LEC in the late 80's to early 90's was pretty much where BioWare is today. They had a great track record of making excellent games. It makes you wonder what happened behind the scenes to change that. Even more, it make you realize that just because a company has a history of making great games, it doesn't mean they always will. Let's hope that BioWare doesn't take LEC's path, and if they do, let's hope they wait until after TOR to take it.
Laziness happened. That and the idiot Jim Ward. When the prequel movies started coming out, LEC completely abandoned their non Star Wars franchises and just started releasing pieces of crap to go along with the movies. Quality didn't matter, only release dates. A lot of that filtered over to SWG.
LEC in the late 80's to early 90's was pretty much where BioWare is today. They had a great track record of making excellent games. It makes you wonder what happened behind the scenes to change that. Even more, it make you realize that just because a company has a history of making great games, it doesn't mean they always will. Let's hope that BioWare doesn't take LEC's path, and if they do, let's hope they wait until after TOR to take it.
Laziness happened. That and the idiot Jim Ward. When the prequel movies started coming out, LEC completely abandoned their non Star Wars franchises and just started releasing pieces of crap to go along with the movies. Quality didn't matter, only release dates. A lot of that filtered over to SWG.
This is a recurring theme that has come up regarding StarWars games, SOE and LucasArts. Product/movie tie ins to maximize revenue seem to have become priority number 1 on Ward's watch.
At a glance, this seems like a wise approach, from a business standpoint. In my view, however, it's a near-sighted viewpoint.
We've seen people post explaining (as if it needs explanation) that of course companies like LEC and SOE make decisions based on making money. Of course they do, and this is actually good. I'd never disagree with a company trying to maximize revenue.
What this fails to consider is the broader view: that making money, maintaining quality, and maintaining customer satisfaction all need to go hand-in-hand.
Catastrophic, philosophical errors were made when product/movie tie-ins and marketting driven production superceded the quality of the product and customer satisfaction. I'm not just speaking of the NGE by the way, although I think this is was the pinnacle of this escalating sytemic error.
I'd say this pattern occured at release, then again with the jedi system, then again with the CU, and then again monumentally with the NGE and ToOW.
Jim Ward is now part of LEC history. He's gone. Did this marketting first and money at the expense of quality and customer satisfaction go with him? Well, we can only hope. As for SOE, I"m past hoping John Smedley will go somewhere that he can do less damage. At this point, I think SOE is John Smedley, and I think he shares the money at the expense of quality and customers philosophy. If I could, I'd remind John that you need to whole package to be successful. If you think you can sacrifice one of these elements to improve another, you're in for dissappointment or the use of an unhealthy amount of denial to keep going.
LEC in the late 80's to early 90's was pretty much where BioWare is today. They had a great track record of making excellent games. It makes you wonder what happened behind the scenes to change that. Even more, it make you realize that just because a company has a history of making great games, it doesn't mean they always will. Let's hope that BioWare doesn't take LEC's path, and if they do, let's hope they wait until after TOR to take it.
Laziness happened. That and the idiot Jim Ward. When the prequel movies started coming out, LEC completely abandoned their non Star Wars franchises and just started releasing pieces of crap to go along with the movies. Quality didn't matter, only release dates. A lot of that filtered over to SWG.
You know...From my perspective it even started before the prequals. I remember in 96 or 97 when the "enhanced" versions came out here in the U.S.A.
There was a local theater that played all three back to back. I sat there hearing changed dialogue. Speciffically with ESB and Darth Vader. I sat and watched as Jabba was thrown into ANH.
It was in the mid 90's that things started to change as far as the franchise is concerned. It is then (at least for me) that GL started selling out the SW brand beyond simple merchandise.
Something special I only saw again in CU (where I started) and has been lost to bad planning in almost all it's forms in the mid 90's.
In the prequals the main dialogue that I thought was good... If not awsome was in the Coruscent theater where Palpatine really started to plant the seed of the Sith in the mind of Vader. It all came from the actor that played Palpatine. Not from Haden. From the best of my knowledge he was the original from the RoTJ. He did an awsome job. To bad GL interfered beyond the original SW. I wish he had remembered lessons learned from then and let somone else direct like ESB. If he had done that, I would have held those movies as something more than just emperical canon. They just don't have the magic except for palpatine in the theater.
Also I really dislike how at the end seen of the "enhanced" RoTJ they decided to stick in Haden as a young Glowie. Especially when Obi is old and so is Yoda. More LA/GL ham-hazardness. Unecessary and stupid. Fully leaving me to believe GL has lost touch with what he created.
P.S. Darth Mull and Quigon were actually also cool. I give that cradit to the actors. Everything else look out.
IMO only
"Suddenly, thousands of Trekies whose heads are full of facts of things like the stardate when the Cardassians farted on Deep Space nine are irrlelevant." - hardcoremoviecritic
Yeah, to us who are age 30+, the original movies were a big event in our memory. To the kids who's first Star Wars experience was the prequels, it didn't reach them quite as the original did us. The prequels did well, but weren't exactly box office blowouts like the originals were (they are all in the top 10 movies of all time adjusted for inflation, in fact "Star Wars" is #1 I believe). In 1977, other than Star Trek (which lived then only in books and reruns) Sci-Fi hadn't really gotten much of a shot in the mainstream, and was still dominated by monster/horror flicks with a few exceptions ("2001"). It was Star Wars that moved Science Fiction movies into the mainstream.
I don't know if I qualify under your 30+ elite crowd, but I'm 28. I didn't see any of the original movies on the big screen, but I did see them on video years before the prequels came out. What I really liked most about the movies were the fight between the Jedi and Sith, which I knew relatively little about. Maybe it'd help if I said Jedi and Sith are so interesting to me, because it is based on Buddism, Samurai's, and Mideval Knights. Add on force powers and lightsabers and you have me hooked for life. So you see, people liked the movies for different reasons and assuming most liked it for this or that is ignorant, because neither of us could possibly know this. What we do know is that the majority of people who do game, prefer to play a Jedi or Sith.
You can't say this..............So you see, people liked the movies for different reasons and assuming most liked it for this or that is ignorant, because neither of us could possibly know this.
And then say this............What we do know is that the majority of people who do game, prefer to play a Jedi or Sith.
Personally I liked Hans Solo, I mean he was a smuggler that flew the Millenium Falcon. I mean I grew up on the original movies, how can you want to be a Jedi when Luke didn't even get the girl lol. The only girl he seemed interested in at the beggining turned out to be his sister oO.
The above and the TOR thing going on now has led me to believe that LA intentionaly ruined Indiana Jones because Lucas always saw himself as Luke and Hans took the lime light lol. Just my own personal conspiracy theory.
Bottom line is is I will agree with you that assuming most liked it for this or that is ignorant, because neither of us could possibly kn ow this. This includes "What we do know is that the majority of people who do game, prefer to play a Jedi or Sith." Most I knew wanted to be bounty hunters, I personaly wanted to be a smuggler, several I knew wanted to be strom troppers lol. I knew 2 that wanted to be Jedi's. Lets see out of 50-ish people I knew that were in to the game 2 wanted to be Jedi's the rest wanted to be anything else.
So no I can't say what the majority wanted to be, nor can you.
Anyways I am taking a pass on this game, I just can't do anymore themeparks. The rides have all started to feel the same and there are some nice looking sandbox's comming out. SWG was the one and only Sci-Fi MMO I found that I enjoyed atleast Pre-Cu, SW:TOR sounds like it will bring in a lot of what made me leave SWG so good luck to you guys and I hope some of you enjoy it. I liked living in the SW universe, I never enjoyed visiting the SW Themepark once in awhile, hopefuly some will understand what I mean by that.
You can't say this..............So you see, people liked the movies for different reasons and assuming most liked it for this or that is ignorant, because neither of us could possibly know this. And then say this............What we do know is that the majority of people who do game, prefer to play a Jedi or Sith. Personally I liked Hans Solo, I mean he was a smuggler that flew the Millenium Falcon. I mean I grew up on the original movies, how can you want to be a Jedi when Luke didn't even get the girl lol. The only girl he seemed interested in at the beggining turned out to be his sister oO. The above and the TOR thing going on now has led me to believe that LA intentionaly ruined Indiana Jones because Lucas always saw himself as Luke and Hans took the lime light lol. Just my own personal conspiracy theory. Bottom line is is I will agree with you that assuming most liked it for this or that is ignorant, because neither of us could possibly kn ow this. This includes "What we do know is that the majority of people who do game, prefer to play a Jedi or Sith." Most I knew wanted to be bounty hunters, I personaly wanted to be a smuggler, several I knew wanted to be strom troppers lol. I knew 2 that wanted to be Jedi's. Lets see out of 50-ish people I knew that were in to the game 2 wanted to be Jedi's the rest wanted to be anything else. So no I can't say what the majority wanted to be, nor can you. Anyways I am taking a pass on this game, I just can't do anymore themeparks. The rides have all started to feel the same and there are some nice looking sandbox's comming out. SWG was the one and only Sci-Fi MMO I found that I enjoyed atleast Pre-Cu, SW:TOR sounds like it will bring in a lot of what made me leave SWG so good luck to you guys and I hope some of you enjoy it. I liked living in the SW universe, I never enjoyed visiting the SW Themepark once in awhile, hopefuly some will understand what I mean by that.
Umm, my opinion on what the majority wants to play comes from the "fact" that most people were grinding for Jedi in Pre-CU, CU, and most rolled Jedi in the NGE. Also, the huge following KoToR has that, gues what, revolved around Jedi characters. So yes, I can say that gamers, notice I said gamers, want to play a force user character.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
LEC in the late 80's to early 90's was pretty much where BioWare is today. They had a great track record of making excellent games. It makes you wonder what happened behind the scenes to change that. Even more, it make you realize that just because a company has a history of making great games, it doesn't mean they always will. Let's hope that BioWare doesn't take LEC's path, and if they do, let's hope they wait until after TOR to take it.
Laziness happened. That and the idiot Jim Ward. When the prequel movies started coming out, LEC completely abandoned their non Star Wars franchises and just started releasing pieces of crap to go along with the movies. Quality didn't matter, only release dates. A lot of that filtered over to SWG.
You know...From my perspective it even started before the prequals. I remember in 96 or 97 when the "enhanced" versions came out here in the U.S.A.
There was a local theater that played all three back to back. I sat there hearing changed dialogue. Speciffically with ESB and Darth Vader. I sat and watched as Jabba was thrown into ANH.
It was in the mid 90's that things started to change as far as the franchise is concerned. It is then (at least for me) that GL started selling out the SW brand beyond simple merchandise.
Something special I only saw again in CU (where I started) and has been lost to bad planning in almost all it's forms in the mid 90's.
In the prequals the main dialogue that I thought was good... If not awsome was in the Coruscent theater where Palpatine really started to plant the seed of the Sith in the mind of Vader. It all came from the actor that played Palpatine. Not from Haden. From the best of my knowledge he was the original from the RoTJ. He did an awsome job. To bad GL interfered beyond the original SW. I wish he had remembered lessons learned from then and let somone else direct like ESB. If he had done that, I would have held those movies as something more than just emperical canon. They just don't have the magic except for palpatine in the theater.
Also I really dislike how at the end seen of the "enhanced" RoTJ they decided to stick in Haden as a young Glowie. Especially when Obi is old and so is Yoda. More LA/GL ham-hazardness. Unecessary and stupid. Fully leaving me to believe GL has lost touch with what he created.
P.S. Darth Mull and Quigon were actually also cool. I give that cradit to the actors. Everything else look out.
IMO only
Heh, yeah I thought the same thing with some of the "special edition" changes. The most infamous was the change to the shooting of Greedo.
It was pretty obvious that the unspoken reason for the special editions was to get StarWars back into the mind of the public just before the release of the prequels. It also showcased the new technology that would be used for special effects in the new films. Unfortunately, they accomplished these objectives at the expense of the original story, which was publicly acclaimed as a masterpiece.
Fortunately, George did allow us access to the original trilogy by DVD. More cash for LA, no doubt, but in this case money well spent.
P.S. Yeah, Darth Maul and Qui Gon Jinn were very well played I think . Actually my favourite duel of all time was the one between Maul and young Obi Wan, after Qui Gon's death. Man those guys really nailed that one. The skill and emotion really made that something special.
You can't say this..............So you see, people liked the movies for different reasons and assuming most liked it for this or that is ignorant, because neither of us could possibly know this. And then say this............What we do know is that the majority of people who do game, prefer to play a Jedi or Sith. Personally I liked Hans Solo, I mean he was a smuggler that flew the Millenium Falcon. I mean I grew up on the original movies, how can you want to be a Jedi when Luke didn't even get the girl lol. The only girl he seemed interested in at the beggining turned out to be his sister oO. The above and the TOR thing going on now has led me to believe that LA intentionaly ruined Indiana Jones because Lucas always saw himself as Luke and Hans took the lime light lol. Just my own personal conspiracy theory. Bottom line is is I will agree with you that assuming most liked it for this or that is ignorant, because neither of us could possibly kn ow this. This includes "What we do know is that the majority of people who do game, prefer to play a Jedi or Sith." Most I knew wanted to be bounty hunters, I personaly wanted to be a smuggler, several I knew wanted to be strom troppers lol. I knew 2 that wanted to be Jedi's. Lets see out of 50-ish people I knew that were in to the game 2 wanted to be Jedi's the rest wanted to be anything else. So no I can't say what the majority wanted to be, nor can you. Anyways I am taking a pass on this game, I just can't do anymore themeparks. The rides have all started to feel the same and there are some nice looking sandbox's comming out. SWG was the one and only Sci-Fi MMO I found that I enjoyed atleast Pre-Cu, SW:TOR sounds like it will bring in a lot of what made me leave SWG so good luck to you guys and I hope some of you enjoy it. I liked living in the SW universe, I never enjoyed visiting the SW Themepark once in awhile, hopefuly some will understand what I mean by that.
Umm, my opinion on what the majority wants to play comes from the "fact" that most people were grinding for Jedi in Pre-CU, CU, and most rolled Jedi in the NGE. Also, the huge following KoToR has that, gues what, revolved around Jedi characters. So yes, I can say that gamers, notice I said gamers, want to play a force user character.
My opinion on it not being the majority comes from the "Fact" that the majority of those I knew did not. I didn't play NGE though so I can't speak on that. I don't think many SW fans stayed after CU and NGE, just glowbat fans which is fine so I share the opinion that most after NGE wanted to be Jedi's can't for Pre-CU due to the fact I experienced the exact opposite of what you are saying. Which means we will simply have to agree to disagree.
Now as far as the Mara Jade thing... I have trouble accepting anything other than the first 3 movies as SW. I don't bash anyone that accepts the rest but for me the rest is like High Lander 3 I just can't accept it as a part of the IP. Highlander 1,2, 4 and SW 4,5,6. Luke was the Jedi Back Street boy, Hans was more of a AC/DC kind of guy, One rocks and the other is a bit questionable on there sexuality oO. Yoda is bad arse though, he kind of gives a bit of kewlness to the Jedi but it wasn't the Fact that Yoda was a jedi that made him bad arse, Yoda was first and formost Bad to the bone and a Jedi secondly. He had that Zen like wisdom and a shroud of mystery.
Anyways if Luke got Mara in the first 3 movies I guess I forgot about it, can possibly chalk it up to selective memory lol, if it was after the first 3 movies then I just don't count it.
I mean honestly..... Luke was the Jedi chosen one..... Does he really make you want to be a Jedi? He reminds me a lot of I guess it was Squal in the FF series, one of the whineyest protagonists I ever saw. I mean you can even check how there careers went after SW. Harrison Ford had a booming career spanning many decades. Mark Hamilton I think did Watchers 3 after SW and that was it, or it's atleast all I can think of for the moment. Hans was the more of a protagonist than Luke to me, I may be the only one to feel that way though.
If you liked the NGE, you'll love TOR. -rejected Bioware sales pitch....
Bwahahahaha. Gets my vote for post of the year.
I highly doubt that the new game will be like the NGE, other than having common features that both have with many MMO's (levels, instances, etc).
LEC clearly doesn't understand MMORPG games, or their customer base.
That aside, assume for a minute that they DID more or less clone the NGE, made the classes simple, stupid, the combat system spastic and stupid indeed, an exact clone.
It would fail. Indeed it'd be the failure that would overtake the NGE as the greatest failure in MMO history. $75 million dollars spent on beer would return more on the investment in recycled cans than this thing will. It would end the argument that the NGE failed because of "poor communication", or "poor implementation" instead of it's own merit.
Smed absolutely proved his incompetence by saying that the current game is the one he wished they'd launched with. Had the NGE game been the launch game, the main difference is that it never would have attracted hundreds of thousands of players and there wouldn't be anyone today lamenting the demise of any form of it as we do Pre-CU and even CU. It'd have closed years ago.
I'm not sure that it would fail, provided Bioware lived up to their reputation and delivered a game that was relatively stable and bug-free (something Sony/LA was unable to do in either Pre-CU or NGE).
As much as everyone around here hates the NGE (myself included, don't think I'm defending it), it is precisely the type of game that is being played by millions of MMORPG players, most of them in WoW, a few in EQ2 and LotRo. The NGE clearly set out to emulate that style of game, and the fact that it has low subscription numbers indicates to me that the implementation was poor, not the concept. The concept has unequivocally been proven successful by Blizzard (financially successful that is), and Bioware will most likely follow that model and do a better job of delivering and communicating.
Will it compete with WoW like they're hoping? I highly doubt it, but it will turn a profit.
I'm not sure that it would fail, provided Bioware lived up to their reputation and delivered a game that was relatively stable and bug-free (something Sony/LA was unable to do in either Pre-CU or NGE). As much as everyone around here hates the NGE (myself included, don't think I'm defending it), it is precisely the type of game that is being played by millions of MMORPG players, most of them in WoW, a few in EQ2 and LotRo. The NGE clearly set out to emulate that style of game, and the fact that it has low subscription numbers indicates to me that the implementation was poor, not the concept. The concept has unequivocally been proven successful by Blizzard (financially successful that is), and Bioware will most likely follow that model and do a better job of delivering and communicating. Will it compete with WoW like they're hoping? I highly doubt it, but it will turn a profit.
Saddly I have to agree with you, the worste part of it all is that Bioware has a good shot at doing this pretty well and making a pretty penny. If and when they do, you are pretty much garunteed never to see another SW Sandbox. It will be themeparks from then on out. I am keeping my fingers crossed that Earthrise and the other Sandbox's comming out do well even the ones I have no intention of playing. Would be nice to get that style of MMO a bit more attention.
I agree. I'm cautiously optimistic about Darkfall and mildly interested in Earthrise (though there really is little info available on it yet from what I can tell).
I'd be willing to pay higher sub rates for a true sandbox; one of these days developers might tap that market.
So we've read some LA press releases about the upcoming Bioware, StarWars MMO. Bioware has a fantastic reputation, but LA is not helping with their current marketting approach. The strategy focuses on lessons they claim to have learned from SWG. LA may be right that some people didn't like logging into StarWars Galaxies with a pistol, a melon and a desert full of womprats to shoot. They also may be right that people didn't enjoy the whole process of killiing a trillion bols, wookies, etc. to try to unlock a jedi. If, however, these are the only clear examples of what they've learned from StarWars Galaxies, this is going to leave people with a bad feeling. Did they not learn that releasing a game with broken professions and quests is a bad idea? Did they not learn that revamping the game (twice) after it went live was a bad idea? Did they not learn that people strongly dislike having all of their ingame progress and professions deleted? Did they not learn that surprising people with a complete revamp the day after an expansion release is a bad idea? If they're going to talk about "lessons learned from SWG," I think they had better start including these in their list. If they don't, people are going to assume LA didn't learn these lessons; and potential players may avoid the new StarWars MMO because LucasArts, the IP holder, it still out to lunch and capable of ruining yet another StarWars online experience.
uh, bioware has 0 rep as far as mmorpgs....and lucas arts kinda sucks. they have both made cool offline games, but that doesnt really mean much. why bother speculating? they arent making a game for YOU, they are making a game to make $ (read:for the masses) off of a pop IP.
you people make me sick, 15$/mo does not make you a decision maker.. it makes you 1 of the flock. when was the last time anyone cared if the sheep were happy? as long as they get fleeced its mission accomplished. though this does give me insight as to what sheep must be talking about standing around in a field all day.
So we've read some LA press releases about the upcoming Bioware, StarWars MMO. Bioware has a fantastic reputation, but LA is not helping with their current marketting approach. The strategy focuses on lessons they claim to have learned from SWG. LA may be right that some people didn't like logging into StarWars Galaxies with a pistol, a melon and a desert full of womprats to shoot. They also may be right that people didn't enjoy the whole process of killiing a trillion bols, wookies, etc. to try to unlock a jedi. If, however, these are the only clear examples of what they've learned from StarWars Galaxies, this is going to leave people with a bad feeling. Did they not learn that releasing a game with broken professions and quests is a bad idea? Did they not learn that revamping the game (twice) after it went live was a bad idea? Did they not learn that people strongly dislike having all of their ingame progress and professions deleted? Did they not learn that surprising people with a complete revamp the day after an expansion release is a bad idea? If they're going to talk about "lessons learned from SWG," I think they had better start including these in their list. If they don't, people are going to assume LA didn't learn these lessons; and potential players may avoid the new StarWars MMO because LucasArts, the IP holder, it still out to lunch and capable of ruining yet another StarWars online experience.
uh, bioware has 0 rep as far as mmorpgs....and lucas arts kinda sucks. they have both made cool offline games, but that doesnt really mean much. why bother speculating? they arent making a game for YOU, they are making a game to make $ (read:for the masses) off of a pop IP.
you people make me sick, 15$/mo does not make you a decision maker.. it makes you 1 of the flock. when was the last time anyone cared if the sheep were happy? as long as they get fleeced its mission accomplished. though this does give me insight as to what sheep must be talking about standing around in a field all day.
Blizzard had ZERO reputation as an MMO developer before they released WoW.
Anything can happen in the MMO business.
As far as how companies handle their customers, some think like you mentioned. But some do care on what their customers think.
In general, it is my personal belief, that big companies tend to disregard what their customers think or care about regarding their products. They have this mentality that it doesn't matter if they piss off one customer; he/she is easily replaced. In MMO terms, we can easily use SOE & SWG, Blizzard & WoW.
Smaller companies don't have that luxury. They have to make sure what customers they DO have are happy, or suffer the consequences. In MMO terms, we can use Funcom & Age of Conan.
Oh, and paying a subscription on an MMO does give you a say in what happens in an MMO.
1) You devote alot of time in playing and advancing your character. Some invest an insane amount of time.
2) You are attached to your character(s). They're your representation in the MMO.
3) You pay this subscription month in and month out. A big deal if you've been loyal to an MMO for a long time.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
So we've read some LA press releases about the upcoming Bioware, StarWars MMO. Bioware has a fantastic reputation, but LA is not helping with their current marketting approach. The strategy focuses on lessons they claim to have learned from SWG. LA may be right that some people didn't like logging into StarWars Galaxies with a pistol, a melon and a desert full of womprats to shoot. They also may be right that people didn't enjoy the whole process of killiing a trillion bols, wookies, etc. to try to unlock a jedi. If, however, these are the only clear examples of what they've learned from StarWars Galaxies, this is going to leave people with a bad feeling. Did they not learn that releasing a game with broken professions and quests is a bad idea? Did they not learn that revamping the game (twice) after it went live was a bad idea? Did they not learn that people strongly dislike having all of their ingame progress and professions deleted? Did they not learn that surprising people with a complete revamp the day after an expansion release is a bad idea? If they're going to talk about "lessons learned from SWG," I think they had better start including these in their list. If they don't, people are going to assume LA didn't learn these lessons; and potential players may avoid the new StarWars MMO because LucasArts, the IP holder, it still out to lunch and capable of ruining yet another StarWars online experience.
uh, bioware has 0 rep as far as mmorpgs....and lucas arts kinda sucks. they have both made cool offline games, but that doesnt really mean much. why bother speculating? they arent making a game for YOU, they are making a game to make $ (read:for the masses) off of a pop IP.
you people make me sick, 15$/mo does not make you a decision maker.. it makes you 1 of the flock. when was the last time anyone cared if the sheep were happy? as long as they get fleeced its mission accomplished. though this does give me insight as to what sheep must be talking about standing around in a field all day.
Heh, for 15 bucks a month I never wanted to be a decision maker. I wanted to get the product that was advertised to me, and I wanted it to function...period. I got none of the above in SWG.
As for customers wanting these things making you sick, I'm sure Smed feels the same way--doesn't seem to be working for him. He and his company are despised, and his games don't come close to the success of his competitors.
Comments
Laziness happened. That and the idiot Jim Ward. When the prequel movies started coming out, LEC completely abandoned their non Star Wars franchises and just started releasing pieces of crap to go along with the movies. Quality didn't matter, only release dates. A lot of that filtered over to SWG.
Laziness happened. That and the idiot Jim Ward. When the prequel movies started coming out, LEC completely abandoned their non Star Wars franchises and just started releasing pieces of crap to go along with the movies. Quality didn't matter, only release dates. A lot of that filtered over to SWG.
This is a recurring theme that has come up regarding StarWars games, SOE and LucasArts. Product/movie tie ins to maximize revenue seem to have become priority number 1 on Ward's watch.
At a glance, this seems like a wise approach, from a business standpoint. In my view, however, it's a near-sighted viewpoint.
We've seen people post explaining (as if it needs explanation) that of course companies like LEC and SOE make decisions based on making money. Of course they do, and this is actually good. I'd never disagree with a company trying to maximize revenue.
What this fails to consider is the broader view: that making money, maintaining quality, and maintaining customer satisfaction all need to go hand-in-hand.
Catastrophic, philosophical errors were made when product/movie tie-ins and marketting driven production superceded the quality of the product and customer satisfaction. I'm not just speaking of the NGE by the way, although I think this is was the pinnacle of this escalating sytemic error.
I'd say this pattern occured at release, then again with the jedi system, then again with the CU, and then again monumentally with the NGE and ToOW.
Jim Ward is now part of LEC history. He's gone. Did this marketting first and money at the expense of quality and customer satisfaction go with him? Well, we can only hope. As for SOE, I"m past hoping John Smedley will go somewhere that he can do less damage. At this point, I think SOE is John Smedley, and I think he shares the money at the expense of quality and customers philosophy. If I could, I'd remind John that you need to whole package to be successful. If you think you can sacrifice one of these elements to improve another, you're in for dissappointment or the use of an unhealthy amount of denial to keep going.
Laziness happened. That and the idiot Jim Ward. When the prequel movies started coming out, LEC completely abandoned their non Star Wars franchises and just started releasing pieces of crap to go along with the movies. Quality didn't matter, only release dates. A lot of that filtered over to SWG.
You know...From my perspective it even started before the prequals. I remember in 96 or 97 when the "enhanced" versions came out here in the U.S.A.
There was a local theater that played all three back to back. I sat there hearing changed dialogue. Speciffically with ESB and Darth Vader. I sat and watched as Jabba was thrown into ANH.
It was in the mid 90's that things started to change as far as the franchise is concerned. It is then (at least for me) that GL started selling out the SW brand beyond simple merchandise.
Something special I only saw again in CU (where I started) and has been lost to bad planning in almost all it's forms in the mid 90's.
In the prequals the main dialogue that I thought was good... If not awsome was in the Coruscent theater where Palpatine really started to plant the seed of the Sith in the mind of Vader. It all came from the actor that played Palpatine. Not from Haden. From the best of my knowledge he was the original from the RoTJ. He did an awsome job. To bad GL interfered beyond the original SW. I wish he had remembered lessons learned from then and let somone else direct like ESB. If he had done that, I would have held those movies as something more than just emperical canon. They just don't have the magic except for palpatine in the theater.
Also I really dislike how at the end seen of the "enhanced" RoTJ they decided to stick in Haden as a young Glowie. Especially when Obi is old and so is Yoda. More LA/GL ham-hazardness. Unecessary and stupid. Fully leaving me to believe GL has lost touch with what he created.
P.S. Darth Mull and Quigon were actually also cool. I give that cradit to the actors. Everything else look out.
IMO only
"Suddenly, thousands of Trekies whose heads are full of facts of things like the stardate when the Cardassians farted on Deep Space nine are irrlelevant." - hardcoremoviecritic
I don't know if I qualify under your 30+ elite crowd, but I'm 28. I didn't see any of the original movies on the big screen, but I did see them on video years before the prequels came out. What I really liked most about the movies were the fight between the Jedi and Sith, which I knew relatively little about. Maybe it'd help if I said Jedi and Sith are so interesting to me, because it is based on Buddism, Samurai's, and Mideval Knights. Add on force powers and lightsabers and you have me hooked for life. So you see, people liked the movies for different reasons and assuming most liked it for this or that is ignorant, because neither of us could possibly know this. What we do know is that the majority of people who do game, prefer to play a Jedi or Sith.
You can't say this..............So you see, people liked the movies for different reasons and assuming most liked it for this or that is ignorant, because neither of us could possibly know this.
And then say this............What we do know is that the majority of people who do game, prefer to play a Jedi or Sith.
Personally I liked Hans Solo, I mean he was a smuggler that flew the Millenium Falcon. I mean I grew up on the original movies, how can you want to be a Jedi when Luke didn't even get the girl lol. The only girl he seemed interested in at the beggining turned out to be his sister oO.
The above and the TOR thing going on now has led me to believe that LA intentionaly ruined Indiana Jones because Lucas always saw himself as Luke and Hans took the lime light lol. Just my own personal conspiracy theory.
Bottom line is is I will agree with you that assuming most liked it for this or that is ignorant, because neither of us could possibly kn ow this. This includes "What we do know is that the majority of people who do game, prefer to play a Jedi or Sith." Most I knew wanted to be bounty hunters, I personaly wanted to be a smuggler, several I knew wanted to be strom troppers lol. I knew 2 that wanted to be Jedi's. Lets see out of 50-ish people I knew that were in to the game 2 wanted to be Jedi's the rest wanted to be anything else.
So no I can't say what the majority wanted to be, nor can you.
Anyways I am taking a pass on this game, I just can't do anymore themeparks. The rides have all started to feel the same and there are some nice looking sandbox's comming out. SWG was the one and only Sci-Fi MMO I found that I enjoyed atleast Pre-Cu, SW:TOR sounds like it will bring in a lot of what made me leave SWG so good luck to you guys and I hope some of you enjoy it. I liked living in the SW universe, I never enjoyed visiting the SW Themepark once in awhile, hopefuly some will understand what I mean by that.
Luke did end up getting the girl in the end, unfortuantely, he didn't deserve her, my favorite EU character, Mara Jade.
Umm, my opinion on what the majority wants to play comes from the "fact" that most people were grinding for Jedi in Pre-CU, CU, and most rolled Jedi in the NGE. Also, the huge following KoToR has that, gues what, revolved around Jedi characters. So yes, I can say that gamers, notice I said gamers, want to play a force user character.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
Laziness happened. That and the idiot Jim Ward. When the prequel movies started coming out, LEC completely abandoned their non Star Wars franchises and just started releasing pieces of crap to go along with the movies. Quality didn't matter, only release dates. A lot of that filtered over to SWG.
You know...From my perspective it even started before the prequals. I remember in 96 or 97 when the "enhanced" versions came out here in the U.S.A.
There was a local theater that played all three back to back. I sat there hearing changed dialogue. Speciffically with ESB and Darth Vader. I sat and watched as Jabba was thrown into ANH.
It was in the mid 90's that things started to change as far as the franchise is concerned. It is then (at least for me) that GL started selling out the SW brand beyond simple merchandise.
Something special I only saw again in CU (where I started) and has been lost to bad planning in almost all it's forms in the mid 90's.
In the prequals the main dialogue that I thought was good... If not awsome was in the Coruscent theater where Palpatine really started to plant the seed of the Sith in the mind of Vader. It all came from the actor that played Palpatine. Not from Haden. From the best of my knowledge he was the original from the RoTJ. He did an awsome job. To bad GL interfered beyond the original SW. I wish he had remembered lessons learned from then and let somone else direct like ESB. If he had done that, I would have held those movies as something more than just emperical canon. They just don't have the magic except for palpatine in the theater.
Also I really dislike how at the end seen of the "enhanced" RoTJ they decided to stick in Haden as a young Glowie. Especially when Obi is old and so is Yoda. More LA/GL ham-hazardness. Unecessary and stupid. Fully leaving me to believe GL has lost touch with what he created.
P.S. Darth Mull and Quigon were actually also cool. I give that cradit to the actors. Everything else look out.
IMO only
Heh, yeah I thought the same thing with some of the "special edition" changes. The most infamous was the change to the shooting of Greedo.
It was pretty obvious that the unspoken reason for the special editions was to get StarWars back into the mind of the public just before the release of the prequels. It also showcased the new technology that would be used for special effects in the new films. Unfortunately, they accomplished these objectives at the expense of the original story, which was publicly acclaimed as a masterpiece.
Fortunately, George did allow us access to the original trilogy by DVD. More cash for LA, no doubt, but in this case money well spent.
P.S. Yeah, Darth Maul and Qui Gon Jinn were very well played I think
. Actually my favourite duel of all time was the one between Maul and young Obi Wan, after Qui Gon's death. Man those guys really nailed that one. The skill and emotion really made that something special.
Umm, my opinion on what the majority wants to play comes from the "fact" that most people were grinding for Jedi in Pre-CU, CU, and most rolled Jedi in the NGE. Also, the huge following KoToR has that, gues what, revolved around Jedi characters. So yes, I can say that gamers, notice I said gamers, want to play a force user character.
My opinion on it not being the majority comes from the "Fact" that the majority of those I knew did not. I didn't play NGE though so I can't speak on that. I don't think many SW fans stayed after CU and NGE, just glowbat fans which is fine so I share the opinion that most after NGE wanted to be Jedi's can't for Pre-CU due to the fact I experienced the exact opposite of what you are saying. Which means we will simply have to agree to disagree.
Now as far as the Mara Jade thing... I have trouble accepting anything other than the first 3 movies as SW. I don't bash anyone that accepts the rest but for me the rest is like High Lander 3 I just can't accept it as a part of the IP. Highlander 1,2, 4 and SW 4,5,6. Luke was the Jedi Back Street boy, Hans was more of a AC/DC kind of guy, One rocks and the other is a bit questionable on there sexuality oO. Yoda is bad arse though, he kind of gives a bit of kewlness to the Jedi but it wasn't the Fact that Yoda was a jedi that made him bad arse, Yoda was first and formost Bad to the bone and a Jedi secondly. He had that Zen like wisdom and a shroud of mystery.
Anyways if Luke got Mara in the first 3 movies I guess I forgot about it, can possibly chalk it up to selective memory lol, if it was after the first 3 movies then I just don't count it.
I mean honestly..... Luke was the Jedi chosen one..... Does he really make you want to be a Jedi? He reminds me a lot of I guess it was Squal in the FF series, one of the whineyest protagonists I ever saw. I mean you can even check how there careers went after SW. Harrison Ford had a booming career spanning many decades. Mark Hamilton I think did Watchers 3 after SW and that was it, or it's atleast all I can think of for the moment. Hans was the more of a protagonist than Luke to me, I may be the only one to feel that way though.
Bwahahahaha. Gets my vote for post of the year.
Bwahahahaha. Gets my vote for post of the year.
I highly doubt that the new game will be like the NGE, other than having common features that both have with many MMO's (levels, instances, etc).
LEC clearly doesn't understand MMORPG games, or their customer base.
That aside, assume for a minute that they DID more or less clone the NGE, made the classes simple, stupid, the combat system spastic and stupid indeed, an exact clone.
It would fail. Indeed it'd be the failure that would overtake the NGE as the greatest failure in MMO history. $75 million dollars spent on beer would return more on the investment in recycled cans than this thing will. It would end the argument that the NGE failed because of "poor communication", or "poor implementation" instead of it's own merit.
Smed absolutely proved his incompetence by saying that the current game is the one he wished they'd launched with. Had the NGE game been the launch game, the main difference is that it never would have attracted hundreds of thousands of players and there wouldn't be anyone today lamenting the demise of any form of it as we do Pre-CU and even CU. It'd have closed years ago.
I'm not sure that it would fail, provided Bioware lived up to their reputation and delivered a game that was relatively stable and bug-free (something Sony/LA was unable to do in either Pre-CU or NGE).
As much as everyone around here hates the NGE (myself included, don't think I'm defending it), it is precisely the type of game that is being played by millions of MMORPG players, most of them in WoW, a few in EQ2 and LotRo. The NGE clearly set out to emulate that style of game, and the fact that it has low subscription numbers indicates to me that the implementation was poor, not the concept. The concept has unequivocally been proven successful by Blizzard (financially successful that is), and Bioware will most likely follow that model and do a better job of delivering and communicating.
Will it compete with WoW like they're hoping? I highly doubt it, but it will turn a profit.
Saddly I have to agree with you, the worste part of it all is that Bioware has a good shot at doing this pretty well and making a pretty penny. If and when they do, you are pretty much garunteed never to see another SW Sandbox. It will be themeparks from then on out. I am keeping my fingers crossed that Earthrise and the other Sandbox's comming out do well even the ones I have no intention of playing. Would be nice to get that style of MMO a bit more attention.
I agree. I'm cautiously optimistic about Darkfall and mildly interested in Earthrise (though there really is little info available on it yet from what I can tell).
I'd be willing to pay higher sub rates for a true sandbox; one of these days developers might tap that market.
uh, bioware has 0 rep as far as mmorpgs....and lucas arts kinda sucks. they have both made cool offline games, but that doesnt really mean much. why bother speculating? they arent making a game for YOU, they are making a game to make $ (read:for the masses) off of a pop IP.
you people make me sick, 15$/mo does not make you a decision maker.. it makes you 1 of the flock. when was the last time anyone cared if the sheep were happy? as long as they get fleeced its mission accomplished. though this does give me insight as to what sheep must be talking about standing around in a field all day.
uh, bioware has 0 rep as far as mmorpgs....and lucas arts kinda sucks. they have both made cool offline games, but that doesnt really mean much. why bother speculating? they arent making a game for YOU, they are making a game to make $ (read:for the masses) off of a pop IP.
you people make me sick, 15$/mo does not make you a decision maker.. it makes you 1 of the flock. when was the last time anyone cared if the sheep were happy? as long as they get fleeced its mission accomplished. though this does give me insight as to what sheep must be talking about standing around in a field all day.
Blizzard had ZERO reputation as an MMO developer before they released WoW.
Anything can happen in the MMO business.
As far as how companies handle their customers, some think like you mentioned. But some do care on what their customers think.
In general, it is my personal belief, that big companies tend to disregard what their customers think or care about regarding their products. They have this mentality that it doesn't matter if they piss off one customer; he/she is easily replaced. In MMO terms, we can easily use SOE & SWG, Blizzard & WoW.
Smaller companies don't have that luxury. They have to make sure what customers they DO have are happy, or suffer the consequences. In MMO terms, we can use Funcom & Age of Conan.
Oh, and paying a subscription on an MMO does give you a say in what happens in an MMO.
1) You devote alot of time in playing and advancing your character. Some invest an insane amount of time.
2) You are attached to your character(s). They're your representation in the MMO.
3) You pay this subscription month in and month out. A big deal if you've been loyal to an MMO for a long time.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
uh, bioware has 0 rep as far as mmorpgs....and lucas arts kinda sucks. they have both made cool offline games, but that doesnt really mean much. why bother speculating? they arent making a game for YOU, they are making a game to make $ (read:for the masses) off of a pop IP.
you people make me sick, 15$/mo does not make you a decision maker.. it makes you 1 of the flock. when was the last time anyone cared if the sheep were happy? as long as they get fleeced its mission accomplished. though this does give me insight as to what sheep must be talking about standing around in a field all day.
Heh, for 15 bucks a month I never wanted to be a decision maker. I wanted to get the product that was advertised to me, and I wanted it to function...period. I got none of the above in SWG.
As for customers wanting these things making you sick, I'm sure Smed feels the same way--doesn't seem to be working for him. He and his company are despised, and his games don't come close to the success of his competitors.