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Warhammer Online : Age of Reckoning: Correspondent - PQs, A Breath of Air
Stradden
Managing EditorMember CommonPosts: 6,696
MMORPG.com Warhammer Online Correspondent Todd Lundberg writes this articles giving his opinions on the concept of public quests in Mythic Entertainment's Warhammer Online.
Like a lot of gamers I have always been a big fan of instances in MMOs. I have always loved killing bosses and finding a challenge that required a group to overcome. One thing I always disliked was trying to find a group, sometimes it would literally take hours. You would finally fill up your group and your ready to go, then someone has drop from the group and your back to searching for a member. Even worse is when you get your group together and clear some mobs in the instance, maybe even take down the first boss and then your tank or healer says, “ Sorry I g2g, thanks for group”. Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning attempts to find the solution to these problems with their much talked about Public Quest System.
Public Quests are area based multi-staged fights which lead you to a final boss. There is no taking the time to get your group together and then waiting at the entrance of an instance for everyone to get there. Just walk into certain areas and there will be a Public Quest ongoing (marked on your map with a treasure chest icon). Generally, the first stage will be killing X number of these creatures and the area is flooded with said creatures, although I have read that there is a great variety in the objectives given. The next stage usually consists of a group of harder mobs, this progression continues until you get to the final stage. The final stage is a boss fight. The boss is a much harder fight and requires a little more coordination than the previous fights. When you defeat the boss the group receives a chest of loot.
Read the article here.
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Jon Wood
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MMORPG.com
Comments
"Influence, which is built up alongside standard experience in the PQ can be used to buy goodies from an NPC. As mentioned above, there are three tiers for a PQ. Each tier grants XP and Influence. While there are a number of PQs in any given zone, they are repeatable if you are in need of Influence to buy a certain piece of armor or potion. The influence items are decent loot and it is a good way to gear up your character for the rest of your journey."
Just thought i'd high light some mis print. You don't "buy" influence gear from a vendor. You earn it and lose no money or points for garnering it. The only reward you have to earn and pay a nominal fee for are Renown gear rewards (which are sometime infinately better depending on the way you like to play your toon).
Normally I don't nitpick a correspondant but there's a huge difference between the words 'buy' and 'earn'. It could be considered misleading by those that are not in the game.
I agree that PQs are a nice innovation but you don't seem to have reached the point where you realise that...
1- Their all the same except for the creatures to kill (huge grind first stage)
2- Most people won't be able to do 90% of them because their too hard, not enough population, no population balance across the game
3- The rewards are always the same so if you want to grind for a purple bag you'll get 10x the same green bag beforehand
Well written sir.
I have a few issues with the PQ system, but from one correspondent to another, you wrote a very thoughtful, fact-filled story, that even not agreeing with all of it, I enjoyed reading and appreciate.
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...Now with that being said, I must say that I somewhat agree with Myrdek. I think the PQ's are awesome, and it's one of my favorite things to do in Warhammer, as, for some reason I don't enjoy the personal quests all that much, and I haven't gotten high enough to really get into RvR. My other favorite is the scenarios, love that experience gaining PvP (I mean, what's there not to love about that?).
However, I do have a problem with the looting system. It is like the Need system with one glitch...everyone in the area needs. So instead of maybe having to compete with 7 hunters in your raid, you have to compete with all 30 orcs surrounding you. I have done the same PQ (trying to build up my influence to get my gear), over and over again and not won once. That can be disheartening. Thankfully, you get the infulence no matter what (and the experience), so it's not a complete waste if you don't get any loot from the quest.
Another problem I have however, is an aesthetical one (if they haven't already fixed this). I am playing Order now, but during Preview Weekend and Open Beta, I was an orc (man I love those orcs...I wish they could be Order). And it really bothered me that when the final boss showed up, that he/she was the same size as any normal mob. So in my zone where there were only goblins, shaman and herders, and all the rest, Black Orcs, running around, there were no less than 15 Black Orcs all piled up on this mob. Man I had no idea what I was hitting, I was just pressing my buttons to hit something. Simply making the boss bigger, as if it were in a raid would fix this minor, but very annoying, issue. I want to feel immersed in the game. I don't want to just be swinging for the sake of doing so.
Other than those few things, I think PQ's are great, and I hope that a lot of other games do adopt this idea.
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Working On: The 5th Dimension (coming soon)
I was also going to mention this. You should definitely change the " buy " to " earn ". You just walk up to the Rally Master, select your reward and click accept. You pay no money and you do not lose influence.
PQ's are a good idea, but it's definitely "1.0" in implementation. There are massive inherent design flaws, mainly dealing with the fact that you are counting on other players to participate and if we've learned anything about MMOs this far is that you can't predict what players are going to want to do nor force them to do.
On many servers, even the high-pop ones., the PQ areas are dead in many cases. Therefore you can't complete them past the first stage. Sure, you can grind all the influence you want based on just the first stage... but is that really the intention of Mythic in the design of these things? No way.
So IMO at the moment, PQs are failing but that train of thought is a good one and I hope the find ways to improve it.
Huh....wait...wha? Is this true? Most gamers like instances? They suck imo.
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Well, it's really the same thing as spending influence. As far as I understand it, influence points are just another form of currency used to get the gear, but not used for anything else. It's just a mini-reputation system like in WoW but with less depth and fewer (much fewer) choices in rewards.
That's a good summary of the Public Quests (PQ). I keep giving my testimony, but I guess I feel it's needed, since there are so many trolls on these forums. I didn't care about the Warhammer IP and I didn't expect to like WAR, since I figured it'd be too influenced by WoW and not enough by DAoC, which was my first MMORPG. I was burnt out on MMORPGs and their community.
I've only been playing for over a week now, so to be fair, I could just have my rose colored glasses still on, but I think after 7 years of playing MMORPGs and playing upwards towards 20, I'd know if I like a game or not. WAR is absolutely fun, I have a hard time logging out when I should, and since we're on the subject of PQ's, they best the hell out of the Instances in WoW in both story and fun. Loot isn't a priority in this game, so you won't see a lot of it during PQ's like you would in a WoW instance, but you get plenty of story and killing, which is fun in the way Mythic packaged it.
The PvE in WAR is above par and is much more fun than WoW's PvE. Best thing about this is the PvP is really fun too.
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Confused by this statement... PvE is very much below par, especially right now with all the weird mob pathing and aggro bugs. They have the same type of quests... granted I haven't been in a dungeon yet (not sure what level those start at) but I find it hard they'll be able to match Blizzard's encounter design. Nothing so far in WAR indicates they will.
I've seen people complain about this, yet I've only once ever encountered it from chapters 1-7.
Not being able to count on other players has NEVER been an issue for me either. I think the issue is that people are so used to doing things on their own that nothing "holds" them there. I've found that as soon as I start inviting people to a group/warband, people hang around even though they've gotten the rep they need so that they can help others out. The community is there, I just think that the people who are a part of it don't reach out enough.
As for the article itself, I have to disagree on two points. One is that the PQ bosses drop good loot. I think maybe once I've seen them drop a green, but otherwise it's just the same trash that any other mob drops. What I have noticed though is that if you use Scavaging on their bodies, more often than not I get a blue or purple from them.
Also, I'm not exactly sure why, but the later chapters that I've played (4-7) have not once dropped bags that have any items over a green. In chapter 3 I managed a great roll and was top of the chart, and got a bag with some purple boots in it. But since then the PQs haven't dropped more than the green bags for players.
I completely enjoy the PQ's (it will be interesting to see how GW2 incorporates this concept for a comparison), and the RvR. There is plenty to do and see in this game. I'm curious as to the replayability of it though epsecially since you turn into chickens if you go down a tier of two. Not to mention you can't go down to help your friends that may just be starting. Oh well...until then I'll just enjoy what is there ;-)
PQ's are one of those things that make me scratch my head and ask, why didn't anyone else think of this? I've played quite a few mmo's over the years and I can't recall having seen this feature before.
So far I think it's an awesome feature. I love it. I've gotten some good rewards from PQ's, both as drops and later when turning in rep to get the rally master rewards.
Another innovative feature, is the ability to click a tab by your avatar and a list then drops down of all groups in your region. You can then self add yourself to a group. That is so nice. In other mmo's I hated to group because it took so long to get in a group, and I experienced many of the same problems grouping as the original poster.
And as far as T1 and T2, I think there are quite a few pve quests. More than enough to keep me busy. I find myself running scenarios a bit, then doing some pve quests which usually leads me across some PQ. Then I do the pq for awhile, and then when I get tired of that, I do some rvr or just explore. In short, I am loving this game.
It doesn't have the socially complex aspect of precu SWG, but in other areas WAR is so much fun. Really, I have not had this much fun since precu SWG, and even then the fun was more spaced out.
Influence you gain contributes to your guild rank which in turn enhances your guild. It is very important for any guild.
The items rewarded for increasing your chapter influence allows people who don't want to earn PvP gear to achieve a comparable level of equipment. In some cases the gear from influence is better.
I am honestly in love with the PQs. What a great way to wander into a small adventure without having to worry about finding a group. Find a PQ, simply join in the fray. Love the concept very much and hope it is expanded upon in the future.
Indeed, love the concept. Hope it gets more "polish" as well.
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Confused by this statement... PvE is very much below par, especially right now with all the weird mob pathing and aggro bugs. They have the same type of quests... granted I haven't been in a dungeon yet (not sure what level those start at) but I find it hard they'll be able to match Blizzard's encounter design. Nothing so far in WAR indicates they will.
I'm starting to believe you are either synical, which means you aren't even worth responding to, or you havne't played WAR, in which case, why are you posting here. The quests in WoW require you to do mundane things, that an adventurer wouldn't care about, and those things have no bearing on the world or story. In WAR, the quests have a purpose. The purpose is to fight off the opposing side, and every quest contributes to the story and war effort. In addition, you aren't asked to go collect x number of things from y whatever, which has a poor drop rate. When you are asked to kill and collect something, there is a 100% drop rate. If you are going to sit there and tell me that quests with a low drop rate are better than those with 100% drop rate are better, then our discussion ends here. If you are going to sit there and tell me that doing quests that have no bearing on the story or the game, such as killing all different kinds of animals for parts, with a bad drop rate, for a stew for some farmer is better than doing quests that all pertain to the story and the war and actually have a benefit for your side is better, then our discussion ends here.
Granted there are some story chain quests in WoW, but most aren't, and most of those quests people wouldn't do if they didn't offer great xp. Ask around in WAR why people do quests, when the rewards aren't as good as what you get from RvR and when you can get xp in RvR, and see what they respond with. It was asked on my server, in the area I was in and people responded with that it was fun and serves a purpose.
Every creature you encounter has a semi in-depth description in your tomb of knowledge and there are some Hero creatures that you encounter by accident that actually have a story. Every public quest is an expansion of the story going on around you. You can't sit there and honestly tell me WoW's PvE is more fun than WAR's when WAR offers all of this. PvE in WoW serves no purpose than to level and gear yourself up. PvE in WAR supports the war effort and every quest and every PQ is an extension of the main story.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
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I play Order on Sea of Malice. I find that PQs (like noob zones in general) are already ghost towns, which rattles me a little, since these weeks should be the PEAK server population. I think at this point, the only way to get over on the last two stages is to spam some announcement in region-wide chat so that all 8-10 people who might be around can show up at the same place instead of stand around in 1's and 2's at individual PQ's.
At least with the Stage system, you can still grind solo to get the points for reward gear in Stage I if you have to (and unless my guild organizes something, I HAVE to). The reward gear have proven to be the staples of my armament.
Also, I think Mythic's weighted random roll for loot is the least-worst option. If I show up at a PQ and see that I'm about the lowest level there, with the current system, I at least know I have a CHANCE to get the best prize. The alternative, where goody bags would already be alotted to the highest levels? Feh. Why bother if I don't need the points?
personally i find the PQ system depressing. there's never anyone around to be able to finish them and they're not solo'able. during open beta weekend when there were plenty of people to finish them, the casters couldn't be out dps'd so i'd finish the quest but never get any decent loot.
seems like a loose loose situation to me. i don't see why it's enjoyable to anyone simply because it's a different way of doing the same thing.
I think the author is confusing the Open Party system as only being a part of PQ's. While they are most frequently used there, the OP system is by no means tied only to that. I wish MMORPG.com staffers would fact check the correspondents that have posted lately as I have seen several things that are poorly expressed or just blatantly incorrect.
To address someone else's comment, I also have seen some of the PQ's being less populated than others but I think it's more due to people running the lower ones with alts (or trying to find a main class) or playing ahead (for the folks trying to cap level). In my guild, I've seen that there are fewer overall people at my level than well below or above due to my limited play time.
While I love the PQs, they have issues. One of the biggest in my opinion is that not all races have a tank class.
This is no problem if you are guilded or a little later in the game when there is a greater spread of classes and races across each realm, but early on it effects the playablity of some starting areas and inturn the enjoyment of those areas.
If you are guilded the PQs can be and are in most cases a blast.
I agree with the general sentiment. I've had good fun doing PQs, but it's been very hard to encounter enough people to finish them most of the time (this goes for open RvR areas as well. It just doesn't have a war or battle feeling if you're running around a big empty space with 3 toons capturing deserted control points).
I've been on the receiving end of the top contributor --> no reward issue myself a few times. Not fun. Especcially if you have been trying the PQ a few times, and finally have enough comrades to finish it. I just gave up at that point, unwilling to spend another 15 minutes of doing exactly the same thing as the last hour or so. I believe this would be called grinding
Maybe it's a problem with Order, but we seem to be in the minority. Open RvR is either deserted (see above) or it's 3 dwarves against the combined forces of destruction...
One more thing that I believe hasn't been mentioned yet, is the general difficulty level of those PQs. If you happen to do other things in the general vicinity of a PQ you better hope it doesn't advance to stage 2 or beyond. Suddenly you have Champions popping up around you, sending you to the healer in no time at all.
I hope both population will balance at some point and the PQs get some polish. The suggestion with the top contibutors being guaranteed a bag of some description is great, imho.
Battle on!
I agree sort of with your comments, but just for being top contributor shouldn't guarantee a loot bag, or at least no guarantee on the top loot bag.
Reason being is that if you have a character that is a few levels above what the PQ requires to participate effectively, then you are going to ace the contribution everytime. I suppose there is not much reason to do this, as the loot in the bags would not be any good for you anyway, but it is a concern.
As for population balance, I agree. They did a good job on trying to do something about it though, creating seperate queues for Order and Destruction to get into the server, although, in that case, another type of population balance comes into play, and thats the Race card. You could have all the order players suited up as Chaos, and none as Dark Elves, meaning that if there is an average or above average amount of High Elves, they will usually win out the day.
Either way, in regards to the article, I love PQ's. The loot isn't too bad, and you can always take the money. There is also crafting items in the loot bags if they take your fancy. Usually, there is 1 x Armour piece, 1 x Weapon, 3/4 x crafting, 1 x Money. I think thats about the spread. Might be another one in there somewhere, but i can't think of it off the top of my head.
They also, in PQ's, give you a little stacking bonus for everytime you are in a particular PQ and don't get any loot. Might be a small comfort, but it boosts your roll the next time you finish the PQ. If you don't get any again, the bonus is given again, adding to the previous one. Meaning that eventually, you will be given the loot if you keep on participating.
I remember reading (probably here) about the scenarios and how they seemed to be a little biased to one side. I do see that a bit with High Elves vs. Dark Elves (I am High Elf and we always seem to lose
). Might just be career balance issues at work here though, and they will probably be ironed out soon.
Actually, I not scratching my head, but ArenaNet already mentioned right when they made the anouncement of Guild Wars 2 that they were going to incorperate that into the the gameplay I'm just curious as to how they are going to do this...FYI.
i have the same impression
in my career of 5 characters all to lvl 10-20 i did finish exactly 1 public quest and that was in headstart phase. most of the time there arent people around to do them.
dont get me wrong, i really love them and i think every next gen mmo should implement those but:
1. we need a better player pooling thrueout the servers for pq and szenarios. i suggest you instance pq just like szenarios but maybe hide the fact that its instanced a bit more. for example do them in a canyon, cave or otherwise narrow area where it doesnt feel strange if players "pop up". then make it possible that players from all servers can enter a pq. i would suggest that with szenarios as well to have a broader base of players to recruit from.
2. make some of them mandatory. like "this pass will open only if the pq is completed"
this would create a bottleneck at certain levels and players have to work together to enter the next area
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