Wow, this thread turned into a flame war right quick A buddy of mine got lost in FFXII because he kept skipping cutscenes and had no idea what the FF was going on. We all had a laugh because he sucks at games with no story as well. Bottom line is SOME people care about story some don't. Most "blockbuster" movies have a story so thin that it needs to be masked by action sequences and special effects. But with no story whatsoever, then how will you be immersed in any sort of fantasy? Do you get a "vivid imagination discount" at the box office? There are plenty of ways to enjoy Star Wars without the story. Like the prequels, for example! The story simultaneously sucked and blew. Hell, The Force Unleashed had a decent premise, even if the story's execution was weak. It was still engaging enough that I cared to some degree what the characters' fates were. It also had gameplay, button-mashy though it might have been. If you want no story elements, then don't play games like this, or any standard breed RPG either. Play puzzle and sports games or multiplayer-only FPS's and stop complaining when a dev team emphasizes story. I for one welcome any effort to engross the user in the world presented to him.
EDIT: Anyone else think this thread should be closed? What else is there to discuss about a book we haven't read?
I agree, but if we closed every troll thread then this forum would be 3/4 empty. Plus the trolls would whine that they are being denied their "free speech."
Wow, this thread turned into a flame war right quick A buddy of mine got lost in FFXII because he kept skipping cutscenes and had no idea what the FF was going on. We all had a laugh because he sucks at games with no story as well. Bottom line is SOME people care about story some don't. Most "blockbuster" movies have a story so thin that it needs to be masked by action sequences and special effects. But with no story whatsoever, then how will you be immersed in any sort of fantasy? Do you get a "vivid imagination discount" at the box office? There are plenty of ways to enjoy Star Wars without the story. Like the prequels, for example! The story simultaneously sucked and blew. Hell, The Force Unleashed had a decent premise, even if the story's execution was weak. It was still engaging enough that I cared to some degree what the characters' fates were. It also had gameplay, button-mashy though it might have been. If you want no story elements, then don't play games like this, or any standard breed RPG either. Play puzzle and sports games or multiplayer-only FPS's and stop complaining when a dev team emphasizes story. I for one welcome any effort to engross the user in the world presented to him.
EDIT: Anyone else think this thread should be closed? What else is there to discuss about a book we haven't read?
I agree, but if we closed every troll thread then this forum would be 3/4 empty. Plus the trolls would whine that they are being denied their "free speech."
its hard to say, storyline based games arent entirely a new concept, but implementation, there is also the limitations associated with these things as they inevitably lead to linear gameplay, although if the game really is going to be using a micropayment method then i guess it does make sense, as game progression would rely on storylines, and they could in effect be subject to purchase to unlock conditions. it does have possibilities after all.
if you care about story in a MMO you need to get a life all devs need to do is make good game play and a lot of content
game play is definitely far more important than storyline, without doubt, but a decent storyline can 'enhance' gameplay, though its not really required. a game should be fun to play without requiring you to take part in an episode from eastenders ;D
if you care about story in a MMO you need to get a life all devs need to do is make good game play and a lot of content
game play is definitely far more important than storyline, without doubt, but a decent storyline can 'enhance' gameplay, though its not really required. a game should be fun to play without requiring you to take part in an episode from eastenders ;D
To you perhaps. It is unlikely that you will find what you are looking for in a Bioware game, sorry to say. They tend to be heavily scripted experiences where interactive storytelling is not an afterthought, but a major part of the whole experience.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
if you care about story in a MMO you need to get a life all devs need to do is make good game play and a lot of content
game play is definitely far more important than storyline, without doubt, but a decent storyline can 'enhance' gameplay, though its not really required. a game should be fun to play without requiring you to take part in an episode from eastenders ;D
To you perhaps. It is unlikely that you will find what you are looking for in a Bioware game, sorry to say. They tend to be heavily scripted experiences where interactive storytelling is not an afterthought, but a major part of the whole experience.
i dont know whether im an atypical online gamer or not, im just saying it as i see it. if a game isnt fun for me, then i won't play it, but your right too, i havent played a bioware game for quite a few years, though i do have a few of them, that is, i have some 'black isle' games aka, baldurs gate saga. and i currently play Eve online and WOW, perhaps im not the kind of player Bioware are aiming at
Every single character (e.g. alt) you make, will have different story, so you wont have to do the same crap over and over again if you want to try something new. Something new? All new from classes to quests during the enjoyable leveling with great story.
if you care about story in a MMO you need to get a life all devs need to do is make good game play and a lot of content
game play is definitely far more important than storyline, without doubt, but a decent storyline can 'enhance' gameplay, though its not really required. a game should be fun to play without requiring you to take part in an episode from eastenders ;D
To you perhaps. It is unlikely that you will find what you are looking for in a Bioware game, sorry to say. They tend to be heavily scripted experiences where interactive storytelling is not an afterthought, but a major part of the whole experience.
i dont know whether im an atypical online gamer or not, im just saying it as i see it. if a game isnt fun for me, then i won't play it, but your right too, i havent played a bioware game for quite a few years, though i do have a few of them, that is, i have some 'black isle' games aka, baldurs gate saga. and i currently play Eve online and WOW, perhaps im not the kind of player Bioware are aiming at
Well I currently play EVE as well. And have played WoW on and off since the US closed beta
However, what I do expect Bioware to deliver is neither EVE or WoW, but more towards what KOTOR/Mass Effect/Jade Empire/Neverwinter Nights were. I really do not want it to be anything like the games I already play. With their storytelling skills, Bioware has thus far kept me entertained. And you ask them not to care about the very thing that makes their game studio one of the best RPG studios in the world? You are just being silly.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
Every single character (e.g. alt) you make, will have different story, so you wont have to do the same crap over and over again if you want to try something new. Something new? All new from classes to quests during the enjoyable leveling with great story.
and every character will have its own bio.. only, does anyone ever read those things, story can make things more fun, but without decent gameplay, its just words. its like yesterdays newspaper, once youve read it, you throw it away.
Every single character (e.g. alt) you make, will have different story, so you wont have to do the same crap over and over again if you want to try something new. Something new? All new from classes to quests during the enjoyable leveling with great story.
and every character will have its own bio.. only, does anyone ever read those things, story can make things more fun, but without decent gameplay, its just words. its like yesterdays newspaper, once youve read it, you throw it away.
no one ever reads that crap and it would be a better use of resources to make good classes, gameplay, and content for all levels
You're right alot of people don't care about story, for those people there's world of grindcraft. For people who are gamer's (an audience not really targeted by mainstream mmo's for a while) we have The Old Republic. If you don't like story then why play a star wars mmo, Star Wars is an IP made popular by it's ability to convey a fun exiting story. If you, don't like star wars, are not a gamer, and am looking for a wow like expirence why not just go play warcraft, and keep grinding away for gear to use in heavily instanced gear-based pvp.
Blizzard uses WOW to harvest hours played into bottles so that the dev team can remain immortal
isnt their already a star wars mmo out that doesnt focus on story?
i am aslo confused as to why people would want all dev teams to go in the same direction. "oh screw story a good mmo doesnt need it!"
maybe if bioware pulls it off..... a good themepark mmo from here on out WILL require a good story to be considered a good game. not just its gameplay and graphics.
minus their art style (which is a bit WoW for me.) I am excited to see some big names not trying to make WoW clones.
some variety of what we can play, not just a change in the skin of our characters, is a much needed thing in this genre.
Also you have to remember like it or not, Bioware is the single greatest company when it comes to creating intriging RPG's. They have been for years and so when creating an mmo they played on their strengths: The ability to craft an amazing story. And I hate to say it but story is really what was missing from mmo's. I mean If Warcraft was interesting the level grind wouldn't be a grind it would be an expirence. On the most basic level all games are level grind's what cuts up the monotony is the story and objective driving said grinding.
Blizzard uses WOW to harvest hours played into bottles so that the dev team can remain immortal
From what i've seen, this game needs a good story. I'll be honest, I never do my research on MMO's but it seems that this will have a lot of moral choices and instanced quests/maps/missions which will have a lot of decision making. And yes, that needs to have a damn story. It makes the player immersed and it imrpoves the replayabilty. Sandbox games can have the luxury of not having a great story, all they need is a backdrop and almost all the resources should be directed at other things, while here they are trying to do something different - implementing the unique character depth and story that are typical of single player games into a mmo.
People these days... it's very simple actually: you'll START caring about the story or this MMO isn't for you. Simple as that.
if your life is so boring that you need to care about story in an MMO you need to shut off the computer and go out more
if your life is so exciting you never need to read or watch any other stories... no news, no tv at all, no movies, no magazines, no books, no friends telling you about their day....... then you need to be writing a book about your life.
wtf are you doing on the internet, your life is far to exciting for sucha mundane task.
People these days... it's very simple actually: you'll START caring about the story or this MMO isn't for you. Simple as that.
if your life is so boring that you need to care about story in an MMO you need to shut off the computer and go out more
if your life is so exciting you never need to read or watch any other stories... no news, no tv at all, no movies, no magazines, no books, no friends telling you about their day....... then you need to be writing a book about your life.
wtf are you doing on the internet, your life is far to exciting for sucha mundane task.
pretty much i'm so great i don't need to do any of that
I love storylines, always have done it gives a sense of atmosphere and progression. I also love well balanced classes with huge room for customization... So it seems futile to say they are out of touch when thats clearly not everyones oppinion...
People these days... it's very simple actually: you'll START caring about the story or this MMO isn't for you. Simple as that.
if your life is so boring that you need to care about story in an MMO you need to shut off the computer and go out more
if your life is so exciting you never need to read or watch any other stories... no news, no tv at all, no movies, no magazines, no books, no friends telling you about their day....... then you need to be writing a book about your life.
wtf are you doing on the internet, your life is far to exciting for sucha mundane task.
pretty much i'm so great i don't need to do any of that
Proper punctuation is a casualty of your greatness it seems.
I'd rather have a sandbox mmo where its player driven and NOT a linear storyline that would make a sane person insane with boredom.
Hear hear!
I would add that the addition of story lines, story arcs, things that tie in to different paths of your characters destiny (say you are a bounty hunter and there were like five different story paths to follow) simultaneously with your own creation of a story, then that is fine.
But story can only really exist in a meaningful way if the majority of it is played out under freedom of choice. Great crafting and ressource system is a component of that, as well as world pvp, player housing and player cities - preferably with some forms of city government system. Covert ops could play a part too. Player driven economy is the absolute cornerstone of meaningful story creation.
I am sick and tired of Bioware taking the mmo genre and dumb it down so much and claim that the players don't want freedom of choice in their stories. That all we went is to be guided by hand. I strongly believe many players who are now excited about TOR will rebel the minute they understand just how singular this gaming experience will be after all..
I'd rather have a sandbox mmo where its player driven and NOT a linear storyline that would make a sane person insane with boredom.
Hear hear!
I would add that the addition of story lines, story arcs, things that tie in to different paths of your characters destiny (say you are a bounty hunter and there were like five different story paths to follow) simultaneously with your own creation of a story, then that is fine.
But story can only really exist in a meaningful way if the majority of it is played out under freedom of choice. Great crafting and ressource system is a component of that, as well as world pvp, player housing and player cities - preferably with some forms of city government system. Covert ops could play a part too. Player driven economy is the absolute cornerstone of meaningful story creation.
I am sick and tired of Bioware taking the mmo genre and dumb it down so much and claim that the players don't want freedom of choice in their stories. That all we went is to be guided by hand. I strongly believe many players who are now excited about TOR will rebel the minute they understand just how singular this gaming experience will be after all..
guildwars was pretty good for a few weeks gameplay, and then it got boring. but it was good because at least it was free to play online, after you bought the initial game, i can see this one turning into a game, that you play when you need a break from your main online game, i dont see it as having the potential to be a 'main' game at all, though that will depend on whatever subscription model they use. imo i dont see any longevity in this game at all, despite all the shouting by the 'vocal minority'
I'd rather have a sandbox mmo where its player driven and NOT a linear storyline that would make a sane person insane with boredom.
Hear hear!
I would add that the addition of story lines, story arcs, things that tie in to different paths of your characters destiny (say you are a bounty hunter and there were like five different story paths to follow) simultaneously with your own creation of a story, then that is fine.
But story can only really exist in a meaningful way if the majority of it is played out under freedom of choice. Great crafting and ressource system is a component of that, as well as world pvp, player housing and player cities - preferably with some forms of city government system. Covert ops could play a part too. Player driven economy is the absolute cornerstone of meaningful story creation.
I am sick and tired of Bioware taking the mmo genre and dumb it down so much and claim that the players don't want freedom of choice in their stories. That all we went is to be guided by hand. I strongly believe many players who are now excited about TOR will rebel the minute they understand just how singular this gaming experience will be after all..
None of us has actually played the game, so this speculation goes a bit to far IMO. You have no idea how much "sandbox" time there will be in between story-arc missions. There could be quite enough to get your self-made story "written".
I was intrigued by the part where you mentioned "freedom of choice...great crafting [is a] component of [story]." and "Player driven economy is the absolute cornerstone of meaningful story creation."
If I wrote stories about my crafting experiences in SWG for example you would be bored to death.
"My gas harvesters on Dantooine caught fire because I neglected them while hunting Ewoks on Endor with my Empire character" is a really shitty story. It's also about as thrilling a tale as "Man, the recession was so apparent at the banking terminals after the new game engine was introduced. I remember when SWG's economy was BOOMING... before the dark times... before the NGE."
Save those "stories" for OOC chat with your guild buddies. If I'm playing STAR WARS I want a friggin' engaging story. A good story; well written and presented. I want something to happen in a cutscene that is so damn cool I want to chat about it OOC in the cantina with other players. Stuff like "have you done the mish with the cave in the jungle on Tython? Man, I shouldn't even tell you what comes at the end of that mission... but I want to show you the items you get soooo bad... look, just go do it, it's so fucking cool!" Especially if I'm paying for it. My imagination is free, I don't want to pay them a monthly fee to "use my imagination". I want the product to actually suspend my disbelief for a few hours.
EDIT: or ignore what I've said and watch the new video. I refuse to believe you don't want this aspect in a SW MMO. Did you even play Kotor?
Comments
I agree, but if we closed every troll thread then this forum would be 3/4 empty. Plus the trolls would whine that they are being denied their "free speech."
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
I agree, but if we closed every troll thread then this forum would be 3/4 empty. Plus the trolls would whine that they are being denied their "free speech."
its hard to say, storyline based games arent entirely a new concept, but implementation, there is also the limitations associated with these things as they inevitably lead to linear gameplay, although if the game really is going to be using a micropayment method then i guess it does make sense, as game progression would rely on storylines, and they could in effect be subject to purchase to unlock conditions. it does have possibilities after all.
if you care about story in a MMO you need to get a life
all devs need to do is make good game play and a lot of content
game play is definitely far more important than storyline, without doubt, but a decent storyline can 'enhance' gameplay, though its not really required. a game should be fun to play without requiring you to take part in an episode from eastenders ;D
game play is definitely far more important than storyline, without doubt, but a decent storyline can 'enhance' gameplay, though its not really required. a game should be fun to play without requiring you to take part in an episode from eastenders ;D
To you perhaps. It is unlikely that you will find what you are looking for in a Bioware game, sorry to say. They tend to be heavily scripted experiences where interactive storytelling is not an afterthought, but a major part of the whole experience.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
game play is definitely far more important than storyline, without doubt, but a decent storyline can 'enhance' gameplay, though its not really required. a game should be fun to play without requiring you to take part in an episode from eastenders ;D
To you perhaps. It is unlikely that you will find what you are looking for in a Bioware game, sorry to say. They tend to be heavily scripted experiences where interactive storytelling is not an afterthought, but a major part of the whole experience.
i dont know whether im an atypical online gamer or not, im just saying it as i see it. if a game isnt fun for me, then i won't play it, but your right too, i havent played a bioware game for quite a few years, though i do have a few of them, that is, i have some 'black isle' games aka, baldurs gate saga. and i currently play Eve online and WOW, perhaps im not the kind of player Bioware are aiming at
Good story = more enjoyable gameplay. Why?
Every single character (e.g. alt) you make, will have different story, so you wont have to do the same crap over and over again if you want to try something new. Something new? All new from classes to quests during the enjoyable leveling with great story.
game play is definitely far more important than storyline, without doubt, but a decent storyline can 'enhance' gameplay, though its not really required. a game should be fun to play without requiring you to take part in an episode from eastenders ;D
To you perhaps. It is unlikely that you will find what you are looking for in a Bioware game, sorry to say. They tend to be heavily scripted experiences where interactive storytelling is not an afterthought, but a major part of the whole experience.
i dont know whether im an atypical online gamer or not, im just saying it as i see it. if a game isnt fun for me, then i won't play it, but your right too, i havent played a bioware game for quite a few years, though i do have a few of them, that is, i have some 'black isle' games aka, baldurs gate saga. and i currently play Eve online and WOW, perhaps im not the kind of player Bioware are aiming at
Well I currently play EVE as well. And have played WoW on and off since the US closed beta
However, what I do expect Bioware to deliver is neither EVE or WoW, but more towards what KOTOR/Mass Effect/Jade Empire/Neverwinter Nights were. I really do not want it to be anything like the games I already play. With their storytelling skills, Bioware has thus far kept me entertained. And you ask them not to care about the very thing that makes their game studio one of the best RPG studios in the world? You are just being silly.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
and every character will have its own bio.. only, does anyone ever read those things, story can make things more fun, but without decent gameplay, its just words. its like yesterdays newspaper, once youve read it, you throw it away.
and every character will have its own bio.. only, does anyone ever read those things, story can make things more fun, but without decent gameplay, its just words. its like yesterdays newspaper, once youve read it, you throw it away.
no one ever reads that crap and it would be a better use of resources to make good classes, gameplay, and content for all levels
You're right alot of people don't care about story, for those people there's world of grindcraft. For people who are gamer's (an audience not really targeted by mainstream mmo's for a while) we have The Old Republic. If you don't like story then why play a star wars mmo, Star Wars is an IP made popular by it's ability to convey a fun exiting story. If you, don't like star wars, are not a gamer, and am looking for a wow like expirence why not just go play warcraft, and keep grinding away for gear to use in heavily instanced gear-based pvp.
Blizzard uses WOW to harvest hours played into bottles so that the dev team can remain immortal
im confused:
isnt their already a star wars mmo out that doesnt focus on story?
i am aslo confused as to why people would want all dev teams to go in the same direction. "oh screw story a good mmo doesnt need it!"
maybe if bioware pulls it off..... a good themepark mmo from here on out WILL require a good story to be considered a good game. not just its gameplay and graphics.
minus their art style (which is a bit WoW for me.) I am excited to see some big names not trying to make WoW clones.
some variety of what we can play, not just a change in the skin of our characters, is a much needed thing in this genre.
Also you have to remember like it or not, Bioware is the single greatest company when it comes to creating intriging RPG's. They have been for years and so when creating an mmo they played on their strengths: The ability to craft an amazing story. And I hate to say it but story is really what was missing from mmo's. I mean If Warcraft was interesting the level grind wouldn't be a grind it would be an expirence. On the most basic level all games are level grind's what cuts up the monotony is the story and objective driving said grinding.
Blizzard uses WOW to harvest hours played into bottles so that the dev team can remain immortal
People these days... it's very simple actually: you'll START caring about the story or this MMO isn't for you. Simple as that.
From what i've seen, this game needs a good story. I'll be honest, I never do my research on MMO's but it seems that this will have a lot of moral choices and instanced quests/maps/missions which will have a lot of decision making. And yes, that needs to have a damn story. It makes the player immersed and it imrpoves the replayabilty. Sandbox games can have the luxury of not having a great story, all they need is a backdrop and almost all the resources should be directed at other things, while here they are trying to do something different - implementing the unique character depth and story that are typical of single player games into a mmo.
if your life is so boring that you need to care about story in an MMO you need to shut off the computer and go out more
if your life is so boring that you need to care about story in an MMO you need to shut off the computer and go out more
Yeah, people who read books, play RPGs or watch movies are just sooo lame.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
if your life is so boring that you need to care about story in an MMO you need to shut off the computer and go out more
Who the heck are you? Ann Landers?
p.s., your computer is still on....
if your life is so boring that you need to care about story in an MMO you need to shut off the computer and go out more
if your life is so exciting you never need to read or watch any other stories... no news, no tv at all, no movies, no magazines, no books, no friends telling you about their day....... then you need to be writing a book about your life.
wtf are you doing on the internet, your life is far to exciting for sucha mundane task.
if your life is so boring that you need to care about story in an MMO you need to shut off the computer and go out more
if your life is so exciting you never need to read or watch any other stories... no news, no tv at all, no movies, no magazines, no books, no friends telling you about their day....... then you need to be writing a book about your life.
wtf are you doing on the internet, your life is far to exciting for sucha mundane task.
pretty much i'm so great i don't need to do any of that
I love storylines, always have done it gives a sense of atmosphere and progression. I also love well balanced classes with huge room for customization... So it seems futile to say they are out of touch when thats clearly not everyones oppinion...
Proper punctuation is a casualty of your greatness it seems.
TSDR: DIAF.
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
Hear hear!
I would add that the addition of story lines, story arcs, things that tie in to different paths of your characters destiny (say you are a bounty hunter and there were like five different story paths to follow) simultaneously with your own creation of a story, then that is fine.
But story can only really exist in a meaningful way if the majority of it is played out under freedom of choice. Great crafting and ressource system is a component of that, as well as world pvp, player housing and player cities - preferably with some forms of city government system. Covert ops could play a part too. Player driven economy is the absolute cornerstone of meaningful story creation.
I am sick and tired of Bioware taking the mmo genre and dumb it down so much and claim that the players don't want freedom of choice in their stories. That all we went is to be guided by hand. I strongly believe many players who are now excited about TOR will rebel the minute they understand just how singular this gaming experience will be after all..
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CASUAL CONFESSIONS - Draccan's blog
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Hear hear!
I would add that the addition of story lines, story arcs, things that tie in to different paths of your characters destiny (say you are a bounty hunter and there were like five different story paths to follow) simultaneously with your own creation of a story, then that is fine.
But story can only really exist in a meaningful way if the majority of it is played out under freedom of choice. Great crafting and ressource system is a component of that, as well as world pvp, player housing and player cities - preferably with some forms of city government system. Covert ops could play a part too. Player driven economy is the absolute cornerstone of meaningful story creation.
I am sick and tired of Bioware taking the mmo genre and dumb it down so much and claim that the players don't want freedom of choice in their stories. That all we went is to be guided by hand. I strongly believe many players who are now excited about TOR will rebel the minute they understand just how singular this gaming experience will be after all..
guildwars was pretty good for a few weeks gameplay, and then it got boring. but it was good because at least it was free to play online, after you bought the initial game, i can see this one turning into a game, that you play when you need a break from your main online game, i dont see it as having the potential to be a 'main' game at all, though that will depend on whatever subscription model they use. imo i dont see any longevity in this game at all, despite all the shouting by the 'vocal minority'
None of us has actually played the game, so this speculation goes a bit to far IMO. You have no idea how much "sandbox" time there will be in between story-arc missions. There could be quite enough to get your self-made story "written".
I was intrigued by the part where you mentioned "freedom of choice...great crafting [is a] component of [story]." and "Player driven economy is the absolute cornerstone of meaningful story creation."
If I wrote stories about my crafting experiences in SWG for example you would be bored to death.
"My gas harvesters on Dantooine caught fire because I neglected them while hunting Ewoks on Endor with my Empire character" is a really shitty story. It's also about as thrilling a tale as "Man, the recession was so apparent at the banking terminals after the new game engine was introduced. I remember when SWG's economy was BOOMING... before the dark times... before the NGE."
Save those "stories" for OOC chat with your guild buddies. If I'm playing STAR WARS I want a friggin' engaging story. A good story; well written and presented. I want something to happen in a cutscene that is so damn cool I want to chat about it OOC in the cantina with other players. Stuff like "have you done the mish with the cave in the jungle on Tython? Man, I shouldn't even tell you what comes at the end of that mission... but I want to show you the items you get soooo bad... look, just go do it, it's so fucking cool!" Especially if I'm paying for it. My imagination is free, I don't want to pay them a monthly fee to "use my imagination". I want the product to actually suspend my disbelief for a few hours.
EDIT: or ignore what I've said and watch the new video. I refuse to believe you don't want this aspect in a SW MMO. Did you even play Kotor?