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Star Wars: The Old Republic: Mythic to Assist in Development

24

Comments

  • archer75archer75 Gresham, ORPosts: 156Member
    Originally posted by dsebutchr

    Originally posted by archer75


     
    sucks for YOU. Let's be clear on that. Just because YOU don't like a game means the rest of the world agrees. The numbers show that most people like it better than most of the MMO's on the market(not even talking about korean MMO's but rather proven MMO's along with the latest gen).  YOU simply wanted to believe the game was something it was never meant to be. And when it didn't live up to your own personal hype YOU determined it sucks for everyone.



     

    Actually the ENORMOUS number of people who left, determined it sucked.  When 3 times the number that remain left because the game was not what was promised, not what was hyped, did not match the LORE in almost any way, did not match the storyline that has existed for 20 years in any way, did not meet the expectations of anyone who knew the IP in any way other than having some of the names of certain characters or classes present, that is how I define SUX.

    Those who chose to stay and pay for that travesty were the minority sweetheart.  Don't forget that for a minute.

    And other than being able to tell Bioware a good efficient way of screwing up a good IP, there isn't much help they can provide other than giving them people to write standard code for them.   Create the good stuff on the Bioware side, have the Mythic people do the grunt work.  That should give them a good game.

    Most people know nothing of the lore.And don't care about it. I personally don't know a single person who plays or has plays that know anything about warhammer whatsoever. Getting into the lore is really only a select few. Most gamers do not care.

    Also games workshop had to approve everything. If there is something not correct in the lore of the game it was they who approved it.

    No, people left for the exact reasons I said. They expected it to be wow with better pvp and/or they let their own internal hype meter go off the scale. I could a third reason, it came out right about the time people were bored to death of wow and weren't doing anything until the expansion came out.

    And no, 3 times the number that remain did not leave. It never had 900k subscribers. More than half left though. And right about the time Wrath of the Lich King released.

    Tribes 2 is back!!!! http://www.tribesnext.com/
    And from the makers of tribes: Fallen Empire: Legions http://www.instantaction.com/

  • hembothembot Chico, CAPosts: 14Member

    In fairness some executive producer guy states that Bioware is an RPG developer with the RPG experience in mind. The Hardcore "skip the story" types are bound to be in for disappointment...at least until an expansion or two is my guess.

  • archer75archer75 Gresham, ORPosts: 156Member
    Originally posted by hembot


    Actually WAR sucks because it didn't live up to its own hype via failed promises and actually turning out to be a WoW clone. Many of us were expecting DAoC meets Planetside type of PvP. The Ebb and Flow. The strategy and tactics. The idea that you were progressing the campaign more than your own toon.
     Did you WAR fanbois ever even make it to a city siege? When totally awesome epic climax involves sitting in the same spot spamming AoE for 6 hours because only enough defenders to fill out 2/10 instances is what you are working for all those months you get the impression that any shared ideas coming out of Mythic are something less than a boon to the Star Wars IP.

     

    That is what YOU were expecting. That is your own personal hype. They never said that is what warhammer was going to be. You read what was said and interrupted it the way YOU wanted to. Which is exactly what I talked it about in my reasons  of why people left .

    The key to these type of games is the players. You can't force players to fill up ever queue for everything you want them to do. You provide the tools and the players carry it out. The problem in MMO's is the players are too dumb to fight with any kind of strategy or tactics. You are not so much relying  on the game for the sort of combat you describe, you are relying on the other players to carry out this epic combat.  Thing is, they don't want to or are too busy doing other things that matter to them.

    I saw that coming a mile away.

    Tribes 2 is back!!!! http://www.tribesnext.com/
    And from the makers of tribes: Fallen Empire: Legions http://www.instantaction.com/

  • archer75archer75 Gresham, ORPosts: 156Member
    Originally posted by Vrazule

    Originally posted by Ozryk

    Originally posted by Vrazule


    This is sad news to me.  I wouldn't want SWTOR to have any similarity to WAR or DAoC, both of which are too hardcore for my taste.  I wanted this to be the first truly casual MMO that didn't cater to the hardcore elite and didn't embrace old school paradigms.  With Mythic involved, this could very well change everything about this game except the story.  Mythic is no better than any other MMO company that embraces tried and true MMO paradigms, from grindy game play to worhtless time sinks and ridiculous player based economies and focus on crafting and PvP that gets better rewards than PvE.
    The only news I could have found worse would have been SOE joining the team.
    This is going to turn out to be just like the rest of the crappy MMOs that infect the market.  /cry

     

    Um... if you think any mmo to be released in the last 4 years caters to the hardcore-elite (outside Darkfall), you might seriously consider finding a new genre of game to get into.

    PvP ≠ hardcore-elite.

    After WoW, no company has risked releasing ANYTHING that doesnt cater primarily to casuals.



     

    Really?  So, all of those games, including the casual friendly WoW, don't do the bait and switch thing by starting off casual, then making end game completely about raiding?  Are you high on something or just clueless?  Every supposedly casual game out there still gives hardcores the best rewards and the most interesting and exclusive content, so please excuse my dismay at your point of view.

    WoW is extremely casual. Of course those who are hardcore, who put more time in, are going to get more. That simply goes without saying.

    You can casually run BG's and get gear. You can run 10 arena matches a week and get gear. Now you can run heroics and get emblems to purchase tier 9 raid gear and never have to raid(patch 3.2). You certainly do not have to be a hardcore raider in wow. They provide an option for hardcores. But the bulk of wow is most certainly built around casual players.

    The bulk of MMO players are casual. By far. MMO's must cater to that market if they want to get paid.

    Tribes 2 is back!!!! http://www.tribesnext.com/
    And from the makers of tribes: Fallen Empire: Legions http://www.instantaction.com/

  • VrazuleVrazule Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 1,095Member
    Originally posted by archer75

    Originally posted by dsebutchr

    Originally posted by archer75


     
    sucks for YOU. Let's be clear on that. Just because YOU don't like a game means the rest of the world agrees. The numbers show that most people like it better than most of the MMO's on the market(not even talking about korean MMO's but rather proven MMO's along with the latest gen).  YOU simply wanted to believe the game was something it was never meant to be. And when it didn't live up to your own personal hype YOU determined it sucks for everyone.



     

    Actually the ENORMOUS number of people who left, determined it sucked.  When 3 times the number that remain left because the game was not what was promised, not what was hyped, did not match the LORE in almost any way, did not match the storyline that has existed for 20 years in any way, did not meet the expectations of anyone who knew the IP in any way other than having some of the names of certain characters or classes present, that is how I define SUX.

    Those who chose to stay and pay for that travesty were the minority sweetheart.  Don't forget that for a minute.

    And other than being able to tell Bioware a good efficient way of screwing up a good IP, there isn't much help they can provide other than giving them people to write standard code for them.   Create the good stuff on the Bioware side, have the Mythic people do the grunt work.  That should give them a good game.

    Most people know nothing of the lore.And don't care about it. I personally don't know a single person who plays or has plays that know anything about warhammer whatsoever. Getting into the lore is really only a select few. Most gamers do not care.

    Also games workshop had to approve everything. If there is something not correct in the lore of the game it was they who approved it.

    No, people left for the exact reasons I said. They expected it to be wow with better pvp and/or they let their own internal hype meter go off the scale. I could a third reason, it came out right about the time people were bored to death of wow and weren't doing anything until the expansion came out.

    And no, 3 times the number that remain did not leave. It never had 900k subscribers. More than half left though. And right about the time Wrath of the Lich King released.

    Yes, because we all know that WAR was a magnet for casual players, you know, the kind who DO like story, who do enjoy PvE and who want a relaxing and entertaining gaming session.

     

    With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal

  • OzrykOzryk Dallas, TXPosts: 88Member
    Originally posted by Vrazule

    Originally posted by Ozryk

    Originally posted by Vrazule


    This is sad news to me.  I wouldn't want SWTOR to have any similarity to WAR or DAoC, both of which are too hardcore for my taste.  I wanted this to be the first truly casual MMO that didn't cater to the hardcore elite and didn't embrace old school paradigms.  With Mythic involved, this could very well change everything about this game except the story.  Mythic is no better than any other MMO company that embraces tried and true MMO paradigms, from grindy game play to worhtless time sinks and ridiculous player based economies and focus on crafting and PvP that gets better rewards than PvE.
    The only news I could have found worse would have been SOE joining the team.
    This is going to turn out to be just like the rest of the crappy MMOs that infect the market.  /cry

     

    Um... if you think any mmo to be released in the last 4 years caters to the hardcore-elite (outside Darkfall), you might seriously consider finding a new genre of game to get into.

    PvP ≠ hardcore-elite.

    After WoW, no company has risked releasing ANYTHING that doesnt cater primarily to casuals.



     

    Really?  So, all of those games, including the casual friendly WoW, don't do the bait and switch thing by starting off casual, then making end game completely about raiding?  Are you high on something or just clueless?  Every supposedly casual game out there still gives hardcores the best rewards and the most interesting and exclusive content, so please excuse my dismay at your point of view.

     

    Yes, because needing 5 people to do a dungeon in WAR is so outrageous as to warrant an explosion of nerd rage.

    What bait and switch?  WoW has continually dumbed down its end game for 'casuals' to the point of being laughable now.  You can 10 man anything.  And if you can't find 10 friends to do a dungeon with, then truly... MMOs are not for you.

    Your reward point is also null.  You're basically a proponent of MMO socialism.  No matter how good you are, or how hard you work, everyone gets the same rewards.  What exactly would be the point of end game then?  Everyone soloing dungeons for the same rewards?  Where's the motivation?  Where's even the NEED to be online?

    Grow up, stop whining.

  • archer75archer75 Gresham, ORPosts: 156Member
    Originally posted by Vrazule

    Originally posted by archer75

    Originally posted by dsebutchr

    Originally posted by archer75


     
    sucks for YOU. Let's be clear on that. Just because YOU don't like a game means the rest of the world agrees. The numbers show that most people like it better than most of the MMO's on the market(not even talking about korean MMO's but rather proven MMO's along with the latest gen).  YOU simply wanted to believe the game was something it was never meant to be. And when it didn't live up to your own personal hype YOU determined it sucks for everyone.



     

    Actually the ENORMOUS number of people who left, determined it sucked.  When 3 times the number that remain left because the game was not what was promised, not what was hyped, did not match the LORE in almost any way, did not match the storyline that has existed for 20 years in any way, did not meet the expectations of anyone who knew the IP in any way other than having some of the names of certain characters or classes present, that is how I define SUX.

    Those who chose to stay and pay for that travesty were the minority sweetheart.  Don't forget that for a minute.

    And other than being able to tell Bioware a good efficient way of screwing up a good IP, there isn't much help they can provide other than giving them people to write standard code for them.   Create the good stuff on the Bioware side, have the Mythic people do the grunt work.  That should give them a good game.

    Most people know nothing of the lore.And don't care about it. I personally don't know a single person who plays or has plays that know anything about warhammer whatsoever. Getting into the lore is really only a select few. Most gamers do not care.

    Also games workshop had to approve everything. If there is something not correct in the lore of the game it was they who approved it.

    No, people left for the exact reasons I said. They expected it to be wow with better pvp and/or they let their own internal hype meter go off the scale. I could a third reason, it came out right about the time people were bored to death of wow and weren't doing anything until the expansion came out.

    And no, 3 times the number that remain did not leave. It never had 900k subscribers. More than half left though. And right about the time Wrath of the Lich King released.

    Yes, because we all know that WAR was a magnet for casual players, you know, the kind who DO like story, who do enjoy PvE and who want a relaxing and entertaining gaming session.

     

    War is very casual friendly. And it doesn't get more casual than me! In fact in alot of ways I find it more casual friendly that Wow.  And there is alot of story there, the quests are well written.  I couldn't tell you how it fits into the warhammer universe because I know nothing about that.There aren't many people that care about how it fits into the warhammer IP.

    But Warhammer was never a big PvE game. It's focus has always been RvR. And the devs stated that as well. While you can PvE to the level cap it's going to take longer.They envision people doing a mix of the two and the game is clearly designed around that. Just as they said it would be.

    Tribes 2 is back!!!! http://www.tribesnext.com/
    And from the makers of tribes: Fallen Empire: Legions http://www.instantaction.com/

  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148 1, NJPosts: 6,690Member

    Sorry but I do not want Mythic touching this game at all. All I want them to do is watch and take notes on how to make a good game.

    30
  • VrazuleVrazule Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 1,095Member
    Originally posted by archer75

    Originally posted by Vrazule

    Originally posted by Ozryk

    Originally posted by Vrazule


    This is sad news to me.  I wouldn't want SWTOR to have any similarity to WAR or DAoC, both of which are too hardcore for my taste.  I wanted this to be the first truly casual MMO that didn't cater to the hardcore elite and didn't embrace old school paradigms.  With Mythic involved, this could very well change everything about this game except the story.  Mythic is no better than any other MMO company that embraces tried and true MMO paradigms, from grindy game play to worhtless time sinks and ridiculous player based economies and focus on crafting and PvP that gets better rewards than PvE.
    The only news I could have found worse would have been SOE joining the team.
    This is going to turn out to be just like the rest of the crappy MMOs that infect the market.  /cry

     

    Um... if you think any mmo to be released in the last 4 years caters to the hardcore-elite (outside Darkfall), you might seriously consider finding a new genre of game to get into.

    PvP ≠ hardcore-elite.

    After WoW, no company has risked releasing ANYTHING that doesnt cater primarily to casuals.



     

    Really?  So, all of those games, including the casual friendly WoW, don't do the bait and switch thing by starting off casual, then making end game completely about raiding?  Are you high on something or just clueless?  Every supposedly casual game out there still gives hardcores the best rewards and the most interesting and exclusive content, so please excuse my dismay at your point of view.

    WoW is extremely casual. Of course those who are hardcore, who put more time in, are going to get more. That simply goes without saying.

    You can casually run BG's and get gear. You can run 10 arena matches a week and get gear. Now you can run heroics and get emblems to purchase tier 9 raid gear and never have to raid(patch 3.2). You certainly do not have to be a hardcore raider in wow. They provide an option for hardcores. But the bulk of wow is most certainly built around casual players.

    The bulk of MMO players are casual. By far. MMO's must cater to that market if they want to get paid.

    No, it doesn't go without saying.  Just because you sit in front of a computer for 8 hours straight, while I will put in the same amount of time, but over an entire week, does not justify you getting better rewards.  We both put in the same amount of time and effort, but only no-lifers get the rewards, screw that.

     

    You may find a lot of things like BG's and Heroics and arenas as casual content, but they're not.  They appeal to hardcores who view them as more casual than the typical raiding, but are no more appealing to the casual crowd.  Even you have to know deep down inside that PvP does not appeal to most casual players or that getting 10 people together for heroics is not casual friendly either nor is having to do them repeatedly ad nauseum to get enough emblems to buy sub-standard raid gear.  As you people are always so quick to point out, we don't have the patience nor the attention span to raid, grind or faction just to get shiny bits of loot that are still substantially sub-par to raiding or PvP gear.

    They are only just beginning to understand the casual market.  They have a long way to go before they actually get it right and when they do, I bet my soul this industry will explode with new players.

    With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal

  • SwaneaSwanea Vegas, NVPosts: 2,368Member Uncommon

    From the videos We have seen of TOR, the combat is 137423490182743190274024379-43-19783240927842078421278 times better just from watching. It does not look ungodly slow, or super clunky like Wars is.

     

    I would prefer mythic to just say "LOL THAT DOES NOT WORK LOL" And not, "try this, this, this, this, maybe it will work for you! lol!"

  • VrazuleVrazule Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 1,095Member
    Originally posted by Ozryk

    Originally posted by Vrazule

    Originally posted by Ozryk

    Originally posted by Vrazule


    This is sad news to me.  I wouldn't want SWTOR to have any similarity to WAR or DAoC, both of which are too hardcore for my taste.  I wanted this to be the first truly casual MMO that didn't cater to the hardcore elite and didn't embrace old school paradigms.  With Mythic involved, this could very well change everything about this game except the story.  Mythic is no better than any other MMO company that embraces tried and true MMO paradigms, from grindy game play to worhtless time sinks and ridiculous player based economies and focus on crafting and PvP that gets better rewards than PvE.
    The only news I could have found worse would have been SOE joining the team.
    This is going to turn out to be just like the rest of the crappy MMOs that infect the market.  /cry

     

    Um... if you think any mmo to be released in the last 4 years caters to the hardcore-elite (outside Darkfall), you might seriously consider finding a new genre of game to get into.

    PvP ≠ hardcore-elite.

    After WoW, no company has risked releasing ANYTHING that doesnt cater primarily to casuals.



     

    Really?  So, all of those games, including the casual friendly WoW, don't do the bait and switch thing by starting off casual, then making end game completely about raiding?  Are you high on something or just clueless?  Every supposedly casual game out there still gives hardcores the best rewards and the most interesting and exclusive content, so please excuse my dismay at your point of view.

     

    Yes, because needing 5 people to do a dungeon in WAR is so outrageous as to warrant an explosion of nerd rage.

    What bait and switch?  WoW has continually dumbed down its end game for 'casuals' to the point of being laughable now.  You can 10 man anything.  And if you can't find 10 friends to do a dungeon with, then truly... MMOs are not for you.

    Your reward point is also null.  You're basically a proponent of MMO socialism.  No matter how good you are, or how hard you work, everyone gets the same rewards.  What exactly would be the point of end game then?  Everyone soloing dungeons for the same rewards?  Where's the motivation?  Where's even the NEED to be online?

    Grow up, stop whining.



     

    Talk about nerd rage.  WE all know that MMO's reward you for chunks of time, not frakking skill, so give that retarded excuse a rest.  Socialism, do you really want to go there?  What a ridiculous argument.  These are suppose to be games, not simulations and certainly not like a job.

    The motivation is to have fun bub, not to complete your lack of achievement from real life.  Soloers manage to be quite social in these games, learn to think outside of the box for once.

    It's not whining, just becuase you don't agree with it, you need to grow up.

    With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal

  • archer75archer75 Gresham, ORPosts: 156Member
    Originally posted by Vrazule

    Originally posted by archer75

    Originally posted by Vrazule

    Originally posted by Ozryk

    Originally posted by Vrazule


    This is sad news to me.  I wouldn't want SWTOR to have any similarity to WAR or DAoC, both of which are too hardcore for my taste.  I wanted this to be the first truly casual MMO that didn't cater to the hardcore elite and didn't embrace old school paradigms.  With Mythic involved, this could very well change everything about this game except the story.  Mythic is no better than any other MMO company that embraces tried and true MMO paradigms, from grindy game play to worhtless time sinks and ridiculous player based economies and focus on crafting and PvP that gets better rewards than PvE.
    The only news I could have found worse would have been SOE joining the team.
    This is going to turn out to be just like the rest of the crappy MMOs that infect the market.  /cry

     

    Um... if you think any mmo to be released in the last 4 years caters to the hardcore-elite (outside Darkfall), you might seriously consider finding a new genre of game to get into.

    PvP ≠ hardcore-elite.

    After WoW, no company has risked releasing ANYTHING that doesnt cater primarily to casuals.



     

    Really?  So, all of those games, including the casual friendly WoW, don't do the bait and switch thing by starting off casual, then making end game completely about raiding?  Are you high on something or just clueless?  Every supposedly casual game out there still gives hardcores the best rewards and the most interesting and exclusive content, so please excuse my dismay at your point of view.

    WoW is extremely casual. Of course those who are hardcore, who put more time in, are going to get more. That simply goes without saying.

    You can casually run BG's and get gear. You can run 10 arena matches a week and get gear. Now you can run heroics and get emblems to purchase tier 9 raid gear and never have to raid(patch 3.2). You certainly do not have to be a hardcore raider in wow. They provide an option for hardcores. But the bulk of wow is most certainly built around casual players.

    The bulk of MMO players are casual. By far. MMO's must cater to that market if they want to get paid.

    No, it doesn't go without saying.  Just because you sit in front of a computer for 8 hours straight, while I will put in the same amount of time, but over an entire week, does not justify you getting better rewards.  We both put in the same amount of time and effort, but only no-lifers get the rewards, screw that.

     

    You may find a lot of things like BG's and Heroics and arenas as casual content, but they're not.  They appeal to hardcores who view them as more casual than the typical raiding, but are no more appealing to the casual crowd.  Even you have to know deep down inside that PvP does not appeal to most casual players or that getting 10 people together for heroics is not casual friendly either nor is having to do them repeatedly ad nauseum to get enough emblems to buy sub-standard raid gear.  As you people are always so quick to point out, we don't have the patience nor the attention span to raid, grind or faction just to get shiny bits of loot that are still substantially sub-par to raiding or PvP gear.

    They are only just beginning to understand the casual market.  They have a long way to go before they actually get it right and when they do, I bet my soul this industry will explode with new players.

    The more time you put does indeed justify getting better rewards. You do more content so you get more. Simple as that. I know that I will never put that time in. And I know I will never get those rewards as a result. I'm fine with that. Most people are.

    What you are feeling is entitlement. You feel you should get everything you ever wanted without having to play for it.

    BG's and arena's are very casual. I can log in, do a BG in 20 minutes and log out. For arenas I only need 1 - 4 other people to do them. Takes maybe an hour out of my week.

    The emblems you get in patch 3.2 heroics is not sub standard raid gear. It is the raid gear.

    None of these things takes much time at all. I do it when I have free time. When I feel like it.

    The more time you play, the more you get. Simple as that. Makes perfect sense. No, i'm not going to grind rep or dailies. I don't care for that. Nor am I going to raid. I don't have the time. But I don't think I should get everything that people who play alot get. If they just gave everyone everything there would be no reason to continue to play. you'd have it all. Then what would the point be?

    Tribes 2 is back!!!! http://www.tribesnext.com/
    And from the makers of tribes: Fallen Empire: Legions http://www.instantaction.com/

  • skeaserskeaser Wichita Falls, TXPosts: 3,849Member Uncommon

    Will Bioware fix WAR in return?

  • StratfordStratford Riverside, CAPosts: 112Member
    Originally posted by Swanea


    From the videos We have seen of TOR, the combat is 137423490182743190274024379-43-19783240927842078421278 times better just from watching. It does not look ungodly slow, or super clunky like Wars is.
     
    I would prefer mythic to just say "LOL THAT DOES NOT WORK LOL" And not, "try this, this, this, this, maybe it will work for you! lol!"

     

    Speed is not a necessary component of fun combat mechanics.

     

    Stop trying to turn all my MMOs into FPSs/console-kiddie pew pew games.

  • ThradarThradar Minas Tirith, NVPosts: 949Member

     Bioware >>>>> Mythic

    Let's hope that people from Mythic are just do'ers and not deciders.

  • VrazuleVrazule Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 1,095Member
    Originally posted by archer75

    Originally posted by Vrazule

    Originally posted by archer75

    Originally posted by Vrazule

    Originally posted by Ozryk

    Originally posted by Vrazule


    This is sad news to me.  I wouldn't want SWTOR to have any similarity to WAR or DAoC, both of which are too hardcore for my taste.  I wanted this to be the first truly casual MMO that didn't cater to the hardcore elite and didn't embrace old school paradigms.  With Mythic involved, this could very well change everything about this game except the story.  Mythic is no better than any other MMO company that embraces tried and true MMO paradigms, from grindy game play to worhtless time sinks and ridiculous player based economies and focus on crafting and PvP that gets better rewards than PvE.
    The only news I could have found worse would have been SOE joining the team.
    This is going to turn out to be just like the rest of the crappy MMOs that infect the market.  /cry

     

    Um... if you think any mmo to be released in the last 4 years caters to the hardcore-elite (outside Darkfall), you might seriously consider finding a new genre of game to get into.

    PvP ≠ hardcore-elite.

    After WoW, no company has risked releasing ANYTHING that doesnt cater primarily to casuals.



     

    Really?  So, all of those games, including the casual friendly WoW, don't do the bait and switch thing by starting off casual, then making end game completely about raiding?  Are you high on something or just clueless?  Every supposedly casual game out there still gives hardcores the best rewards and the most interesting and exclusive content, so please excuse my dismay at your point of view.

    WoW is extremely casual. Of course those who are hardcore, who put more time in, are going to get more. That simply goes without saying.

    You can casually run BG's and get gear. You can run 10 arena matches a week and get gear. Now you can run heroics and get emblems to purchase tier 9 raid gear and never have to raid(patch 3.2). You certainly do not have to be a hardcore raider in wow. They provide an option for hardcores. But the bulk of wow is most certainly built around casual players.

    The bulk of MMO players are casual. By far. MMO's must cater to that market if they want to get paid.

    No, it doesn't go without saying.  Just because you sit in front of a computer for 8 hours straight, while I will put in the same amount of time, but over an entire week, does not justify you getting better rewards.  We both put in the same amount of time and effort, but only no-lifers get the rewards, screw that.

     

    You may find a lot of things like BG's and Heroics and arenas as casual content, but they're not.  They appeal to hardcores who view them as more casual than the typical raiding, but are no more appealing to the casual crowd.  Even you have to know deep down inside that PvP does not appeal to most casual players or that getting 10 people together for heroics is not casual friendly either nor is having to do them repeatedly ad nauseum to get enough emblems to buy sub-standard raid gear.  As you people are always so quick to point out, we don't have the patience nor the attention span to raid, grind or faction just to get shiny bits of loot that are still substantially sub-par to raiding or PvP gear.

    They are only just beginning to understand the casual market.  They have a long way to go before they actually get it right and when they do, I bet my soul this industry will explode with new players.

    The more time you put does indeed justify getting better rewards. You do more content so you get more. Simple as that. I know that I will never put that time in. And I know I will never get those rewards as a result. I'm fine with that. Most people are.

    What you are feeling is entitlement. You feel you should get everything you ever wanted without having to play for it.

    BG's and arena's are very casual. I can log in, do a BG in 20 minutes and log out. For arenas I only need 1 - 4 other people to do them. Takes maybe an hour out of my week.

    The emblems you get in patch 3.2 heroics is not sub standard raid gear. It is the raid gear.

    None of these things takes much time at all. I do it when I have free time. When I feel like it.

    The more time you play, the more you get. Simple as that. Makes perfect sense. No, i'm not going to grind rep or dailies. I don't care for that. Nor am I going to raid. I don't have the time. But I don't think I should get everything that people who play alot get. If they just gave everyone everything there would be no reason to continue to play. you'd have it all. Then what would the point be?



     

    There is absolutely nothing casual about PvP, period.  Your view of what is casual is quite skewed.  Please point out one single PvP focus game that is full of casual players..........  that's what I thought.

    You don't pay attention very well, do you.  Notice how MMO's reward you excessively for playing 8 hours straight, versus 8 hours over a period of time?  Casuals play just as much as you guys do, only over a period of time instead of in chunks.  You do not inherently deserver better rewards, it's only because developing companies are infested with hardcore nerds who choose to set it up that way.

    The reason to play and continue playing an MMO is because it's fun, not because you think you should get exclusive content and rewards.  Like it or not, MMO companies are finally starting to get it, slowly but surely and your play style will one day take a back seat to actual entertainment.

    With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal

  • archer75archer75 Gresham, ORPosts: 156Member
    Originally posted by Vrazule

    Originally posted by archer75

    Originally posted by Vrazule

    Originally posted by archer75

    Originally posted by Vrazule

    Originally posted by Ozryk

    Originally posted by Vrazule


    This is sad news to me.  I wouldn't want SWTOR to have any similarity to WAR or DAoC, both of which are too hardcore for my taste.  I wanted this to be the first truly casual MMO that didn't cater to the hardcore elite and didn't embrace old school paradigms.  With Mythic involved, this could very well change everything about this game except the story.  Mythic is no better than any other MMO company that embraces tried and true MMO paradigms, from grindy game play to worhtless time sinks and ridiculous player based economies and focus on crafting and PvP that gets better rewards than PvE.
    The only news I could have found worse would have been SOE joining the team.
    This is going to turn out to be just like the rest of the crappy MMOs that infect the market.  /cry

     

    Um... if you think any mmo to be released in the last 4 years caters to the hardcore-elite (outside Darkfall), you might seriously consider finding a new genre of game to get into.

    PvP ≠ hardcore-elite.

    After WoW, no company has risked releasing ANYTHING that doesnt cater primarily to casuals.



     

    Really?  So, all of those games, including the casual friendly WoW, don't do the bait and switch thing by starting off casual, then making end game completely about raiding?  Are you high on something or just clueless?  Every supposedly casual game out there still gives hardcores the best rewards and the most interesting and exclusive content, so please excuse my dismay at your point of view.

    WoW is extremely casual. Of course those who are hardcore, who put more time in, are going to get more. That simply goes without saying.

    You can casually run BG's and get gear. You can run 10 arena matches a week and get gear. Now you can run heroics and get emblems to purchase tier 9 raid gear and never have to raid(patch 3.2). You certainly do not have to be a hardcore raider in wow. They provide an option for hardcores. But the bulk of wow is most certainly built around casual players.

    The bulk of MMO players are casual. By far. MMO's must cater to that market if they want to get paid.

    No, it doesn't go without saying.  Just because you sit in front of a computer for 8 hours straight, while I will put in the same amount of time, but over an entire week, does not justify you getting better rewards.  We both put in the same amount of time and effort, but only no-lifers get the rewards, screw that.

     

    You may find a lot of things like BG's and Heroics and arenas as casual content, but they're not.  They appeal to hardcores who view them as more casual than the typical raiding, but are no more appealing to the casual crowd.  Even you have to know deep down inside that PvP does not appeal to most casual players or that getting 10 people together for heroics is not casual friendly either nor is having to do them repeatedly ad nauseum to get enough emblems to buy sub-standard raid gear.  As you people are always so quick to point out, we don't have the patience nor the attention span to raid, grind or faction just to get shiny bits of loot that are still substantially sub-par to raiding or PvP gear.

    They are only just beginning to understand the casual market.  They have a long way to go before they actually get it right and when they do, I bet my soul this industry will explode with new players.

    The more time you put does indeed justify getting better rewards. You do more content so you get more. Simple as that. I know that I will never put that time in. And I know I will never get those rewards as a result. I'm fine with that. Most people are.

    What you are feeling is entitlement. You feel you should get everything you ever wanted without having to play for it.

    BG's and arena's are very casual. I can log in, do a BG in 20 minutes and log out. For arenas I only need 1 - 4 other people to do them. Takes maybe an hour out of my week.

    The emblems you get in patch 3.2 heroics is not sub standard raid gear. It is the raid gear.

    None of these things takes much time at all. I do it when I have free time. When I feel like it.

    The more time you play, the more you get. Simple as that. Makes perfect sense. No, i'm not going to grind rep or dailies. I don't care for that. Nor am I going to raid. I don't have the time. But I don't think I should get everything that people who play alot get. If they just gave everyone everything there would be no reason to continue to play. you'd have it all. Then what would the point be?



     

    There is absolutely nothing casual about PvP, period.  Your view of what is casual is quite skewed.  Please point out one single PvP focus game that is full of casual players..........  that's what I thought.

    You don't pay attention very well, do you.  Notice how MMO's reward you excessively for playing 8 hours straight, versus 8 hours over a period of time?  Casuals play just as much as you guys do, only over a period of time instead of in chunks.  You do not inherently deserver better rewards, it's only because developing companies are infested with hardcore nerds who choose to set it up that way.

    The reason to play and continue playing an MMO is because it's fun, not because you think you should get exclusive content and rewards.  Like it or not, MMO companies are finally starting to get it, slowly but surely and your play style will one day take a back seat to actual entertainment.

    I would say your view of casual is quite skewed. PvP is indeed casual in wow. Log in a BG for 20 minutes. That's casual. Log in for 4 hours of PvPing non stop, that's hardcore.You can pvp casually in warhammer. Which is what I do. Log in, do a few scenerios and log out. How is running a BG or scenerios for less than an hour not casual?

    I don't know of a single MMO that requires you play 8 hours straight. In a single session. Can you point one out? Nope. there isn't one. Nothing requires you to. Nothing rewards you for a single 8 hour play session. Most of the MMO's out there now do reward those who don't play much. But also have raids and such available for longer play sessions for those who like that. Everybody gets something for their playstyle.

    You do not have to play 8 hours straight. Most raiders play an average of 3 hours in a raid.  Hardcore people put long hours in most days of the week. Which is what defines them.

    Casuals put in a few hours a week.

    It's not defined by how many hours you put in straight. But rather how much you put in total. How obsessive about the game you are. Putting in 4 hours every single day i'd call hardcore. Though everyones definition is different. But it boils down to is casuals don't play alot, don't spend time on the forums for their game, don't therorycraft. They just log in every now and then and play for a little bit. Hardcore people spend alot of time playing the game. Grinding gear, cruising the forums, grinding rep, grinding dailies. Day after day.

    If by your definition a hardcore player puts in a single 8 hour epic gaming session one day a week and a casual puts in 8 hours as well in the same week but in smaller chunks I would say both are casual and your definition is off.Both just aren't playing that much. Hardcore's get the best of the best because they put in more hours period. And more often. And that is why they are rewarded more. They will get more than you because they can put in a 3 hour session for that raid. And they will do that many times a week. And they will farm mats for potions and enchants so they are ready for that raid. They will do their dailies so they can pay for repairs. That is what hardcore is.Not a single long play session but rather many. They run numerous 3 hour raids a week. Therefore they get more. That's fair.

    If I put in a single 8 hour day of an MMO a week it doesn't mean i'm hardcore. It means I had a day off.

    You are correct though, the reason to continue to play is because it's fun. The MMO genre does not revolve around your definition of fun though. For many getting into that exclusive content that you can only reach by having great gear only to spend hours to get even better gear, is fun for people. Not for me. But it is fun for people. Wow gives people the options to play how they wish. To do things that are fun for them. And yes, you most certainly can casually pvp. Like I said Arena matches for that week will take you an hour. That's casual. Getting a small group together to run something that takes 30minutes to an hour. That's casual. Doing all of the above all day long every day is not casual.

    I would also advise you to go back to my last post before you start talking about my play style or "you guys". It seems you don't pay attention well.

    Tribes 2 is back!!!! http://www.tribesnext.com/
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  • PersephassaPersephassa Roseville, CAPosts: 223Member

    They really need to stop announcing all this terrible news. Or are they trying to kill hype? :/

  • GeridenGeriden DublinPosts: 391Member
  • ronan32ronan32 limerickPosts: 1,418Member

    Does this mean we will have to listen to paul barnett spew lies about swtor aswell.

    Im sure he has plenty of fart joke ideas for swtor.

  • ComnitusComnitus Williamsburg, VAPosts: 2,462Member

    Thread:

    Blah blah blah, Mythic hate, blah blah blah, no one remembers how awesome DAoC was, only how bad WAR is, blah blah blah, SW:TOR is ruined, my crystal ball says so, blah, blah, blah.

    image

  • GeridenGeriden DublinPosts: 391Member
    Originally posted by ronan32


    Does this mean we will have to listen to paul barnett spew lies about swtor aswell.
    Im sure he has plenty of fart joke ideas for swtor.

     

    I can see it now  "So the sith are like angery posh emo's and the jedi are like posh english tea totlers" 

  • JetrpgJetrpg Whitehouse, OHPosts: 2,376Member

    HMM well lets see war still has better pvp than most mmos so you can't hardly go wrong there , however, the way most people talk in here you would think different. I think that is because its part of simple human nature to be bias and confuse one thing for another. Sure WAr's pvp is not wonderful, but compared to wow's pvp it looks super wonderful. Seeing as i believe they already have set in place pve strategies and goals id say mythic may help by lending workers. Artists, coders and the such, no biggy. That being said id rather see war pvp in it than wow pvp.

     

    REally WAr is a good game (no a great game why pay every mother for just a good game?), its faults lie in two areas: one, its engine and the combat system they piled on it is trash; two, they made it noobz friendly for the wow heads and it failz (see quests no epic anythign etc.)

    "Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine

  • NymandusNymandus Greenville, SCPosts: 26Member

    As previous poster's have mentioned, it all depends upon what exactly they are 'assisting' with. As both a DAoC and WAR ex-player my knee jerk reaction is to be very worried though...

  • bedolla3401bedolla3401 Highland, ILPosts: 293Member

    i think it is very funny how people is just saying oh man mythic is helping BW developing TOR, the game is dead now, LOL comon its not even beta yet.  How do you all know that its dead already, are you all freaking physic or somthing.  I mean yes you do have your opinions and etc, but wait till it comes out totally before dooming the game lol.

        Now i have played both DAOC and WAR, personally i liked DAOC more then WAR but who knows maybe it may help out more maybe not.

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