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sw:ToR | JGE | Aion | MO | CO | EaRi | DC | FE | --- I am not excited! Industry has failed us!

DraccanDraccan CopenhagenPosts: 1,050Member

I know everyone here has their own favorite (upcoming) mmo. Fine.

But hand on heart - disregarding your keen interest in YOUR upcoming favorite mmo - isn't the selection and industry in general rather lackluster?

SW:ToR - has a huge following due to it being Star Wars and Bioware combined. But this is going to be a shiny co-op game with story that drives your character in a way with no freedom at all. Hardly an mmo.

JGE - is like EVE without all the things that makes EVE great. Player economy won't be the same. It will be heavily instanced. PvP is arena like. Sure it appeal to the joystick crowd, but without depth it looks like meh..

Aion - probably the most polished game coming out. But despite the many nicer aspects of it it still just look like the same old, same old...

MO - Word on the street is that is is bad in a big way. The whole "pay for beta" and "we will releash it unfinished" is pretty bad, I think. Some will be happy - but certainly not a game of perfection coming out.

CO - this is just an update (copy paste, says some) of COH. I like the comic book graphics, actually. But again with no villain side from the get go, no real pvp, I see little incentive to play it. Slapping Villains on as an afterthought is just not a good or stable idea. For COH I had already gotten tired of it before COV came out.

EaRi - This is the one I really would like to like. On paper it got all the right things. Game videos though show it is still far from being great when it comes to combat. I am still keeping an eye out, though. Hopefully they can do something with this.

DC - this is just not going to fly. The game videos released look completely lackluster. And there is nothing in what they have released that looks anything but a boring theme park. It will flunk way more than CO, that at least have a cohesive style (hate it or love it)..

FE - Fallen Earth has some cool concepts, sandboxy elements. But the graphics look like something of the mid nineties. Like the first Rainbow 6 game. I can't get excited with something that looks worse than the average games for my iPhone. Also word on the street is pretty, pretty, PRETTY bad...

STO - after going in and out of development, I am kinda sceptical. Still to early to call, but I can't see any way that this can work and be true to the IP. With cockpits it will be  a mess. With pure spaceships like JGE it will not be Star Trek. I think this is a hit and run attempt to milk the IP, but let's be fair - we have no clue yet.

Huxley - pay pr. month to play Counterstrike? Hmm.. I don't think so. From what I have seen it lacks the depth and massiveness to make it an mmo worth paying a monthly fee for.

Black Prophecy - JGE-like game. I hope it will have more depth than JGE seems to have. Less instances, more open world, more hardcore pvp. I haven't followed it too much. We shall see..

 

All in all there is little to be excited about. At least not if you are looking for a massive - in-depth game. I am not looking for real life simulators as some might say - merely an in-depth game that offers everything the technology can bear. We have the chance to have real, large online games where you can build up and tear down worlds - and all we get is games that take us by the hands in their little IP theme parks. OR we get "hardcore" games like Darkfall that essentially just is bad development and bad ideas in the sense that to me (!) there is nothing hardcore about full loot ffa pvp either in an environment stripped of any pve or world content.

There is a big lack of intelligent design, great stories built upon massive worlds. I would play EVE which I respect a lot, if it just didn't feel boring to me.

I guess the class of 2009 - 2010 will not be a major one to remember...

 

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Comments

  • ShastraShastra ParisPosts: 1,061Member

    Jesus Christ....do you ever stop whining?

  • m240gulfm240gulf San Diego, CAPosts: 460Member Uncommon

    Maybe you've outgrown MMO's?  I would say it's time for you to move on and enjoy the rest of your life without this genre

    I Reject your Reality and Substitute it with My Own!
    image

  • sa1yamansa1yaman FPosts: 272Member

    Ya blabla same old, same old etc. Maybe  you are getting old. 90s are gone, as times where any new game massive leap from last one.  But trust me, Anyone who will play games like SWOR, FFXIV, JGE, Aion as first MMO will be as happy/amazed as you were playing UO or EQ for first time.

  • lornphoenixlornphoenix Seaford, DEPosts: 993Member

    OK I'll touch on JGE and BP here.

    1st off BP from what I seen and read looks more instanced then JGE.

    Open a menu, pick a mission, and you are whisk away to it instantly... well after a short load screen, but still.

    What worries me about JGE is Battlespace. The instance PvP zones, your arena like PvP.

    I worry that Battlespace is going to kill Open RvR PvP in the contested area, kinda like Scenarios did in WAR.

     

    image
  • green13green13 SydneyPosts: 1,340Member

    I'll admit I've been very disappointed by the mmo industry in the last few years.

    Wish and Dragon Empires never even made it to release and after Vanguard... well I kind of stopped hoping.

    TR could have been a fantastic game, but was released early and they never managed to fix it. All they'll be remembered for is sending "Lord British" to the moon and delightfully entertaining typos in their advertising on this site, just before the game officially went under.

    But the OP is totally off base about some of his claims.

    CO isn't just CoH 2. They've tried to take the best elements of CoH and take them further, and they've ditched the elements that weren't so popular (eg. the randomly generated but completely repetitive missions). On the flip side, they've ninja'ed in a subscription + MTs payment model, and have spent months not answering questions about it. Six weeks from release and one of the game's most core, defining features has still not been explained...

    On the plus side, I've just learned that someone else has picked up Marvel Online. Hopefully that will have a more palatable payment model.

    I can understand why you'd say that DC's videos look lacklustre if you've only seen the first one. I was really unimpressed with that. But I watched the Doomsday one last night and my jaw dropped. When that ice-cubed someone and then blew them off the building... and when that player ran along the bridge and then over the edge and then kept running upside down on the underneath side of the bridge... That looks sooooooo awesome.

    I've only been in one closed-beta weekend for Aion, but I'm hopeful. There's nothing new about the PvE - but they don't claim anything ground-breaking there - and the PvP at least sounds good in theory. And they've made lots of nice, small changes. Eg. I always hated in WOW how Ironforge looked like a clone convention, because everyone was wearing the same top-end raid gear. The fact that you can swap stats on gear in Aion so that players can have top-stats gear, but with different looks - small things like that are genuine improvements.

    I'll add that I'm saddened by the probably loss of Stargate Worlds.

  • arctarusarctarus nilPosts: 2,570Member Uncommon

    Than brother, there is only 1 LAST mmo for you...

    But thousands will disagree...

    Blizzard next mmo...

     

     

     

    RIP Orc Choppa

  • Addt4Addt4 MonmouthshirePosts: 99Member

    Why do people get so hung up on the graphics? AoC spent lots of time and money on it, look where that game is now.....

    Most people seem to review the games on how they first look, myself if it was old EQ1 graphics, but good mechanics I wont give a stuff.

  • DraccanDraccan CopenhagenPosts: 1,050Member
    Originally posted by arctarus


    Than brother, there is only 1 LAST mmo for you...
    But thousands will disagree...
    Blizzard next mmo...
     
     
     



     

    Actually it is one company that I trust not to create a carbon copy of WoW. :-p

     

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  • DraccanDraccan CopenhagenPosts: 1,050Member

     

     

     



     

    Hi

    DC - I think that video (I saw it almost a half year ago) is just as lackluster as the rest.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heQHHD3q5Ug - I just think the graphics are not cohesive and it looks bland. On top of that, the gameplay seems stale. I could be wrong of course, but this game is on the bottom of my list.

    CO is COH 2.0. As you said, they try to build on that game. Looking at gameplay footage it looks very much like that other game only with more genuine cartoonlike graphics. However even the blue neon energy walls separating cities and areas look the same. My main gripe though is that it has no pvp - no villains, as I wrote. How can that be off base?

    Yup sad about SG.W but that too was supposedly not very good.

    Aion - I have to check it out - will likely give it a chance... But that is still not contrary to what this post is about, the lack of massive in-depth worlds and the lack of intelligent mmo design.

     

     

     

     

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  • CzzarreCzzarre Cleveland, OHPosts: 3,742Member

    Perhaps its more corrent to state "INdustry has failed you"

    Many players are very happy with the games they play.

  • LynxJSALynxJSA Sarasota, FLPosts: 2,601Member

    I guess it's all a matter of perspective. In that list, I see games for the sci-fi crowd, the post apoc crowd, the exploration crowd, the PVP crowd...

     

    I see a great collection of options coming up in the near future and I'm excited about it!

     

    EVE Online: 'Dominion' Trailer Now on YouTube
    "...if there is a fair fight happening in new eden, both fcs did something wrong." - batolemaeus

  • dp88dp88 Troy, NYPosts: 26Member

    There are two things that I don't like about future mmo's. 

    1. There aren't any more expansive worlds. I like the huge worlds that take awhile to travel like vanguard, Anarchy Online, and others. Without the long distances and even with some mostly dead space in between, the world (and by extension, the game) just doesn't feel convincing.

     

    2. A lot of the future "MMO"s don't even seem like mmos. They seem like guild wars. MMO makes have always justified the subscription cost by saying that running a large persistant world costs a lot more than the simple battlenet like interface for starcraft and diabloII. I beleive that. Guild wars bridged the gap between mmo's and diabloII by heavily instancing everything, thereby making everything cheaper to maintain. They did this for free. Its really a bridge between an mmo, and not much different than the simple battlenet from diabloII. These new "mmo"s like SW:TOR, AoC, and Black Prophesy seem to be just as instanced as Guild Wars. And they are going to charge you by the month for it.

     

    edit: this does not apply to all mmos. Bit it does seem to apply to a growing number of them.

  • NovaKayneNovaKayne Houston, TXPosts: 743Member

    Just because you are not excited does not mean others are not.

     

    That being said, there are games out there that are still viable and fun to play.   Try taking some time to get passed the new and shiney and be able to enjoy the game.  If not, take some time from MMO's there are lots of Single player and multiplayer games coming out that look interesting.

     

    I for one am a bit excited about the new Batman game and the anouncement of Mech Warriors V.

    Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.

  • DewmDewm Soldotna, AKPosts: 1,341Member

    I agree about 90%...none of the new games look that intresting to me....

     

    but thats why SE is saving us... once again...

     

     

                          FFXIV                     

     

                          WOOT!                 

    Please check out my channel. I do gaming reviews, gaming related reviews & lets plays. Thanks!

  • KhaunsharKhaunshar ViennaPosts: 350Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by dp88


    There are two things that I don't like about future mmo's. 
    1. There aren't any more expansive worlds. I like the huge worlds that take awhile to travel like vanguard, Anarchy Online, and others. Without the long distances and even with some mostly dead space in between, the world (and by extension, the game) just doesn't feel convincing.
     
    2. A lot of the future "MMO"s don't even seem like mmos. They seem like guild wars. MMO makes have always justified the subscription cost by saying that running a large persistant world costs a lot more than the simple battlenet like interface for starcraft and diabloII. I beleive that. Guild wars bridged the gap between mmo's and diabloII by heavily instancing everything, thereby making everything cheaper to maintain. They did this for free. Its really a bridge between an mmo, and not much different than the simple battlenet from diabloII. These new "mmo"s like SW:TOR, AoC, and Black Prophesy seem to be just as instanced as Guild Wars. And they are going to charge you by the month for it.
     
    edit: this does not apply to all mmos. Bit it does seem to apply to a growing number of them.

     

    While you arent wrong, I think a large reason for the increased usage of instancing is the player demand. The modern MMORPG crowd demands features that will not work in a persistent world, and are also not able to function very well as a community. In order to not upset them, you have to divide them, because concepts like camp checks, mutual respect, persistent bosses, limited loot and so on dont work with the modern audience.

    The only way to guarantee a gameplay experience that isnt negatively influenced by other players is to instance it. That way, you keep players away from each other, can reduce the friction.

    The modern casual audience seems to take it very poorly if other players can influence their gameplay experience in a way that they dont like.

  • AnzieAnzie Miami, FLPosts: 468Member

    What is EaRi?

    image


    Originally posted by Spathotan

    The simplest way to put this, is like this. Buying a used/refurbished 360 is on the same plane as sharing a condom in a gangbang with strangers.
  • ArturslArtursl RigaPosts: 24Member

    Some of the games you mentioned won't be a great success, yes. But games like CO, SW:TOR, JGE, in my opinion are slowly pushing the genre forward. Alright, CO is just a rehash of CoX but it's not like CoX was a bad game in the first place. It has great customization and from what I've seen CO will greatly improve on that and make it otherwise a more enjoyable experience.

    SW:TOR is like GW in a way, yes. But different things to different people, some like story driven games as opposed to massive, player controlled worlds. It has it's flaws from what i've seen, but overall it seems THE game for SW fans and people who like their games to have serious character progression choices.

    And what the heck is wrong with JGE? People have been asking for a game like this for ages. Action paced space combat MMO, Don't see how this isn't something new and doesn't help to improve the genre.

    I agree on one thing though, there aren't many sandbox projects anymore. Last one was Darkfall and from what I hear, it didn't go nearly as smooth as planned. Maybe devs don't want to risk it, because heck, how many really successful sandbox MMO's do we have? EvE online is one and sadly I can't think of any other. So If you're into sandbox games, yup I feel your pain.

  • ZepliniZeplini LeedsPosts: 274Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Addt4


    Why do people get so hung up on the graphics? AoC spent lots of time and money on it, look where that game is now.....
    Most people seem to review the games on how they first look, myself if it was old EQ1 graphics, but good mechanics I wont give a stuff.

     

    wtf, i will tell you why some get hung up on graphics they actually spend small fortune's on their pc, in this day and age you should be able to expect both gameplay and graphics to be both brilliant in any game release, they really  is no excuse for releasing one or the other.

    Aoc? how can you honeslty use that as a example? it would not have been in a better position with shite graphics and better gameplay, infact it would have been worse than it is now, they are other reasons why aoc is not popular which i would mainly put down to all the instancing.

    Playing: WoW, GW2, TSW, Wildstar
    Future: EQ3 maybe, loosing faith in this game fast.
    Played: Most current and extinct MMO's - 14 Years in....

  • prull09prull09 Westdorp, ONPosts: 30Member

    It's kinda sad but we'll have to agree here. Must be related to all the economic hassle that is going on around the world in some sort, because failure/greed is everywhere.

    Nice read this thread.

  • DarkPonyDarkPony RotterdamPosts: 5,566Member

    Sure, with every game there are aspects to bitch and moan about. Nothing new.

    Pick the lesser of those evils, put aside the pet peeves and have fun for at least some time.

    Because, yes, some of the things you mentioned are merely hypothetical.

    In *insert well known former communist state here* you fail the Industry!

  • VrazuleVrazule Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 1,095Member
    Originally posted by Addt4


    Why do people get so hung up on the graphics? AoC spent lots of time and money on it, look where that game is now.....
    Most people seem to review the games on how they first look, myself if it was old EQ1 graphics, but good mechanics I wont give a stuff.



     

    Maybe it's because MMOs are graphical in nature.  If all we wanted out of them was a wall of text, then we'd still be playing MUDs or reading books.  Graphics may not be THE most important aspect, but it is certainly a very significant part of it.  Text games forced you to use your imagination, but by that very token, they were not virtual worlds.  Graphics allowed for virtual worlds, for realized and stylish avatars, exciting action based combat and spell effects.  The more advanced the graphics and art style, the more immersive the game becomes to those who find the graphics style appealing.  They are integral to the suspension of disbelief.

    With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal

  • VrazuleVrazule Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 1,095Member
    Originally posted by Khaunshar

    Originally posted by dp88


    There are two things that I don't like about future mmo's. 
    1. There aren't any more expansive worlds. I like the huge worlds that take awhile to travel like vanguard, Anarchy Online, and others. Without the long distances and even with some mostly dead space in between, the world (and by extension, the game) just doesn't feel convincing.
     
    2. A lot of the future "MMO"s don't even seem like mmos. They seem like guild wars. MMO makes have always justified the subscription cost by saying that running a large persistant world costs a lot more than the simple battlenet like interface for starcraft and diabloII. I beleive that. Guild wars bridged the gap between mmo's and diabloII by heavily instancing everything, thereby making everything cheaper to maintain. They did this for free. Its really a bridge between an mmo, and not much different than the simple battlenet from diabloII. These new "mmo"s like SW:TOR, AoC, and Black Prophesy seem to be just as instanced as Guild Wars. And they are going to charge you by the month for it.
     
    edit: this does not apply to all mmos. Bit it does seem to apply to a growing number of them.

     

    While you arent wrong, I think a large reason for the increased usage of instancing is the player demand. The modern MMORPG crowd demands features that will not work in a persistent world, and are also not able to function very well as a community. In order to not upset them, you have to divide them, because concepts like camp checks, mutual respect, persistent bosses, limited loot and so on dont work with the modern audience.

    The only way to guarantee a gameplay experience that isnt negatively influenced by other players is to instance it. That way, you keep players away from each other, can reduce the friction.

    The modern casual audience seems to take it very poorly if other players can influence their gameplay experience in a way that they dont like.



     

    It was the camp and kill stealing losers that were responsible for the current paradigm shifts, but even back then, most players viewed the phenomena as very unappealing and game ruining.  Large guilds capable of blocking raid content by camping spawn points was a huge issue in the early 2000's and the uproar was epic.  The past audience wasn't any more forgiving of that kind of behavior  than the modern one.  The only difference now is that the nerdtastic developers that supported that kind of crap were either fired or are no longer in control, thank God.

    With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal

  • alakramalakram malagaPosts: 2,223Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Draccan


    I know everyone here has their own favorite (upcoming) mmo. Fine.
    But hand on heart - disregarding your keen interest in YOUR upcoming favorite mmo - isn't the selection and industry in general rather lackluster?
    SW:ToR - has a huge following due to it being Star Wars and Bioware combined. But this is going to be a shiny co-op game with story that drives your character in a way with no freedom at all. Hardly an mmo.
    JGE - is like EVE without all the things that makes EVE great. Player economy won't be the same. It will be heavily instanced. PvP is arena like. Sure it appeal to the joystick crowd, but without depth it looks like meh..
    Aion - probably the most polished game coming out. But despite the many nicer aspects of it it still just look like the same old, same old...
    MO - Word on the street is that is is bad in a big way. The whole "pay for beta" and "we will releash it unfinished" is pretty bad, I think. Some will be happy - but certainly not a game of perfection coming out.
    CO - this is just an update (copy paste, says some) of COH. I like the comic book graphics, actually. But again with no villain side from the get go, no real pvp, I see little incentive to play it. Slapping Villains on as an afterthought is just not a good or stable idea. For COH I had already gotten tired of it before COV came out.
    EaRi - This is the one I really would like to like. On paper it got all the right things. Game videos though show it is still far from being great when it comes to combat. I am still keeping an eye out, though. Hopefully they can do something with this.
    DC - this is just not going to fly. The game videos released look completely lackluster. And there is nothing in what they have released that looks anything but a boring theme park. It will flunk way more than CO, that at least have a cohesive style (hate it or love it)..
    FE - Fallen Earth has some cool concepts, sandboxy elements. But the graphics look like something of the mid nineties. Like the first Rainbow 6 game. I can't get excited with something that looks worse than the average games for my iPhone. Also word on the street is pretty, pretty, PRETTY bad...
    STO - after going in and out of development, I am kinda sceptical. Still to early to call, but I can't see any way that this can work and be true to the IP. With cockpits it will be  a mess. With pure spaceships like JGE it will not be Star Trek. I think this is a hit and run attempt to milk the IP, but let's be fair - we have no clue yet.
    Huxley - pay pr. month to play Counterstrike? Hmm.. I don't think so. From what I have seen it lacks the depth and massiveness to make it an mmo worth paying a monthly fee for.
    Black Prophecy - JGE-like game. I hope it will have more depth than JGE seems to have. Less instances, more open world, more hardcore pvp. I haven't followed it too much. We shall see..
     
    All in all there is little to be excited about. At least not if you are looking for a massive - in-depth game. I am not looking for real life simulators as some might say - merely an in-depth game that offers everything the technology can bear. We have the chance to have real, large online games where you can build up and tear down worlds - and all we get is games that take us by the hands in their little IP theme parks. OR we get "hardcore" games like Darkfall that essentially just is bad development and bad ideas in the sense that to me (!) there is nothing hardcore about full loot ffa pvp either in an environment stripped of any pve or world content.
    There is a big lack of intelligent design, great stories built upon massive worlds. I would play EVE which I respect a lot, if it just didn't feel boring to me.
    I guess the class of 2009 - 2010 will not be a major one to remember...
     

     

    Oh my god!

    -=AlaKraM=-
    Don't fight against poverty, fight against greed.
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  • dp88dp88 Troy, NYPosts: 26Member
    Originally posted by Vrazule

    Originally posted by Khaunshar

    Originally posted by dp88


    There are two things that I don't like about future mmo's. 
    1. There aren't any more expansive worlds. I like the huge worlds that take awhile to travel like vanguard, Anarchy Online, and others. Without the long distances and even with some mostly dead space in between, the world (and by extension, the game) just doesn't feel convincing.
     
    2. A lot of the future "MMO"s don't even seem like mmos. They seem like guild wars. MMO makes have always justified the subscription cost by saying that running a large persistant world costs a lot more than the simple battlenet like interface for starcraft and diabloII. I beleive that. Guild wars bridged the gap between mmo's and diabloII by heavily instancing everything, thereby making everything cheaper to maintain. They did this for free. Its really a bridge between an mmo, and not much different than the simple battlenet from diabloII. These new "mmo"s like SW:TOR, AoC, and Black Prophesy seem to be just as instanced as Guild Wars. And they are going to charge you by the month for it.
     
    edit: this does not apply to all mmos. Bit it does seem to apply to a growing number of them.

     

    While you arent wrong, I think a large reason for the increased usage of instancing is the player demand. The modern MMORPG crowd demands features that will not work in a persistent world, and are also not able to function very well as a community. In order to not upset them, you have to divide them, because concepts like camp checks, mutual respect, persistent bosses, limited loot and so on dont work with the modern audience.

    The only way to guarantee a gameplay experience that isnt negatively influenced by other players is to instance it. That way, you keep players away from each other, can reduce the friction.

    The modern casual audience seems to take it very poorly if other players can influence their gameplay experience in a way that they dont like.



     

    It was the camp and kill stealing losers that were responsible for the current paradigm shifts, but even back then, most players viewed the phenomena as very unappealing and game ruining.  Large guilds capable of blocking raid content by camping spawn points was a huge issue in the early 2000's and the uproar was epic.  The past audience wasn't any more forgiving of that kind of behavior  than the modern one.  The only difference now is that the nerdtastic developers that supported that kind of crap were either fired or are no longer in control, thank God.

     

    I agree that camping out bosses sucked. For that reason, I do like instanced dungeons, but not the majority or entire game outside of cities. That ruins the mmo aspect. it should at least not have a monthly fee if everything is instanced.

  • TerranahTerranah Stockton, CAPosts: 3,605Member

    Saying Fallen Earth's graphics are as good as half of iphone games is an exageration in the extreme.  It detracts from the point you are trying to make. 

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