It's a Bioware game, so I do give a crap about the story espically as it's part of the Star Wars timeline. I read the UK's PCgamer artical about the game and it looks like it's really shaping up to be a great game as I would love to see a single player quality of campaign and voice acting combined with a MMORPG world.
Now, I hate to hype games as it just leads to disappointment but I'm really looking forward to this.
Originally posted by Ghostworks I find it hilarious when people say "reading is boring" lol.Anywho, you're in luck because the entire game is voice acted.
I'd like to know how the "reading is boring" crowd manages to post on a forum.
It blows my mind how out of touch developers are with the MMO base. With literally the biggest IP in the world, their focus is NOT what gamers have hated about mmos for years. No no, they will contiune to shovel the bullshit, but will now have STORY! ... You would think that seeing the failings of supposed "blockbuster" MMOs like Aoc and WAR would send a message, but no. Alas we continue to be insulted by developers who ignore the -KEY- issues people have with the genre, and instead focus on something utterly worthless. Newsflash jackasses, your customers arn't upset with lack of story, they are upset with the cookie cutter MMO template that money grubing bandwagoners like you continue to reiterate and expect to sell.
While I agree with your dissatisfaction about the standardized perspective of creating 'cookie-cutter' MMOs these days, and the failings, on one level or another, of virtually every MMO since SWG was dismembered in Dec. 2005, Tirades have never helped our cause.
If you want to invoke true change, flood the dev with real mail, letters of complaint and demands of change, en masse. Griefing on forums rarely gets 'heard' by them, let alone instilling any sense of caring - about your issue - by the powers that be.
At this point, I would logically deduce that they 1) either do not wish to release further info about the game (info about things 'other' than story), possibly because of playability/testing factors. Or 2) They have not even made it far enough in the development stages to offer more info yet.
All we can do is wait and see. If it sucks, it sucks. Nothing we can do to change that. I have 6 MMOs sitting on a shelf collecting dust right now. All of which were touted to be 'better' with 'more story' and 'things to do'. It was a marketing scam. Most of them have been.
However, if this game is even an inkling better than what SWG is now, I will be happy.
And perhaps someday, before we all die of old age, Devs will realize that the systems they had set up in the past, for games like SWG and the first EQ, were actually better and just needed to be expanded upon.
Perhaps we need to start a movement to stop the innundation of 'console' gaming into our precious MMO world.
Has anybody seen the dozens of "gameplay" videos Bioware has released for their upcomming single-player RPG Dragon Age? The whole game appears to be nothing but endless cutscenes. And all the developers ever talk about is story this and story that. As near as I can tell, they're developing an animated version of those old "Choose Your Own Adventure" books.
Apparently that whole company has now been taken over by unpublishable novelists. To them, all the programming and gameplay are just there to provide a context for their backstory - instead of the other way around.
I guess that's what they mean when they say SWTOR is "getting rid of the leveling grind." Who cares about attaining new powers and skills, and the constant tactical changes to gameplay they provide?
All MMORPG players REALLY want is a grind to get to the next cutscene, right?
Originally posted by kopema Has anybody seen the dozens of "gameplay" videos Bioware has released for their upcomming single-player RPG Dragon Age? The whole game appears to be nothing but endless cutscenes. And all the developers ever talk about is story this and story that. As near as I can tell, they're developing an animated version of those old "Choose Your Own Adventure" books. Apparently that whole company has now been taken over by unpublishable novelists. To them, all the programming and gameplay are just there to provide a context for their backstory - instead of the other way around. I guess that's what they mean when they say SWTOR is "getting rid of the leveling grind." Who cares about attaining new powers and skills, and the constant tactical changes to gameplay they provide? All MMORPG players REALLY want is a grind to get to the next cutscene, right? ...Right?
Go play Mass Effect before yapping off.
You armchair quarterbacks are hilarious. When will they learn that they're at their best when they're not thinking aloud.
Go play Mass Effect before yapping off. You armchair quarterbacks are hilarious. When will they learn that they're at their best when they're not thinking aloud.
Been there, didn't do that. The Steam version was too full of bugs. (Oh, but don't worry, the authors promised to write an engrossing patch story back in January!)
And, btw, "Einstein," time is linear and your thought processes clearly are not. If as you claim, you only have the two options available to you, next time try thinking INSTEAD of talking.
in a mmorpg no one need a story... the players should create the story, you just need fantasy. the problem is, the new gaming generation dosn't have much fantasy lol. a few month ago, the kiddys discovered the word "sandbox", now they want their "world of warcraft"- pre-build world back.
i realy don't need a storyline in a mmorpg. i always skip the dialogs and i only read the mission-goals.
in a mmorpg no one need a story... the players should create the story, you just need fantasy. the problem is, the new gaming generation dosn't have much fantasy lol. a few month ago, the kiddys discovered the word "sandbox", now they want their "world of warcraft"- pre-build world back. i realy don't need a storyline in a mmorpg. i always skip the dialogs and i only read the mission-goals.
*wonders why RPG is in MMORPG*
If you really skip the dialogs and go straight for the quest goals, I'd suggest you'd take a better look at the following games:
Ether Saga online
Jade Dynasty
For both games you don't have to do a thing, skip the dialogs, go to the quest-log, double click on the quest and it even walks you there!
It blows my mind how out of touch developers are with the MMO base. With literally the biggest IP in the world, their focus is NOT what gamers have hated about mmos for years. No no, they will contiune to shovel the bullshit, but will now have STORY! Are you kidding me? The level of absurdity is making my brain swell. People hate classes, they hate levels, they hate watered-down gameplay and grind. Does BioWare plan on address these -universal- complaints? Fuck no, to them the problem with MMOs is story? My mind is utterly blown. From forum to forum across the internet, followers are asking the same basic questions. Whats pvp like? Whats pve like? How are the classes? What is the item system like? Yet over and over, every single dev blog and release is about story. I just can't wrap my head around the unsurpassable amount of ignorance by the dev teams. You would think that seeing the failings of supposed "blockbuster" MMOs like Aoc and WAR would send a message, but no. Alas we continue to be insulted by developers who ignore the -KEY- issues people have with the genre, and instead focus on something utterly worthless. Newsflash jackasses, your customers arn't upset with lack of story, they are upset with the cookie cutter MMO template that money grubing bandwagoners like you continue to reiterate and expect to sell.
I agree with you. They are taking the theme park MMO and adding a mother and father figure to lead you around. Hand holding taken to the next level, or galaxy. I had high hopes for this game. They hired Ashen Temper from Shadowbane, and now Mythic is helping (I like Mythic, I blame EA for War's failure), but finding out its heavly driven by story is the ultimate turnoff.
The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
Story is very important and the more immersive in-depth the better. But, what is truly needed is something new. What is needed is player characters ability to effect the story in a way to change the non-player characters perception and involvement in the story of said player characters. I’ll explain what I mean in a min.
So far, mmo’s have been just an elaborate form of Duck Hunt, just a bunch of flat mobs to knock over and once you got them all move onto the next scene. Even though you can put allot of story around that flat board mob with a bulls eye on its head, in the end you are just to knock it over and get some reward and move on.
Now getting back to what I was talking about earlier. The mobs or non player characters need to REACT in story to your actions. For example; you have a mission to kill some bees to get the honey they are harvesting, along the way you find out there is a Queen bee and to take down this problem permanently you need to take her out. So you take her out, win the day the nest is gone but a few bees escape. These bees take information on those involved to other bee nests and depending on the Queen you killed alliances and status, there are measures taken against you.
Now up to this point the only the only thing we’ve seen is a faction hit which to this day has not really impacted story at all. So, what if the bees generated a mission to take down a player character or a player characters npc base of friends, consultants even quest givers? What if these generated a quest line where diametrically opposed player characters could assist the bees in revenge against player characters and spanning off new story arcs?
I believe this is the next level and mmos need to go there.
I am open to this new concept of Bioware's, but will as always be careful about getting excited. As is, I reserve judgement until I get my hands on a final copy.
That's the problem, I don't see the "new" part. Book technology has been around for several years now. Computer animation adds a little bit. But it's safe to say that SWTOR won't be anywhere near as well-animated as Clone Wars, and that sucked.
I care about story, it's just that I don't care about the fact that they're spending so much time on story. I think that endgame, combat, how fun the game is...then again, story is a very important part in an MMO otherwise, that is going to boring.
Originally posted by kopema Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero
Go play Mass Effect before yapping off. You armchair quarterbacks are hilarious. When will they learn that they're at their best when they're not thinking aloud.
Been there, didn't do that. The Steam version was too full of bugs. (Oh, but don't worry, the authors promised to write an engrossing patch story back in January!) And, btw, "Einstein," time is linear and your thought processes clearly are not. If as you claim, you only have the two options available to you, next time try thinking INSTEAD of talking.
Translation: You have a crappy PC and couldn't run Mass Effect. Game ran just fine on mine and most other people's systems.
And no "trying" doesn't count. As the green man said, Do or Do not. And until you DO keep your mouth shut.
Wow, this thread turned into a flame war right quick
A buddy of mine got lost in FFXII because he kept skipping cutscenes and had no idea what the FF was going on. We all had a laugh because he sucks at games with no story as well.
Bottom line is SOME people care about story some don't. Most "blockbuster" movies have a story so thin that it needs to be masked by action sequences and special effects. But with no story whatsoever, then how will you be immersed in any sort of fantasy? Do you get a "vivid imagination discount" at the box office?
There are plenty of ways to enjoy Star Wars without the story. Like the prequels, for example! The story simultaneously sucked and blew. Hell, The Force Unleashed had a decent premise, even if the story's execution was weak. It was still engaging enough that I cared to some degree what the characters' fates were. It also had gameplay, button-mashy though it might have been.
If you want no story elements, then don't play games like this, or any standard breed RPG either. Play puzzle and sports games or multiplayer-only FPS's and stop complaining when a dev team emphasizes story. I for one welcome any effort to engross the user in the world presented to him.
EDIT: Anyone else think this thread should be closed? What else is there to discuss about a book we haven't read?
I can see the OP's point here. I am drawn to a player driven world. Giving players control of almost every aspect (i.e economy, city conrol blah blah) is something that should in my opionon set MMOs apart from co-op RPGs. Story is secondary only because it should, in theory, be subject to what the masses are doing in the world.
/agreed
I'm not to keen on a pre-written story myself. I'd rather make my own.
Nothing against some storytelling, but hundreds of hours of story won't substitute playability, crafting, player driven economy, pvp etc.
I can see the OP's point here. I am drawn to a player driven world. Giving players control of almost every aspect (i.e economy, city conrol blah blah) is something that should in my opionon set MMOs apart from co-op RPGs. Story is secondary only because it should, in theory, be subject to what the masses are doing in the world.
/agreed
I'm not to keen on a pre-written story myself. I'd rather make my own.
Nothing against some storytelling, but hundreds of hours of story won't substitute playability, crafting, player driven economy, pvp etc.
So how does one make there own story in a game? Unless they give you tools to make quests I don't see that possible. Like for example Im a character that is playing a farmer and I built my farm in what used to be a peaceful area. But things have changed in game and suddenly wolves have started appearing in my area. I can't fend them off my self so I need to hire someone to kill them. So I set something up in the town bulletin board someone sees and comes to see me. They take the "quest" and complete it, I give them money now I can go back to my business, they search for some others in need of help.
For a game to have real player driven story the world has to change in real time, weather has to effect things, AI has to be smart and migrate,reproduce and get over populated or get underpopulated. Players have to need things and offer services so you have to be only one class or job, you cant be a monster hunter and a crafter at the same time but you can change jobs whenever.
There are a lot of things that need to happen for a game to be completely player ran. I sure as hell wouldn't want to play a farmer, I would want to be an adventurer roaming around the world sleeping where I can and killing things. But if people want to do that then thats cool with me, the game needs people that want to do that sort of thing.
Don't get me wrong, I would love to see a game like this but there are so many variables that come in to factor it would make it really hard to make. I guess games like Entropia and 2nd life are close to a player driven story because basicly just like living in the real world. But we have no games like this in the Fantasy settings, at least I haven't heard of any.
I can see the OP's point here. I am drawn to a player driven world. Giving players control of almost every aspect (i.e economy, city conrol blah blah) is something that should in my opionon set MMOs apart from co-op RPGs. Story is secondary only because it should, in theory, be subject to what the masses are doing in the world.
/agreed
I'm not to keen on a pre-written story myself. I'd rather make my own.
Nothing against some storytelling, but hundreds of hours of story won't substitute playability, crafting, player driven economy, pvp etc.
So how does one make there own story in a game? Unless they give you tools to make quests I don't see that possible. Like for example Im a character that is playing a farmer and I built my farm in what used to be a peaceful area. But things have changed in game and suddenly wolves have started appearing in my area. I can't fend them off my self so I need to hire someone to kill them. So I set something up in the town bulletin board someone sees and comes to see me. They take the "quest" and complete it, I give them money now I can go back to my business, they search for some others in need of help.
For a game to have real player driven story the world has to change in real time, weather has to effect things, AI has to be smart and migrate,reproduce and get over populated or get underpopulated. Players have to need things and offer services so you have to be only one class or job, you cant be a monster hunter and a crafter at the same time but you can change jobs whenever.
There are a lot of things that need to happen for a game to be completely player ran. I sure as hell wouldn't want to play a farmer, I would want to be an adventurer roaming around the world sleeping where I can and killing things. But if people want to do that then thats cool with me, the game needs people that want to do that sort of thing.
Don't get me wrong, I would love to see a game like this but there are so many variables that come in to factor it would make it really hard to make. I guess games like Entropia and 2nd life are close to a player driven story because basicly just like living in the real world. But we have no games like this in the Fantasy settings, at least I haven't heard of any.
Generally, when people talk about the players making their own story, it is a game where the players have some affect over the world, usually in the form of territory control or something else that impacts the players.
There are many "player stories" in EVE, because the game is all about the Corporations, and what sector of space they control, which Corporations took out each other, which Corps were betrayed by their members, those that rose to power then lost evertying, etc.
It's not really about player made quests, but the story of the world becomes like World History. You can read about the wars between the Romans and the Greeks, or the power struggles in Europe before and after the Dark Ages, etc., etc.
PLayers tend to care much more about how they changed the game world, then some lore that's just a bunch of words that doesn't mean anything or have any real affect on game play.
Why do you need to know the lore in WoW? You don't. In EVE you need to know the history of the various Corporatoins so you know who's allied with whom, who is deadly enemies with whom, and so on. It's actually usefull information.
However, the pre written story in a game can vary in quality. It just so happens that the story in KOTOR is very, very good, unlike most MMORPG lore and quests which are just crap.
Also, the "stories" in TOR will have slightly diifferent outcomes depending on your choices. That helps make it a bit more engaging, or at least I hope it will be.
i equate story to questing and in this case, forced questing.
I dont want to be forced into a KOTOR style series of quests....
complete quest A to access quest B.
complete quest B to access quest C.
complete quest C and leave planet.
next planet
complete quest A to access quest B
rinse and repeat
sure its cool to have different dialog based on different responses. And that is supposed to make the game fun to replay according to Bioware.
But since when is an MMO about replayability ? Because WoW got us used to re-rolling a toon once the theme park content ride ended, its now considered content to play another toon ? And I should desire this more simply because I can choose option B or C in quest dialog ???
When did this idea that single rpg gameplay, ie replaying the game once you beat it filter into MMO's ? And whats with the focus on questing / story ?
I like quests but I want them hidden, hard to find, no tor-wiki walkthrough postings, and the option to not be forced to do them.
story/quests should be something like icing on the cake or ice cream added to a hot slice of apple pie. But recently its the entire focus and thats where i have issues.
this is the inherent flaw with level based, class systems via theme park content. the danger is running out of content so lets make the game fun to replay.
i'd rather have sandbox freedom, thats the ultimate in replayable content. I was never bored in star wars galaxies but ive cancelled wow6 times after ive done all the rides
Last time I played a sandbox game there were no quests and it was repeatative and boring. The few 'quests' were go kill some boars or bears or whatever was bothering the npc so that you could gain a few points in X skill.
BTW in TOR Quest A doesn't lead to Quest B it leads to Options that could Take you to B1 B2 or B3 etc. That doesn't even include all the side quests if you go and help someone else with their story or when your stories might intermingle which properly encourages players to play together instead of all the negative reasons to group like group by force or die in other games.
Star Wars was always about the story and the choices the characters made and where it ultimately lead them in the end. TOR's doing STar Wars right by bringing back story and hopefully the feeling of being a hero or villian depending on your choices. (if the stories end up bland and boring i'll jump off a cliff in dispair).
Im not saying more open games like the original SWG can't be fun but they get dry and they don't keep the game feeling massive as other people keep dropping out for the more theme park experience. Atlesat for once the theme park is going to have choices lots and lots and lots and lots of choices and honestly thats a huge step up.
It blows my mind how out of touch developers are with the MMO base. With literally the biggest IP in the world, their focus is NOT what gamers have hated about mmos for years. No no, they will contiune to shovel the bullshit, but will now have STORY! Are you kidding me? The level of absurdity is making my brain swell. People hate classes, they hate levels, they hate watered-down gameplay and grind. Does BioWare plan on address these -universal- complaints? Fuck no, to them the problem with MMOs is story? My mind is utterly blown. From forum to forum across the internet, followers are asking the same basic questions. Whats pvp like? Whats pve like? How are the classes? What is the item system like? Yet over and over, every single dev blog and release is about story. I just can't wrap my head around the unsurpassable amount of ignorance by the dev teams. You would think that seeing the failings of supposed "blockbuster" MMOs like Aoc and WAR would send a message, but no. Alas we continue to be insulted by developers who ignore the -KEY- issues people have with the genre, and instead focus on something utterly worthless. Newsflash jackasses, your customers arn't upset with lack of story, they are upset with the cookie cutter MMO template that money grubing bandwagoners like you continue to reiterate and expect to sell.
Day 1 of each MMO i played was the last time i read the wall of text giving me a backstory to killing x amount of enemies.
Instead I collected xp, loot, and consumed content disguised by pretty graphics and partcile effects.
Thats not going to cut it anymore. There are a ton of players who are over what WoW has done to the market.
So the mold is broken, and we are getting a huge bonus. A game that has us focusing on whats around every turn, what our characters do and how they develop within the persistant world....not loot, pioints, titles, etc.
I am open to this new concept of Bioware's, but will as always be careful about getting excited. As is, I reserve judgement until I get my hands on a final copy.
That's the problem, I don't see the "new" part. Book technology has been around for several years now. Computer animation adds a little bit. But it's safe to say that SWTOR won't be anywhere near as well-animated as Clone Wars, and that sucked.
I don't think there will be an endgame...with micro transactions it will just be more stories...not a raid grind to extend epeens.
I am open to this new concept of Bioware's, but will as always be careful about getting excited. As is, I reserve judgement until I get my hands on a final copy.
That's the problem, I don't see the "new" part. Book technology has been around for several years now. Computer animation adds a little bit. But it's safe to say that SWTOR won't be anywhere near as well-animated as Clone Wars, and that sucked.
I don't think there will be an endgame...with micro transactions it will just be more stories...not a raid grind to extend epeens.
well i thought the graphic animation in the clone wars cartoons was terrible, so if the game isnt like that, then thats a good thing imo.. but micro transactions, does that mean that these story lines that the game is going to revolve around, you have to buy them perhaps, i might be wrong here, but, it sounds to me that that is the direction they were heading in ?
Comments
It's a Bioware game, so I do give a crap about the story espically as it's part of the Star Wars timeline. I read the UK's PCgamer artical about the game and it looks like it's really shaping up to be a great game as I would love to see a single player quality of campaign and voice acting combined with a MMORPG world.
Now, I hate to hype games as it just leads to disappointment but I'm really looking forward to this.
I'd like to know how the "reading is boring" crowd manages to post on a forum.
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
While I agree with your dissatisfaction about the standardized perspective of creating 'cookie-cutter' MMOs these days, and the failings, on one level or another, of virtually every MMO since SWG was dismembered in Dec. 2005, Tirades have never helped our cause.
If you want to invoke true change, flood the dev with real mail, letters of complaint and demands of change, en masse. Griefing on forums rarely gets 'heard' by them, let alone instilling any sense of caring - about your issue - by the powers that be.
At this point, I would logically deduce that they 1) either do not wish to release further info about the game (info about things 'other' than story), possibly because of playability/testing factors. Or 2) They have not even made it far enough in the development stages to offer more info yet.
All we can do is wait and see. If it sucks, it sucks. Nothing we can do to change that. I have 6 MMOs sitting on a shelf collecting dust right now. All of which were touted to be 'better' with 'more story' and 'things to do'. It was a marketing scam. Most of them have been.
However, if this game is even an inkling better than what SWG is now, I will be happy.
And perhaps someday, before we all die of old age, Devs will realize that the systems they had set up in the past, for games like SWG and the first EQ, were actually better and just needed to be expanded upon.
Perhaps we need to start a movement to stop the innundation of 'console' gaming into our precious MMO world.
I say "No More Dumbing Down!"
~Sevryn Blakk
Elder TKM/MSw
XFOR, StarSider, SWG
Has anybody seen the dozens of "gameplay" videos Bioware has released for their upcomming single-player RPG Dragon Age? The whole game appears to be nothing but endless cutscenes. And all the developers ever talk about is story this and story that. As near as I can tell, they're developing an animated version of those old "Choose Your Own Adventure" books.
Apparently that whole company has now been taken over by unpublishable novelists. To them, all the programming and gameplay are just there to provide a context for their backstory - instead of the other way around.
I guess that's what they mean when they say SWTOR is "getting rid of the leveling grind." Who cares about attaining new powers and skills, and the constant tactical changes to gameplay they provide?
All MMORPG players REALLY want is a grind to get to the next cutscene, right?
...Right?
Go play Mass Effect before yapping off.
You armchair quarterbacks are hilarious. When will they learn that they're at their best when they're not thinking aloud.
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
The story is the thing I'm looking forward to the most in the game.
Been there, didn't do that. The Steam version was too full of bugs. (Oh, but don't worry, the authors promised to write an engrossing patch story back in January!)
And, btw, "Einstein," time is linear and your thought processes clearly are not. If as you claim, you only have the two options available to you, next time try thinking INSTEAD of talking.
I heard, if this thread goes on another page, the world will end.
Currently restarting World of Warcraft
in a mmorpg no one need a story... the players should create the story, you just need fantasy. the problem is, the new gaming generation dosn't have much fantasy lol. a few month ago, the kiddys discovered the word "sandbox", now they want their "world of warcraft"- pre-build world back.
i realy don't need a storyline in a mmorpg. i always skip the dialogs and i only read the mission-goals.
*wonders why RPG is in MMORPG*
If you really skip the dialogs and go straight for the quest goals, I'd suggest you'd take a better look at the following games:
Ether Saga online
Jade Dynasty
For both games you don't have to do a thing, skip the dialogs, go to the quest-log, double click on the quest and it even walks you there!
/sarcasm off
I agree with you. They are taking the theme park MMO and adding a mother and father figure to lead you around. Hand holding taken to the next level, or galaxy. I had high hopes for this game. They hired Ashen Temper from Shadowbane, and now Mythic is helping (I like Mythic, I blame EA for War's failure), but finding out its heavly driven by story is the ultimate turnoff.
The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
Thats what the fuck happen when too much noobs are born in this world
I present you, the noob effect video made by pureownage.
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
Story is very important and the more immersive in-depth the better. But, what is truly needed is something new. What is needed is player characters ability to effect the story in a way to change the non-player characters perception and involvement in the story of said player characters. I’ll explain what I mean in a min.
So far, mmo’s have been just an elaborate form of Duck Hunt, just a bunch of flat mobs to knock over and once you got them all move onto the next scene. Even though you can put allot of story around that flat board mob with a bulls eye on its head, in the end you are just to knock it over and get some reward and move on.
Now getting back to what I was talking about earlier. The mobs or non player characters need to REACT in story to your actions. For example; you have a mission to kill some bees to get the honey they are harvesting, along the way you find out there is a Queen bee and to take down this problem permanently you need to take her out. So you take her out, win the day the nest is gone but a few bees escape. These bees take information on those involved to other bee nests and depending on the Queen you killed alliances and status, there are measures taken against you.
Now up to this point the only the only thing we’ve seen is a faction hit which to this day has not really impacted story at all. So, what if the bees generated a mission to take down a player character or a player characters npc base of friends, consultants even quest givers? What if these generated a quest line where diametrically opposed player characters could assist the bees in revenge against player characters and spanning off new story arcs?
I believe this is the next level and mmos need to go there.
That's the problem, I don't see the "new" part. Book technology has been around for several years now. Computer animation adds a little bit. But it's safe to say that SWTOR won't be anywhere near as well-animated as Clone Wars, and that sucked.
I care about story, it's just that I don't care about the fact that they're spending so much time on story. I think that endgame, combat, how fun the game is...then again, story is a very important part in an MMO otherwise, that is going to boring.
Been there, didn't do that. The Steam version was too full of bugs. (Oh, but don't worry, the authors promised to write an engrossing patch story back in January!)
And, btw, "Einstein," time is linear and your thought processes clearly are not. If as you claim, you only have the two options available to you, next time try thinking INSTEAD of talking.
Translation: You have a crappy PC and couldn't run Mass Effect. Game ran just fine on mine and most other people's systems.
And no "trying" doesn't count. As the green man said, Do or Do not. And until you DO keep your mouth shut.
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
Wow, this thread turned into a flame war right quick
A buddy of mine got lost in FFXII because he kept skipping cutscenes and had no idea what the FF was going on. We all had a laugh because he sucks at games with no story as well.
Bottom line is SOME people care about story some don't. Most "blockbuster" movies have a story so thin that it needs to be masked by action sequences and special effects. But with no story whatsoever, then how will you be immersed in any sort of fantasy? Do you get a "vivid imagination discount" at the box office?
There are plenty of ways to enjoy Star Wars without the story. Like the prequels, for example! The story simultaneously sucked and blew. Hell, The Force Unleashed had a decent premise, even if the story's execution was weak. It was still engaging enough that I cared to some degree what the characters' fates were. It also had gameplay, button-mashy though it might have been.
If you want no story elements, then don't play games like this, or any standard breed RPG either. Play puzzle and sports games or multiplayer-only FPS's and stop complaining when a dev team emphasizes story. I for one welcome any effort to engross the user in the world presented to him.
EDIT: Anyone else think this thread should be closed? What else is there to discuss about a book we haven't read?
/agreed
I'm not to keen on a pre-written story myself. I'd rather make my own.
Nothing against some storytelling, but hundreds of hours of story won't substitute playability, crafting, player driven economy, pvp etc.
"nerf rock, paper is working as intended."
- Scissors.
Head Chop
/agreed
I'm not to keen on a pre-written story myself. I'd rather make my own.
Nothing against some storytelling, but hundreds of hours of story won't substitute playability, crafting, player driven economy, pvp etc.
So how does one make there own story in a game? Unless they give you tools to make quests I don't see that possible. Like for example Im a character that is playing a farmer and I built my farm in what used to be a peaceful area. But things have changed in game and suddenly wolves have started appearing in my area. I can't fend them off my self so I need to hire someone to kill them. So I set something up in the town bulletin board someone sees and comes to see me. They take the "quest" and complete it, I give them money now I can go back to my business, they search for some others in need of help.
For a game to have real player driven story the world has to change in real time, weather has to effect things, AI has to be smart and migrate,reproduce and get over populated or get underpopulated. Players have to need things and offer services so you have to be only one class or job, you cant be a monster hunter and a crafter at the same time but you can change jobs whenever.
There are a lot of things that need to happen for a game to be completely player ran. I sure as hell wouldn't want to play a farmer, I would want to be an adventurer roaming around the world sleeping where I can and killing things. But if people want to do that then thats cool with me, the game needs people that want to do that sort of thing.
Don't get me wrong, I would love to see a game like this but there are so many variables that come in to factor it would make it really hard to make. I guess games like Entropia and 2nd life are close to a player driven story because basicly just like living in the real world. But we have no games like this in the Fantasy settings, at least I haven't heard of any.
/agreed
I'm not to keen on a pre-written story myself. I'd rather make my own.
Nothing against some storytelling, but hundreds of hours of story won't substitute playability, crafting, player driven economy, pvp etc.
So how does one make there own story in a game? Unless they give you tools to make quests I don't see that possible. Like for example Im a character that is playing a farmer and I built my farm in what used to be a peaceful area. But things have changed in game and suddenly wolves have started appearing in my area. I can't fend them off my self so I need to hire someone to kill them. So I set something up in the town bulletin board someone sees and comes to see me. They take the "quest" and complete it, I give them money now I can go back to my business, they search for some others in need of help.
For a game to have real player driven story the world has to change in real time, weather has to effect things, AI has to be smart and migrate,reproduce and get over populated or get underpopulated. Players have to need things and offer services so you have to be only one class or job, you cant be a monster hunter and a crafter at the same time but you can change jobs whenever.
There are a lot of things that need to happen for a game to be completely player ran. I sure as hell wouldn't want to play a farmer, I would want to be an adventurer roaming around the world sleeping where I can and killing things. But if people want to do that then thats cool with me, the game needs people that want to do that sort of thing.
Don't get me wrong, I would love to see a game like this but there are so many variables that come in to factor it would make it really hard to make. I guess games like Entropia and 2nd life are close to a player driven story because basicly just like living in the real world. But we have no games like this in the Fantasy settings, at least I haven't heard of any.
Generally, when people talk about the players making their own story, it is a game where the players have some affect over the world, usually in the form of territory control or something else that impacts the players.
There are many "player stories" in EVE, because the game is all about the Corporations, and what sector of space they control, which Corporations took out each other, which Corps were betrayed by their members, those that rose to power then lost evertying, etc.
It's not really about player made quests, but the story of the world becomes like World History. You can read about the wars between the Romans and the Greeks, or the power struggles in Europe before and after the Dark Ages, etc., etc.
PLayers tend to care much more about how they changed the game world, then some lore that's just a bunch of words that doesn't mean anything or have any real affect on game play.
Why do you need to know the lore in WoW? You don't. In EVE you need to know the history of the various Corporatoins so you know who's allied with whom, who is deadly enemies with whom, and so on. It's actually usefull information.
However, the pre written story in a game can vary in quality. It just so happens that the story in KOTOR is very, very good, unlike most MMORPG lore and quests which are just crap.
Also, the "stories" in TOR will have slightly diifferent outcomes depending on your choices. That helps make it a bit more engaging, or at least I hope it will be.
i equate story to questing and in this case, forced questing.
I dont want to be forced into a KOTOR style series of quests....
complete quest A to access quest B.
complete quest B to access quest C.
complete quest C and leave planet.
next planet
complete quest A to access quest B
rinse and repeat
sure its cool to have different dialog based on different responses. And that is supposed to make the game fun to replay according to Bioware.
But since when is an MMO about replayability ? Because WoW got us used to re-rolling a toon once the theme park content ride ended, its now considered content to play another toon ? And I should desire this more simply because I can choose option B or C in quest dialog ???
When did this idea that single rpg gameplay, ie replaying the game once you beat it filter into MMO's ? And whats with the focus on questing / story ?
I like quests but I want them hidden, hard to find, no tor-wiki walkthrough postings, and the option to not be forced to do them.
story/quests should be something like icing on the cake or ice cream added to a hot slice of apple pie. But recently its the entire focus and thats where i have issues.
this is the inherent flaw with level based, class systems via theme park content. the danger is running out of content so lets make the game fun to replay.
i'd rather have sandbox freedom, thats the ultimate in replayable content. I was never bored in star wars galaxies but ive cancelled wow6 times after ive done all the rides
Last time I played a sandbox game there were no quests and it was repeatative and boring. The few 'quests' were go kill some boars or bears or whatever was bothering the npc so that you could gain a few points in X skill.
BTW in TOR Quest A doesn't lead to Quest B it leads to Options that could Take you to B1 B2 or B3 etc. That doesn't even include all the side quests if you go and help someone else with their story or when your stories might intermingle which properly encourages players to play together instead of all the negative reasons to group like group by force or die in other games.
Star Wars was always about the story and the choices the characters made and where it ultimately lead them in the end. TOR's doing STar Wars right by bringing back story and hopefully the feeling of being a hero or villian depending on your choices. (if the stories end up bland and boring i'll jump off a cliff in dispair).
Im not saying more open games like the original SWG can't be fun but they get dry and they don't keep the game feeling massive as other people keep dropping out for the more theme park experience. Atlesat for once the theme park is going to have choices lots and lots and lots and lots of choices and honestly thats a huge step up.
Day 1 of each MMO i played was the last time i read the wall of text giving me a backstory to killing x amount of enemies.
Instead I collected xp, loot, and consumed content disguised by pretty graphics and partcile effects.
Thats not going to cut it anymore. There are a ton of players who are over what WoW has done to the market.
So the mold is broken, and we are getting a huge bonus. A game that has us focusing on whats around every turn, what our characters do and how they develop within the persistant world....not loot, pioints, titles, etc.
That's the problem, I don't see the "new" part. Book technology has been around for several years now. Computer animation adds a little bit. But it's safe to say that SWTOR won't be anywhere near as well-animated as Clone Wars, and that sucked.
I don't think there will be an endgame...with micro transactions it will just be more stories...not a raid grind to extend epeens.
That's the problem, I don't see the "new" part. Book technology has been around for several years now. Computer animation adds a little bit. But it's safe to say that SWTOR won't be anywhere near as well-animated as Clone Wars, and that sucked.
I don't think there will be an endgame...with micro transactions it will just be more stories...not a raid grind to extend epeens.
well i thought the graphic animation in the clone wars cartoons was terrible, so if the game isnt like that, then thats a good thing imo.. but micro transactions, does that mean that these story lines that the game is going to revolve around, you have to buy them perhaps, i might be wrong here, but, it sounds to me that that is the direction they were heading in ?