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Anyone considering EQ inside quote from EQ Dev
Dev-Ngreth wrote:
And in the end, though cool looking, Marketplace Ornamentation's are "common" and anyone can get it. The raids stuff will be "unique" I put unique in quotes because multiple raid weapons *may* share graphics (may not... depends how it goes) but you will still be able to say "hey, this came from a Raid" while you see someone with an Army of Light ornamentation, you get to say "Hey, he spent real cash." Not as distinctive.
The current intent is future use. That said, I *may* make changes. They do not though explicit fit the "tower" theme, so... are not necessarily going to change them.
And for the people asking "What about us that are paying the monthly fee"
Well, for one thing, the people buying these ornaments are ALSO paying that monthly fee, and they are paying extra for a luxury piece.
Above is a quote from the Dev-Ngreth of EQ talking about the virtual items for real life cash in a subscription based game EQ. Many people are upset about it, as understandble considering you can play LOTRO right now for the same subscription price and get nice looking items for only paying the sub fee.
The quote above is just ridiculous. If you play EQ you now have to pay for better graphics which I have to mention EQs graphics are horrible and mixmatched now to begin with. You would be doing yourself a favor if you played a new game like LOTRO where all graphics are included with your sub fee, the game has much newer graphics anyhow and still makes sense unlike EQs lore. EQ is a broken horrible game. As a past customer that is unhappy with the greed, the crappy expansion after expansion was thrown at the game and now the milking of every last penny from the last subscribers .. I would like to warn people considering this game.
You can't get straight information on the EQ boards they are heavily regulated. The mods WILL remove whatever makes the game look bad even if it isn't against the forum rules.
Comments
Are you gnome that used to post in the newbie zone on eq's forum?
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I don't really know what's going on with EQ anymore and I don't really care. But I will say this; SOE alienated all of their players except for the hardcore raiders. If they have now found a way to also alienate the raiders then it really will be the end of EQ because that's about all they have left.
My guess is you left around POP expansion where raiders got the spotlight. Well I'll be happy to tell you that the last expansion opened up more possibilities for casual gamers and regular core gamers like me, with the introduction of mercenaries and ability to solo progress, as well as more single group content throughout the past few years while I was playing other games.
So while I know you don't care what's going on with EQ, I just thought to respond to your comment regarding SOE alienating players and catering to the hardcore raiders. That's no longer the case. I have to say I agree catering to raiders was one of the worst things they could've done. I myself left the game in 2004, because without a raid guild I couldn't do much. That's just not the case today, and I'm pretty happy to be playing the game and having fun.
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To be honest I would pay extra money in LOTRO to get better looking items.
I've never had an issue with paying for cosmetic items simply because I look at it as funding the extra work that artists are asked to do to make the items.
I think sometimes players need to be reminded that the standard per month fee for these games hasn't gone up in years but the costs of doing business, payroll, insurance, rent, equipment, etc have gone up.
Finding alternate ways to fund their develpment efforts seem to me to be a good thing.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
To be honest I would pay extra money in LOTRO to get better than raid items.
I've never had an issue with paying for better than raid items simply because I look at it as funding the extra work that Developers are asked to do to make the super powered items.
I think sometimes players need to be reminded that the standard per month fee for these games hasn't gone up in years but the costs of doing business, payroll, insurance, rent, equipment, etc have gone up.
Finding alternate ways to fund their develpment efforts seem to me to be a good thing, selling gear is just a way of doing business. So only the rich have the very best, reminds you of RL doesn't it?
THERE; I FIXED YOUR POST FOR YOU
That would be the case *IF* what you can buy is the "very best". On the contrary, what you can buy from station cash is not the very best, they are cosmetic in nature and gives you the *option* to change old graphics into something different. MMO's don't upgrade old weapons/armor, they leave them be and create new ones for expansions and new content. What you can buy from station cash simply gives you the option to change the looks of old weapons.
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That would be the case *IF* what you can buy is the "very best". On the contrary, what you can buy from station cash is not the very best, they are cosmetic in nature and gives you the *option* to change old graphics into something different. MMO's don't upgrade old weapons/armor, they leave them be and create new ones for expansions and new content. What you can buy from station cash simply gives you the option to change the looks of old weapons.
Yeah pretty, much. I think the OP is pursuing his EQ hate a bit too much, but I suppose its his time, so meh. I mean i can understand being a disgruntled customer, but going after SC kinda seems fruitless. As I explained before in another post to him. Its pretty much the same as charging money for expansions and adventure packs. (ex: in an expansion/Adventure pack you pay to advance your character be it new levels, AAs, or equips.) The OP seems to have got the idea that SOE offers better armor in their SC shop and hes peeved because he cant get it or doesnt want to pay the extra money for it er somethin?
I say this to anyone who is as torn up about it as the OP "If you are such a hardcore player of EQ/EQ2 that you want the *best stuff* an extra $10 that month isnt going to break your balls. Also if you are a more casual player and upset about not having what you call "the best gear" that doesnt make sense, if you are casual you will never have the best gear anyway and it obviously doesnt matter to you or you just dont have the time."
I think the OP would have a legit argument if the best armor and equips in the game was bought with SC then I would be just as outraged and probably flip SOE the bird and leave the game till they took it out. As it stands now in EQ2 the armor you can buy with SC doesnt even have stats its just appearance armor for your apearance slots to make you look cool. Besides Ive seen MUCH cooler looking armor in the game than what you can buy with SC. I mean sure the white and gold plate looks awesome on a pally but there are high level pally armors that are much more detailed and better looking and you can also buy 2 sets of just as cool looking plate armor with SP from city merchants in Qeynos. In closing i'll say there is a rather small part of me that does understand where the OP is comming from, but the logical part of my brain shuts it down everytime it talks. Anyway, goodluck on your crusade OP. I think ive gotten kinda tired of repeating myself. :P
That would be the case *IF* what you can buy is the "very best". On the contrary, what you can buy from station cash is not the very best, they are cosmetic in nature and gives you the *option* to change old graphics into something different. MMO's don't upgrade old weapons/armor, they leave them be and create new ones for expansions and new content. What you can buy from station cash simply gives you the option to change the looks of old weapons.
Yeah pretty, much. I think the OP is pursuing his EQ hate a bit too much, but I suppose its his time, so meh. I mean i can understand being a disgruntled customer, but going after SC kinda seems fruitless. As I explained before in another post to him. Its pretty much the same as charging money for expansions and adventure packs. (ex: in an expansion/Adventure pack you pay to advance your character be it new levels, AAs, or equips.) The OP seems to have got the idea that SOE offers better armor in their SC shop and hes peeved because he cant get it or doesnt want to pay the extra money for it er somethin?
I say this to anyone who is as torn up about it as the OP "If you are such a hardcore player of EQ/EQ2 that you want the *best stuff* an extra $10 that month isnt going to break your balls. Also if you are a more casual player and upset about not having what you call "the best gear" that doesnt make sense, if you are casual you will never have the best gear anyway and it obviously doesnt matter to you or you just dont have the time."
I think the OP would have a legit argument if the best armor and equips in the game was bought with SC then I would be just as outraged and probably flip SOE the bird and leave the game till they took it out. As it stands now in EQ2 the armor you can buy with SC doesnt even have stats its just appearance armor for your apearance slots to make you look cool. Besides Ive seen MUCH cooler looking armor in the game than what you can buy with SC. I mean sure the white and gold plate looks awesome on a pally but there are high level pally armors that are much more detailed and better looking and you can also buy 2 sets of just as cool looking plate armor with SP from city merchants in Qeynos. In closing i'll say there is a rather small part of me that does understand where the OP is comming from, but the logical part of my brain shuts it down everytime it talks. Anyway, goodluck on your crusade OP. I think ive gotten kinda tired of repeating myself. :P
It wouldn't call it a crusade, more than a dissatisfied customer stating their complaints. Also we have different view points all together on the item shop issue but you assumed too much about my reasons to why I dislike them. To me it is greed. I will go to other games where there are not item shops + expansion/game cost + sub fee.
I am not against item shops all together, that is a fine way to fund a game. But the beef is SOE is the only company taking advantage of EVERY business model for one game. If the game was free I wouldn't even be posting this, you have to fund a game somehow. No other MMO is doing what SOE is doing right now. LOTRO is sub based + expansion/game cost and you get all the game. I will go to the competition.
You have to remember the people who purchased EQ, purchased it with the knowledge it was a sub based game, there was no mention of an item shop business model. I just have the right as a customer to warn others about my experience a customer.
That would be the case *IF* what you can buy is the "very best". On the contrary, what you can buy from station cash is not the very best, they are cosmetic in nature and gives you the *option* to change old graphics into something different. MMO's don't upgrade old weapons/armor, they leave them be and create new ones for expansions and new content. What you can buy from station cash simply gives you the option to change the looks of old weapons.
Yeah pretty, much. I think the OP is pursuing his EQ hate a bit too much, but I suppose its his time, so meh. I mean i can understand being a disgruntled customer, but going after SC kinda seems fruitless. As I explained before in another post to him. Its pretty much the same as charging money for expansions and adventure packs. (ex: in an expansion/Adventure pack you pay to advance your character be it new levels, AAs, or equips.) The OP seems to have got the idea that SOE offers better armor in their SC shop and hes peeved because he cant get it or doesnt want to pay the extra money for it er somethin?
I say this to anyone who is as torn up about it as the OP "If you are such a hardcore player of EQ/EQ2 that you want the *best stuff* an extra $10 that month isnt going to break your balls. Also if you are a more casual player and upset about not having what you call "the best gear" that doesnt make sense, if you are casual you will never have the best gear anyway and it obviously doesnt matter to you or you just dont have the time."
I think the OP would have a legit argument if the best armor and equips in the game was bought with SC then I would be just as outraged and probably flip SOE the bird and leave the game till they took it out. As it stands now in EQ2 the armor you can buy with SC doesnt even have stats its just appearance armor for your apearance slots to make you look cool. Besides Ive seen MUCH cooler looking armor in the game than what you can buy with SC. I mean sure the white and gold plate looks awesome on a pally but there are high level pally armors that are much more detailed and better looking and you can also buy 2 sets of just as cool looking plate armor with SP from city merchants in Qeynos. In closing i'll say there is a rather small part of me that does understand where the OP is comming from, but the logical part of my brain shuts it down everytime it talks. Anyway, goodluck on your crusade OP. I think ive gotten kinda tired of repeating myself. :P
It wouldn't call it a crusade, more than a dissatisfied customer stating their complaints. Also we have different view points all together on the item shop issue but you assumed too much about my reasons to why I dislike them. To me it is greed. I will go to other games where there are not item shops + expansion/game cost + sub fee.
I am not against item shops all together, that is a fine way to fund a game. But the beef is SOE is the only company taking advantage of EVERY business model for one game. If the game was free I wouldn't even be posting this, you have to fund a game somehow. No other MMO is doing what SOE is doing right now. LOTRO is sub based + expansion/game cost and you get all the game. I will go to the competition.
You have to remember the people who purchased EQ, purchased it with the knowledge it was a sub based game, there was no mention of an item shop business model. I just have the right as a customer to warn others about my experience a customer.
I see your point that items in game should be able get in game not bought with real cash right ?
But lots of games do this even your choosen LoTR with this
Free In-game Item from MOG!
A secret access code inside the latest issue of Massive Online Gamer #16 magazine, available on newsstands beginning this week, will provide all readers with a limited edition in-game item called the “Cloak of the Cold Well.” Can't wait for the magazine? The first 1000 people to subscribe to Massive Online Gamer will receive a unique LOTRO code via email that can be redeemed for the in-game item!
Here you must buy the mag. or susribe to the MoG and that cost money , either way LoTR will get a bit of the action. may not be in game store but it still requires you to pay cash for something i can not get in game by questing of working hard. So it looks like it is everywhere. Sony just went the extra step and made it easy to get shinies..
You are right and I am not particularly happy with those items given like that as well. I would like to discuss that as well at some point. Thanks for the information.
lol dont get me wrong i'm not crusading after you either. I actually just enjoy debating this to a degree. To some small degree I see what you are saying. I think there needs to be people like you who disagree with this kinda stuff so it doesnt get out of hand. At the same time I think your case is incredibly weak on this issue because of the level of near worthlessness of some of the items they offer. Meaning i'm ok with this system as long as it doesnt get out of hand and they start offering some of the best items in game for money. At that point you will have a strong ally in this fight. Hell dude we will go start some online petitions. Till then the only thing you have on your side is that you feel its greedy because SOE now has an extra way to make money aside from expansions (although nobody is making you buy these items nor are there any "need" for them in game, perhaps a "want" but not a need). Peace
The thing is there are good looking weapons in the game, as showing in this thread on soe's forum:
forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m
Of course, in that thread people realize there are good looking weapons, but many of the good models have already been used in older content. Gotta remember, EQ1 is a 10 year old game with 15 expansions. Each and every expansions they've added new weapon & item models. It isn't like they are not adding anything new, contrary to what some are claiming.
It would be a valid complaint against station cash ornamentations if there are no new weapons or good looking models ingame already. But it's quite another to know there are many many good looking items already ingame, and they do add many new ones each and every expansion.
In that thread people are simply asking for some of the good looking weapons to resurface and be used in newer weapons. Part of the problem is that many good looking weapon models are used on weapons that people don't use much anymore. I do hope they could somehow reshuffle and use some of the good looking models on newer weapons. If they could do that, I wouldn't have any issues with station cash ornamentations, because I do like the flexibility and option to change the looks of my weapons when I want to.
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There are better alternatives of ways to add these items instead of an item shop. I will not play a game with RMT in it let alone a game already that has a subcription fee. If I am purchasing game content it best be playable. I view RMT as greed especially on top of the subscription model. Also by definition RMT is the opposite of gameplay. You are bypassing gameplay by swiping a credit card to obtain items. I would pay for content such as mini dungeons packs or booster packs where you actually play to obtain some new cosmetic items. That would be fine to me because they are selling game content. By adding items via RMT they have realized they can make money without having to produce actually game content and just hand out the digital items. The experience obtaining the item is what I am after, that is why I play games.
But but... LOTR Online has RMT and you play it don't you? Getting items based on magazine subscription is RMT lol.
Also keep getting mad but come back and tell me later when you see many MMO's that allow you to change the looks of old weapons. Until then, many people view station cash ornamentations as a good thing because it gives them the option & flexibility to change the looks of age old weapons they may have.
p.s. you do have to HAVE the item in hand before you could apply an ornamentation, so you won't miss that "experience obtaining the item", trust me
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As I explained before in another post to him. Its pretty much the same as charging money for expansions and adventure packs. (ex: in an expansion/Adventure pack you pay to advance your character be it new levels, AAs, or equips.)
No. No it isnt. Your basic thinking is flawed.
Expansion packs expand the game by offering you (ideally) the potentiol to experience new content, situations, environments, and lore, and demand you (ideally) play through that new content, meet it's challenges, develop your knowledge and skills, invest the time, and share in the glory and shame as you crack it open.
This is Play to Achieve gaming.
SC items simply allow you to upgrade your character via your CC.
This is Pay to Achieve gaming.
They are not the same at all.
But but... LOTR Online has RMT and you play it don't you? Getting items based on magazine subscription is RMT lol.
Also keep getting mad but come back and tell me later when you see many MMO's that allow you to change the looks of old weapons. Until then, many people view station cash ornamentations as a good thing because it gives them the option & flexibility to change the looks of age old weapons they may have.
p.s. you do have to HAVE the item in hand before you could apply an ornamentation, so you won't miss that "experience obtaining the item", trust me
This is the saving grace and why i won't bitch about this particular bit of RMT.
If it requires you to already have earned the weapon normally through gameplay and is only adding a different "skin" with no bonus attributes, then it is perfectly acceptable form of RMT.
Much different from going to the item shop and buying the actual "Sword of Uber Damage +20", which would be the totally unacceptable form of RMT.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
But but... LOTR Online has RMT and you play it don't you? Getting items based on magazine subscription is RMT lol.
Also keep getting mad but come back and tell me later when you see many MMO's that allow you to change the looks of old weapons. Until then, many people view station cash ornamentations as a good thing because it gives them the option & flexibility to change the looks of age old weapons they may have.
p.s. you do have to HAVE the item in hand before you could apply an ornamentation, so you won't miss that "experience obtaining the item", trust me
I am not angry. I know it is hard to judge emotions over the internet so it is understandable if you thought I was. In a sub based game I feel you should have rights to ALL items that are in game even ornamental ones. If they want to add ornamental items, fine. Sell the players some adventure packs that put in some new content you PLAY through to get them. I will not however pay for absolutely no content and just some digital item. Even worse when your player base is already paying 15/month to enjoy the entire game, including all items.
I see SOEs move just a sleazy way of not having to make content and still make money on top of a sub price that I might mention is the same as all newer MMOs. To play EQ now and support this I could never do it. Obtaining items through gameplay is what EQ has been always about. It is shameful that SOE now has ornamental items in game to be obtained by swiping a credit card. I don't think any other game has to charge their players to update graphics in their games item by item. It is included in free content updates or via expansions.
World of Warcraft is given their druid's the option of changing skin colors and updated some of the outdated models to look much better. http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/underdev/druid-forms.html Just some extra "fluff" for free.
Pretty neat huh? That is going in the game for free. If this was Everquest thos new cat form skins would probably be added via the cash shop where you can purchase each one for $10/each. That is why the RMT added to P2P MMOs is bad. If companies like SOE add item shops to their games, content you would have gotten via a free content patch or part of the expansion packs is now sold to you for the low price of 19.99 or whatever the amount may be. I would like to add in the past when EQ didn't have item shops they maybe would have been more likely to make those ornamental items drop in dungeons etc.
Don't support SOEs greed. Move to games that provide you your fluff included in your sub price.
I understand how you feel about the Station Cash shop, even if I don't actually care one way or the other about it. I think a cash shop on top of the regular subscription is cheesy, but apparently some people are buying from it. I thought that it was a nice way for them to raise money for charity when they did their Child's Play drive (even if the EQ1 item wasn't as nice as the EQ2 item, IMO), but otherwise... meh.
Fluff is only cool if you went out of your way to get it. Bought items, to me, aren't fluff. They are cheese. If people want to walk around with a sign on that says, "I have more money than sense," they are welcome to it.
Some ornamentations, FWIW, are available in game as well. There were some pretty neat shield ornamentations in SoF, but I kept spending the alternate currency from missions on things that actually *do* something...
...
This is where I draw the line: __________________.
Thank you for acknowledging my argument and being very civil with yours. I too respect how you feel about this topic. I guess you are right it will come down to if a person can accept these in their games or if a person can not. Well written, thanks for responding. : D
If it gave someone an advantage or affected gameplay in some way i would agree that it was unjust but ive looked at what is available and nothing does. If it bothers you so much, dont buy the stuff. But from what ive seen most of the people complaining about it do not play EQ or EQ2 anyway.
The Child's Play bear in EQ2 was the only Station Cash item I ever bought.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
I was very dishearted/sadend an angered about the cash shop being implemnted.many in my guild pointed out its no difrent than the plat salers or legends of norath loot items .the 50% xp poitions for 10 bucks for 2 hours is a big draw during double xp events since they stack.Hint soe should have more double xp events.
games just what it is .from multi boxers to plat salers cheeting raid guilds an a few public corupt gms scandels over the years cash shop fits .$oe is just trying to get their share of the cash people have made off the game .sadley games not a corpse but they keep driving it to ground .
an yet theirs stil fun in the game for me still.if looked as a race the cash shop would be a edge for sure .an in way eq became a race for the raiders to be "finished" an they win.same people the devs catered to drove out the casual player ( the big draw of wow is casual for many ) if cash shop keeps eq going it actualy doesnt afect my game.
mmo's are about perspective your game is not always my game in the same mmo.An in eq less you harass train etc you dont afect my game with you takeing a 50% xp poiton .just be thinking wow 10 bucks down the drain.
eq stil has life in it.inspite of $oe
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." Robert E. Howard, The Tower of the Elephant (1933)
That's not a fair comparison, I'm sorry LOL. Druid form is a spell/ability, they are upgrading the skins of the same abilities druids have had for a long time. You are aware that EQ already upgraded the skins of character models ingame before right? With Luclin, yes you had to pay for the expansion, but new skin models were just added fluff to an existing huge expansion.
That's like SOE upgrading the skeleton models ingame, where necro pets got many new different models. Remember when spectres got a model upgrade? It applied to characters as well, so when I went lich form, I turned into the new spec skin. I didn't have to pay for them, I bought these spells and they are great fluff ingame that I didn't have to pay extra cash for. Again, EQ already did this before, this is nothing like comparing to station cash ornamentations to changing weapon/shield graphics.
You're nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking. By the way, your beloved Turbine is going the way of RMT in a big way:
content.turbine.com/pages/www.ddo.com/beta_signup/index.php
Don't think it'll be long before RMT makes its way into AC1 & LOTR Online.
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