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RJCox
Member Posts: 2,686
So I wanted to start a thread to get some ideas from the community at large about the forums here. Not necessarily the layout or functionality of them, thats something for another time really. I'm mainly interested in hearing feedback about how they're handled. The rules, moderation, what you like and don't like (and don't tell me you don't like being moderated, no one does) what you think could be improved, are we too harsh, too lenient, too many rules, too few, etc. I can't make any promises that I'll change things in a drastic way, but I definitely want to take a look at things and go from there. I get tons of feedback email on the subject, but it's always hard to judge from those since you have to take the vocal minority into account. Plus people who are happy rarely take the time to write in without encouragement while the ones who are unhappy are quick to pull the trigger.
So anyway, post away, I'll compile some notes on the matter and go from there.
Thanks!
Richard J. Cox
"There were much of the beautiful, much of the wanton, much of the bizarre, something of the terrible, and not a little of that which might have excited disgust."
Comments
On the whole I'm happy with the moderation around here, with the exception of being left a bit bemused behind the reasons that threads are locked. Sometimes it's pretty obvious that they've descended into a flamefest but it wouldn't hurt to have a quick response from a mod as to why it's being locked before they do so. This might give people who aren't aware of the rules a better indication of what isn't acceptable.
One other thing is the issue of duplicate threads. Do we really need 5+ threads about the release date of Darkfall? Conversations and discussions get fragmented when they're spread over many threads and a lot of people would probably prefer a centralised discussions about specific issues. Some other forums I've been to lock and redirect or merge to keep things flowing.
Just my 2 cents.
Like Zayne said, when a mod locks a thread, they should say why. This would (theoretically) prevent repetition because the average poster is more likely to read that than the RoC. Almost every other forum I visit already does this.
I also agree with Zayne about multiple threads covering the same thing. At the time he posted, it was Darkfall release date, currently it's SOE introducing Station Cash. Next, it'll be about Darkfall being delayed............
There should also be stricter limitations on signatures. Some people have multiple images so that when you look at their posts, their sig fills the page. Yes, I know sigs can be turned off, but I'd hate to miss out on something important like the latest Smedley quote
That's all I think needs changing with relation to the forums - get your protective clothing ready for when you ask for input on messaging and the rest of the site!
the mods need to be unbiased. In the last three months i have ran into two mods who are VERY politically outspoken and one of them even emailed me threats on his regular member account (in which i have since reported).
mods here seems to be untrained these days and a bit more immature than the old school mods.
Also, when a mod locks a thread or deletes them, explain why to the OP. I had a thread on the world obesity problems and it was deleted but the thread next to mine (about masturbation practices) was left untouched.
lotsa training needs to happen.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
I think the forums would be much better off without discussions of politics and/or religion. Even in the off-topic forums. I know a lot of folks will disagree, but Ive never seen a positive outcome on either topic. They always spin out of control negatively.
I honestly think the rules and moderation on the forums is overly laxed. Especially when users post topics to bait, or post within threads specifically to do nothing but bait. I think there should be quicker and more admin responses to "bait" topics and users who constantly bait topics to spin it into a flame war. Maybe its just the mods arent informed as to what is considered "baiting", or maybe its not against forum rules to bait users into flame wars, but baiting seems to be completely overlooked until a thread has spun out of control. I see a lot of users who retort punished, but the person who delibrately baits is rarely.. if ever punished.
I've also been seeing a lot of overly used profanity. I never saw this 2 years ago, not sure if its just something that was never against the rules or perhaps its just getting worse. Not that I wear a halo or anything, but if a person is having such a hard time formulating words that he/she needs to resort to dropping profanity at every post.. something should be done about it.
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
I like the forums, and they help me in my quest to write better English.
I think the moderation is a bit over the top in terms of banning. I however think the moderation for locking posts and deleting posts is very good and where it should be.
Also, would an international French/German/italian/Japanese forum, or any combination of them be possible?
Of course not all together, but just like:
International forum:
-French
-German
-Italian
-Japanese
For example, I know there's some french, german and dutch speaking posters on MMORPG and having a forum for us would be cool. I would still post in the english forums because it would be much more extensive but it's nice to have dedicated international forums.
My biggest beef is moderation. Some of the reasoning behind getting warnings are just crazy, and I mean crazy.
The last one today has the reasoning as "retaliation" (for telling a guy who told folks to use a tampon, and I told him what he can do with one). Don't know how it can be "retaliation" considering I haven't posted to the 18 post wonder until then.
A two minute check would've told the mod that the guy trolls threads, even.
Both were removed, but all of my "warnings" come from the EQ2 forum, and over little things like that, or even quoting someone -- yes, telling someone to put a fork in it, and posting 2 quotes from him, is considered "flaming".
Crazy.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
when i used to be a Mod, we were told to delete posts with heavy profanity. Admin stated we need moderation over this due to the forums being family friendly.
Also, in the past, religious and political threads were heavily monitered and locked fast if it got out of control. but since I know of two mods who are hard core religious and political posters, Admin and others pretty much threw that concept out of the window. Its been well over a month since the elections and we are still bombarded with political threads.
Gone are the good ole days of mature posters and mature moderators. /cry
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
I don't know. These forums where extremely cool way back in time. They deteriorate a little with changes, changes needed as the site get bigger and you cannot give a personnal supervision to each user and have to follow strict rules. So, technically, more staff...so you can be more, intelligent, on the applications of the rules. See, if someone punch someone on the street because he finds it funny, the cops should arrest him. If someone punch another who was trying to steal them, what should the cops do?
Beside that, better and more interesting MMOs which don't always resolve around PvP/RvR/Raiding. :P I know, Kunou is a God and roxor, so why not ask? :P
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Reasons why threads are locked would help,and a list of those who are band..hehe.not why just who.
But some of the info here is priceless,and games,life and politics go hand in hand.
Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.
There should be a standard when it comes to moderation. Personal bias should not influence the way threads are moderated or deleted.
I'm fairly satisfied with the way the moderators handle things here mainly because I've had no dealings with moderators. I generally try to retort in a mature way but sometimes it just can't be done. In regards to the religious/political threads, I just stay away. I have no interest in them and it's perhaps a reason why I don't post as much as I used to. The lack of other topics tends to do this.
In conclusion, when mods mod a post, make them sign it with a reason. Same with locked posts. It will give the offenders an explanation and perhaps though unlikely they might learn something and not do it again.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
Well 2 years ago when I first joined there was very little moderation on this site. This was a bad thing as a lot of times threads got way out of control. Then about 6-8 months ago the moderation got a lot more strict... too strict. I've gotten warnings for the most silliest things. Things like saying someone was ignorant about something when it was very clear in the thread that they had no clue what they were talking about. Ignorant isn't a personal attack, flame or insult. It just means that someone is without knowledge on a certain subject. There have been other incidents as well but I won't go into them now as it wouldn't be appropriate because I'd have to go into too much detail to explain effectively.
Edit: I just thought I would add to the last paragraph that I've also gotten warnings for things that I feel I fully deserved. I do get a little crazy at times especially if it's a topic I'm very passionate about so keep an eye on me!
Most of the time I do try to post with respect to all that deserve it which is almost everyone who posts here with the exception of a very few.
I do like the fact that more duplicate, obvious troll and out of control threads are getting locked but like others have stated the mod locking the thread needs to make a short post explaining why it was locked. This not only clears up any confusion on the subject but just re-enforces what the rules are for those that are ignorant of them.(There's that word again.. please don't ban me!
)
I guess the jist of what I'm saying is it would be a mistake to go back to what the moderation was 2 years ago as it was way too lax but it is too strict now. You guys need to find a middle ground that will make you and the posters happy. Oh, I also agree that profanity and just general lewd behavior should be moderated without question. This is a game site so there are a lot of minors on here that just shouldn't be subjected to some of the filth I've seen. Offenders should just be warned at first and only banned if they continue to post in an offensive way.
Bren
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I am quite happy about the forum, the moderating have just become better the last year or so.
My only negative thing I can say is that the GG comic sucks, it been the same since you took it in. Bad idea to take in a comic that only comes out 4 times a year even if it is funny. Yeah, I like comics, the Noob always make me laugh
Oh, yeah, the forum is sometimes a bit unstable in Opera also.
when i used to be a Mod, we were told to delete posts with heavy profanity. Admin stated we need moderation over this due to the forums being family friendly.
Also, in the past, religious and political threads were heavily monitered and locked fast if it got out of control. but since I know of two mods who are hard core religious and political posters, Admin and others pretty much threw that concept out of the window. Its been well over a month since the elections and we are still bombarded with political threads.
Gone are the good ole days of mature posters and mature moderators. /cry
*whistles*
Man...It's always my fault, eh, iggy? I just enjoyed expanding my religious-political debating practices.
I agree with alot of what you said though. There were alot of times things would flux alot, but usually there was an understood way of dealing with it. The occasional F-bomb was usually untampered with, and even in my moderation a profanity laced post that besides the heated words proved an intellectual point, I would edit and sign it. Usually sending the poster a private message acting as a sort of unofficial warning. Had them less heated over being "reprimanded", and served it's point. But I think that's one problem where alot of things are lost.
Old school moderators, were old school forum goers. We were usually hardcore members of the forum before we were moderators. So in alot of instances, these were our forum buddies we kept in check. Which we did.Professionalism is needed, but at the same time, one cannot be completely detached from the forum, and also to be held accountable. The complete anonymity of moderators now removes that sense of being held accountable when going over-zealous or biased.
So pretty much to just reiterate iggy. To get some professional, mature, intelligent, but fair moderators on these boards. Bring back some old school flavor.
I have faith in you Kunou!
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
Gotta agree here. Most of the mods, and you, Kunou, seem to be very fair-minded, and lean towards letting people speak their mind, but it seems one or two are VERY biased.
I would like to see some improvement in that area. Either be free or fair, or better yet, both.
fishermage.blogspot.com
If members have their posts for all to see, and will face any consequences for what they said, at least the moderators can face the same accountability. It will rein some in who are on a power trip, and give folks a direct way to resolve conflicts -- not a link to whoever mod is on duty who doesn't know what has happened.
It's not easy being a moderator (oh, I know!), but a moderator's job isn't only to be a janitor, they're also the go between to the forum Admin. If a site has bad moderators they also reflect the mindset of the site's administrator, as power tripping and abuse of power is tolerated.
Slashdot has a novel way to moderate it's site, and that's trying members out as "moderators for the day". This weeds out the worst, and also helps the site staff to find the best of the crop. Wish more sites took this approach -- a month trial even (to ensure folks aren't just trying to act good) -- than social promotions (which will be riddled with cries of favoritism, as it's true it's difficult to moderate friends).
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
I think the forums are fine. I think the moderators should be more strict. I think many people actually like being banned. I think it makes them think their posts are more relevant, intelligent, and makes them stand out as rebelous. If they get a 3 day ban so what, that just makes them think their posts are more in the right and it gets them attention and makes them feel like the big kid on the block. They can come right back after 3 days and pick up where they left of and continue the flaming in hopes of getting the last word in.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
I used to like the forum alot more than I do now and there does seem to be one rule for some and another for others, also I have noticed some of you Higher post count members get away with posting some appalling stuff while you seem to hand out Bans for ludicrous reasons to others, as a result I dont visit here as much as I used too.
I think also you allow too much Hatred on these forums and have appeared to condone it a little too much.
Critisism and positive disscussion is good but on this site it always turns to hatred.
only problem i've had in that last 3-5 months, is some guy makeing a thread in the pub calling everyone a tool and a troll for leaving EQ/EQ2 because of station cash, and then seeing the thread deleted which was good, except he posted in the next 3-4 SOE threads. I've been banned for calling somebody arrogant once (a 120 day ban) and this guy gets off on a warning if that, total bullshit imo. Besides that i'm fine.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
I definitely agree with these suggestions the most.
I also agree with the mods signing with why a thread was locked and with what Finwe said.
------
A work in progress: (Update: 08/09/10)Easily find your favorite type of MMO
Biggest thing is moderators shouldn't be able to hide.
They all have those disclaimers on their mod accounts, so the need for seperate "regular" accounts is voided. A moderator found posting on multiple accounts (i.e. accounts other than their mod account) should be subjected to the same rules governing multiple accounts for everyone else.
Also, when editing, locking, or deleting posts or threads, the mod should state their reasons, including the specific rule from the RoC which they are enforcing. When deleting a thread, the title of the thread can be amended with a *thread deleted* ( also amend any violations in the title such as goldseller/privates server sites, etc. ) and upon opening, have a post from the mod with the reasons/rules applied. Leave the thread for one or two days so everyone who posted in it can see why it was deleted.
The only threads which should be deleted without need for explaination would be goldseller/advertising/private server threads where noone other than the OP has posted.
One thing this would clear up would be "fanboi mods" who delete negative post ( and I mean constructive negative posts, not the "This game sucks!" single line stuff ) because they are fans of that particular game/topic.
Zorvan, that's how moderating used to be. When me, Finwe, Dekron, Malki, and other old school mods used to close a thread or delete a post, we always told why we did and to be careful. These days, the many of the MODs ninja everything. You barely ever see them in action; however, Admin knows they are doing the job because the "report" tool shows which moderator took care of what. But many of them are just too lazy these days to explain why they deleted a post or locked a thread.
Another thing that bothers me is what you mentioned. Many of these mods have alt accounts....or their alt accounts are actually their MOD account. This was their reasoning of letting a mod be a mod on his mod account but is a complete asshole on his main account. I only found him out because him PMed me threats on his main account saying how his MOD account will ban me. Long story short, I think he got kicked off the mod team for it...or seriously warned. Back in the "good ole days" us mods were who we were. We didn't hide behind fake names. If we posted something controversal, there would have been hell to pay from Admin. Sadly, these days, some MODs will create alt account MOD status and then act like complete asshats on their real accounts. Sad, but true.
Also, we used to use the big POST DELETED stamp. I hate the way mods do it now by [mod edit]. I mean...come on...anyone can do that. when you saw a big ass POST DELETED on the thread right under the offending posters name you know that poster somehow screwed up. He was called out and was respsonsible for his own actions.
If mmorpg.com wants to make these forums better, drop the 2006-2008 mod ruleset version 2.0 and go back to the version 1 ruleset.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Post deleted stamp: the problem IMHO it was too big.
Alt-account(s): I got nothing, I don't have an alt account nor get involved in political threads.(But if a mod misbehaves he wont be around for long).
Yep, I remember. I can't even remember my original join date on my first "Zorvan" account, but I know Finwe was still waving his banstick and the whole "Mort" situation was still a topic of the day. The boards seemed to be alot more manageable back then and, to me anyway, a lot more fun.
Post deleted stamp: the problem IMHO it was too big.
Alt-account(s): I got nothing, I don't have an alt account nor get involved in political threads.(But if a mod misbehaves he wont be around for long).
JelloB2000,
I apologize then ....I thought it was mods just getting lazy. My apologies. God rest her soul (and I really mean it) but some of her rules were really bad.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
when i'm vote for my favorite game, i find that the score could only be a whole number
but i want to hyper a score like x.x