I agree with most of the OP's sentiments. However Darkfall is vaporware if I've ever seen it. Trust me, it is very easy to work up a list of features and screenshots like that.
so... you think it's easy to mock up over 600 screenshots, 7 videos representing about 30 minutes of game footage, and just under 250 single-spaced pages of developer interviews over 7 years, then sign contracts with a distributor and server provider and you think they would do all this just for a joke?
i have some beachfront property in Antarctica to sell you, PM me.
Introduction to hype 101, Adventurine is the king of such. Just because some dev says something does not make it true. Most of what Adventurine says we take with a grain of salt these days. They have lied so many times that even the wolf is laughing his butt off. We will have to wait and see when the game comes out what features are included and what are not. Don't go holding your breath, Darkfall won't see the light of day in 2008, might be 2009 though. If you want evidence of such, even the publisher was a no show at the recent Leipzig show. If they had a game that was even close to playable it would have been shown there.
This is typical Darkfall trolling, no truth and no facts. Give us a list of some of these supposed 'lies', including direct developer quotes... if you can. 99% of claims of 'lies' are just idiots who mis-read or over-read what the developers say.
Sure they have talked about beta a few times in the past, but they have never set a release date for the game until now.
As for conferences I would rather have a MMO developer devote 100% of their resources into making a top quality game instead of blowing money going to conferences to hype their game then delivering crappy gameplay (*cough* AoC).
The MMO industry needs a wake-up call that it can't make shitty games and expect players to pay then while they add the gameplay and polish that should have been there in the first place.
I got a chuckle from this reply. Proof you want, there is so much proof on the web it is overwhelming. Just to start this is their 3rd beta announcement and we still have no beta yet. Adventurine has produced so many "it is coming soon" announcements that media just ignores them now.
Sorry any publisher in the business is going to show a working game at the first show they can. Hence it is clearly evident they don't have a playable game yet as Leipzig was just a few weeks ago. How in the world are they going to get a beta out next month?
You people are clearly delusional over this title. I can understand the want for something other than a another Wow clone, but Adventurine has been leading us on for years with nothing except a few screen shots. Now they make one video and you want to annoint them? Thanks, but I need something a bit more solid from them more than the host of missed promises they have given us so far.
In other words.... you can't provide any proof, like I said. You just repeat your Darkfall hate mantra without investigating it. Thanks for proving my point.
Proving what point? That Adventurine speaks with forked tongue? Hardly a hate mantra when I just point out the facts you so conveniently ignore. Most of us here would love to see Adventurine produce something playable, close to what they describe on the website. We just don't have much confidence in them anymore after all the charades they have put us through. It is time for Adventurine to put up or shut up.
Introduction to hype 101, Adventurine is the king of such. Just because some dev says something does not make it true. Most of what Adventurine says we take with a grain of salt these days. They have lied so many times that even the wolf is laughing his butt off. We will have to wait and see when the game comes out what features are included and what are not. Don't go holding your breath, Darkfall won't see the light of day in 2008, might be 2009 though. If you want evidence of such, even the publisher was a no show at the recent Leipzig show. If they had a game that was even close to playable it would have been shown there.
This is typical Darkfall trolling, no truth and no facts. Give us a list of some of these supposed 'lies', including direct developer quotes... if you can. 99% of claims of 'lies' are just idiots who mis-read or over-read what the developers say.
Sure they have talked about beta a few times in the past, but they have never set a release date for the game until now.
As for conferences I would rather have a MMO developer devote 100% of their resources into making a top quality game instead of blowing money going to conferences to hype their game then delivering crappy gameplay (*cough* AoC).
The MMO industry needs a wake-up call that it can't make shitty games and expect players to pay then while they add the gameplay and polish that should have been there in the first place.
I got a chuckle from this reply. Proof you want, there is so much proof on the web it is overwhelming. Just to start this is their 3rd beta announcement and we still have no beta yet. Adventurine has produced so many "it is coming soon" announcements that media just ignores them now.
Sorry any publisher in the business is going to show a working game at the first show they can. Hence it is clearly evident they don't have a playable game yet as Leipzig was just a few weeks ago. How in the world are they going to get a beta out next month?
You people are clearly delusional over this title. I can understand the want for something other than a another Wow clone, but Adventurine has been leading us on for years with nothing except a few screen shots. Now they make one video and you want to annoint them? Thanks, but I need something a bit more solid from them more than the host of missed promises they have given us so far.
In other words.... you can't provide any proof, like I said. You just repeat your Darkfall hate mantra without investigating it. Thanks for proving my point.
Proving what point? That Adventurine speaks with forked tongue? Hardly a hate mantra when I just point out the facts you so conveniently ignore. Most of us here would love to see Adventurine produce something playable, close to what they describe on the website. We just don't have much confidence in them anymore after all the charades they have put us through. It is time for Adventurine to put up or shut up.
So where are these lies you reckon they have told? Please provide actual developer quotes. As I said, 99% of what trolls call "lies" are due to people naively or deliberately mis-interpreting what has been said, not what was actually said. It's a fact that Aventurine have never missed a release date because 2008 is the first *official* release date they have given us.
Good post OP. While I'm happy that DF is actually a game personally I think it looks way too dated to be considered Next gen. Sure its a sandbox, ffa pvp, skill based game with FP combat but in no way is this game Next gen. UO + Oblivion = Darkfall I will try DF but to be honest Earthrise is the game im hoping will be the next big thing.
"Next generation" is an objective term, and it surely depends from person to person. I personally like medieval-fantasy themed MMORPGs, and I've played my share of them, got frustrated way too many times, and found my "next big thing" finally.
I think Darkfall is revolutionary, not because they've invented those novelties - we players, and many other game developers all probably imagined a game without endless grinds, more active combat and more serious risk management systems such as FFA full loot PvP one way or another, however Aventurine showed the courage to implement it to Darkfall. All we can hope is, they will succeed.
I appreciate other opinions, and understand the sentiment of mistrust for the game since they've announced beta dates they couldn't achieve in the past years. However, Aventurine have regularly kept their given promises in the past two years, and the announcement of release deadline is "the big hope". I believe, the negative stance towards the game will be turned upside down once the Beta stage begins next month, and the game will reach to its deserved popularity soon.
We're trying to introduce the game again to all those who have kept an eye on it for a little while in the past but got frustrated, and to those new people who were not aware of the game before. Now that it's really getting to somewhere and exciting news bundling up, I recommend and expect people to visit or re-visit the game website and discover more. You can take a look at Darkfall forums and see the change/activity/excitement these days. We just had three fresh threads in the last two days with links to news from 3 different media organizations about the game. We're told by the devs that we should expect even bigger interviews/previews from some popular magazines and websites to be published in a few days.
In the meanwhile, Earthrise will be on my list of games to check; perhaps it may be interesting to try a fresh new genre of sci-fi MMORPG with FFA PvP.
Introduction to hype 101, Adventurine is the king of such. Just because some dev says something does not make it true. Most of what Adventurine says we take with a grain of salt these days. They have lied so many times that even the wolf is laughing his butt off. We will have to wait and see when the game comes out what features are included and what are not. Don't go holding your breath, Darkfall won't see the light of day in 2008, might be 2009 though. If you want evidence of such, even the publisher was a no show at the recent Leipzig show. If they had a game that was even close to playable it would have been shown there.
This is typical Darkfall trolling, no truth and no facts. Give us a list of some of these supposed 'lies', including direct developer quotes... if you can. 99% of claims of 'lies' are just idiots who mis-read or over-read what the developers say.
Sure they have talked about beta a few times in the past, but they have never set a release date for the game until now.
As for conferences I would rather have a MMO developer devote 100% of their resources into making a top quality game instead of blowing money going to conferences to hype their game then delivering crappy game play (*cough* AoC).
The MMO industry needs a wake-up call that it can't make shitty games and expect players to pay then while they add the game play and polish that should have been there in the first place.
I got a chuckle from this reply. Proof you want, there is so much proof on the web it is overwhelming. Just to start this is their 3rd beta announcement and we still have no beta yet. Adventurine has produced so many "it is coming soon" announcements that media just ignores them now.
Sorry any publisher in the business is going to show a working game at the first show they can. Hence it is clearly evident they don't have a playable game yet as Leipzig was just a few weeks ago. How in the world are they going to get a beta out next month?
You people are clearly delusional over this title. I can understand the want for something other than a another Wow clone, but Adventurine has been leading us on for years with nothing except a few screen shots. Now they make one video and you want to anoint them? Thanks, but I need something a bit more solid from them more than the host of missed promises they have given us so far.
In other words.... you can't provide any proof, like I said. You just repeat your Darkfall hate mantra without investigating it. Thanks for proving my point.
Proving what point? That Adventurine speaks with forked tongue? Hardly a hate mantra when I just point out the facts you so conveniently ignore. Most of us here would love to see Adventurine produce something playable, close to what they describe on the website. We just don't have much confidence in them anymore after all the charades they have put us through. It is time for Adventurine to put up or shut up.
So where are these lies you reckon they have told? Please provide actual developer quotes. As I said, 99% of what trolls call "lies" are due to people naively or deliberately mis-interpreting what has been said, not what was actually said. It's a fact that Aventurine have never missed a release date because 2008 is the first *official* release date they have given us.
I don't need to quote anything, just google "darkfall missed dates" and it will give you over 10 pages. I need say no more. Next time use an argument that does not have overwhelming evidence against you.
I would not be surprised if there was a wiki out there for "missed dates" with Darkfall highlighted as a prominent example.
Hmmm I have yet to see any of the self-called "Hard-core" players clamouring for a game to have perma-death, too "Hard-Core" for a majority of them then?
I laugh when I read them about how good is full loot and how hardcore they are defending that... but... with easily replaceable and cheap gear please
WALL OF TEXT Aventurine, the developers of Darkfall have officially announced a release date for the "first time" in 7 years of their game development (7 years can easily be considered common when compared to other MMORPG games)
I mean nothing personal by this, but I've noticed a herd of Darkfall fans on this forum who will not get their facts straight about development time with games. So OP, I'd like to show you these games that took far less time. Proving that 7 years is nowhere near considered common when compared to other MMORPG games developed.
WoW Development time: 4 years. (not counting two expansions also being released in less than 7 years time from original development)
EQ2 Development time: Less than or equal to WoW's dev time. (not counting several free updates, and even more expansions in less time)
Dungeons & Dragons Online: Stormreach: Approximately 2 years of development.
WAR: The Warhammer Online license was acquired by Mythic on May 18, 2005 and was lost by Climax Online in late 2004. It's being released Sept. 2008. Companies do not normally make development time for a game they don't own yet. And no serious development till a distribution method is guaranteed.
Dark Age of Camelot: Mythic started Dark Age of Camelot development in late 1999 and released in 2001. That's less than half of Darkfall's development time.
I'm not saying Darkfall will be a failure, but I am tired of seeing fans of the game act like they know this industry because the Darkfall boards/team said "well everyone else is wrong". And I am indeed looking forward to seeing what 7 years of development can create.
Introduction to hype 101, Adventurine is the king of such. Just because some dev says something does not make it true. Most of what Adventurine says we take with a grain of salt these days. They have lied so many times that even the wolf is laughing his butt off. We will have to wait and see when the game comes out what features are included and what are not. Don't go holding your breath, Darkfall won't see the light of day in 2008, might be 2009 though. If you want evidence of such, even the publisher was a no show at the recent Leipzig show. If they had a game that was even close to playable it would have been shown there.
This is typical Darkfall trolling, no truth and no facts. Give us a list of some of these supposed 'lies', including direct developer quotes... if you can. 99% of claims of 'lies' are just idiots who mis-read or over-read what the developers say.
Sure they have talked about beta a few times in the past, but they have never set a release date for the game until now.
As for conferences I would rather have a MMO developer devote 100% of their resources into making a top quality game instead of blowing money going to conferences to hype their game then delivering crappy game play (*cough* AoC).
The MMO industry needs a wake-up call that it can't make shitty games and expect players to pay then while they add the game play and polish that should have been there in the first place.
I got a chuckle from this reply. Proof you want, there is so much proof on the web it is overwhelming. Just to start this is their 3rd beta announcement and we still have no beta yet. Adventurine has produced so many "it is coming soon" announcements that media just ignores them now.
Sorry any publisher in the business is going to show a working game at the first show they can. Hence it is clearly evident they don't have a playable game yet as Leipzig was just a few weeks ago. How in the world are they going to get a beta out next month?
You people are clearly delusional over this title. I can understand the want for something other than a another Wow clone, but Adventurine has been leading us on for years with nothing except a few screen shots. Now they make one video and you want to anoint them? Thanks, but I need something a bit more solid from them more than the host of missed promises they have given us so far.
In other words.... you can't provide any proof, like I said. You just repeat your Darkfall hate mantra without investigating it. Thanks for proving my point.
Proving what point? That Adventurine speaks with forked tongue? Hardly a hate mantra when I just point out the facts you so conveniently ignore. Most of us here would love to see Adventurine produce something playable, close to what they describe on the website. We just don't have much confidence in them anymore after all the charades they have put us through. It is time for Adventurine to put up or shut up.
So where are these lies you reckon they have told? Please provide actual developer quotes. As I said, 99% of what trolls call "lies" are due to people naively or deliberately mis-interpreting what has been said, not what was actually said. It's a fact that Aventurine have never missed a release date because 2008 is the first *official* release date they have given us.
I don't need to quote anything, just google "darkfall missed dates" and it will give you over 10 pages. I need say no more. Next time use an argument that does not have overwhelming evidence against you.
I would not be surprised if there was a wiki out there for "missed dates" with Darkfall highlighted as a prominent example.
I'm amazed with your proof. Check google now, a new link has been added to "darkfall missed dates" search which directs to your post. Very factual and true indeed - although you can't show any missed release date announcement from Aventurine.
Still, who cares about factuality when you can lie and speculate as you wish and let the rest of the forum decide what to do; to believe you and your speculations or make a little bit of research and find out what the devs really said - which is a hard task for so many of them.
We're quoting the devs for what they've said, and you address google to only redirect us to your comments and other trolls speculations and say "I don't need to quote anything". Well done.
I'm amazed with your proof. Check google now, a new link has been added to "darkfall missed dates" search which directs to your post. Very factual and true indeed - although you can't show any missed release date announcement from Aventurine.
I think there is a confusion over missed beta-test dates and missed release dates.
Aventurine has been notorious for missing beta-test dates during this game's seven year development. It is true, however, that they have never missed a release date because they've never said anything concrete in all that time. This is the first solid release date they have ever given so it is correct that they haven't missed it.
But if we can remember MMORPG history and all the other games that have come before, it wouldn't be anything all that unusual if the release date was missed. What matters is how many times it is missed, and now that Aventurine has committed down that path, we all get to see how they do.
Good post OP. While I'm happy that DF is actually a game personally I think it looks way too dated to be considered Next gen. Sure its a sandbox, ffa pvp, skill based game with FP combat but in no way is this game Next gen. UO + Oblivion = Darkfall I will try DF but to be honest Earthrise is the game im hoping will be the next big thing.
I feel it's a bit sad that you seem to equate 'next-gen' with graphics. Sure, you can have 'next-gen graphics' and that's all well and good, but great graphics do not a great game make; AoC is a case in point -- great graphics, crappy game.
Darkfall does not have 'next-gen graphics', though i don't thinktheyarethatfarfrom. It is, I believe, still a 'next-gen' MMO, because of the new levels of gameplay, freedom and immersion it offers.
without getting into too much detail:
1) gameplay -- real-time combat. 100% manual aiming and blocking. mounts/mounted combat. ships/naval combat. city building and sieging. player housing. explicit support for 200v200 battles. all weapons/armour/items/ships/props in the game are player craftable. dynamic quests.
2) freedom -- huge zoneless world. no classes. no levels. spec exactly how you like. full-looting. travel anywhere in the world, there are no zones/invisible barriers/restrictions. player actions have direct consequences on alignment. no safe-zones. no restrictions on what you can build, destroy or attack.
3) immersion -- no instances. friendly-fire. collision detection. real-world physics. arrows and spells have knockback. no player radar. bloodspray and visible damage. full scene dynamic shadows. "true" stealth. dynamic mob spawns. enhanced mob AI. real-world weather. day/night cycles based on a real planetary system of 2 orbiting moons. wind that blows the grass and branches of trees.
if all that together in one MMO is not 'next-gen' then i don't know what is.
let's just hope the beta lives up to its feature list.
It's the manual block and aimming in 200v200 battles that makes me really wonder. I don't think it can be done without alot of people whinning about how lag killed them. I'd like to see it happen but I have large doubts about it working well.
Personally I think "skills" are overrated for mmo's. What good are your skills going to do against a guy with 100 ms lower ping?
Also I disagree that clicking a button and waiting for cooldown takes no skill. The skill is in what order and how you use those buttons. Anyone who has evered played a mmo can attest to the fact that there are some people who can't play thier class well and there are some who can. That's skill(or lack of). Skill isn't found in the lack of cooldown timers, 100% manual aim, etc. It's found in any game.
For me I might give darkfall a try. But I'm staying away right now. The art for the outfits looks awful. There's no fun in it for me in an uber game if I look like a 5 year old made an outfit and put it on me.
I do like the evil clown race though. I hope they die alot. Die evil sword clowns, die.
Kinda started skipping posts once I saw the typical responses I'd expect to see in a DF thread.. But great OP.
I'm not sure if next-gen is the best term as a lot of DF's concepts have been done one way or another. Albeit, if they are able to make the 200v200 battles with collision detection runs well performance wise, maybe next-gen will be appropriate. I'd say it's moreso visionary for going against the WoW norm of nearly all MMO's nowadays.
Development time has been rediculously long but in my eyes, that just gives insight into the mindset of the developers. More time, more money sunk into the game, but at least the final product will be solid. It sorta reminds me of (dare I say) Blizzard's approach to games, not setting a release date early so that they will always ship a solid game that isn't rushed (SC2). Criticizing them for this is silly imo.
Of course there will be nay-sayers yelling DF will never succeed and chances are it will fail, the odds are against them... But the sheep can go back to rolling the dice for the X'th time trying to get the next piece of epic gear, repeating the same raid pattern over again, the rest of us will be having a blast in Darkfall's sandbox.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Self-confessed DF fanboy. Finally a real ****ing MMO.
Kinda started skipping posts once I saw the typical responses I'd expect to see in a DF thread.. But great OP. I'm not sure if next-gen is the best term as a lot of DF's concepts have been done one way or another. Albeit, if they are able to make the 200v200 battles with collision detection runs well performance wise, maybe next-gen will be appropriate. I'd say it's moreso visionary for going against the WoW norm of nearly all MMO's nowadays. Development time has been rediculously long but in my eyes, that just gives insight into the mindset of the developers. More time, more money sunk into the game, but at least the final product will be solid. It sorta reminds me of (dare I say) Blizzard's approach to games, not setting a release date early so that they will always ship a solid game that isn't rushed (SC2). Criticizing them for this is silly imo. Of course there will be nay-sayers yelling DF will never succeed and chances are it will fail, the odds are against them... But the sheep can go back to rolling the dice for the X'th time trying to get the next piece of epic gear, repeating the same raid pattern over again, the rest of us will be having a blast in Darkfall's sandbox.
I guess we agree that AoC's problem was their rush for releasing the game. Aventurine seems very careful not to repeat FunCom's mistakes and release Darkfall early.
People are not learning from this, and keep criticizing Aventurine for lying or giving false hopes to their community. Don't you all see that MMORPG player community is part of the reason why so many games are failing lately? That when ever developers delay their release (and in Darkfall's case, it was just the Beta stage - not even the release..), there emerges a fast reproducing species called "trolls" spreading vaporware speculations in every single forum related to the game.
Aventurine has not delayed its announced date for release and it's still due the end of the year, most likely by Christmas. However, I'd be supportive and wait patiently if they'd decide to move the release date 2-3 months.
Yeah, I sincerely hope it's out before 2009. I'm trying to stay positive but my patience is wearing out.
I actually didn't bother with AoC since I didn't get a great vibe from it. If anything, I planned on joining in later on... Who knows, maybe with the new boss, things will change enough to make it a decent game.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Self-confessed DF fanboy. Finally a real ****ing MMO.
Aventurine has been notorious for missing beta-test dates during this game's seven year development.
That depends technically speaking they never said Beta Starts April 4 2005, or Beta Starts October 19th 2008; all they said is that there will be a beta but they never ever gave a specific dates. You guys have to realize that this game had at least 2 to 3 years of concept development stage + 5 years of actual development. The game is there, people when there to visit there were interviews done, you can see progression in screenshots and movies.
Don't knock them for actaully giving a shit and taking their time, most MMO companies don't give a rats ass and they don't show the kind of progression in screens and movies; Aventurine has done this since the beginning and they don't spend 90% of their budget on advertisement like some of these other companies do they take that money and pump it all into the game. Aventurine has been more open with the community then any other developer out there, but they certainly wont hold anybody's hand because they know that this has never been attempted ever before on this massive scale so you can't really fault them for not sticking to some imaginary date.
BTW Tasos only said that they would like to release in 2008, but remeber this answer to beta and release can be perceived in several different ways; just because they would LIKE TO does not necessairly mean that they will. There will be delays just like in any other game, but when you're making a game like DF delays are the norm; who knows you might see beta by the end of 2008 which I DOUBT, but even if there is a beta it will last for at least 3 to 4 months if not longer.
My prediction beta 1st quarter 2009, release 3rd quarter 2009.
^^^ great post, i wish more gamers realised that the Blizzard/Aventurine approach to game development (when it's done, damnit), is what this genre needs more than anything. it needs to break away from the mainstream WOW-mould as well, and for this reason if nothing else, people should be hoping Darkfall succeeds.
personally i think beta is right around the corner, the release, too hard to tell until we try the beta.
WALL OF TEXT Aventurine, the developers of Darkfall have officially announced a release date for the "first time" in 7 years of their game development (7 years can easily be considered common when compared to other MMORPG games)
I mean nothing personal by this, but I've noticed a herd of Darkfall fans on this forum who will not get their facts straight about development time with games. So OP, I'd like to show you these games that took far less time. Proving that 7 years is nowhere near considered common when compared to other MMORPG games developed.
WoW Development time: 4 years. (not counting two expansions also being released in less than 7 years time from original development)
EQ2 Development time: Less than or equal to WoW's dev time. (not counting several free updates, and even more expansions in less time)
Dungeons & Dragons Online: Stormreach: Approximately 2 years of development.
WAR: The Warhammer Online license was acquired by Mythic on May 18, 2005 and was lost by Climax Online in late 2004. It's being released Sept. 2008. Companies do not normally make development time for a game they don't own yet. And no serious development till a distribution method is guaranteed.
Dark Age of Camelot: Mythic started Dark Age of Camelot development in late 1999 and released in 2001. That's less than half of Darkfall's development time.
I'm not saying Darkfall will be a failure, but I am tired of seeing fans of the game act like they know this industry because the Darkfall boards/team said "well everyone else is wrong". And I am indeed looking forward to seeing what 7 years of development can create.
You're absolutely right, it's my mistake and I apologize. I just thought that there were a few other MMORPGs which also took 7 years. I've checked Wikipedia, and saw that the maximum was 5 years.
However, it all comes down to the success of the game after release, and if Aventurine will keep their promises or not.
I'm not sure what you meant by "well everyone else is wrong"; that certainly had not been Aventurine's excuse for their delays if that's what you meant.
WALL OF TEXT Aventurine, the developers of Darkfall have officially announced a release date for the "first time" in 7 years of their game development (7 years can easily be considered common when compared to other MMORPG games)
I mean nothing personal by this, but I've noticed a herd of Darkfall fans on this forum who will not get their facts straight about development time with games. So OP, I'd like to show you these games that took far less time. Proving that 7 years is nowhere near considered common when compared to other MMORPG games developed.
WoW Development time: 4 years. (not counting two expansions also being released in less than 7 years time from original development)
EQ2 Development time: Less than or equal to WoW's dev time. (not counting several free updates, and even more expansions in less time)
Dungeons & Dragons Online: Stormreach: Approximately 2 years of development.
WAR: The Warhammer Online license was acquired by Mythic on May 18, 2005 and was lost by Climax Online in late 2004. It's being released Sept. 2008. Companies do not normally make development time for a game they don't own yet. And no serious development till a distribution method is guaranteed.
Dark Age of Camelot: Mythic started Dark Age of Camelot development in late 1999 and released in 2001. That's less than half of Darkfall's development time.
I'm not saying Darkfall will be a failure, but I am tired of seeing fans of the game act like they know this industry because the Darkfall boards/team said "well everyone else is wrong". And I am indeed looking forward to seeing what 7 years of development can create.
You're absolutely right, it's my mistake and I apologize. I just thought that there were a few other MMORPGs which also took 7 years. I've checked Wikipedia, and saw that the maximum was 5 years.
However, it all comes down to the success of the game after release, and if Aventurine will keep their promises or not.
I'm not sure what you meant by "well everyone else is wrong"; that certainly had not been Aventurine's excuse for their delays if that's what you meant.
I think LoTRO took a long time too, depending on what you count.
I somehow doubt that DF has been in 7 years of 100 percent full on development.
____________________________________________ im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
Two main issues that I'll try to answer briefly in this post; 1- Skill system being another type of grind, 2- Darkfall community seeking victims to gank/grief rather than more players. 1- I agree that UO was a skill grind with respect to level/item grind of our current main-stream games. I remember doing hours of 8x8 tiling trick to gain those .1s to ding 100, I've grand-mastered 32 different skills during the 10 years I've played - I know a little about how repetitive it can get. However, you should all know that Darkfall developers are also ex-UO players and "they've been there, done that". They have several quotes on how they are committed to minimize both item and skill grinding. We've already discussed how they will minimize the item grinding; by giving full access to crafters, and taking soulbound items out of the game - in addition, every item in game will decay in time. They've claimed that maxing out a character to desired skill caps to be able to fight in battlegrounds and be effective on PvP will take significantly less effort than any current MMORPG, and definitely much less than what we (and they) have been accustomed to in UO. Furthermore, since the game is planned to be one character per server, they are focusing on extensive character flexibility, meaning that you will be able to switch your warrior to a mage by dropping some skills (like heavy armor wearing / swordsmanship / parrying, etc.), and training your self in others (focusing / greater fire / necromancy) - this process of transition won't happen instantly but it will take relatively less time to get to desired skill set; in other words, you won't have to re-roll (since many skills like running / jumping etc.) serve both types equally. 2- It is funny how some of you've listed this as the main reason why you won't play the game, honestly it sounds a little inferior and inconfident. The fact that the game is free-for-all full loot does not mean that everyone else will be ganking you, you will have access to their loots and be able to fight back. It doesn't mean he/she will have any extra skills since he has been watching Darkfall for a year more than you do. What happened to your PvP experience you've gained over the vast numbers of MMORPGs you've played all this time? Trust me, that the guy in Forumfall rubbing his hands for "noobs" - you so much like to quote here at every occasion - are probably not much better at PvP than you are. It's mroe about player skills, and we all are most likely be at the same player skills when the game is first released. You know why so many people like the full loot idea? It's that hand-sweating adrenaline-pump that you feel when you play such a game like Darkfall - to know that if you loose the next duel, your favorite item will be on your opponents hand. It won't match loosing an epic/purple item, you will buy it the next day from your favorite vendor, or craft it on your own; perhaps you already have another spare on your bank for bad surprises. However, you know that if you're not careful, you will be penalized - lightly. You watch your back when you hunt solo in your favorite dungeon, in a flight-or-fight stance. Any pre-AoS UO player knows that feeling very well. It's addictive, and makes you crave for that excitement. We've been craving for that excitement for so many years my friends. There is finally a hope that another game will provide us some of that, and much more.
I play a game where I fear losing my favorite item......its called Halo 3.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day. And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
Enough of these EQ/wow clones, bring on the modernised UO. The very first time I get to punch a d...head in the face, even tho he's the same race as me will be a very, very sweet day. I'm not overly fussed if it doesn't pull the same numbers as WOW, Eve Online already shows us that there exists enough players interested in a quality sandbox game to support multiple 10k+ servers.
Comments
so... you think it's easy to mock up over 600 screenshots, 7 videos representing about 30 minutes of game footage, and just under 250 single-spaced pages of developer interviews over 7 years, then sign contracts with a distributor and server provider and you think they would do all this just for a joke?
i have some beachfront property in Antarctica to sell you, PM me.
Evidently not many programmers here ;-)
Programmers are usually all for sandbox join the crowd
Evidently not many programmers here ;-)
Programmers are usually all for sandbox join the crowd
true... i think sandbox games generally attract an older/more mature audience anyway.
This is typical Darkfall trolling, no truth and no facts. Give us a list of some of these supposed 'lies', including direct developer quotes... if you can. 99% of claims of 'lies' are just idiots who mis-read or over-read what the developers say.
Sure they have talked about beta a few times in the past, but they have never set a release date for the game until now.
As for conferences I would rather have a MMO developer devote 100% of their resources into making a top quality game instead of blowing money going to conferences to hype their game then delivering crappy gameplay (*cough* AoC).
The MMO industry needs a wake-up call that it can't make shitty games and expect players to pay then while they add the gameplay and polish that should have been there in the first place.
I got a chuckle from this reply. Proof you want, there is so much proof on the web it is overwhelming. Just to start this is their 3rd beta announcement and we still have no beta yet. Adventurine has produced so many "it is coming soon" announcements that media just ignores them now.
Sorry any publisher in the business is going to show a working game at the first show they can. Hence it is clearly evident they don't have a playable game yet as Leipzig was just a few weeks ago. How in the world are they going to get a beta out next month?
You people are clearly delusional over this title. I can understand the want for something other than a another Wow clone, but Adventurine has been leading us on for years with nothing except a few screen shots. Now they make one video and you want to annoint them? Thanks, but I need something a bit more solid from them more than the host of missed promises they have given us so far.
In other words.... you can't provide any proof, like I said. You just repeat your Darkfall hate mantra without investigating it. Thanks for proving my point.
Proving what point? That Adventurine speaks with forked tongue? Hardly a hate mantra when I just point out the facts you so conveniently ignore. Most of us here would love to see Adventurine produce something playable, close to what they describe on the website. We just don't have much confidence in them anymore after all the charades they have put us through. It is time for Adventurine to put up or shut up.
This is typical Darkfall trolling, no truth and no facts. Give us a list of some of these supposed 'lies', including direct developer quotes... if you can. 99% of claims of 'lies' are just idiots who mis-read or over-read what the developers say.
Sure they have talked about beta a few times in the past, but they have never set a release date for the game until now.
As for conferences I would rather have a MMO developer devote 100% of their resources into making a top quality game instead of blowing money going to conferences to hype their game then delivering crappy gameplay (*cough* AoC).
The MMO industry needs a wake-up call that it can't make shitty games and expect players to pay then while they add the gameplay and polish that should have been there in the first place.
I got a chuckle from this reply. Proof you want, there is so much proof on the web it is overwhelming. Just to start this is their 3rd beta announcement and we still have no beta yet. Adventurine has produced so many "it is coming soon" announcements that media just ignores them now.
Sorry any publisher in the business is going to show a working game at the first show they can. Hence it is clearly evident they don't have a playable game yet as Leipzig was just a few weeks ago. How in the world are they going to get a beta out next month?
You people are clearly delusional over this title. I can understand the want for something other than a another Wow clone, but Adventurine has been leading us on for years with nothing except a few screen shots. Now they make one video and you want to annoint them? Thanks, but I need something a bit more solid from them more than the host of missed promises they have given us so far.
In other words.... you can't provide any proof, like I said. You just repeat your Darkfall hate mantra without investigating it. Thanks for proving my point.
Proving what point? That Adventurine speaks with forked tongue? Hardly a hate mantra when I just point out the facts you so conveniently ignore. Most of us here would love to see Adventurine produce something playable, close to what they describe on the website. We just don't have much confidence in them anymore after all the charades they have put us through. It is time for Adventurine to put up or shut up.
So where are these lies you reckon they have told? Please provide actual developer quotes. As I said, 99% of what trolls call "lies" are due to people naively or deliberately mis-interpreting what has been said, not what was actually said. It's a fact that Aventurine have never missed a release date because 2008 is the first *official* release date they have given us.
God I hope DF isn't a failure, so you fanaticals will be to busy playing to whine and cry on gaming forums.
Good post OP.
While I'm happy that DF is actually a game personally I think it looks way too dated to be considered Next gen.
Sure its a sandbox, ffa pvp, skill based game with FP combat but in no way is this game Next gen.
UO + Oblivion = Darkfall
I will try DF but to be honest Earthrise is the game im hoping will be the next big thing.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
"Next generation" is an objective term, and it surely depends from person to person. I personally like medieval-fantasy themed MMORPGs, and I've played my share of them, got frustrated way too many times, and found my "next big thing" finally.
I think Darkfall is revolutionary, not because they've invented those novelties - we players, and many other game developers all probably imagined a game without endless grinds, more active combat and more serious risk management systems such as FFA full loot PvP one way or another, however Aventurine showed the courage to implement it to Darkfall. All we can hope is, they will succeed.
I appreciate other opinions, and understand the sentiment of mistrust for the game since they've announced beta dates they couldn't achieve in the past years. However, Aventurine have regularly kept their given promises in the past two years, and the announcement of release deadline is "the big hope". I believe, the negative stance towards the game will be turned upside down once the Beta stage begins next month, and the game will reach to its deserved popularity soon.
We're trying to introduce the game again to all those who have kept an eye on it for a little while in the past but got frustrated, and to those new people who were not aware of the game before. Now that it's really getting to somewhere and exciting news bundling up, I recommend and expect people to visit or re-visit the game website and discover more. You can take a look at Darkfall forums and see the change/activity/excitement these days. We just had three fresh threads in the last two days with links to news from 3 different media organizations about the game. We're told by the devs that we should expect even bigger interviews/previews from some popular magazines and websites to be published in a few days.
In the meanwhile, Earthrise will be on my list of games to check; perhaps it may be interesting to try a fresh new genre of sci-fi MMORPG with FFA PvP.
This is typical Darkfall trolling, no truth and no facts. Give us a list of some of these supposed 'lies', including direct developer quotes... if you can. 99% of claims of 'lies' are just idiots who mis-read or over-read what the developers say.
Sure they have talked about beta a few times in the past, but they have never set a release date for the game until now.
As for conferences I would rather have a MMO developer devote 100% of their resources into making a top quality game instead of blowing money going to conferences to hype their game then delivering crappy game play (*cough* AoC).
The MMO industry needs a wake-up call that it can't make shitty games and expect players to pay then while they add the game play and polish that should have been there in the first place.
I got a chuckle from this reply. Proof you want, there is so much proof on the web it is overwhelming. Just to start this is their 3rd beta announcement and we still have no beta yet. Adventurine has produced so many "it is coming soon" announcements that media just ignores them now.
Sorry any publisher in the business is going to show a working game at the first show they can. Hence it is clearly evident they don't have a playable game yet as Leipzig was just a few weeks ago. How in the world are they going to get a beta out next month?
You people are clearly delusional over this title. I can understand the want for something other than a another Wow clone, but Adventurine has been leading us on for years with nothing except a few screen shots. Now they make one video and you want to anoint them? Thanks, but I need something a bit more solid from them more than the host of missed promises they have given us so far.
In other words.... you can't provide any proof, like I said. You just repeat your Darkfall hate mantra without investigating it. Thanks for proving my point.
Proving what point? That Adventurine speaks with forked tongue? Hardly a hate mantra when I just point out the facts you so conveniently ignore. Most of us here would love to see Adventurine produce something playable, close to what they describe on the website. We just don't have much confidence in them anymore after all the charades they have put us through. It is time for Adventurine to put up or shut up.
So where are these lies you reckon they have told? Please provide actual developer quotes. As I said, 99% of what trolls call "lies" are due to people naively or deliberately mis-interpreting what has been said, not what was actually said. It's a fact that Aventurine have never missed a release date because 2008 is the first *official* release date they have given us.
I don't need to quote anything, just google "darkfall missed dates" and it will give you over 10 pages. I need say no more. Next time use an argument that does not have overwhelming evidence against you.
I would not be surprised if there was a wiki out there for "missed dates" with Darkfall highlighted as a prominent example.
I laugh when I read them about how good is full loot and how hardcore they are defending that... but... with easily replaceable and cheap gear please
I mean nothing personal by this, but I've noticed a herd of Darkfall fans on this forum who will not get their facts straight about development time with games. So OP, I'd like to show you these games that took far less time. Proving that 7 years is nowhere near considered common when compared to other MMORPG games developed.
WoW Development time: 4 years. (not counting two expansions also being released in less than 7 years time from original development)
EQ2 Development time: Less than or equal to WoW's dev time. (not counting several free updates, and even more expansions in less time)
Dungeons & Dragons Online: Stormreach: Approximately 2 years of development.
WAR: The Warhammer Online license was acquired by Mythic on May 18, 2005 and was lost by Climax Online in late 2004. It's being released Sept. 2008. Companies do not normally make development time for a game they don't own yet. And no serious development till a distribution method is guaranteed.
Dark Age of Camelot: Mythic started Dark Age of Camelot development in late 1999 and released in 2001. That's less than half of Darkfall's development time.
I'm not saying Darkfall will be a failure, but I am tired of seeing fans of the game act like they know this industry because the Darkfall boards/team said "well everyone else is wrong". And I am indeed looking forward to seeing what 7 years of development can create.
This is typical Darkfall trolling, no truth and no facts. Give us a list of some of these supposed 'lies', including direct developer quotes... if you can. 99% of claims of 'lies' are just idiots who mis-read or over-read what the developers say.
Sure they have talked about beta a few times in the past, but they have never set a release date for the game until now.
As for conferences I would rather have a MMO developer devote 100% of their resources into making a top quality game instead of blowing money going to conferences to hype their game then delivering crappy game play (*cough* AoC).
The MMO industry needs a wake-up call that it can't make shitty games and expect players to pay then while they add the game play and polish that should have been there in the first place.
I got a chuckle from this reply. Proof you want, there is so much proof on the web it is overwhelming. Just to start this is their 3rd beta announcement and we still have no beta yet. Adventurine has produced so many "it is coming soon" announcements that media just ignores them now.
Sorry any publisher in the business is going to show a working game at the first show they can. Hence it is clearly evident they don't have a playable game yet as Leipzig was just a few weeks ago. How in the world are they going to get a beta out next month?
You people are clearly delusional over this title. I can understand the want for something other than a another Wow clone, but Adventurine has been leading us on for years with nothing except a few screen shots. Now they make one video and you want to anoint them? Thanks, but I need something a bit more solid from them more than the host of missed promises they have given us so far.
In other words.... you can't provide any proof, like I said. You just repeat your Darkfall hate mantra without investigating it. Thanks for proving my point.
Proving what point? That Adventurine speaks with forked tongue? Hardly a hate mantra when I just point out the facts you so conveniently ignore. Most of us here would love to see Adventurine produce something playable, close to what they describe on the website. We just don't have much confidence in them anymore after all the charades they have put us through. It is time for Adventurine to put up or shut up.
So where are these lies you reckon they have told? Please provide actual developer quotes. As I said, 99% of what trolls call "lies" are due to people naively or deliberately mis-interpreting what has been said, not what was actually said. It's a fact that Aventurine have never missed a release date because 2008 is the first *official* release date they have given us.
I don't need to quote anything, just google "darkfall missed dates" and it will give you over 10 pages. I need say no more. Next time use an argument that does not have overwhelming evidence against you.
I would not be surprised if there was a wiki out there for "missed dates" with Darkfall highlighted as a prominent example.
I'm amazed with your proof. Check google now, a new link has been added to "darkfall missed dates" search which directs to your post. Very factual and true indeed - although you can't show any missed release date announcement from Aventurine.
Still, who cares about factuality when you can lie and speculate as you wish and let the rest of the forum decide what to do; to believe you and your speculations or make a little bit of research and find out what the devs really said - which is a hard task for so many of them.
We're quoting the devs for what they've said, and you address google to only redirect us to your comments and other trolls speculations and say "I don't need to quote anything". Well done.
When it comes to multi quotations then a thread has gone up in flames.
I think there is a confusion over missed beta-test dates and missed release dates.
Aventurine has been notorious for missing beta-test dates during this game's seven year development. It is true, however, that they have never missed a release date because they've never said anything concrete in all that time. This is the first solid release date they have ever given so it is correct that they haven't missed it.
But if we can remember MMORPG history and all the other games that have come before, it wouldn't be anything all that unusual if the release date was missed. What matters is how many times it is missed, and now that Aventurine has committed down that path, we all get to see how they do.
I feel it's a bit sad that you seem to equate 'next-gen' with graphics. Sure, you can have 'next-gen graphics' and that's all well and good, but great graphics do not a great game make; AoC is a case in point -- great graphics, crappy game.
Darkfall does not have 'next-gen graphics', though i don't think they are that far from. It is, I believe, still a 'next-gen' MMO, because of the new levels of gameplay, freedom and immersion it offers.
without getting into too much detail:
1) gameplay -- real-time combat. 100% manual aiming and blocking. mounts/mounted combat. ships/naval combat. city building and sieging. player housing. explicit support for 200v200 battles. all weapons/armour/items/ships/props in the game are player craftable. dynamic quests.
2) freedom -- huge zoneless world. no classes. no levels. spec exactly how you like. full-looting. travel anywhere in the world, there are no zones/invisible barriers/restrictions. player actions have direct consequences on alignment. no safe-zones. no restrictions on what you can build, destroy or attack.
3) immersion -- no instances. friendly-fire. collision detection. real-world physics. arrows and spells have knockback. no player radar. bloodspray and visible damage. full scene dynamic shadows. "true" stealth. dynamic mob spawns. enhanced mob AI. real-world weather. day/night cycles based on a real planetary system of 2 orbiting moons. wind that blows the grass and branches of trees.
if all that together in one MMO is not 'next-gen' then i don't know what is.
let's just hope the beta lives up to its feature list.
It's the manual block and aimming in 200v200 battles that makes me really wonder. I don't think it can be done without alot of people whinning about how lag killed them. I'd like to see it happen but I have large doubts about it working well.
Personally I think "skills" are overrated for mmo's. What good are your skills going to do against a guy with 100 ms lower ping?
Also I disagree that clicking a button and waiting for cooldown takes no skill. The skill is in what order and how you use those buttons. Anyone who has evered played a mmo can attest to the fact that there are some people who can't play thier class well and there are some who can. That's skill(or lack of). Skill isn't found in the lack of cooldown timers, 100% manual aim, etc. It's found in any game.
For me I might give darkfall a try. But I'm staying away right now. The art for the outfits looks awful. There's no fun in it for me in an uber game if I look like a 5 year old made an outfit and put it on me.
I do like the evil clown race though. I hope they die alot. Die evil sword clowns, die.
Kinda started skipping posts once I saw the typical responses I'd expect to see in a DF thread.. But great OP.
I'm not sure if next-gen is the best term as a lot of DF's concepts have been done one way or another. Albeit, if they are able to make the 200v200 battles with collision detection runs well performance wise, maybe next-gen will be appropriate. I'd say it's moreso visionary for going against the WoW norm of nearly all MMO's nowadays.
Development time has been rediculously long but in my eyes, that just gives insight into the mindset of the developers. More time, more money sunk into the game, but at least the final product will be solid. It sorta reminds me of (dare I say) Blizzard's approach to games, not setting a release date early so that they will always ship a solid game that isn't rushed (SC2). Criticizing them for this is silly imo.
Of course there will be nay-sayers yelling DF will never succeed and chances are it will fail, the odds are against them... But the sheep can go back to rolling the dice for the X'th time trying to get the next piece of epic gear, repeating the same raid pattern over again, the rest of us will be having a blast in Darkfall's sandbox.
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Self-confessed DF fanboy. Finally a real ****ing MMO.
I guess we agree that AoC's problem was their rush for releasing the game. Aventurine seems very careful not to repeat FunCom's mistakes and release Darkfall early.
People are not learning from this, and keep criticizing Aventurine for lying or giving false hopes to their community. Don't you all see that MMORPG player community is part of the reason why so many games are failing lately? That when ever developers delay their release (and in Darkfall's case, it was just the Beta stage - not even the release..), there emerges a fast reproducing species called "trolls" spreading vaporware speculations in every single forum related to the game.
Aventurine has not delayed its announced date for release and it's still due the end of the year, most likely by Christmas. However, I'd be supportive and wait patiently if they'd decide to move the release date 2-3 months.
Yeah, I sincerely hope it's out before 2009. I'm trying to stay positive but my patience is wearing out.
I actually didn't bother with AoC since I didn't get a great vibe from it. If anything, I planned on joining in later on... Who knows, maybe with the new boss, things will change enough to make it a decent game.
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Self-confessed DF fanboy. Finally a real ****ing MMO.
Aventurine has been notorious for missing beta-test dates during this game's seven year development.
That depends technically speaking they never said Beta Starts April 4 2005, or Beta Starts October 19th 2008; all they said is that there will be a beta but they never ever gave a specific dates. You guys have to realize that this game had at least 2 to 3 years of concept development stage + 5 years of actual development. The game is there, people when there to visit there were interviews done, you can see progression in screenshots and movies.
Don't knock them for actaully giving a shit and taking their time, most MMO companies don't give a rats ass and they don't show the kind of progression in screens and movies; Aventurine has done this since the beginning and they don't spend 90% of their budget on advertisement like some of these other companies do they take that money and pump it all into the game. Aventurine has been more open with the community then any other developer out there, but they certainly wont hold anybody's hand because they know that this has never been attempted ever before on this massive scale so you can't really fault them for not sticking to some imaginary date.
BTW Tasos only said that they would like to release in 2008, but remeber this answer to beta and release can be perceived in several different ways; just because they would LIKE TO does not necessairly mean that they will. There will be delays just like in any other game, but when you're making a game like DF delays are the norm; who knows you might see beta by the end of 2008 which I DOUBT, but even if there is a beta it will last for at least 3 to 4 months if not longer.
My prediction beta 1st quarter 2009, release 3rd quarter 2009.
^^^ great post, i wish more gamers realised that the Blizzard/Aventurine approach to game development (when it's done, damnit), is what this genre needs more than anything. it needs to break away from the mainstream WOW-mould as well, and for this reason if nothing else, people should be hoping Darkfall succeeds.
personally i think beta is right around the corner, the release, too hard to tell until we try the beta.
I mean nothing personal by this, but I've noticed a herd of Darkfall fans on this forum who will not get their facts straight about development time with games. So OP, I'd like to show you these games that took far less time. Proving that 7 years is nowhere near considered common when compared to other MMORPG games developed.
WoW Development time: 4 years. (not counting two expansions also being released in less than 7 years time from original development)
EQ2 Development time: Less than or equal to WoW's dev time. (not counting several free updates, and even more expansions in less time)
Dungeons & Dragons Online: Stormreach: Approximately 2 years of development.
WAR: The Warhammer Online license was acquired by Mythic on May 18, 2005 and was lost by Climax Online in late 2004. It's being released Sept. 2008. Companies do not normally make development time for a game they don't own yet. And no serious development till a distribution method is guaranteed.
Dark Age of Camelot: Mythic started Dark Age of Camelot development in late 1999 and released in 2001. That's less than half of Darkfall's development time.
I'm not saying Darkfall will be a failure, but I am tired of seeing fans of the game act like they know this industry because the Darkfall boards/team said "well everyone else is wrong". And I am indeed looking forward to seeing what 7 years of development can create.
You're absolutely right, it's my mistake and I apologize. I just thought that there were a few other MMORPGs which also took 7 years. I've checked Wikipedia, and saw that the maximum was 5 years.
However, it all comes down to the success of the game after release, and if Aventurine will keep their promises or not.
I'm not sure what you meant by "well everyone else is wrong"; that certainly had not been Aventurine's excuse for their delays if that's what you meant.
I mean nothing personal by this, but I've noticed a herd of Darkfall fans on this forum who will not get their facts straight about development time with games. So OP, I'd like to show you these games that took far less time. Proving that 7 years is nowhere near considered common when compared to other MMORPG games developed.
WoW Development time: 4 years. (not counting two expansions also being released in less than 7 years time from original development)
EQ2 Development time: Less than or equal to WoW's dev time. (not counting several free updates, and even more expansions in less time)
Dungeons & Dragons Online: Stormreach: Approximately 2 years of development.
WAR: The Warhammer Online license was acquired by Mythic on May 18, 2005 and was lost by Climax Online in late 2004. It's being released Sept. 2008. Companies do not normally make development time for a game they don't own yet. And no serious development till a distribution method is guaranteed.
Dark Age of Camelot: Mythic started Dark Age of Camelot development in late 1999 and released in 2001. That's less than half of Darkfall's development time.
I'm not saying Darkfall will be a failure, but I am tired of seeing fans of the game act like they know this industry because the Darkfall boards/team said "well everyone else is wrong". And I am indeed looking forward to seeing what 7 years of development can create.
You're absolutely right, it's my mistake and I apologize. I just thought that there were a few other MMORPGs which also took 7 years. I've checked Wikipedia, and saw that the maximum was 5 years.
However, it all comes down to the success of the game after release, and if Aventurine will keep their promises or not.
I'm not sure what you meant by "well everyone else is wrong"; that certainly had not been Aventurine's excuse for their delays if that's what you meant.
I think LoTRO took a long time too, depending on what you count.
I somehow doubt that DF has been in 7 years of 100 percent full on development.
____________________________________________
im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
I play a game where I fear losing my favorite item......its called Halo 3.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day.
And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
Support the OP.
Enough of these EQ/wow clones, bring on the modernised UO. The very first time I get to punch a d...head in the face, even tho he's the same race as me will be a very, very sweet day. I'm not overly fussed if it doesn't pull the same numbers as WOW, Eve Online already shows us that there exists enough players interested in a quality sandbox game to support multiple 10k+ servers.