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Star Wars Galaxies: The First Rule of Star Wars Galaxies PvP

StraddenStradden Managing EditorHalifax, NSPosts: 6,696Member

MMORPG.com Star Wars Galaxies Correspondent Jef Reahard writes this article discussiong the lack of attention that the PvP system in SOE's Star Wars Galaxies has received and why PvP should have been an integral part of the game.

The first rule of Star Wars Galaxies PVP is you don't talk about Star Wars Galaxies PVP. The second rule of Star Wars Galaxies PVP is that you don't talk about Star Wars Galaxies PVP. Okay, so maybe that's a stretch, but given the player-versus-player system's status as one of the most often-neglected game systems in the history of the five year old title, it’s not a stretch to imagine Sony's developers doing their best Ed Norton impersonations while turning a blind eye to the cries of the naysayers on the official forums. While ignoring PVPers isn't always a bad thing, (continual cries for 'balance' have ruined more MMOs than they have helped), the cold war between developer and player is, in this case, emblematic of the general disconnect that is the rule rather than the exception when it comes to Sony's troubled Star Wars game.

Read the article here.

Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com

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Comments

  • jadan2000jadan2000 roosevelt, NYPosts: 511Member

    i agree 100%. To me this goes all back to the one thing that none of the star wars galaxy version ever trully had... Core Star Wars Components. There should be war all over teh place. Furious pvp for planetary control on land and in space.

    image

  • darkmaster03darkmaster03 New York, NYPosts: 4Member

    I don't understand why everyone is so afraid of PVP all of a sudden. I mean, when you spot a member of the opposing faction, you should be able to attack him/her, whats wrong with that?

    Though a big factor might be the negative connotation of being a "hard-core" pvp player. Noone wants to be labeled "hard-core" in anything video game related b/c in the US it's seen as negative.

    Ever played Starcraft? I don't thinks so. This is the way Starcraft was meant to be played. Starcraft

  • go4brokego4broke Newark, NJPosts: 180Member

    I can't imagine why you brought this up, the rabid fans of star wars are about to go beserk in this thread.  Just glad I can get my 2cents in before that happens.

     

    I think we can all agree that Star Wars as it currently stands is but a shadow of those who originally played it.  The numbers are nowhere near where they should be for the number of people this game drew originally.  The game for whatever reason has been mismanaged to the point where they alienate just about everyone. 

     

    What you have left(the majority of them) is a group of people who just don't care about a good game, they only want to have Star Wars shinies and are willing to put up with just about anything so long as it says Star Wars and has lightsabers.

     

    My point in saying all this is that, your conclusion about Sony catering to the vast crowd of casual players (in SWG I'd call them people who like to get beat up by the devs and still pay for it)  is just flat out wrong.  What you have left are the people who are willing to do anything no matter how craptastic  as long as they have a sense of community and the game keeps open.  Sony has essentially distilled out anyone who wants to play a game over the years.

     

    So to claim that the pvp system and how its ignored is a bad thing just points to how Sony has no understanding of their IP and also to how the poeple left are just resigned to the fact that its a bad game and they will play it regardless.  

    It's a Star Wars game and for that alone no matter how bad it is, you'll always have a rabid group of fans.

     

    This isn't about open PVP or closed PVP or wearing items or faction farming as that happens in every game.  This is about people who just don't see the flaws, or dont' care about them.  Although I have to laugh when you say the roleplayers who don't want to pvp, ..*blink* the most avid roleplayers who I dealt with in SWG before the mass exodus of players were all into PVP.  They wanted to roleplay AND PVP and SWG was one of the first games that really allowed them to do both in a meaningful manner.

    Just can't believe you brought this up, shouldn't there be a ban on editorials about SWG at this point?  This article is just going to induce a flamewar.

    There are plenty of ofther games with better pvp and I'm sure everyone knows some of them. 

  • CujoSWAoACujoSWAoA Nooo, AKPosts: 1,781Member

    Star Wars Gaaxies, should've been a lot of things.

    It failed at all of them.

  • DestroyeronDestroyeron Buckhannon, WVPosts: 79Member

    People still play SWG? Wouldn't runescape be a good upgrade?

  • MrbloodworthMrbloodworth Newport News, VAPosts: 5,615Member

    The NGE combat system is so borked up, the mention of PvP in this game is lolz.

    ----------
    "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me

    "No, your wrong.." - Random user #123

    "Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.

    How are you?" -Me

  • mmcrimsonmmcrimson melbouren, FLPosts: 19Member

    Good article.  And true in most parts.

    Also are some of the posts very true.  The game as it stands is not a bad game, however how it is managed is abismal.   Here we are at the 5 year point and we are almost back to where we were in year one with 1/3 the classes, 1/100 of the versatility .. and fewer bugs...

    Positives-  Space combat and ships creation (construction) system is very good.  Im usre their are a few bugs here and their but it isnt all bad...  But wait you cant shoot someone of opposing factions.. HMMM

    Housing- from day one this has been one of  the best systems in the market.  But lets look at the stupid of the managment.  14 day accounts for all, and no  decay.   This stupidity gave us 4.5 million junk houses and maybee 4.5 new subscribers... 

    Craftng- Lets see, one the most complex systems in all games, and yet they are doing everything they can over 5 years to make everyone be able to craft 100% items.  NOT TO MENTION THEY DESTROYED ONE CLASS and it took them 3.5 years to fix it.  (weapon smiths)  Very nice system now the weapons,  Anyone remember hunting for kemo scales for armor to add 20HP..        Now you hunt for crap for days to get +140hp...        It only took them 4 years to bring the system back to what it was in the first place...   ARMOR recolor is the only +...   But ill bet you 100 to 1 odds, if you search the forums you will find it requested 3 years ago.

    The problem with this game is not the PVP, it is the stupidity of SOE and the managers of the SWG game it self from day 2.     They have consistantly taken one step forward and 2 steps back and now are finally 50% of where they were from day 1.   

    I would suggest they make it Free to play and put 2 minutes of adds to get into the game to pay for servers, and leave it alone.. Bout all it is good for now. 

  • SilversaberSilversaber West Hills, CAPosts: 14Member

    I couldnt disagree with the article more.

    If they would have made SWG PvP based from the beginning, the subscription numbers would have NEVER have gotten as high as it did pre-NGE, and would be even worse than it is now post-NGE.

    The only thing I agree within the article is the statement"

    "While the exact percentages are unclear, the PVP play style is a minority preference across the broad spectrum of the various MMORPG player communities, and, while the kill 'em all crowd is typically extremely vocal, they are more than likely not representative of player bases as a whole."

    This statement spot on, and couldnt agree more.

  • TazdaxTazdax Twin Cities, MNPosts: 16Member

    I know, maybe there should be a Combat Upgrade, oh wait did that.... 

    All kidding aside, having separate PvP servers vs roleplay servers make the most sense and they could easily do this with some of the servers that are consistently population light like Kett or Tarq.  Offer to move characters off there to roleplay servers  for free if they don't want to participate in PvP and let the PvPers flock to the PvP servers and create new toons.  For all the long time vets that have had an active account for more than 12 months, give them a twinkie like the "Elder" buff or something else that will recognize them so they won't whine too much. 

    They definitely need to do something like this or its just a matter of time before SWG shuts down and there wont be anything to whine about.

     

  • sativasativa orlando, FLPosts: 1Member

    Yep Yep SwG in the news crap i thought hoth was out was going to reactivate my acc lol mabye next month and pvp is fun you just have to catch it in the right place i have always been in big battles lag is the only issue and as far as wineing vets lol im the worst imp wook jedi it took 4 years for them to let me wear gloves with my elder(every other species could trandos,ithos etc)Bloodfin is a good pvp server Gorath kinda died out im looking for a good imp guild with alot of instance running etc....PvP is what you make of it I have always said make a 4 servers pvp,rollplay,as is now server) and a pre patch 9 server!1!!

  • brenthbrenth rock island, WAPosts: 288Member

    there are many problems with SWG,, so many that I think they need to shut down the game for 6 months and do a serious  overhaul and rethink  many aspects of the game.

    I activly tell other players to avoid SWG as one of the worse titles running.

    it is an example of the disconect between game makers and players particularly SONY

    there are many people that either dont like PVP or that do not like  being forced into combat with enemy far above their PVP skill level only to be  meat for the PVP grinder  players that prefer to be doctors or crafters  or engineers.  MMOs have a nasty habit of making a very sharp and shallow type of PVP  more akin to a street brawl  where fights are over in seconds  alive or dead period.  this is more like an arcade  game that a fun involved war.

    I use to like playing a doctor  but I was allways farmed  in the anchorhead hospital by empire that could RESPAWN right accross the fracking street!!!  and i wasnt really a doctor back then more of a steroid or crack dealer so people could wear the heavy armor,  but even this was  trashed.

    when I went back to the game later the NGE had happened and everything was just WRONG!  even the space expansion was a sham,, nothing more than a fighting arena,, too bad too those ships could have been awesome  with a big universe (privateer trader) cool looking multiplayer ships.

    in SWG current configuration it is not even on my "go back to list"  and as I said  the reputation of SWG  is activly negative  even if a new player is on the fence  he quickly is warned away from this diaster of a product.

    make a world, not a game, we dont want another game.

  • brenthbrenth rock island, WAPosts: 288Member

    I don't understand why everyone is so afraid of PVP all of a sudden. I mean, when you spot a member of the opposing faction, you should be able to attack him/her, whats wrong with that?]]]]

    well simply put most people hate to play this way,, busting heads for no good justifiable reason.

    think of most players as hobbiests  they want to tinker with what ever they do in the game wether its building or missoning  or exploring  without having some other player  disrupt that .

    As a "carebear" as a rule I dont PVP  for several reasons  first is  with only casual player combat skills  I know that in current game design  I will die so fast  its a waste of time to bother showing up when faced with near pure PVP template players  kind of like a navy seal vs a school teacher.

    second  games must justify their fights and make it intrinsicly important for me enguage in PVP  and most games just dont do this.  I need a really good reason to want to go fight.

    lastly  many MMO are an ALL OR NOTHING  PVP  either you PVP 100% or you dont PVP at all  there is no middle ground  EVE has this problem   your either a lowsec PVPer or your a highsec carebear  and there is this HUGE rift between them which is destroying EVE and keeping eve as a small little PVP only nitch game why take a ship 30 minutes to go accross the galaxy only to DIE 6 seconds after ariving at the fight?  sorry!  ive got better things to do than that!

     

    make a world, not a game, we dont want another game.

  • jedijefjedijef Star Wars Galaxies Correspondent Atlanta, GAPosts: 27Member
    Originally posted by brenth


    well simply put most people hate to play this way,, busting heads for no good justifiable reason.


     

     

    That's very true.

    I was a hardcore roleplayer long before I started engaging in PVP, and still prefer the former over the latter, but PVP (if done right) only adds to the immersion factor of a license like SW. 

    The problem is the 'red=dead' crowd, which, even though I PVP with regularity, I can't stand.  The option for violence is a good one to have, from a storytelling perspective, but the problem is that the majority of folks are neanderthals that just like to kill whatever is in front of them. 

    If there were some way to weed those folks out, or at least design a system with meaningful consequences for being a jerk and/or lacking imagination, then I think you'd see more roleplayers (and players in general) opt in to PVP.  The trick is designing that system, and the object of my article was to point out that Sony is nowhere close, not now, and not in the pre-CU 'glory days' that everyone remembers through rose-colored glasses.

  • DistilerDistiler BarcelonaPosts: 416Member

    "Forcing folks into the GCW at large would no doubt result in the final nail being hammered home into Star Wars Galaxies' coffin, as most of the players still actively subscribing are collectors, roleplayers, and virtual world/sandbox enthusiasts who can't get their fix from any other MMO on the market, but who also wouldn't be caught dead willingly exposing themselves to PvP gameplay."

     

    Who let you publish that? you are an ignorant about mmo if you can write those kind of collective myths.

     

    The article theme has potential because pvp in SWG is very limited and not immersive, but anger shows behind every sentence. Sorry, to me is fail article.

  • SioBabbleSioBabble Eugene, ORPosts: 2,803Member

    Catering to the PvP crowd (particularly the wankers who are the duelists) is what killed SWG in the first place, as the developers continually mucked around to achieve "balance" in one on one PvP which was impossible given the nature of the professions, which were designed around a combined arms approach to combat.

    The windmill that is "balance" in PvP led directly to the dumbing down of the game, first with the CU and then with the NGE as the developers kept simplifying the game in order to have a chance to "balance" the game.  The whole POINT of the original system was that no one could survive on their own in PvP, they had to have help.

    The problem with duelists is that unless they always win, the game is "unbalanced" in their eyes.

    CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.

    Once a denizen of Ahazi

  • jedijefjedijef Star Wars Galaxies Correspondent Atlanta, GAPosts: 27Member
    Originally posted by SioBabble


    Catering to the PvP crowd (particularly the wankers who are the duelists) is what killed SWG in the first place, as the developers continually mucked around to achieve "balance" in one on one PvP which was impossible given the nature of the professions, which were designed around a combined arms approach to combat.
    The windmill that is "balance" in PvP led directly to the dumbing down of the game, first with the CU and then with the NGE as the developers kept simplifying the game in order to have a chance to "balance" the game.  The whole POINT of the original system was that no one could survive on their own in PvP, they had to have help.
    The problem with duelists is that unless they always win, the game is "unbalanced" in their eyes.

     

    I disagree. Yes, there was some tweaking of professions in order to 'balance' PVP, the nerfing of Combat Medics being an early example, but I think its a bit of stretch to say that's what killed SWG (assuming that it is in fact dead).

    Sony/LucasArts executives looking longingly at WoW subscription numbers is what 'killed' SWG, if by killed you mean 'led to the NGE.'  That had very little to do with the PVP system, or lack thereof.

  • SuvrocSuvroc Toronto, ONPosts: 2,383Member

    I gotta say I found this article to be refreshingly honest albeit somewhat brutal in it's delivery - but I can't say it's was uncalled for  ; )

    However, had this been posted by someone on the official forums it would have been followed by a chorus of people chanting CMN!

  • RyukeRyuke BournemouthPosts: 58Member

    Quoting from the closing sentence of this article:

     

    "If ever there were a licensed MMO that demanded an innovative player-versus-player system, Sony's Star Wars sandbox would be it."

     

    Sandbox? All of the sand was removed from the box in November 2005 thank you very much.

    image

  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,180Member Uncommon

    First off, anyone mentioning pvp servers is off their rocker.  The are too many empty servers as it is, where are you going to get the players?

    The writer of the article wants SOE to be innovative and that is exactly what SOE does not want to do.  This game is strictly in maintenance mode.

    Best solution for SOE is not to bother with it.   It is not a priority for most of the remaining players.

    Oh and yes, how in the world can the OP classify this game as a sandbox, it has not been for years, more like a glorified FPS now.

  • SuvrocSuvroc Toronto, ONPosts: 2,383Member
    Originally posted by Ryuke


    Quoting from the closing sentence of this article:
     
    "If ever there were a licensed MMO that demanded an innovative player-versus-player system, Sony's Star Wars sandbox would be it."
     
    Sandbox? All of the sand was removed from the box in November 2005 thank you very much.



     

    Common now there has to be some sand left.

    What else could people be burying their heads into to avoid the problems this game has?  :)

  • Karsk_JagareKarsk_Jagare Kamloops, BCPosts: 5Member

    Its really a shame how all of the changes occurredon SWG.  One of the best PVP experiences I have ever had was during the early days of the game when I got involved in the defense of a rebel base.  I could not tell the difference between players and NPCs on either side and it felt just like a vintage Star Wars fire fight.

    There were so many cool things about this game but this topic  I am sure has been beaten to death.

    Am I incorrect in saying that Mythic is one of the few companies that supports alternate versions of its game, DAOC, in a kind of experimental, what do people really want kind of approach.  They have been able to re-introduce old versions along side their updated versions.  More recently, it seems to me that EQ has been doing the same thing.

    I really think that the original ruleset of SWG is worth maintaining.  There were problems with that ruleset but I think the approach that they used to solve the problems threw the baby out with the bathwater. 

    Karsk

     

     

     

     

     

  • EvelknievelEvelknievel Ehrenfeld, PAPosts: 2,977Member

    Hmmm..

    I got an idea..

    Tell everyone to pack up their belongings and throw them in the bank.

    Shut down all the servers for a month for re-vamp and offer a free month to current subscribers.

    Star FRESH new servers with same names and combine others like what EQ did.

    Give people free server transfers to populated servers.

    Roll back to Publish 9 (bring back the original crafting system), but leave JTL alone for now.

    Anyways the big problem is JEDI class and balancing issues agaist other classes. Lets back to the drawing board on this.

    I can keep going on... but this is a start..

  • MidnitteMidnitte Howell, NJPosts: 510Member


    Originally posted by Ryman86
    This correspondent sucks.
    I found the article to be a good read, PvP in this game is worse than WoW and definitely needs some attention.

    I have one of the same memories of PvP; attacking some imperial players near the bazzar, I was quickly owned in the face. fun times... :)

    image

  • Aked_elBosseAked_elBosse camden, SCPosts: 22Member

    Well, not being a PvPer might hurt my crediblity in answering this but, personally I could care less about PvP. Its always seemed to me to be the realm of trolls and losers trying to be BMOC.

    What I do agree with in this articile is the lack of PvE confrontation within the Star Wars framework. In game all Reb/Imp NPC's should be automatically in combat mode with players of the other faction. Basically meaning there is no "on Leave; status anymore. Thats fix number one.

    Number two: Dump the current point system, as the article mentioned its borked and rather stupid as it stands. Lets go back to a more realistic setup but, keeping the same incentives in place now. And remove that 80% of level ratio to something more appropriate say 60%.

    Number Three: Major one here. Remove Jedi! Pre Cu they were rare players walking around and their low numbers could be (somehow) explained in Star Wars lore if we try really hard.

    Number Four: Reserve gears, instead of increasing damage, protection and DPS amounts lets start a rollback and bring the numbers down ALOT. Likewise, this will mean changes in health/action as well.

    Number Five: Finally, do something dramatic with abandoned housing, cities etc. This is simple now since houses etc can be simply packed and placed in inventory of the account. (ok datapad). If the owner of the account returns (unlikely now) all he loses is his location of his house(s).

    Number Six: This is the hardest one to say since I still play and actually like what has been happening with it. But, sad fact is SWG is dead. Many servers are ghost towns. While there has been a good influx of new players recently it is not going to last long and many are already quietly leaving as new games emerge more to their liking. So lets put SWG to rest and move on. SOE saves thousands, we save hundreds and the worse managed game in MMO history actually becomes history.

  • RhoklawRhoklaw Ft. Bliss, TXPosts: 3,475Member Uncommon

    This editorial post isn't bad or wrong, it's just pointless. As Stradden stated, SOE will never listen to the player base, regardless if it's a rabid PvP fan or not. Theres more wrong with SWG than just PvP but PvP is a very important issue.

    Biggest problem with the game and specifically PvP from the beginning was implementing Jedi as a playable class. This was the dumbest decision SOE ever made in the designing of SWG. Perhaps SWG was never meant to be because there isn't a single gaming company that could have done it justice. I don't blame SOE or LA anymore for the games dismal outlook, cause no company could have made this IP work.

    Jedi in SWG are like are like Hero classes in WoW. Characters which should in all honesty be overpowered compared to all other classes. This would be the most correct path in constructing a Jedi class, but if you do this, no one will bother playing any of the now gimp classes in comparison to PvP.

    SWG was destined to fail people and it isn't SOE or LA's fault and it certainly isn't the fanbase's either. Plenty of PvP games survive the initial storm such as UO, AC, Shadowbane ( which died because of bugs and GM abuse not PvP ), Eve Online and DAoC.

    Why can other games survive with PvP rulesets yet SWG became an eyesore? As I've stated for a very long time now. Jedi's should never have been implented as a playable class. So with that being said, SWG is at a point now where it can do nothing but be the laughing stock of the PvP MMO industry.

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