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  • Daffid011Daffid011 Posts: 7,827Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by boojiboy

    Originally posted by Daffid011

    Originally posted by boojiboy
    What I am disputing is the assertion that one has seen it all by the time they hit their 30s.  That's a very misleading thing to tell a new player.  If one likes to raid, then there is a huge amount of content 50+ that will keep a normal player busy indefinitely.




    You keep saying this, but somehow I don't think it is true.  You said it when vanguard has just 1 raid zone.  Now vanguard has a second, but the way they implemented it trivializes the first, so it essentially has one raid dungeon again and I doubt it is going to be enough to occupy people for another 1.5 years let alone indefinitely.

    I don't know many people who would look at one raid dungeon and say "yep, that will keep me occupied indefinitely.".  Even with the absurb grind time put into the recent patch it doesn't make up for content.

    You are the only person I have ever heard talk about all this end game conent and how only hardcore players could possibly do it all.  I mean it honestly took your guild 1.5 years to work your way through 1 dungeon?  Everything you write about your experiences says the content lasted as long as it did because of your guilds skill level and not the amount of content the game offers.   Sorry, but that is just how it reads.  



     

    Heh, nice.  So anyone that hasn't got through all the content is unskilled.  And anyone who has is simply a casual player.  That is BS and you know it.  You are past the point of absurity.  Haven't we been through this before?  Check out the progression thread.  How many have finished APW, all the overland mobs, Bridge of Destiny, Isle of Garzumut and finished all 12 trials?  If it was so damn easy for the casual player just to cruise through all that, then why is it such a small list of guilds?

    Once again, sure, hard-core, no life, no job, no kids, play every day, burn up the content as fast as possible sure.  Average player, no way. 

    The point I was trying to make is that you qualify anyone beyond your guilds skill level to be some hardcore no life player and that you are somehow the baseline average player.  From what you post about your guild I don't think that is the case and I think you are taking a very narrow view of things.  For example there was a thread where you were boasting about how many new healers your guild brings frequently as if to show how many new players there are at max level.  That just tells me how much turnover there is and lack of experienced players really hold a raid back.  *shrug*

     

    I can tell you that no matter what, after 18 months of the said raid zone I would be bored to tears.  It doesn't matter how much grind the devs introduce to slow down my progress through the zone, it would get old long before the 18 month mark even rolled around.  Spin it however you want, cast shadow on those who could do the content in a decent time frame it is what it is.  Not a lot of content for a game that is slowly creeping up on its 3rd year. 

     

    Can you name me any other game that only has 1 raid zone for 2.5 years and everyone thinks that is enough content to keep them occupied for that time, let alone keep them occupied forever as you put it?

     

  • boojiboyboojiboy Hudson, WIPosts: 1,535Member

    All I am saying is that the average player is not going to catch up and finish content.  Secondly, APW is massive, so if a guild started it when it first came out and spend a year in there, that's not at all unusual.  Hell, APW probably defeated more guilds than guilds that defeated it.  Any new guilds or new players joining at some point after launch or as recently as the past couple of months have a ton of stuff to do when they get to 50 and above.

    That said, if someone is a soloer, they can get to 55 but they are not going to find a lot of new stuff to solo or quest.  If someone is just a group-type person, then they've got Shores of Darkness and PotA, Bridge of Destiny and not a whole lot more.  They definitely need more group type content for 50+ and hopefully some of these dungeon revamps fit the bill once they finish PotA-B raid.  And I, as much as anyone, want another APW type of raid zone more than any other planned content.

  • XeonsoldierXeonsoldier Atlanta, GAPosts: 190Member
    Originally posted by boojiboy

    Originally posted by Daffid011

    Originally posted by boojiboy
    What I am disputing is the assertion that one has seen it all by the time they hit their 30s.  That's a very misleading thing to tell a new player.  If one likes to raid, then there is a huge amount of content 50+ that will keep a normal player busy indefinitely.




    You keep saying this, but somehow I don't think it is true.  You said it when vanguard has just 1 raid zone.  Now vanguard has a second, but the way they implemented it trivializes the first, so it essentially has one raid dungeon again and I doubt it is going to be enough to occupy people for another 1.5 years let alone indefinitely.

    I don't know many people who would look at one raid dungeon and say "yep, that will keep me occupied indefinitely.".  Even with the absurb grind time put into the recent patch it doesn't make up for content.

    You are the only person I have ever heard talk about all this end game conent and how only hardcore players could possibly do it all.  I mean it honestly took your guild 1.5 years to work your way through 1 dungeon?  Everything you write about your experiences says the content lasted as long as it did because of your guilds skill level and not the amount of content the game offers.   Sorry, but that is just how it reads.  



     

    Heh, nice.  So anyone that hasn't got through all the content is unskilled.  And anyone who has is simply a casual player.  That is BS and you know it.  You are past the point of absurity.  Haven't we been through this before?  Check out the progression thread.  How many have finished APW, all the overland mobs, Bridge of Destiny, Isle of Garzumut and finished all 12 trials?  If it was so damn easy for the casual player just to cruise through all that, then why is it such a small list of guilds?

    Once again, sure, hard-core, no life, no job, no kids, play every day, burn up the content as fast as possible sure.  Average player, no way. 



     

    So I'm a hard-core, no life, no job, no kids person? Lol how about a more efficient player who likes to get things done?I have a life, job, female, but no kids and go to school. Explain my position please sir since I obviously couldn't gotten through so much content.

  • boojiboyboojiboy Hudson, WIPosts: 1,535Member
    Originally posted by Cyborg99


    OP ignore the haters. It sounds like your having fun and thats all that matters.



     

    /sigh.  Very true.  It's amazing how any positive post with someone stating that they enjoy the game gets met with the same few haters.  Then I get sucked into the argument too!  :)

  • XeonsoldierXeonsoldier Atlanta, GAPosts: 190Member
    Originally posted by boojiboy

    Originally posted by Cyborg99


    OP ignore the haters. It sounds like your having fun and thats all that matters.



     

    /sigh.  Very true.  It's amazing how any positive post with someone stating that they enjoy the game gets met with the same few haters.  Then I get sucked into the argument too!  :)



     

    If anyone enjoys the game then great. But please don't spread lies and rumors. That's what gets me into these arguements.

  • shakermaker0shakermaker0 SheffieldPosts: 194Member

    Vanguard is a great game, its a shame that trolls seems to monitorr any posts about it. If anyone wants an independent and honest opinion/review of Vanguard go to http://thatmmoguy.blogspot.com

  • TruethTrueth Schofield Barracks, HIPosts: 287Member

    WTF?? You post a link to your own blog and say that YOUR opinion is the only true and honest opinion -- And -- anyone who has a negative opinion of Vanguard is troll?

    Grow-up, little man.

    Vanguard is on the brink of extinction. It's not worth the effort to DL and install and certainly not woth $14.99 per month.

  • shakermaker0shakermaker0 SheffieldPosts: 194Member

    I said independent, not true, If you cared to read my blog you would find I praised but criticised the game, you know, sort of like a review. Ironically you proved my original comment that trolls monitor these forums, as soon as I say its a great game someeone with no interest in Vanguard tells me I am an idiot and that Vanguard in fact sucks

    Im a little man, your a twat

  • XeonsoldierXeonsoldier Atlanta, GAPosts: 190Member
    Originally posted by shakermaker0


    Vanguard is a great game, its a shame that trolls seems to monitorr any posts about it. If anyone wants an independent and honest opinion/review of Vanguard go to http://thatmmoguy.blogspot.com



     

    Shame, VG's biggest supporters are considered as trolls now? How about real honest players with opinions. Sounds like a much better word.

  • TruethTrueth Schofield Barracks, HIPosts: 287Member

    Go troll your own blog, or something. If I wanted you to following me around like some little mandy-boy I'd give my address.

  • boojiboyboojiboy Hudson, WIPosts: 1,535Member
    Originally posted by Xeonsoldier

    Originally posted by shakermaker0


    Vanguard is a great game, its a shame that trolls seems to monitorr any posts about it. If anyone wants an independent and honest opinion/review of Vanguard go to http://thatmmoguy.blogspot.com



     

    Shame, VG's biggest supporters are considered as trolls now? How about real honest players with opinions. Sounds like a much better word.



     

    People like Trueth are trolls.  You Xeon are not.  We simply disagree on some points.  You've played hard-core and I have not which has led to different perceptions of Vanguard.

     

  • billynomatesbillynomates HamsteadPosts: 163Member
    Originally posted by CristianCeo


      Wich game give you this HUUUUUUGE freedom? Name one just one, i know u can't because the is none!
      In the images u can see i met a really great ship crafter wich took me in a spin with some of her boats, wich is absolutely great, you get such a nice and relaxing feeling and you can sail wherever you want in the game!!
       The boats in the images belong to her but the red one is mine wich i bought from the auction house!
        AND yes that HUGE you can sail it!!
      
    PS here is a small video with sailing http://www.xfire.com/video/f1626/

    Not to be a pain but i have to ask.

     

    If you only started VG a week ago,how did you manage to buy the boat?

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Posts: 7,827Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by boojiboy

    Originally posted by Xeonsoldier

    Originally posted by shakermaker0


    Vanguard is a great game, its a shame that trolls seems to monitorr any posts about it. If anyone wants an independent and honest opinion/review of Vanguard go to http://thatmmoguy.blogspot.com



     

    Shame, VG's biggest supporters are considered as trolls now? How about real honest players with opinions. Sounds like a much better word.



     

    People like Trueth are trolls.  You Xeon are not.  We simply disagree on some points.  You've played hard-core and I have not which has led to different perceptions of Vanguard.

     

     

    This is exactly what I am talking about.  You instantly label anyone that goes past your own guilds capavbilities as some sort of hardcore player.  That is your flaw, but I can't say why without you getting offended.  Lets just say that your guild should not be used as a baseline of how things work and anyone beyond your capabilities is not hardcord. 

     

     

  • StrixMaximaStrixMaxima SPosts: 884Member

    I truly hope VG overcomes its bad rep, because right now it's the PvE king of the hill. Also, one of the best crafting systems in any MMO.

    Come to Seradon, where the grouping never stops.

  • boojiboyboojiboy Hudson, WIPosts: 1,535Member
    Originally posted by Daffid011

    Originally posted by boojiboy

    Originally posted by Xeonsoldier

    Originally posted by shakermaker0


    Vanguard is a great game, its a shame that trolls seems to monitorr any posts about it. If anyone wants an independent and honest opinion/review of Vanguard go to http://thatmmoguy.blogspot.com



     

    Shame, VG's biggest supporters are considered as trolls now? How about real honest players with opinions. Sounds like a much better word.



     

    People like Trueth are trolls.  You Xeon are not.  We simply disagree on some points.  You've played hard-core and I have not which has led to different perceptions of Vanguard.

     

     

    This is exactly what I am talking about.  You instantly label anyone that goes past your own guilds capavbilities as some sort of hardcore player.  That is your flaw, but I can't say why without you getting offended.  Lets just say that your guild should not be used as a baseline of how things work and anyone beyond your capabilities is not hardcord. 

     

     



     

    It's not about skill or capabilities and the back-handed insult is not appreciated.

    It's simply about playtime.  Let me use one example to illustrate what should be a very simple point.  As a guild our people play 10 to 20 hours a week max we don't get to pound away at content week after week and hours on end.  So when we got to Kota, we scheduled her once every other weekend or so and for 2 attempts each try.  It took us a grand total of 9 tries to kill her, but that equated to about 6-7 weeks.  That is indicative of limited play times, good planning, skill and coordination.  I know for a fact that the vast majority of other guilds that have tried or defeated her took many, many more attempts.  Some of them getting 10-15 attemps in per week and some even spending full days week after week.  So if you want to talk about skill, it's not about how quickly you get through stuff, it's about how many attempts until you succeed.

    It's elitist to think that every capable guild and skilled player should be expected to get through all the content as fast as it's put out.  There are what, 3-4 hard-core guilds on each server.... beyond that the rest are in a similar situation as hours with respect to philosophy and playtimes.

    My point being, playing average play times, even since launch, there is plenty yet to do in this game.  If someone plays 40 plus hours a week, well then yes, they'll probably exhaust content faster than it can be developed.... but someone who can play 40 hours a week or more is going to exhaust content in ANY game, especially a WoW, LotRO, AoC or WAR type game.

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Posts: 7,827Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by boojiboy


     
    It's not about skill or capabilities and the back-handed insult is not appreciated.
    It's simply about playtime.  Let me use one example to illustrate what should be a very simple point.  As a guild our people play 10 to 20 hours a week max we don't get to pound away at content week after week and hours on end.  So when we got to Kota, we scheduled her once every other weekend or so and for 2 attempts each try.  It took us a grand total of 9 tries to kill her, but that equated to about 6-7 weeks.  That is indicative of limited play times, good planning, skill and coordination.  I know for a fact that the vast majority of other guilds that have tried or defeated her took many, many more attempts.  Some of them getting 10-15 attemps in per week and some even spending full days week after week.  So if you want to talk about skill, it's not about how quickly you get through stuff, it's about how many attempts until you succeed.
    It's elitist to think that every capable guild and skilled player should be expected to get through all the content as fast as it's put out.  There are what, 3-4 hard-core guilds on each server.... beyond that the rest are in a similar situation as hours with respect to philosophy and playtimes.
    My point being, playing average play times, even since launch, there is plenty yet to do in this game.  If someone plays 40 plus hours a week, well then yes, they'll probably exhaust content faster than it can be developed.... but someone who can play 40 hours a week or more is going to exhaust content in ANY game, especially a WoW, LotRO, AoC or WAR type game.

    6-7 weeks is not average for what normal guilds spend on learning one boss mob. Your guild averaged one new kill per month. 

    There is more to what I say about a guild than skill level, but thats what you hear.  There is a very small pool of players to draw from at higher levels in vanguard.  It is a game of limited resources and that has an effect.  Is there really a super hardcore a team guild in the game?  Spending tons of time doesn't make someone hardcore.   Not to mention the turn over rate of players in the game.  Even you mentioned previously how many new healers you bring on raids each week and things like that will slow down progression.  Combine that with other things and your limited play times and you trying to paint anyone above your progression as being hardcore when the opposite is more likely the truth. 

     

    I'm not calling your guild scrubs and losers, but you are not exactly being clear about how things are either.  One raid dungeon is not sufficient content for an 18 month period.  It may be fine if you only raid a few hours a week, but that puts you into a super casual range.  Saying it is plenty of content for anyone except super hardcore extreme players is just a bit misleading don't you think?  Especially when your guild only raids a few hours a week or try something every other week?

     

     

  • boojiboyboojiboy Hudson, WIPosts: 1,535Member

    I guess it comes down to what we think the average player plays in a week.  I've played since launch and my perception is that the large majority of players are in guilds like mine and put in about 15-20 hours a week.  Then there is the more hard-core players and guilds that put in many more hours a week, but I'd say there are 4 or 5 of those guilds total.  Then there is a percentage of super-casual folks that maybe play less than 5 hours a week, but have also been around forever.

    I could be wrong, but I don't think playing 15-20 hours a week is considered super casual.  It's more than I should be playing, that's for sure.  I've got to problem with those that play 40-60 hours a week, I just don't think there are VG that play at that level.  And the point remains, for those that do, they will chew through content and be waiting for more in any game.  However, I've also said, I'll be the first person to raise my hand and want more variety at 51+ in Vanguard.  I've got more than enough to do, but I would LOVE to see another APW type raid dungeon as an option.

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Posts: 7,827Member Uncommon

    My point was not how many hours a week you play, but how often you raid.  When you raid a boss every other week, you are pretty far down the casual list.  That however doesn't make anyone that progresses faster than your casual guild, hardcore no life players as you keep painting them out to be as if you are the stick which all players need to be measured by.

    Honest, I have played on servers with game populations similar to vanguard.  I am well aware of the difficulties it presents, the pool of players it does not have to draw from and how that affects the gameplay.  How everything slows down as population declines.  It is like living in the lazy countryside where everyone is friends.  It is a very enjoyable experience and I hope to find it in another game someday, but that also throws the game out of norm so to speak. 

    If vanguard were to have a booming population it would suffer notably from lack of content regardless of your personal views of what is and isn't hardcore.  Except for your claims, I can't think of any mmo where players would think 1 raid dungeon is to much content for 18 months of play.  That doesn't mean it can't be fun or enough if you pace yourself, but that isn't what you are saying.

  • XeonsoldierXeonsoldier Atlanta, GAPosts: 190Member

    Well the guild I come from is Trinity on  the seradon server for quite some time with BoW breathing on us at every mob spawn. Our guild consisted of mainly adults with families and jobs, but who had a good bit of control on play time. We raided max 5 days a week for 3 weeks when APW came out, but since then we never came close to that kind of raiding because it was never supported. We let the general public know that the "hardcore" raiding mentality was never supported with what VG had to offer. So instead our raiding schedule was cut to a Mon-Wed 7-11 type schedule and it's been that way for over a year but even with that, it allowed us to stay one step ahead of the devs in content still. So we basically were confused on what the devs really intended because even at the slow pace of content and our much more casual approach to raiding, it still was not enough. We spoke with the other end game guilds on halgar and xeth and they had the exact response to it. We just don't know what audience they are catering to but from what it seems (and this is not an insult but just the truth), but they want to cater the raid content to less experienced raiders who are much more prone to mistake and have lesser play time to contibute. Because it seems as if their raid content schedule is only working with those who does just that. The players who are more efficient in playtime and skill get punished as even with alot more restricted playtime, still come out ahead.

  • boojiboyboojiboy Hudson, WIPosts: 1,535Member

    :)  I've got a lot of respect for Trinity.  It was one of your members that gave us the very nice compliment on killing Kotasoth with so few tries... also warned us how rare the dang eyes would be /sigh.

    We just lost one of our best and nicest guildies to you guys.  No hard feelings on either side, but he got 55 in just two weeks and plays about 16 hours a day.  He just couldn't handle our schedule where very few people are online during the day and only log on for scheduled events.

    Call it Hardcore or not, he just needed a guild that played much more aggressively than we did.  I can certainly see a top end guild like Trinity exhausting content before more is release.  Heck, I rarely see a Trinity member that isn't already 55.  Our guild has one 55, one 54, and the rest 53 and below.  So we've got much to do yet.

    Also, tell Reapers et. al. thanks for clearing out the Lava Draklings around Krassin.  Made our invuln run a lot easier for the Blessing of the Chosen quest!

     

    As for as content go, our guild is having a lot of fun with trials.  Maybe 6-7 our of the first 12 are done.  We are also pretty egalatarian so we'll end up pushing 60 or so guidlies through it, which is part of why we go through content slower... we try to get everyone through everything.  If given the choice between another APW-style raid dungeon and PotA I'd pick another APW raid dungeon.  But I think they've invested so much design work and time into PotA that they'll finish the raid section and AAs before they do anything else.  Except for Salamander Caves which will be a nice change of pace for 50+ group content.

  • boojiboyboojiboy Hudson, WIPosts: 1,535Member
    Originally posted by billynomates

    Originally posted by CristianCeo


      Wich game give you this HUUUUUUGE freedom? Name one just one, i know u can't because the is none!
      In the images u can see i met a really great ship crafter wich took me in a spin with some of her boats, wich is absolutely great, you get such a nice and relaxing feeling and you can sail wherever you want in the game!!
       The boats in the images belong to her but the red one is mine wich i bought from the auction house!
        AND yes that HUGE you can sail it!!
      
    PS here is a small video with sailing http://www.xfire.com/video/f1626/

    Not to be a pain but i have to ask.

     

    If you only started VG a week ago,how did you manage to buy the boat?



     

    I don't have a Galleon, my picture is my fishing buddy's Galleon.  You can buy them on the broker... not sure what the going price is, but they've come down a lot as there are more and more crafters that can make them.  Perhaps 1 or 2pp?  You can build them if you are the right crafting type.... carpenter?  You could commission a crafter to buy build them if you supply all the materials... I think they take a ton of Dusky Timber which is Tier 5 harvesting as well as a boat-load of other materials (no pun intended).  You can also fall into a guilld perhaps where the high end crafters give them away.  Finally, if you are really lucky, you could win one during a guild-hosted server event.

  • NizurNizur Austin, TXPosts: 1,417Member


    Originally posted by boojiboy
    Originally posted by billynomates
    Originally posted by CristianCeo   Wich game give you this HUUUUUUGE freedom? Name one just one, i know u can't because the is none!
      In the images u can see i met a really great ship crafter wich took me in a spin with some of her boats, wich is absolutely great, you get such a nice and relaxing feeling and you can sail wherever you want in the game!!
       The boats in the images belong to her but the red one is mine wich i bought from the auction house!
        AND yes that HUGE you can sail it!!
      
    PS here is a small video with sailing http://www.xfire.com/video/f1626/
    Not to be a pain but i have to ask.
     
    If you only started VG a week ago,how did you manage to buy the boat?

    I don't have a Galleon, my picture is my fishing buddy's Galleon.  You can buy them on the broker... not sure what the going price is, but they've come down a lot as there are more and more crafters that can make them.  Perhaps 1 or 2pp?  You can build them if you are the right crafting type.... carpenter?  You could commission a crafter to buy build them if you supply all the materials... I think they take a ton of Dusky Timber which is Tier 5 harvesting as well as a boat-load of other materials (no pun intended).  You can also fall into a guilld perhaps where the high end crafters give them away.  Finally, if you are really lucky, you could win one during a guild-hosted server event.


    The guild I was with was giving away sloops weekly and had already given away two galleons in a couple contests. Galleons take a lot of mats to make. Just farming the wood needed was a large time-consuming task.

    I got to ride on a guild-mate's galleon. It was fun "sailing the high seas" and seeing new places.

    Current: None
    Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR
    Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu
    Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN

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