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For pete's sake, nobody gives a crap about story...

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  • NymandusNymandus Greenville, SCPosts: 26Member
    Originally posted by Netzoko


    It blows my mind how out of touch developers are with the MMO base. With literally the biggest IP in the world, their focus is NOT what gamers have hated about mmos for years. No no, they will contiune to shovel the bullshit, but will now have STORY!
    Are you kidding me? The level of absurdity is making my brain swell. People hate classes, they hate levels, they hate watered-down gameplay and grind. Does BioWare plan on address these -universal- complaints? Fuck no, to them the problem with MMOs is story? My mind is utterly blown. From forum to forum across the internet, followers are asking the same basic questions. Whats pvp like? Whats pve like? How are the classes? What is the item system like? Yet over and over, every single dev blog and release is about story. I just can't wrap my head around the unsurpassable amount of ignorance by the dev teams. You would think that seeing the failings of supposed "blockbuster" MMOs like Aoc and WAR would send a message, but no. Alas we continue to be insulted by developers who ignore the -KEY- issues people have with the genre, and instead focus on something utterly worthless.
    Newsflash jackasses, your customers arn't upset with lack of story, they are upset with the cookie cutter MMO template that money grubing bandwagoners like you continue to reiterate and expect to sell.

     

    Amen.

  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,290Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by k1klass


    Story is pretty important to me too, really looking forward to it.



     

    trouble with stories is that they are too reliant on the authors creativity, good bad or indifferent, no matter how good a story is, its not going to hold your interest after the first 'read' hell, if the story isnt all that good your probably not going to bother reading all of it, its as true for books as it is for games, it takes more than just a story to make a good game. so heres hoping that theres more to this than just a story, because if i want a story chances are i'll go visit a library.

  • RydesonRydeson Canton, OHPosts: 3,858Member Uncommon

    and I bet your library doesn't charge you $14.99 a month as well.. lol

  • FarnikFarnik Maplewood, MNPosts: 35Member

    I saw an interview that one of their other goals is to get rid of grind. Just like this entire project, I have no idea if these are just words of if they will actually follow through.

  • RhoklawRhoklaw Ft. Bliss, TXPosts: 3,486Member Uncommon

    To be honest, when it comes to text written story, I usually just skip it. To me, reading is boring, so I just dont do it. However, should this game offer a different avenue of approach. Like perhaps cinematic story that is visually stunning and sensual to my ears, then yes, I'll pay attention.

    Story isn't the issue, its the way MMO's have laid out the story that pretty much sucks. Thats another reason Aion has 2 thumbs up from me because every so often, they throw in a cinematic story video. Yes, it does make a difference, so there is hope for BioWare and SW:TOR in our MMO community.

    image

  • GhostworksGhostworks MTL, QCPosts: 20Member

     I find it hilarious when people say "reading is boring" lol.



    Anywho, you're in luck because the entire game is voice acted.

  • AlivadaAlivada NorwichPosts: 86Member

    It's a Bioware game, so I do give a crap about the story espically as it's part of the Star Wars timeline. I read the UK's PCgamer artical about the game and it looks like it's really shaping up to be a great game as I would love to see a single player quality of campaign and voice acting combined with a MMORPG world.

    Now, I hate to hype games as it just leads to disappointment but I'm really looking forward to this.

  • Vagrant_ZeroVagrant_Zero Van Nuys, CAPosts: 1,190Member


    Originally posted by Ghostworks
     I find it hilarious when people say "reading is boring" lol.Anywho, you're in luck because the entire game is voice acted.

    I'd like to know how the "reading is boring" crowd manages to post on a forum.

  • sevrynsevryn South Bend, INPosts: 3Member
    Originally posted by Netzoko


    It blows my mind how out of touch developers are with the MMO base. With literally the biggest IP in the world, their focus is NOT what gamers have hated about mmos for years. No no, they will contiune to shovel the bullshit, but will now have STORY!
    ... You would think that seeing the failings of supposed "blockbuster" MMOs like Aoc and WAR would send a message, but no. Alas we continue to be insulted by developers who ignore the -KEY- issues people have with the genre, and instead focus on something utterly worthless.
    Newsflash jackasses, your customers arn't upset with lack of story, they are upset with the cookie cutter MMO template that money grubing bandwagoners like you continue to reiterate and expect to sell.

     

     

    While I agree with your dissatisfaction about the standardized perspective of creating 'cookie-cutter' MMOs these days, and the failings, on one level or another, of virtually every MMO since SWG was dismembered in Dec. 2005, Tirades have never helped our cause. 

    If you want to invoke true change, flood the dev with real mail, letters of complaint and demands of change, en masse. Griefing on forums rarely gets 'heard' by them, let alone instilling any sense of caring - about your issue - by the powers that be.

    At this point, I would logically deduce that they 1) either do not wish to release further info about the game (info about things 'other' than story), possibly because of playability/testing factors. Or 2) They have not even made it far enough in the development stages to offer more info yet.

    All we can do is wait and see. If it sucks, it sucks. Nothing we can do to change that. I have 6 MMOs sitting on a shelf collecting dust right now. All of which were touted to be 'better' with 'more story' and 'things to do'. It was a marketing scam. Most of them have been.

    However, if this game is even an inkling better than what SWG is now, I will be happy. 

    And perhaps someday, before we all die of old age, Devs will realize that the systems they had set up in the past, for games like SWG and the first EQ, were actually better and just needed to be expanded upon.

    Perhaps we need to start a movement to stop the innundation of 'console' gaming into our precious MMO world. 

    I say "No More Dumbing Down!"

     

     

    ~Sevryn Blakk
    Elder TKM/MSw
    XFOR, StarSider, SWG

  • kopemakopema St. Louis, MOPosts: 263Member

    Has anybody seen the dozens of "gameplay" videos Bioware has released for their upcomming single-player RPG Dragon Age?  The whole game appears to be nothing but endless cutscenes.  And all the developers ever talk about is story this and story that.  As near as I can tell, they're developing an animated version of those old "Choose Your Own Adventure" books.  

    Apparently that whole company has now been taken over by unpublishable novelists.  To them, all the programming and gameplay are just there to provide a context for their backstory - instead of the other way around.

    I guess that's what they mean when they say SWTOR is "getting rid of the leveling grind."  Who cares about attaining new powers and skills, and the constant tactical changes to gameplay they provide? 

    All MMORPG players REALLY want is a grind to get to the next cutscene, right?

    ...Right?

  • Vagrant_ZeroVagrant_Zero Van Nuys, CAPosts: 1,190Member


    Originally posted by kopema
    Has anybody seen the dozens of "gameplay" videos Bioware has released for their upcomming single-player RPG Dragon Age?  The whole game appears to be nothing but endless cutscenes.  And all the developers ever talk about is story this and story that.  As near as I can tell, they're developing an animated version of those old "Choose Your Own Adventure" books.  
    Apparently that whole company has now been taken over by unpublishable novelists.  To them, all the programming and gameplay are just there to provide a context for their backstory - instead of the other way around.
    I guess that's what they mean when they say SWTOR is "getting rid of the leveling grind."  Who cares about attaining new powers and skills, and the constant tactical changes to gameplay they provide? 
    All MMORPG players REALLY want is a grind to get to the next cutscene, right?
    ...Right?

    Go play Mass Effect before yapping off.

    You armchair quarterbacks are hilarious. When will they learn that they're at their best when they're not thinking aloud.

  • jusomdudejusomdude Somewhere, KSPosts: 2,401Member

    The story is the thing I'm looking forward to the most in the game.

  • kopemakopema St. Louis, MOPosts: 263Member
    Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero
     
    Go play Mass Effect before yapping off.
    You armchair quarterbacks are hilarious. When will they learn that they're at their best when they're not thinking aloud.

     



     

    Been there, didn't do that.  The Steam version was too full of bugs.  (Oh, but don't worry, the authors promised to write an engrossing patch story back in January!)

    And, btw, "Einstein," time is linear and your thought processes clearly are not.  If as you claim, you only have the two options available to you, next time try thinking INSTEAD of talking.

     

  • sanders01sanders01 Lolwut?, ALPosts: 1,357Member

     I heard, if this thread goes on another page, the world will end.

    Currently restarting World of Warcraft :/

  • brezelbrezel You must enter the city you live in!Posts: 202Member

    in a mmorpg no one need a story... the players should create the story, you just need fantasy. the problem is, the new gaming generation dosn't have much fantasy lol. a few month ago, the kiddys discovered the word "sandbox", now they want their "world of warcraft"- pre-build world back.

    i realy don't need a storyline in a mmorpg. i always skip the dialogs and i only read the mission-goals.

     

  • ReizlaReizla AlkmaarPosts: 3,300Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by brezel


    in a mmorpg no one need a story... the players should create the story, you just need fantasy. the problem is, the new gaming generation dosn't have much fantasy lol. a few month ago, the kiddys discovered the word "sandbox", now they want their "world of warcraft"- pre-build world back.
    i realy don't need a storyline in a mmorpg. i always skip the dialogs and i only read the mission-goals.
     

     

    *wonders why RPG is in MMORPG*

    If you really skip the dialogs and go straight for the quest goals, I'd suggest you'd take a better look at the following games:

    Ether Saga online

    Jade Dynasty

    For both games you don't have to do a thing, skip the dialogs, go to the quest-log, double click on the quest and it even walks you there!

     

    /sarcasm off

    AsRock 990FX Extreme3
    AMD Phenom II 1090T ~3.2Ghz
    GEiL 16Gb DDR3 1600Mhz
    ASUS GTX970 3x HD monitor 1920x1080

  • -Zeno--Zeno- Posts: 1,298Member Common
    Originally posted by Netzoko


    It blows my mind how out of touch developers are with the MMO base. With literally the biggest IP in the world, their focus is NOT what gamers have hated about mmos for years. No no, they will contiune to shovel the bullshit, but will now have STORY!
    Are you kidding me? The level of absurdity is making my brain swell. People hate classes, they hate levels, they hate watered-down gameplay and grind. Does BioWare plan on address these -universal- complaints? Fuck no, to them the problem with MMOs is story? My mind is utterly blown. From forum to forum across the internet, followers are asking the same basic questions. Whats pvp like? Whats pve like? How are the classes? What is the item system like? Yet over and over, every single dev blog and release is about story. I just can't wrap my head around the unsurpassable amount of ignorance by the dev teams. You would think that seeing the failings of supposed "blockbuster" MMOs like Aoc and WAR would send a message, but no. Alas we continue to be insulted by developers who ignore the -KEY- issues people have with the genre, and instead focus on something utterly worthless.
    Newsflash jackasses, your customers arn't upset with lack of story, they are upset with the cookie cutter MMO template that money grubing bandwagoners like you continue to reiterate and expect to sell.

     

    I agree with you.  They are taking the theme park MMO and adding a mother and father figure to lead you around.  Hand holding taken to the next level, or galaxy.  I had high hopes for this game.  They hired Ashen Temper from Shadowbane, and now Mythic is helping (I like Mythic, I blame EA for War's failure), but finding out its heavly driven by story is the ultimate turnoff.

    The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

  • RealbigdealRealbigdeal Vimont, QCPosts: 1,625Member

    Thats what the fuck happen when too much noobs are born in this world

    I present you, the noob effect video made by pureownage.

    C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif

  • HorkathaneHorkathane San Diego, CAPosts: 380Member

    Story is very important and the more immersive in-depth the better. But, what is truly needed is something new. What is needed is player characters ability to effect the story in a way to change the non-player characters perception and involvement in the story of said player characters. I’ll explain what I mean in a min.

    So far, mmo’s have been just an elaborate form of Duck Hunt, just a bunch of flat mobs to knock over and once you got them all move onto the next scene. Even though you can put allot of story around that flat board mob with a bulls eye on its head, in the end you are just to knock it over and get some reward and move on.

    Now getting back to what I was talking about earlier. The mobs or non player characters need to REACT in story to your actions. For example; you have a mission to kill some bees to get the honey they are harvesting, along the way you find out there is a Queen bee and to take down this problem permanently you need to take her out. So you take her out, win the day the nest is gone but a few bees escape. These bees take information on those involved to other bee nests and depending on the Queen you killed alliances and status, there are measures taken against you.

    Now up to this point the only the only thing we’ve seen is a faction hit which to this day has not really impacted story at all. So, what if the bees generated a mission to take down a player character or a player characters npc base of friends, consultants even quest givers? What if these generated a quest line where diametrically opposed player characters could assist the bees in revenge against player characters and spanning off new story arcs?

    I believe this is the next level and mmos need to go there.

  • kopemakopema St. Louis, MOPosts: 263Member
    Originally posted by Delondial

    I am open to this new concept of Bioware's, but will as always be careful about getting excited. As is, I reserve judgement until I get my hands on a final copy.  



     

    That's the problem, I don't see the "new" part.  Book technology has been around for several years now.  Computer animation adds a little bit.  But it's safe to say that SWTOR won't be anywhere near as well-animated as Clone Wars, and that sucked.

  • Syno23Syno23 LA, CA, CAPosts: 1,360Member

    I care about story, it's just that I don't care about the fact that they're spending so much time on story. I think that endgame, combat, how fun the game is...then again, story is a very important part in an MMO otherwise, that is going to boring.

  • Vagrant_ZeroVagrant_Zero Van Nuys, CAPosts: 1,190Member


    Originally posted by kopema
    Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero
     
    Go play Mass Effect before yapping off.
    You armchair quarterbacks are hilarious. When will they learn that they're at their best when they're not thinking aloud.
     

     
    Been there, didn't do that.  The Steam version was too full of bugs.  (Oh, but don't worry, the authors promised to write an engrossing patch story back in January!)
    And, btw, "Einstein," time is linear and your thought processes clearly are not.  If as you claim, you only have the two options available to you, next time try thinking INSTEAD of talking.
     


    Translation: You have a crappy PC and couldn't run Mass Effect. Game ran just fine on mine and most other people's systems.


    And no "trying" doesn't count. As the green man said, Do or Do not. And until you DO keep your mouth shut.

  • GhostworksGhostworks MTL, QCPosts: 20Member

    Wow, this thread turned into a flame war right quick ;)

    A buddy of mine got lost in FFXII because he kept skipping cutscenes and had no idea what the FF was going on. We all had a laugh because he sucks at games with no story as well.

    Bottom line is SOME people care about story some don't. Most "blockbuster" movies have a story so thin that it needs to be masked by action sequences and special effects. But with no story whatsoever, then how will you be immersed in any sort of fantasy? Do you get a "vivid imagination discount" at the box office?

    There are plenty of ways to enjoy Star Wars without the story. Like the prequels, for example! The story simultaneously sucked and blew. Hell, The Force Unleashed had a decent premise, even if the story's execution was weak. It was still engaging enough that I cared to some degree what the characters' fates were. It also had gameplay, button-mashy though it might have been.

    If you want no story elements, then don't play games like this, or any standard breed RPG either. Play puzzle and sports games or multiplayer-only FPS's and stop complaining when a dev team emphasizes story. I for one welcome any effort to engross the user in the world presented to him.

     

    EDIT: Anyone else think this thread should be closed? What else is there to discuss about a book we haven't read?

     

     

     

  • BarteauxBarteaux osloPosts: 483Member
    Originally posted by Delondial


    I can see the OP's point here. I am drawn to a player driven world. Giving players control of almost every aspect (i.e economy, city conrol blah blah) is something that should in my opionon set MMOs apart from co-op RPGs. Story is secondary only because it should, in theory, be subject to what the masses are doing in the world.
     

     

    /agreed

    I'm not to keen on a pre-written story myself. I'd rather make my own.

    Nothing against some storytelling, but hundreds of hours of story won't substitute playability, crafting, player driven economy, pvp etc.

     

    "nerf rock, paper is working as intended."

    - Scissors.


    Head Chop

  • cukimungacukimunga Dacono, COPosts: 2,259Member
    Originally posted by Barteaux

    Originally posted by Delondial


    I can see the OP's point here. I am drawn to a player driven world. Giving players control of almost every aspect (i.e economy, city conrol blah blah) is something that should in my opionon set MMOs apart from co-op RPGs. Story is secondary only because it should, in theory, be subject to what the masses are doing in the world.
     

     

    /agreed

    I'm not to keen on a pre-written story myself. I'd rather make my own.

    Nothing against some storytelling, but hundreds of hours of story won't substitute playability, crafting, player driven economy, pvp etc.

    So how does one make there own story in a game? Unless they give you tools to make quests I don't see that possible.  Like for example  Im a character that is playing a farmer and I built my farm in what used to be a peaceful area. But things have changed in game and suddenly wolves have started appearing in my area.   I can't fend them off my self so I need to hire someone to kill them. So I set something up in the town bulletin board someone sees and comes to see me. They take the "quest" and complete it, I give them money now I can go back to my business, they search for some others in need of help.

     

    For a game to have real player driven story the world has to change in real time, weather has to effect things, AI has to be smart and migrate,reproduce and get over populated or get underpopulated. Players have to need things and offer services so you have to be only one class or job, you cant be a monster hunter and a crafter  at the same time but you can change jobs whenever. 

    There are a lot of things that need to happen for a game to be completely player ran. I sure as hell wouldn't want to play a farmer, I would want to be an adventurer roaming around the world sleeping where I can and killing things. But if people want to do that then thats cool with me, the game needs people that want to do that sort of thing.

     

    Don't get me wrong, I would love to see a game like this but there are so many variables that come in to factor it would make it really hard to make.  I guess games like Entropia and 2nd life are close to a player driven story because basicly just like living in the real world. But we have no games like this in the Fantasy settings, at least I haven't heard of any.

     

     

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