar VeszprPosts: 16Member

    Before posting somthin read what u say.... " soda companies would be suing each other because they all make soda."

    I got ur way of thinking, u switching products, with product making. Yes they all make soda, but not with the same stuff of producing materials (some soda has more, some has less from those materials they use when they making it, but in the end it will be still soda, just like the other). So it means that any1 can make soda on lots of ways.

     

    by the way if i know it correct we have different copyright forms for producing a book, for producing a food, and for producing a game....

  • TheHavokTheHavok San Jose, CAPosts: 2,398Member Uncommon

    Why not a Mystery MMO?  The same reason why mystery games are never popular.  The only mystery game, and this is a stretch, that ever reached critical acclaim was Myst, and they already tried and failed to create an MMO.

     

    Serious Dana, go back to X-files.

  • NahnarNahnar VeszprPosts: 16Member

    Cant develope somthing before its finished, true, but have to make ur product in the way others can develop. u cant just say, that i make a game this way, and in the end developers recognise that u stole the whole product.

    On making ur game this way, i mean u making ur game idea this way.

  • GilgameeshGilgameesh NapoliPosts: 412Member
    Originally posted by Ozmodan


    If you thought about this for a few seconds you would realize why a Mystery MMO would be a massive undertaking.  Because the only way to do it is to have different solutions for everyone otherwise the cheaters who look things up on the web would own the game.  Unfortunately I don't think you can have that many solutions, hence this idea falls flat on it's face.
    Nice try, but no cigar on this thread....

     

    Uhm, the internet is full of websites containing spoilers, cheats and solutions for most of the quests of any MMO. Strategy guides, character builders and so on...

    I don't see any difference, really. The only difference is about the people. I 'm pretty sure a mistery MMO woukd never attract kids that play to compete at any cost, instead of having fun.

    It could never be a millions players MMO, but, if well done can get some success as niche game, with a mature audience, that play to have fun.

    BTW, i think Myst failed because they focused too much on the 'ages' and less on crafting. A mistery game, specifically, an 'archeological' game such as Myst, could greatly benefit with a good crafting system.

    Too long to explain more in deep.

     

     

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  • YuuiYuui KaunasPosts: 723Member


    Originally posted by Saerain
    Although it is plenty violent, I've been under the impression that Funcom's The Secret World will be our adventure/mystery/puzzle MMO.


    ^QFT.

    Secret World seems like it will really be something new(no level system, etc, gameplay based on solving mysteries and etc) fitting "Mystery MMO" genre.


    Having high hopes for this one. Hopefully other companies will follow and this will develop into its own genre, just as MMORTS had.

    # A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY
    # ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED
    # A MASKED CRY ADORING
    # A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON

  • muttleymuttley pulaski, VAPosts: 16Member

    you see a mob

    you cast fast interview

    interview first target

    cast stop right there on second target

    say nice day area effect

    F5 hotkey dialog tree

    ......

  • FlirtFlirt LempPosts: 44Member

    I'd love a mystery mmo in style of Sherlock Holmes or any of Agatha Christie's stories.

    What would appeal more players in it as well would be that players could create content. Player created mysteries  and they could possibly be the game master for it :)

  • Methos12Methos12 Maladis 46Posts: 1,234Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by muttley


    you see a mob
    you cast fast interview
    interview first target
    cast stop right there on second target
    say nice day area effect
    F5 hotkey dialog tree
    ......

    Wow... you just made me think - Persona's monster negotiation system meets Vanguard's diplomacy system. Epic.

    Nature without Technology is little more than animals running about.
    Nature without Magic is without wonder or miracle.
    .........
    Magic without Technology is fantasy.
    Magic without Nature is formless and useless.
    .........
    Technology without Nature is application without understanding.
    Technology without Magic is repetitious and uninventive.
  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,187Member Uncommon

    Mosf of these posters don't seem to get it, once someone solves something the solution will be on the net within hours.  So that precludes using solving mysteries as a way to advance your character, those that look things up will always be miles ahead of you.  Even introducing randomness won't help much, just more solutions posted.

    While single player mysteries work well as you are playing against the computer, they just collapse when it comes to a MMO setting.

    I have not read one suggestion in this thread that works for a game like this in a MMO setting. 

  • zimzimzimzim HareidPosts: 60Member

     I can see this idea work as a Singelplayer/MP game, but not as a MMo, the replay is not ther, and so the revenu for the company making it will not be large enof to supoert the staf needed to ceep the game running. Solw a mystery one time, and the rest will be just repeet, Mindles Grind all ower, just in a difrent lock then in a normal Heroic wow instant. might end upp even more boring. and adding a new "dungoen"/hous/murder every day will demand a loot of staf.

    But take a lok at Seacret world........ get the mysteries combined whit the "normal content".  then your starting to get som replay, and som mony for the company making it.  

     

    The hole idea sounds just like a quest in my opinion just a bit smarter aranged...

     

    Quest text, Find out who killed "name her". Clues are inside the house, and whitnes are in the livingrome.

    Killed can be traded for, stolen, raped, Smashed and so on, but its stil just a quest, and will only be solwed one time. (i hate daily quests), and if every quest will be like that, that will end upp beeing WERY boring. 

     

     

    I WANT A SCI-FI MMO!! (NOT EVE, or Fom, or FE)

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar drummondville, QCPosts: 7,987Member

    mm mystery mmo on paper is nice

    like socialism is nice on paper like democracy is nice on paper

    but when you hadd the human factor and how to implement it lol

    thats where the problem start

    first in a mystery mmo be it agatha cristhy style of myst

    you cant just do a pve schript

    so say its a mafia vs cop thing

    unless the player is the one acting as a mob or police people will get bored

    myst style cant honestly be an mmo i could be wrong

    so say

    you do a mystery mmo it would need schedule e-mail etc why

    there is a game if its still going on

    it use all the comunication device in existance

    like your at the office you would receive a real fedex package saying go to x.y.z location etc

    you went there something would happen etc

    it was a while back

    people went like wtf is this they had forgotten they were still playing some put cop on these issue untill they found out it was their on stupidity

    it was insanelly real (just a game tho)

    so in my view an online mmo that would be a mystery

    would need to be linked with an e-mail so that if you need to be at x spot in the gasme for various reason game maker can send an e-mail for it etc

    can it be made today probably very easy

    but would it be popular or creep people out like when they made that real life mystery game

    beat me

    i can say for my self ,it would probably creep me out to receive an e-mail from say wiskeyjack

    in say x-file online (imaginary player)saying i need to logon to respond to alcapone inquiry of any kind

    i cannot even imagine how they could make such a game

    but i can say it defenetly need to be horror mystery

    the fear factor is always the big incentive to mystery

    like a bone chilling music or a small beat like jaws 

    doodumddom etc

    with a chilling picture its perfect 

    but it would have to be adult rated 

    i dont believe mystery mmo can be done for all age 

    i might be wrong,but its hard to keep player playing if its not spooky enough and parent dont want their children to play those game 

    hell a game maker in the past did pretty aggressive content in a bandit police game 

    hell they were almost floged by parent 

    they sold humongus amount of that title but when parent begun to play with kids or even play themselves ,they were like wow this is way too violent for my baby (lol)

    so can mystery mmo work mm probably but for adult only !

     

  • elderotterelderotter Syracuse, NYPosts: 651Member
    Originally posted by Dana

    Originally posted by Death1942

    Originally posted by Dana

    Originally posted by Death1942


    i respect you dude, i really do...but this article is beyond stupid.
    Mystery MMO...are you serious?  ALL of the content needs to be hand crafted for a start and so far i have seen pretty lackluster stuff by devs and player made content is still underdeveloped.  Your point about walkthroughs and guides basically points out the one of the biggest flaws with this style of game.

     

    Clue is a pretty good example of a mystery mechanic that doesn't require hand crafting... that was the core idea.

    The walkthrough thing is tough, I agree though.

    tell you what, why have a game devoted to the mystery genre.  Why not incorperate mystery elements into current and future MMO's?  I've seen lots of lore that could easily be turned into a mystery quest/event.  Also i think it could boost exploring a bit more (searching for clues), something i find fun in many games

     

    I agree, and I think I touched on that at one point. Basically, niche games in my opinion are a big part of evolution. Without combat, someone could do a really, really good mystery game. Then more mainstream MMOs might pick up the good parts. ;)

    A lot of the great mystery novels had some combat in them, that's why Holmes brought Watson along. Add a little combat and you might get the idea to sell... without it the boredom factor will set in.

    PS - for example:  same Clue scenario but as the killer's identity is getting closer and closer to being revealed then the killer starts trying to take out those who are hot on the trail, and you find yourself having to defend against the killer as he/she sets traps for you or tries to poison/stab/shoot you.

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar drummondville, QCPosts: 7,987Member

     yep sim mystery, could be a big succes since its still one of the biggest if not the biggest game franchise

    but it need to be so different then what they usually make im not sure we ll ever see a mystery mmo

  • xaldraxiusxaldraxius Hastings, MIPosts: 1,249Member


    Originally posted by Kordesh
     Why not? Data mining. Given that an entire game gets charted by obsessives within the first two days of release, if not sooner, a mystery MMO would be a mystery all of two seconds. Unless you want a content team working over time developing things faster than people can discover them, not going to happen. 
     
    edit: Never mind, just saw the author. the same idiot who did the article about RP servers. Why is this guy allowed to even speak let alone given a news spot...


    Most of us who would enjoy a mystery MMO wouldn't have any fun if we cheated at it, so we wouldn't go to those sites. Moreover, if the mystery was a random event spawned by a decently designed random event generator there could be thousands or even more possibilities. You couldn't possibly write a guide for them all as sometimes a mystery might seem to be going down one path when something someone does suddenly sends it along another.

    It wouldn't be a WoW killer, but it'd have a good community.

    Edit: I hate WoW, I just acknowledge it's large fan base.

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,762Member Uncommon

    <Puts on his Deer Stalker Outfit>

    The rise and fall of the adventure genre is not a mystery dear boy. The flooding of the PC market by a younger demographic made shooters and such the new PC best sellers. The Xbox which is essentially a rubbed down PC hailed the final nail in the coffin for the distinction that existed between console games and PC games. As always game designers go where market sales lead them and with the under twenties becoming the big spenders in the PC market, there was no hope adventure games could survive. Rather elementary dear Dana.

  • linrenlinren Irvine, CAPosts: 578Member

    Cheating on a mmorpg have had always been beyond my comprehension, and cheating on a mystery mmorpg is another few notches below the belt.

     

  • WingmaWingma CaketownPosts: 102Member

    was wondering something like this the other day, but more in line with "wtb survival horror mmorpg", had a few ideas in the area too... not really as a whole genre, but a mmorpg that has aspects of it at certain times (e.g. the start or it pops up in a main quest line)

  • themiltonthemilton Denton, TXPosts: 353Member

     

     

    Originally posted by Ozmodan


    Mosf of these posters don't seem to get it, once someone solves something the solution will be on the net within hours.  So that precludes using solving mysteries as a way to advance your character, those that look things up will always be miles ahead of you.  Even introducing randomness won't help much, just more solutions posted.
    While single player mysteries work well as you are playing against the computer, they just collapse when it comes to a MMO setting.
    I have not read one suggestion in this thread that works for a game like this in a MMO setting. 



     

    Something that no one has pointed out about Clue is that you play as one of the suspects, but even you don't know if you did it until the end of the game. While you know it's going to be one of these 6 people with one of these 6 weapons done in one of these 9 rooms, you don't know which particular combination it is for that instance.

    But I don't think a Clue-style game would make a good MMO.  It would rapidly get repetitive and tedious as you figure out which of the 324 instances you're in. Could definitely be done as an online game, but just in an online gaming parlor.

    I do like the idea of a mystery MMORPG. I'd play it, for sure.

    I could see it being a skill-based system with a few affiliations instead of classes. Maybe cop, private eye, and reporter. Each affiliation would be part of your character's back story and give you access to different resources. Maybe as a cop you'd have access to a crime lab and as a PI you'd have better connections to the underworld. As you solve cases, you get skill points to go towards diplomacy or intimdation or "eyesight." And maybe you start getting bigger cases, promotions, stories, pay offs...

    For team situations, you could get points based on your contributions to solving the case. Everybody gets something once the case is solved, but you get a bonus for finding evidence or scaring off an intruder before he commits another theft/murder.

    The big hurdle would be creating new content and foiling spoilers as much as possible.

    -------------
    The less you expect, the more you'll be surprised. Hopefully, pleasantly so.

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