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Warhammer Online : Age of Reckoning: Population Imbalance Issues

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  • ArinasArinas Warhammer Online Correspondent Ramat GanPosts: 3Member

    Hi guys, Arinas here (the OP).



    Just two quick points to add that might make some more sense to the article:


    • I wrote it almost a month ago (was posted only now due to some editorial reasons, which is cool), before the experience and renown bonuses were in place, that's why it seems a bit "Last Tuesday". Regardless, the issue still exists, only on a lesser degree.

       

    • When I referred to Order's healers, I was saying a very simple thing. They aren't underpowered in their abilities - We all know they are simply mirror classes of their Destruction counter parts. What I did say was that they are LESS ATTRACTIVE visually.

    I still stand by my point - Destruction is just cooler. And apparently, in an MMO, that's a very big thing.

    Thanks,

    Arinas

     

  • just1opinionjust1opinion Kansas City, MOPosts: 4,844Member
    Originally posted by Mrbloodworth


    The citys have never been captured to this day. Never. Please to learn the system.

     

    This is not true.  Altdorf has been captured numerous times on a couple of different servers.  I can't link anything for you right at the moment, but you can PROBABLY find that information on the main WAR site.  I know ONE of those times was on Averheim server, because that was MY server, and indeed Altdorf WAS taken, albeit, if I remember correctly, it happened about 2 am when there weren't many people on to defend.  But then....with a game that depends so HEAVILY on population to work correctly...that's going to happen a LOT eventually.

    President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  • KalmarthKalmarth Lake Havasu City, AZPosts: 443Member
    Originally posted by Arinas


    Hi guys, Arinas here (the OP).



    Just two quick points to add that might make some more sense to the article:

    I wrote it almost a month ago (was posted only now due to some editorial reasons, which is cool), before the experience and renown bonuses were in place, that's why it seems a bit "Last Tuesday". Regardless, the issue still exists, only on a lesser degree.

     
    When I referred to Order's healers, I was saying a very simple thing. They aren't underpowered in their abilities - We all know they are simply mirror classes of their Destruction counter parts. What I did say was that they are LESS ATTRACTIVE visually.

    I still stand by my point - Destruction is just cooler. And apparently, in an MMO, that's a very big thing.
    Thanks,

    Arinas

     

    Just a Note on the LESS ATTRACTIVE thing, thats all from your stand point, what is Attractive to one person is not to another, to claim this is psychosomatic and just reinforces your view that Destruction looks better because you think it looks better.

    From my stand point the Dwarfs look cool as hell and the High Elves can look good too, you seem to think that everyone has a view of dark oppressive visuals as being what they want this is just not true.



     

    This post is much akin with all those but the Graphic look like WoW post that just got hit at trolling.

    As for the population issue yes T1-2 are empty because people have leveled out of it, and yes there is more destruction than Order right now but this is only the first month give the game at least a month or 2 longer to get stable population before crying pull the plug.

    Sorry but as far as I'm concerned you did a very poor job of reporting on the state of War.

  • ArinasArinas Warhammer Online Correspondent Ramat GanPosts: 3Member

    I'm sorry you feel that way, but the fact remains - Destruction outnumbers Order.

    As per the city captures, like Girlgeek said, they will happen a lot more often. Mythic's bonus system worked great to inject a lot of people into T1 and T2 - Question is how many of those will survive to ultimatly try and balance the population in T4.

  • SirLornSirLorn Teh big D, TXPosts: 161Member

    Just kind of browsing through this post and the replies, you know I have noticed the well organized Destro thing myself......why is that, heh....... most Destro players ( I have seen from other postings regarding multiple servers) seem to deffinetly get what Warhammer is about.......

     

    It is most annoying seeing the players actually not only THERE in the contested area, or beseiged area, but they are all standing about waiting on their scenario queue to pop.

     

    Here, Ill share the macro I made for such occasions when trying to rally folks to step outside their afk'dom and hit teh RvR lake that was streaming with opposition and heretics to burn with you all:

     

    "Attention Scenario Whores!!  Welcome to WAR!!  This is actual real RvR,  please direct your attention to the message that informed you that THE ENEMY IS A STONES THROW AWAY!  See the bar below your minimap, it should have MUCH more BLUE!  If your waiting here for your W ow O nly T akes L ittle K ids to release, please log out and wait in a F2P, but if you want to go to WAR!  Send a tell"

     

    /chuckles......something to that affect anyways, teh WoTLK jib was deffinetly in there though! =P

  • ZyllosZyllos Oklahoma City, OKPosts: 537Member Uncommon

    I really do not know how to respond to this. I play on Wulfenburg (I think thats the name, sorry, only been playing 3 days) for my Order characters. It seems that there are issues everywhere for the game, but my take on the whole subject is this (and I think someone else already mentioned this): if the game seems unbalanced, then a specific or specific set of issues will appear among the masses but whats appearing is a random number of issues everywhere, which to me shows that there is a balance of issues on both sides, which in turn tells me that the game is on its way to balance.

    I am still looking for a server to play my Destruction characters on but I am unsure what server has a lower Destruction popluation vs Order population so I can help with population balance issues. On the subject of classes, what I think needs to happen is that there is still too much spamming of skills/abilities in the game and auto attacks (unless your a witch elf or some class that his a high attack speed) are totally useless, which I stated was an issue in beta.

    I think skills need to have much longer cooldowns but heal/deal more damage from the longer cooldowns. There are plenty of skills that each class has so in a given situation, you are not waiting on cd's on skills (except in maybe the lower tiers but that will disappear quickly). If you want to keep the low cd on abilities/skills, lower the action point regeneration. I am just trying to find ways so people just dont spam constantly, why is there even an autoattack in the game if almost all your dps comes from abilities/skills? Take the engineer for example, his single shot ranged attack (forgot the name) deals a considerable amount of damage (thats maybe because I am playing in t1 scenarios and classes really do not have gear yet) so if I can just spam that single ability, I am generally on top of the damage chart.

    Either way...

    MMOs Played: I can no longer list them all in the 500 character limit.

  • KalmarthKalmarth Lake Havasu City, AZPosts: 443Member

    Zyllos in T1 there is alot of ability spamming as you have very few abilitys, this drops off in t2 and more so in T3 as you have to use your ability in concert with other abilitys to get best effect, I play DPS and a healer, both I find have about 4-6 main core skills that I use then 4-7 others that help/debuff.

     

  • comakamecomakame Downey, CAPosts: 2Member

    I absolutely agree about the destruction characters just being cooler.  I'm the type of person who chooses characters basically solely by aesthetics, and I usually can't stand the "Rawr, I'm so evil" vibe of the bad guys in MMOs.  In WoW I couldn't roll a horde for more than a few days.  However, I found the opposite to be true in WAR, where I couldn't stand playing as Order.  I don't know what exactly the reason is, but they're just not as appealing.

    And yes, it didn't do Order any favors when the PR guys simply couldn't shut up about Destruction, Destruction, Destruction.

    However, I refuse to believe that any class imbalance is the cause, since the classes are all almost exactly mirrored.  All RvR I've been in has been pretty fairly distributed in wins and losses.  If your experience has been different, then I'm not sure what to say... All those fights you were in did have one thing in common...

  • greysyngreysyn Sanford, NCPosts: 6Member

    You should have stayed on Skull Throne. It was no different than the queues at in the beginning in WoW on most servers. I can remember being 800+ in the queue for Bleeding Hollow when WoW launched.

    There are no queues for Skull Throne now and the ratio of Destruction to Order is 1:1 to 1:0. Pretty much even. We aren't experiencing these long queue times for scenarios on either side, for scenarios.

    This was the scene last night in T3. This was while waiting for the PQ to reset.

    We had a great time and in between PQ resets, we battled for the keep and BO's. I hate it for those on low pop or population unbalanced servers. But, I think some of that frustration could have been avoided by just being patient. The queues to log in on Skull Throne, lasted maybe two weeks and I haven't had one since.

  • SamhaelSamhael Huntsville, ALPosts: 697Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by girlgeek

    Originally posted by Mrbloodworth


    The citys have never been captured to this day. Never. Please to learn the system.

     

    This is not true.  Altdorf has been captured numerous times on a couple of different servers.  I can't link anything for you right at the moment, but you can PROBABLY find that information on the main WAR site.  I know ONE of those times was on Averheim server, because that was MY server, and indeed Altdorf WAS taken, albeit, if I remember correctly, it happened about 2 am when there weren't many people on to defend.  But then....with a game that depends so HEAVILY on population to work correctly...that's going to happen a LOT eventually.

     

    It was 7am eastern on a Sunday  when they started in on Averheim (based on some of the WHA posts) but Order slept in that day (well, I know I sure did). Not that I would have been able to contribute to the defense since I guess you had to be 30 or higher and I have some serious alt-itis happening!  And that was a few weeks ago so I'm sure that it's happened since.  Although I do remember reading about Mythic making it more difficult to take a city as a result.

  • wintersclanwintersclan sterling, VAPosts: 33Member
    Originally posted by Arinas


    I'm sorry you feel that way, but the fact remains - Destruction outnumbers Order.

    The population imbalance is an issue that needs to be addressed quickly if this game is to be viable before Christmas 08.

    I have played on both Order and Desto in a number of servers. So, I hope, my opinion is not biased.

    Besides the population imbalance, the glaring class imbalances between Desto and Order is also a problem.   And the heavy marketing on the Desto side by Mythic is also a culprit.  Those two combined are also contributors to the population imbalance, but I will leave that to another thread.

    I would like however to further discuss the effect of the population imbalance on the game.

       1.   Bug fixes.

    Given that there are more Desto players, there will be more bug fixes for Desto contents and abilities. And we have already seen that happening with the patches.  Order players, well, you are out of luck.

       2.  Lack of RvR

     No matter how much bonus points given for RVR, if one faction clearly dominates and outnumbers the other faction, the losing faction simply lost motivation and hope, and may just reroll to the winning faction. No one likes to lose all the time. This undermines one of the major marketing element of this game, RvR.

    For RvR to occur, you have to have enough adrenaline junkies on both sides who want this kind of action.

    Clearly currently, one faction, Desto, has more junkies than the other across most servers.   And I am getting bored on my Desto toon waiting for an RvR to happen, because simply, there are no Orders to fight against.    

    However, with all that said, I have to note, that the quarter year advantage given to Desto will forever mar this game. It will forever be seen as the lack of effort by Mythic dev to address the issue ASAP.  It gives the perception that Mythic stands on the side of Desto, but not Order.  And this, ultimately, and unfortunately, will doom the game.

    I have seen this before with Eve-online, when one Eve developer, knowingly or unknowingly provided his alliance an advantage, and it resulted in massive sub lossses. That perception of dev favoring their preferred faction is a game changer, and sub killer.   And they have been trying forever since, to reclaim that back.

     

     

     

  • budgetnudistbudgetnudist Kansas Ctiy, MOPosts: 5Member

    I do notice that 80% my sc groups on Order suck and 80% of my groups on Destruction don't.

  • RabenwolfRabenwolf Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,445Member

    I think many of you are proving the authors point. The majority of the players complaining about the article are Destro players from the sounds of it.   You are proving his point. I have played on a number of servers and I see the same thing. Too many Destro, too many destro tanks, too many healers on their tanks, and a lot of dps. ON order side I see less players, deserted PQs, and way too many BW and WH. The reason for that is because of..yes....looks.

    Lets face it. Destro has more marketing put into them, posters, billboards, all point at destro. The armor, the zones, the known landmarks, the classes...all favor destro. Im not being biased here, i play both sides and its not hard to see the facts. Order is like a pair of granny panties, and Destro the expensive see through thong. The developers are playing favorites and its hurting the game. The top guild on one of my main servers, they played Order, they just quit the game. There is no reason for them to continue playing because of these imbalances and signs of favoritism.

    More order players are most likely leaving than destro. Its going to be a one sided game.

  • CendhariaCendharia Surrey, BCPosts: 286Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by banthis


    Eh im so tired of hearing about this stuff with all the stuff finally they're doing to help try balance things out and make the RvR lakes more popular.    My only real gripe about this editorial is the remark about scenarios.  They may help scenario grinders get to T4 faster, may help them learn how to play their characters for Scenarios but it won't help them with the main part of T4.   If players aren't familiar with how to take over keeps, defend them, and handle large scale battles as a team they're effectively worthless.  Scenarios do not prepare you for RvR large scale battles its really in most cases (pugs atleast) just a way for people to level themselves and still act like jerks in the process.
    Whats worse is the lame boo hoo missing tank argument.  Do we really need another gripe about that when they announced they're coming into the game soon?  We all know the gripes would be 10 time louder if they were in the game and they sucked ultimate balls.



     

    I have to agree with this poster, there are imminent fixes to some of these problems, personally I think Mythic shot themselves in the foot by making scenarios TOO REWARDING and RVR less much less.   RVR is what this game is all about...its not Warhammer: Age of Scenarios...its Warhammer: Age of Reckoning.

    I am not calling nerf on scenarios....its too late for that.   There are some that are used to the pvp in a box style of pvp...and they come from Wow mostly.   Leave it as it is now, but those same players need to realize that there is more to the game than levelling up and sitting in a scenario day after day, week after week.

    The real game awaits you...get the heck out of that hamster wheel and go experience it for yourself.

     

    Cend

     

  • CendhariaCendharia Surrey, BCPosts: 286Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rabenwolf


    I think many of you are proving the authors point. The majority of the players complaining about the article are Destro players from the sounds of it.   You are proving his point. I have played on a number of servers and I see the same thing. Too many Destro, too many destro tanks, too many healers on their tanks, and a lot of dps. ON order side I see less players, deserted PQs, and way too many BW and WH. The reason for that is because of..yes....looks.
    Lets face it. Destro has more marketing put into them, posters, billboards, all point at destro. The armor, the zones, the known landmarks, the classes...all favor destro. Im not being biased here, i play both sides and its not hard to see the facts. Order is like a pair of granny panties, and Destro the expensive see through thong. The developers are playing favorites and its hurting the game. The top guild on one of my main servers, they played Order, they just quit the game. There is no reason for them to continue playing because of these imbalances and signs of favoritism.
    More order players are most likely leaving than destro. Its going to be a one sided game.



     

    Well if it was favoritism I got the impression it was not intentional...and perhaps as another poster stated, they wanted to advertise destruction..due to most people playing 'good" characters versus evil.

    Another comment I read that I have to agree with along those same lines..is about  playing the "good side" forever in games online.   I did this....am now playing evil as a change of pace Ie Destruction.

    Personally I think they need to improve the elven looks..the high elves specifically.....they come off as too bland.    Now if its based on what the figurines in the warhammer hobby look like..then I guess there's no hope of some "sexiness" being added to Order. 

    This coming from a Destruction player and a former closed beta tester.

    I did feedback in closed ..in regards to what the elves looked like,  I had stated their faces in some cases needed revamping.   But I was just one tiny cog in the wheel, and I think I probably got ignored.

    Hopefully people keep on in their chosen Order faction, don't quit now......instead do some feedback ingame..and keep doing feedback about what you think Order needs to improve the attractiveness of those classes.

    I really do think its a visual thing ...personally I might play "maybe" the Witchhunter or the Shadow Warrior, other than that...I don't find anything attractive about Order classes.

    Mythic might take a clue from that.   People do like to feel their chosen characters have some form of attractiveness or beauty.....whether they are good or evil.

    Cend

     

  • CordenCorden Greenville, SCPosts: 65Member

    Well, population imbalance was part of the reason I cancelled my subscription (and out of pur boredom later on), but I might try it again once/if they can get a grip on things,

    image
  • topaz2ictopaz2ic moncton, NBPosts: 7Member

    I come from Dark Crag,this server is pretty much balanced,Order wins some scen and we win some.Same with keeps

    As for people sucking in scen,you do know that there is a scenerio chat,I use it all the time.Tell people what to do..this is all based on strategy!I find that when one person says something that will work to their teams advantage,most people will follow!

    I love rvr,hence why I picked an rvr server,if I get bored of scen or doing quests and the order side doesnt want to take keeps at that time.I will go over to their side,and pick off people my own lvl,because well nothing like one on one rvr!

    If you pick a server that has low next to it,then you are picking a low pop server.Try for the medium servers!

    I played order on the core servers,and I find it really boring....can't go and rvr the other side..high lvls showing off their stuff and doing low lvl PQs for 1 person that needs help,instead of getting a group together and having fun.

     

    This is WAR people! RVR! don't wait for scenerios..get a group of guildies together and raid something,or attack order when they are doing PQs etc. ( dont say that's mean...everyone does it)

    I'm a girl,I play with my brother and boyfriend,I love this game..it has matched Lineage 2 for me,PVP wise.

    Make premade groups for scen,that's what destruction does.Use region chat,or invite people that are standing next to you.

     

     

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