Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Counter argument to: Is RMT Inevitable? (Buying items the anti-game)
qombi
Member UncommonPosts: 1,170
I hope some read this and step back and think about what games are and how buying items goes against everything I game is meant to be. It is hard to believe a writer for a game site would agree with the practice of RMT considering the journey to the items in games is the game itself. Take this away and you are left with only items and no game.
I will not play a game that sells item for cash because that just ruins the game for me. I buy games to play them not swipe my credit card to obtain items. The item isn't what I am ultimately after. Obtaining the item is what the game is about and you will never get the same satisfaction having the item unless you did so.
Actually if you think about these companies are cheating you with RMT and you are letting them get away with it. Think about it for a moment. What makes a video game a video game? Gameplay. You judge a video game on whether or not the content is fun. Have you ever went to the store and bought a new video game based on what digital items were in it? You probably did not. Now would you feel cheated if you purchased this new game/expansion at the store and got home there wasn't any game to it, no content you could play. What you got was some digital items, without any gameplay. Does that sound fun? With RMT that is exactly what you are allowing game companies to do. Sell you video game without the actually video game. You are not getting the game experience you are only getting the end result the item. Getting an item via a credit card does not make a game. The game is the content.
If they want me to purchase video game content, I best be getting some game. If they need extra money they need to sell little small booster packs of small chunks of content that RESULTS in getting the items be it cosmetic etc. I am not interested in swiping my card for some digital item, I want the experience of getting that item. They really should be ashamed to sell items without any game to it. That is some poor gameplay and isn't worth your time. I would pay five - ten dollars for a new little dungeon but I will not pay for a digital decoration for my sword (Looking at you Everquest) via swiping my credit card with no game along with it. I will say it again digital items do not make a game, content does that you can PLAY. If I got that decoration for rewards in a new small dungeon I would gladly except mini expansion packs.
Comments
A month ago, I bought a neat hat for my character in Florensia for about five dollars. It looks cool and it gives me some bonus HP. I think I'm going to buy the guild robe this month. I enjoy being able to pick up little extras here and there either for looks or bonuses.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
If you are paying 15 dollars a month, you are paying for in game content.
It is the exact same thing, except with RMT you can choose more specifically where your money goes. It's not the "anti-game."
Beau
Listen to the Spouse Aggro podcast at spouseaggro.com. Twitter: spouseaggro
There is good RMT, acceptable RMT, and terrible RMT. The majority (if not all, I can't think of a single one that doesn't) of F2P games use terrible RMT. Some P2P games use good RMT such as WoW's character customization change (where you can switch the hair, face, and gender of your character). This doesn't mean good RMT can't exist and you shouldn't boycott it just yet. I would love a company to try good (or maybe good + acceptable RMT) instead of throwing in a bunch of terrible RMT items. I made a reply similar to the OP's agrument on a previous post citing some examples of good RMT and terrible but here's a quick summary:
Good RMT = Cosmetic items with no effect on gameplay including pets, costumes as well as minigames that have no effect on gameplay like trading card games. Anything that has very little or no effect on gameplay.
Acceptable RMT = Cosmetic items with minor stat boosts and items that make travel more convenient (to a certain extent). Anything that only has a minor effect on gameplay and shouldn't cause unbalance.
Terrible RMT = Most of what is offered in current F2P shops: premium content, actual equipment that cannot be obtained elsewhere, item upgrading, combat pets, EXP potions, wealth potions, etc. Anything that causes any type of unbalance.
So @OP, do you think it would be a bad thing if Good RMT was used exclusively in a MMO? Would you be willing to buy items from an item shop if it exclusively used Good RMT?
Exactlly with the sub fee you are paying for ALL the content but if the devs are needing money they need to release it in booster packs with some gamplay to get the items. RMT isn't no way similar to gameplay. Games are the gameplay. RMT is not the exact same thing as 15/month sub fee. The sub fee allows you to access the game content where you PLAY the game, items are just the icing after you had your fun gaming. RMT has no gameplay to it. You are swiping a credit card for a digital item.
Obtaining items without playing the game = anti-game How is that not correct? You are doing the opposite from playing which is what a game is to obtain the item? You are swiping a credit card.
Now, me personally I buy games to play them. I enjoy fun game mechanics and the challenges they bring. It is a fun diversion, which is what games are. The items are neat but the truly fun came from obtaining the items. I wouldn't buy a chess game and pay someone to play it. I wouldn't buy a model car and pay someone to put it together. I wouldn't play football and instead of playing just purchase the trophy.
I find RMT acceptable for things that are not related to the gameplay or game content. Some examples; name chanage, server transfer, account merges, maybe even gender/race changes.
I feel if it is an item it should be obtainable by gameplay, even if that item is cosmetic. I actually think some rewards in game should be cosmetic only (stats get crazy on alot of MMOs today). If they want extra money, I would pay for a small dungeon to get new costumes etc. I will pay for gameplay additions even if they are small ones. I do think buying items goes against all what games are suppose to be.
The OP voices my own concerns, I am happy with Magnums 'good' RMP but thats it, nothing else. Obtaining items is part of why we play, don't take that away from us.
RMT is something I don't like at all, especially on p2p games. I don't mind paying for server changes or name changes. But experience potions, mounts and anything that raises your stats is just not on. I might of well go and buy from a gold seller or pay for an account, in my view theres no difference. [EDIT] This is probably cheaper as well since gold sellers also sell items on request.
RMT is beyond horribal. here are the reasons why:
1, Gives unfair advantage to people who have more IRL cash
2, Gives a fast lane for people who dosent actually have time to play. they can become as good as those who spend hours grinding for thier gear.
3, Takes away the statisfaction that comes from accomplishing things.
4, Works best on kidds, who often are impatient, impulsive and lack the willpower to resist the temptation.
5, Makes weak people spend to mush money ( that they should have spent on more inportant things) many could in the end become in debt. As they spend thier last penny on virtual items.
6, Have a high risk of making people lose controll of how mush they spend a month, If you have a monthly fee, you know exacly how mush you will pay.
7, Its just one step above selling ingame money for IRL cash, honestly, the lines become blured when 0 and 1 become worth money.
A general Boycott off all RMT transaction games is a needed stand that we as a gameing comunity should do, towards the devs that think they can push this shit on us.
This is captialism at its worst.....
Wrong.
If everyone is paying a sub, then everyone has equal access to the content. If you have more time to play, you see the content faster. But you are getting no more content than the guy who can only play a couple hours s week.
However with RMT, you have more money than me, so you can be uber while I work for it. You are not putting in the same effort as I am. You are not playing the game as I am. You are buying your way through the game. So why even call yourself a player? You're not playing shit.
As for your next obvious cry of "I can't play as long as you! But I should have the item you have regardless!!", no you shouldn't. I did the same amount of work that you will have to do, I just had more time so I did it faster. If you're a casual player and cannot handle the fact it will take you longer to keep up with me, then perhaps you should move on to another game. Obviously mmorpgs aren't designed for you. And any type of competitive game is definitely not for you. You are only competitive on an even field. You are a cheating loser when you have to have the field in your advantage.
So yes, when it comes to mmoRPGS, RMT is the "ant-game". And people like yourself are just another of the main causes this genre has gone to shit.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Since we have to, you know, pay bills and such and you know, be responsible adults I'd much prefer the standard payment model of $15/month, which is affordable and allows me to be competitive with other players. I can't afford to spend $50+ on virtual items to play a game or to play at an advanced rate. I can afford to spend an extra hour or two here or there and get those items of which I have access to with my $15/month subscription.
The solution, in my opinion, is to offer both servers if a company is just hell bent on RMT. It's either that or hope the handful of "big spenders" you get cancels out the lost revenue of those who will only pay a monthly sub to play.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
/signed
Totally agree. One of the main reasons rpg's appeal to me is the fun of improving my skills, stats and items. The "progress" idea. Which is a very basic human aim. I won't experience any satisfaction if my progress is based on my credit card, rather than hard ingame work, persistance and a little luck. Also my CHARACTER has to earn his rewards with things I make him/her do in game. In that sense RMT is a big infraction to the "RPG" part in "MMORPG"
"Then don't pay for items, lolz"
Well, I will never feel the satisfaction of getting a slight edge over my oponent because of all the effort which was involved in achieving my great set of vanilla gear because my oponent might wear even better stuff and just payed a little RL cash for it.
The bottom line; an mmorpg which is competative should be without RMT or ingame goldsellers; everyone should have the same chance on being successful in game to make sure that player skill, intelligence, perseverance, social skills and tactics will rightfully be the decisive factors in such a competitive environment. Bankrolls shouldn't be a factor other then being able to pay for subs.
Personally I have plenty of cash so having limited funds is not something which influenced my opinion on this.
My brand new bloggity blog.
Zoom, his point just flew over your head. Maybe you should sit down, read and think before commenting.
There are a lot of us who enjoy playing a game where getting items, status, skills, etc. requires some work. The thought that someone else can whip out a credit card and purchase it pretty much mocks all that effort. That is the reason that RMT will be a success for the "I want it now" generation, but will fail with the rest of us.
Which is how some item malls are, but not all. Actually, the MMOs where that is the situation are a rather small percentage of the F2P market. You and the OP seem to be looking at an implementation of it that you don't care for, and dismissing all psosibilities based on your personal dislike for one particular model.
I keep my Wife's account stocked with cash in the marketplace so that whenever she wants to buy a pet for her house or a new cosmetic suit, she can. That makes the game fun for her and doesn't affect any gameplay. Now, in a game like Voyage Century, which presents the scenario that both you and the OP have issue with, I agree with the two of you as far as it being something I don't care for, HOWEVER... I'm not about to condemn a playstyle that I don't care for since it is entirely a matter of personal preference. I just don't play MMOs with that feature.
If buying your way through a game is the intended design of the game and a legitimate feature of it, where is the problem? If it's not your cup of tea, don't play it, but to condemn the game or the people that enjoy it seems excessive.
Think of it this way - it takes the people that want to buy their way through a game a legitimate place to do it, which means there's less of a chance they will be illegally doing it in the game you're playing.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
I think almost everyone here agrees that the more types of games that exist the better it is because players can choose what they like to play. You might not like my game, I might not like yours, but taking away your game doesn't help mine, and vice a versa.
So if people enjoy RMT games, good for them.
However, this example is what destroys the game for me. The fact that you can pay five bucks for the hat makes the hat worthless to me, and then the game lose all it's fun.
I have five bucks. I CAN buy the hat. But I want to play a game where I CANNOT buy the hat, but I have to do something in the game ot get it.
If I cannot buy the hat, then it has meaning for me. I did x,y, and z in the game to get the hat. I did quests, grinded mobs, traded for it, crafted it, SOMETHING.
What if I can still do those things to get the hat? Well, I'm not going to if I can pay five bucks. It then seems pointless, because like I said, I have five bucks.
For me, it kind of feels like, I'll give you a trophy if you run around the track 10 times. But if you just want to run around the track once, I'll still give you the trophy. Who's going to run around the track 10 times with that deal? I mean you COULD still run around the track all ten times, but why?
If you're looking for a race with 10 laps, this isn't going to cut it for you, just becuase you CAN run around the track more if you decide to.
If you want a game where you earn all items in game, it doesn't really cut it if you CAN earn the items, but you don't have to.
why are you guys ONLY concentrating on buying items?
yes we all know its unfair to those who are to poor and really shouldn't be playing the game if they are living on the edge like that.
but think about this for a second; im doing this with my game company as a proof of fact and example:
1q) the company sells a cap amount of in game currency to each player which then buys in game cosmetic changes if they want.. doesn't really matter.
1a) if the company didn't provide the SAFE/ SECURE/ MONITORED session... who you going to turn to? The farmers out there and spend money away from the game your paying for gold/credits that may not be legit.. or get them at all.
2) OMG if you allow company based gold/credit selling everything is going to become more expensive for the regular who cant do a few quests in 20 minutes for extra change.
2a) Market caps//Monitoring conflicts and currency exchanges/ explanation: market cap = having a simple algorithm built system to keep the market cap money to buy each and every item within a respectable limit... what does this in turn do? allows those who bought gold to spread the wealth to the rest of the players VIA buying MORE items rather than causing inflation.
monitoring exchanges; check ip logs and if that ip or that gold goes to the same account via a different one en masses.. block it and return to sender. easy peasy automated process.
3) why do that? [remember im not advocating buying items directly.. just currency and various markets explained below]
3a) who would you rather trust more so and be helping the most in your experience?
the company who owns everything and is improving the game on a daily basis that your being entertained by.
or the gold farmer who social engineered/hacked someones else' account because of the demanding things in his/her country? gold farmers spamming all the high value locations so you cant get what you need done . done.
now answer me this; would you rather have the possible chance of a thief ruining someones day and inturn ruining the game because the company has to set aside resources to find and ban all perpatraitors to the rule breaking?
or have the company who has the option to buy sell trade accounts in a safe area 100% guaranteed no scamming by any parties, safe secure gold/credit transactions with a system that checks and balances the game for everyone else to ensure the buyer doesn't gain a advantageously large lead over everyone else?
gold buying if dealt with correctly very well is an acceptable form of RMT after all its THEIR game experience and they are BUYING everyone else' wares in game so its spreading the wealth even more so in a sense is really helping others.
if you buy from the company directly that in turn helps you, helps the community through wealth spread oh and dont forget ,, helps the game company itself by having that extra income for improvement to the game itself which is a non ending circle for everyone.
take a different perspective rather than the norm.
Which is how some item malls are, but not all. Actually, the MMOs where that is the situation are a rather small percentage of the F2P market. You and the OP seem to be looking at an implementation of it that you don't care for, and dismissing all psosibilities based on your personal dislike for one particular model.
I keep my Wife's account stocked with cash in the marketplace so that whenever she wants to buy a pet for her house or a new cosmetic suit, she can. That makes the game fun for her and doesn't affect any gameplay. Now, in a game like Voyage Century, which presents the scenario that both you and the OP have issue with, I agree with the two of you as far as it being something I don't care for, HOWEVER... I'm not about to condemn a playstyle that I don't care for since it is entirely a matter of personal preference. I just don't play MMOs with that feature.
If buying your way through a game is the intended design of the game and a legitimate feature of it, where is the problem? If it's not your cup of tea, don't play it, but to condemn the game or the people that enjoy it seems excessive.
Think of it this way - it takes the people that want to buy their way through a game a legitimate place to do it, which means there's less of a chance they will be illegally doing it in the game you're playing.
I see your point. But this creates a two classes of players, one who buys his way through the game and the other who works his way through the game. Where is the fairness in that?
Which is how some item malls are, but not all. Actually, the MMOs where that is the situation are a rather small percentage of the F2P market. You and the OP seem to be looking at an implementation of it that you don't care for, and dismissing all psosibilities based on your personal dislike for one particular model.
I keep my Wife's account stocked with cash in the marketplace so that whenever she wants to buy a pet for her house or a new cosmetic suit, she can. That makes the game fun for her and doesn't affect any gameplay. Now, in a game like Voyage Century, which presents the scenario that both you and the OP have issue with, I agree with the two of you as far as it being something I don't care for, HOWEVER... I'm not about to condemn a playstyle that I don't care for since it is entirely a matter of personal preference. I just don't play MMOs with that feature.
If buying your way through a game is the intended design of the game and a legitimate feature of it, where is the problem? If it's not your cup of tea, don't play it, but to condemn the game or the people that enjoy it seems excessive.
Think of it this way - it takes the people that want to buy their way through a game a legitimate place to do it, which means there's less of a chance they will be illegally doing it in the game you're playing.
My point is that buying virtual items for real life cash is not a playstyle. Swiping a credit card and getting an item without actually playing the game is just obtaining virtual items without the game part. I will not condemn a playstyle but RMT isn't a playstyle at all it is the anti-game.
Good luck and I hope your game company makes a bazillion dollars selling gold ot player, but I'd never play it.
Monthly fee, raise it to 20 bucks if you like, and ban gold sellers.
I also have no problem putting a cap on the amount of money players can have at any given level in the game, which would prevent gold selling altogether.
If you are level 1, do you need 1,000 gold pieces? IMO, no. If this was unexceptable, you could just go play a F2P item mall game and go buy all the gold you want.
I'd also do like, well I can't remember which game, DAoC? Armor over your level decays at a rapid rate until it is unusable.
I agree with all of the above and it is capitalism at its worst, which esspecially DOES NOT belong in videogames designed for entertainment. Any company that allows people to use realy money to have an advantage over me, I'll ignore. Everyone I know who plays games agrees. If you want to play a life simulation, then fine. Spend real money in a virtual world. If you want to play a videogame for a few hours after work, real money should have NOTHING to do with it.
RMT trivialized everything in the game. I can't care about any of it if I know someone just paid for it, which means I can't care about playing the game.
I keep seeing the same rhetoric, and asking the same question.
What North American Producer does not support RMT in at least one of thier games?
As far as I can tell, none. That means that all of you are paying a company that supports RMT in some form (if you are paying for any game from a North American Producer). No matter what you say, if you keep giving money to the people that support this, you are in effect part of the problem.
RMT, be it a vanity item, a server transfer, or the 'I win' item is all the same. It is a way for the producer to make money on a virtual product. It is a clear extenion of business practices for real products, and something that consumers support. No matter how 'distasteful' you may find it, people are lining up to pay for it... and any company that wants to do well in these tough economic times is going to take thier money, because that is what business does.
In the end, business caters to those who pay... and charities cater to those who dont.
You have entirely too much bias in your rebuttal. In fact, this is much less an argument than a bit of a rant. It's clear you're against rmt, and that is just fine. But your argument completely ignores simple facts such as the massive existing rmt market (which would be even higher were it legitimized) and the very basic fact that any mmo is already "unfair" due to vaying degress of available time to play a game (having more time to play a mmo is just as unbalancing as purchasing items). You must recognize that your opinion does not speak for the majority of mmo gamers. How could you possibly expect game developers to take you seriously when they're staring at a 2 billion / year rmt market? It's clear that many gamers have no issue at all with rmt.
No thank you, I would never play that game. There are better ways of handling gold farmers than charging the players for your in game currency. The only reason you are defending it is because it makes you a lot of money. Again buying virtual items of any sort is not gameplay that is buying virtual items. The game IS playing it for items. You missed the whole point or maybe since you are making a game right now you have a bias view on this. Of course you want your game to sell.
If you want to handle gold farming then it would be easier to fix. One fix is to eliminate the need for a terrible amount of gold, WoW did just that. Of course in your "game" I am sure things will cost a deal more because this is what RMT games do. Another fix is remove the in game economy, it seems to get in the way of the game more than it helps. Everything you loot should be bound to you even gold. I don't think you should be able to buy anything in game with coin. This may take away the commerce feel but it would remove what you think is "needed". The devs could evaluate easier time vs reward this way as well.
If a game ever becomes unfun to actually play then go to another game. If you play games that are unfun to you and bypass the game play by buying stuff then you only make these game prosper. The different perspective is illogical, buying things do not make a game, that is something else.
No it's not. Vanity items and Server transfers are fine.... any item that gives you an advantage are not.
I'm fine with F2P games using any type of RMT they want... but I won't play the ones that sell items that give advantages.
Paying for server transfers, names changes and the like for P2P games are fine too... the reason they do it is to keep people from abusing it... which if it were free they would. You could say they shouldn't often it an all... but people asked for it in WoW and got it.
I've used it to move character on a 2nd account to main account when I was done with the other account.
Missed the whole point. Buying virtual items without actually playing isn't a game. Just because there is a big market for it doesn't make it gameplay. If everybody is doing it argument doesn't make it valid. You also miss the whole point of what a game is. You are worrying about how to maximize your time versus money shows this. Buying items does not make a game, getting the items is the game. If you feel it is unfun to get some items in a game or do not have enough time to play a game to get items then you would be doing yourself a favor by not doing it. That is like saying you want the trophy for playing football but do not have the time to play it so you just purchase the trophy. Does that make sense?
Also when you do buy items you only encourage developers to produce the same timesinks in their games that you do not have time for or do not find fun. Then you get in the whole circle of skipping what you are paying for again the gameplay to obtain items with swiping of a credit card. My argument is RMT isn't a gameplay style. RMT is the anti-game. You are paying to bypass what the game is, gameplay to obtain some virtual item. The experience of getting the item is what the game is, not actually having the item. If you buy it you will never have that satisfaction. Same goes for gold. If it requires too much gold to get items in a game and you didn't purchase gold by swiping your card, the devs would either lose subscribers or change how much gold it took to buy said item.
The game itself is the gameplay you skip that you have nothing.
RMT can be done the right way and the wrong way.
Now hear me out.
1. Time codes like in Eve online offer a realistic way to buy and sell gold. Players do not trade cash rather 1 player buys game time, and another player buys that game time from him through IN-game mechanics. 3 of work ends up being 14.99 of game time. But the codes are instanly applied to the account, so no re-selling higher after you buy your time.
2. Game services like Voice servers, websites ( useable in game and out ) for private blogs or whole guilds, Player stats, advanced Maps, And MODS ( player created sold in a mod store like IPHONE APPS, with 10% of profit to host company will lead to higher quality mods )
-----------those things will cost real world money. BUT Players can get them for free, if they have tokens for them. Tokens will be bought for exact cost of service you want, they can then be sold on auction houses to other players for gold.
Anyway thats how it can be done the right way.
to go along with it..... if you are tracking stats, like eve online does. Catch a player with crazy sums of cash, is pretty easy and happens all the time. First time you do it you lose the amount of cash you bought PLUS double that. People go negative cash.
A big deal when things cost money to repair.............