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Punkbuster is little more than invasive malware.
It indiscriminantly scans your memory and reports data back to punkbuster servers. It's worse than the warden.
It's also very easy to work around. And it's also very easy to exploit and make other people trip the system (false positive). All you have to do is post a string that would normally be found in a known cheating program, be it on a website or IRC or chat and it will think you are trying to cheat. Even balance's solution? Don't run other programs at the same time as a Punkbuster enabled game.
Originally posted by Ozmodan 18 classes, really how many games start with 18 classes? You are extremely lucky you are getting that many. I am just amazed at all the thoughtless whiners on this thread. If you can't find a class you like in one of those 18 you have issues, namely you should not be playing a MMO.
20 classes actually
I am sad. Very sad.
For those saying that the 18 or so classes is adequate for any MMO standard.. This is WAR. It is not some cookie cutter MMO. The IP is very very rich to draw from. I thought they were going to be faithful to the IP? We all can understand the tweaks to the IP like Zealots and Disciples of Khaine for game balance in MMOs. They can't make the tanks and dps melee classes fun?
Did they ask Games Workshop how they made these units fun for their games?
Well i suspect they will be spending precious work hours explaining to us of their decision and how these changes will be retooled and rebalanced.
Lets make the game GREAT by having an Ironbreaker, Witchunter, Bright wizard and Archmage against a Witch Elf, Black Orc, Squig herder and Zealot. Less classes= better if they are really great.
Finally - Best site for Chuck Norrishttp://www.chucknorrisfacts.com/
Originally posted by KnightTrue "Takes more than 200 people to siege the city its is not a guild event. So nice try at the trolling lol. " -Banthis the nonfactor Yeah thats what they said about WoW till hardcore pvp guilds locked down Ogrimmar and Ironforge, gtfo and diaf, you know nothing about MMORPGs. I could take 50 of my guys and lock one of these lame cities down with 400 newbies trying to get back in., Warhammer isn't going to have the same sever pop as WoW, so it'll be that much easier. The level cap of 40 will be hit within 2 days by exploit usage, always happens. WAR devs were supposedly working on this game a long time, producing all these retarded podcasts and videos when they should have been working on content for the game. It was bad enough they had to redo the graphics because they got so out of date, but removing 4 cities and 4 classes?! I mean how hard is it to make a mirror class with some cool looking tactics that differentiate it from its counterpart?! Good luck trying to add 4 classes and balance them later on down the line, talk about a challenge. This is an obviously stupid move to anyone who has worked in the game development industry. No thanks Mythic, take this BS Spin and write a blog, if they really believe people think taking out this much content is going to make the game better, they don't deserve my money nor anyone looking for a solid pvp MMORPG. This game isn't ready for a sept launch. Get ready for your first $30 expansion pack with maybe 2 classes, then another $30 expansion with 2 more classes after that. Funcom promised alot and also didn't deliver with AOC, hence their subscriber base being down to like 70k now out of the estimated 700k pre-orders all because they didn't have the content ready they said they would. Hear that sound?... Its the sound of thousands of WOTLK being pre-ordered because people know WAR isn't shaping up to be what they thought.
Funny I played WoW for 2 years and never saw this happen..infact guards usually wiped out most people before they could do much damage. I think You might want to Stop Trolling at this point. WoW was never even designed as a PvP game and it certaintly wasnt' designed for City Sieges its completely possible a large guild COULD lock a city down if there was any reason to other than annoying. WAR on the other hand IS design specifically for City Sieging 200 people can't hold down an Entire Teir, a Keep, and storm the Gates at the same time.
I too was looking forward to some good news when I got up this morning, but alas it is not to be. Still, it's not all bad as I wasn't really looking to play any of the classes they cut, probably because there wasn't / isn't much info on them and a lot of the other class sound really cool / interesting / fun to play.
I was really looking forward to exploring all the capital cities though, so I'm bit disappointed about that. At least on the plus side Altdorf and Inevitable will be even better than they otherwise would have been.
I guess my main concern is what the removal of those four classes will do to the overall distribution of players among the archetypes. Are we going to see less tanks and melee DPS overall, or will the up till now Choppa, Blackguard, Hammerer, and KotBS players simply choose to play the other Tank / Melee DPS class of that faction? I guess only time (and maybe some polls) will tell.
Also, KnightTrue, you owe me $478; 1 braincell = $1. Seriously, do you even know ANYTHING about WAR, or game development? Wait, don't answer that, I already know the answer is a resounding NO.
OMG - *re-reads article*
OMG guys, WTF!!! Do I see actual honesty and realistic goals being used in relation to an upcoming launch?!!?! I can't believe this. A company just came out and told me the truth. I'm actually still in shock from reading it. I mean the very thought of being told the truth has me just...just...stunned.
This actually makes me want to buy the game more. Is that odd? I mean here we have a company that has pushed and pushed back the launch date for the sake of what I thought to be quality. And then just when I think the extensions are superficial and not truly needed (i.e. to polish off insignificant CE extras), they drop this bombshell of an interview and actually admit that some major concepts of the game simply aren't finished. KUDOS to you Mythic...KUDOS indeed!
To those of you who are unhappy with the announcement I simply pose the question - what would you do? You have a product with potential. You know how important launch is. Do you do like every other game we b*tch and moan about, and go ahead with the launch revealing piss poor, half @ssed, unfinished main line concepts OR do you admit that reality beat fantasy with a stick; as it relates to game production, and it won't be ready?
I see the problem with doing this from reading some of the responses. Mythic really is damned if the do or damned if they don't. If they go ahead with the release of poorly polished cities and "not great" classes then the masses will complain. If they withhold the classes and cities in an attempt to polish them, then the masses complain about that. Just seems like a giant Mexican stand-off and Mythic is the only gun-slinger without a gun.
The ONLY question I'd have, would be if there is a time line AFTER launch for these cut back features/classes/cities to be implemented. If they slap that "indefinite" amount of time tag on the previously mentioned components THEN I could see myself getting angry, but for now I'm quite satisfied with the move. Again, KUDOS MYTHIC!
I am just glad a company had some honesty and told us what was going right and what was going wrong, and they had the balls to make a tough decision they KNEW would get flamed. Regardless I am going to buy it, Mythic is awesome and as an avid Warhammer Fantasy/40K enthusiast all I have to say is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!
Kudos to Mark and Mythic for the honesty. I am sad to hear about every thing that has been cut though. I'm worried about what effect the lack of cities will have on the non-Empire/Chaos areas. I know that the cites will be put in eventually so I'm not too worried though. As for the classes I'm torn about what this really means. On one hand to does signal that Mythic is commited to ensuring the best possible quiality for every aspect of the game. Om the other hand removing four classes froma a game after they have been annouced can't be good from a PR standpoint. The alreadt determined WAR haters will be ceamented in their opinions and a few people on the edge might be driven off. The only thing Mythic can know is assure that the game is a hit. A strong launch with good reviews will help bring people back into the fold.
On the brighter side of things the fact that Mythic is making this cuts provide fairly strong evidence that they have locked in on the September release.
Games I've Played: WoW, FFXI, SWG, CoH, EVE OnlineGames I'm Waiting for: WAR, Stargate Worlds
well mythic you lost me. My favorite class is gone. I'm glad i didnt waste 80$ on a pre order.
Wow... look at all the babies complaining. If the game launched with incomplete classes/cities, these same babies would be complaining about balancing classes and unfished content and saying they should have waited longer instead of launching on time. I applaud the honesty of the developer and they are very focused on quality control. I think this is the right mentality to develop a mmo and they will make the game and classes scalable so they can keep on adding finished content and classes as its ready for public play. As for people complaining about punkbuster, I guess you'll have to stop downloading porn while playing your games... oh well.
I wasnt sure if I was actually going to play this game but now I think I will give it a shot. Finally, some honesty and decisions being made. They aren't promising the moon... they are promising something realistic. Now to decide which class to play.
Originally posted by Hathi I am sad. Very sad.For those saying that the 18 or so classes is adequate for any MMO standard.. This is WAR. It is not some cookie cutter MMO. The IP is very very rich to draw from. I thought they were going to be faithful to the IP? We all can understand the tweaks to the IP like Zealots and Disciples of Khaine for game balance in MMOs. They can't make the tanks and dps melee classes fun?Did they ask Games Workshop how they made these units fun for their games?Well i suspect they will be spending precious work hours explaining to us of their decision and how these changes will be retooled and rebalanced. Lets make the game GREAT by having an Ironbreaker, Witchunter, Bright wizard and Archmage against a Witch Elf, Black Orc, Squig herder and Zealot. Less classes= better if they are really great.
I think one of the possible problems is that some of the postponed classes are using new mechanics that may have posed a tough design challenge. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that a combination of the new mechanics paired with a difficulty to balance the class with those mechanics in place, was the reason for the lost ground as far as class development. (Atleast for two of the classes)
For example the Blackguard's new Hate mechanic.
Originally posted by SagaBoy OMG - *re-reads article*OMG guys, WTF!!! Do I see actual honesty and realistic goals being used in relation to an upcoming launch?!!?! I can't believe this. A company just came out and told me the truth. I'm actually still in shock from reading it. I mean the very thought of being told the truth has me just...just...stunned.This actually makes me want to buy the game more. Is that odd? I mean here we have a company that has pushed and pushed back the launch date for the sake of what I thought to be quality. And then just when I think the extensions are superficial and not truly needed (i.e. to polish off insignificant CE extras), they drop this bombshell of an interview and actually admit that some major concepts of the game simply aren't finished. KUDOS to you Mythic...KUDOS indeed!To those of you who are unhappy with the announcement I simply pose the question - what would you do? You have a product with potential. You know how important launch is. Do you do like every other game we b*tch and moan about, and go ahead with the launch revealing piss poor, half @ssed, unfinished main line concepts OR do you admit that reality beat fantasy with a stick; as it relates to game production, and it won't be ready?I see the problem with doing this from reading some of the responses. Mythic really is damned if the do or damned if they don't. If they go ahead with the release of poorly polished cities and "not great" classes then the masses will complain. If they withhold the classes and cities in an attempt to polish them, then the masses complain about that. Just seems like a giant Mexican stand-off and Mythic is the only gun-slinger without a gun.The ONLY question I'd have, would be if there is a time line AFTER launch for these cut back features/classes/cities to be implemented. If they slap that "indefinite" amount of time tag on the previously mentioned components THEN I could see myself getting angry, but for now I'm quite satisfied with the move. Again, KUDOS MYTHIC!
This is why I love Mythic as a company. just look at the difference between them and Funcom, it's a gaping chasm. If Funcom had been making Warhammer and made these same decisions they would have been telling the community and the beta testers not to worry, the other stuff is being internaly tested, is fine and will be in at launch. Then lo and behold come launch it would all be missing, which is exactly what they have done with Aoc. My hat is off to Mythic for their honesty and integrity, good job guys, I always thought that War would be a great game and now I'm even more sure of it.
130 something replies already and I am still going to add my two sense to this, even though no one will probably read it.
I am a big Mythic fan, which is why I was going to try out Warhammer. I never played Warhammer before and never really got into it.
I am very dissatisfied that they are taking the captical cities away, except two. They seem to be very insensitive to the fact that some of us get into our characters, RP or not and prefer to stick with our own races cities. A lot of us could care less what in game benefits we get if they are directly lore related and make sense for us to get.
Taking away classes is displeasing as well. Again, you are taking things away that you said would make it at launch.
After Vanguard, AoC, and etc. you never want to release something you said would make it out on release. So it is good that they are letting us know these things won't make it. It is also good they are doing what they have to in order to get things right.
With release right around the corner, how do they really expect to get things "fabulous" in just 3 short months when they were having so much problems with the game, they needed to cut 4 cities and 4 classes?
No matter if this is a good decision or not, it will leave a bad taste in peoples mouths. It just shows a general disrespect for people who get into the lore of the game and require things to be the way they should be. It is the burden of taking on an IP. You need to get these things right, because this game will also trigger the buying of Warhammer books and other games. If people see, and they will, that WAR doesn't stack up the way the rest of the IP material is, this game will get a lot of flack.
I think Mythic should delay this game until they can put all 6 cities in the game and the 4 classes they are taking out. I'm the consumer, so I don't care about their money problems and what not. Hire the talent you need and get it done. You sold out to EA for god sake, you should have the money now to make this game work the way you intended by release. Hell, DAoC was a fantastic game and had many capital cities, races, and classes. Granted the graphics aren't as good as WAR's will be and the combat won't be as fluid, and WAR will have more featueres; but the point is that Mythic has created a complete game before and should do it again.
This sounds like a cop out to me and I honestly though I was going to see a "just joking" at the end or something.
I'm not sure I will be buying this game at release now. You know I'm not the only one thinking about not buying at release. Was it worth the guaranteed loss of release buyers? I guess time will tell.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WARPreferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
like a ton of people said in the aoc forums, how many games are released with flaws, bugs, glitched, and missing content? all of them. The fanbois/trolls precious WAR is no different. Now 6 cities to 2, and dropping 4 classes *im guessing it wasnt as many as EQ2 to begin with* can't be a good thing, infact, I think it's fair to say that is a straight bad thing. However, games will be games, developers will make promises and break them, and players will still buy, play, complain, and quit games like clockwork.
If I were a WAR fan, I'd just hope they make the rest of the game incredibly amazing.
"Sometimes, things that may or may not be true are the things a man needs to believe in the most. People are basically good. Honor, courage, virtue mean everything. Power and money, money and power mean nothing. Good always triumphs over evil. Love, True Love Never Dies."Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Originally posted by ProfRed No matter how you spin it this is bad news. Some of us, including me, may think that Mythic is handling it well and making the right choice of releasing less polished content instead of too much unpolished content if they HAVE to release it soon and absolutely cannot push back the launch.However, they are releasing a clearly unfinished game instead of pushing it back which will hurt them, and is dissapointing. They are cutting content which is never a good thing.There is no way to put a positive spin on this. It is bad news all around, and it makes me sad, but it is still better news than: "Most of our cities are unpolished and underdeveloped and 1/4th of our classes suck, but we are going to release like this anyway."No matter how you spin it a MASSIVE amount of content just got cut, and we aren't going to see it anytime soon as launches take from 3-12 months to iron out bugs and start really bringing on content.
I completely agree. Depending on who you are; better news would have been to delay the game for another year to get things right and all in by launch. Not everyone is in NEED to play a game. Some of us are happy in the games we are in, while others are quite happy not playing any game, but would have tried this game because of all the stuff it will have in it. Well, Mythic just took at 2/3 of the cities, which is a big deal to many people, and 4 classes, which people should know by now is a huge deal, since people become attached to classes.
Yeah, I'd rather have them push the release back. It would have been better news than this.
I personally think its good news in this fashion: What usually drags a game down those first few months is having porely designed and polished content. There are usually big holes in levels in the game and things just get boring because so much effort was put into the first 10 or 20 levels that the final 10 or 15 levels get little to no love.
Vanguard was probably the best example of a potentially great game that tried to do too much for release and as a result everything sucked and was ruined. The game has never recovered and at this point I highly doubt ever will.
I see this more as getting rid of the dead weight dragging the game down and focusing on the absolute essentials to get a good base game finished. If they actually finish this content then it should only take them a month or two at most to work out all the major release bugs and challenges and get back to adding in all the missing content such as the other capitol cities.
I am personally ready for a game to do it right for once and am hoping and praying that perhaps this one will be the one for me. The last game I got any real true long term enjoyment from playing was EQ and I quit that one back in 2005 I think.
As far as people not buying the game solely because of this announcement...more people would have simply quit the game in the first month if they had proceeded along the path of just putting out six crappy cities instead of 2 really good cities than they might lose from people not buying the game because there are only 2 cities. That first impression of a game does more to make or break a game than lots of crappy content just because it was initially promised.
So I guess it comes down to just this...
No company makes a complete game or atleast implements everything they promised before launch at release.
Therefore, Mythic is neither better nor worse than any other company in this aspect.
However, Mythic atleast came to us and were upfront about what was going on, telling us exactly what they were doing and how the game was coming along.
So, if I had to choose between a company that breaks promises but tells me why before I buy the game, or a company which breaks promises and doesn't tell me squat.
Guess I'll support the honest company, cause atleast I won't have to deal with any suprises in the future.
You can bitch all you want about cities being delayed and classes getting cut, I can live without my Hammerer, cause theres a crapload of other classes to play, which is more than I can say for WoW with its identical twins on both sides.
Originally posted by fishytoothy No orcs in a warhammer game. What the hell are they thinking? I don't even care about the classes themselves being gone so much as what thier removal means in terms of the IP. The cities though, that sucks--I don't even understand how they can cut 4 cities out when the whole point of the game is fighting over those cities. They might as well cut all the races other than chaos and empire. Extremely disheartening news, even the biggest fans now are questioning whether to get this game.
That's the burden of owning a IP license. Things must be right. I'd rather see them release only Empire and Chaose at release and introduce the other races, classes, and cities through expansions and preserve the integrity of the IP than to see them butcher the IP in the name of quality and an earlier release date.
Make no mistake, I will not tolerate a low quality game, nor am I asking them to release it before it's ready. But that's just it, if the game isn't ready for all the races to have their cities and classes, then the game either needs to cut the races and cities affiliated with them or delay the game until they can put them in correctly.
You can't spin an Elf giving two coppers about the rize or fall of a human city as a believable or good thing. Mythic needs to think about the integrity of the IP.
A number of people seem to be saying they should have pushed back the release, but I don't think that really would have helped in the case of the classes. From the way I read it the classes got cut not just because they simply weren’t balanced or polished, but because they where fundamentally broken in some way, which means the devs would have had to go back to the drawing board, and who knows how long that would take.
As for the cities, yeah it’s a shame they won’t be in at launch, but like has been said, the 2 cities that are left will be better than they otherwise would have been, and the devs can learn form what happens in the live game to make the other cities even better; so in the end it’s a benefit, and it probably won’t take much longer to get them in the game after launch than it would have taken if they delayed it; again.
If these where the only real reasons why they would have delayed the game then I think they made the right decision in shelving these 4 classes and cities instead. From everything I have heard form Mark and the other WAR devs I get a strong impression that they know what they are doing, so if they say it's not ready and needs to but cut from the game for the time being I am willing to trust their judgement on that. Besides, everything else is still there (assuming there is in no more bad news to come), all the game play mechanics and types are still there, so at the end of the day (or 6 months to a year) does it really matter if this stuff is in at launch or added within that time?
And if you really need those cities / classes to have fun in the game then simply don’t buy it till they are added; hey, you wanted it delayed anyway.
Originally posted by Zorgo I think MMO devs need to stop letting us in on the creative process of game development. Of course ideas are going to be ammended, augmented or eliminated in this type of a massive project. If they just kept their big mouths shut, we would never have even known these classes and cities would have even existed.We've been conditioned to believe that when a business puts something out there for the public, it has already gone thru the creative process and has been set in stone. Until mmo's, this was pretty true. But mmo's have developed a new marketing tactic that gives us a window into the process from A to Z.I think that marketing strategy has failed epically. Considering VG, AoC and now Warhammer, they have and will all feel the huge negative impacts from this innovative, yet disfunctional advertising plan.I say the development period should practice silence. Then 1 week or maybe 2 before launch, tell us about the game features. We would have no clue about ideas that ended up on the cutting room floor and be a lot happier with our lollipop.In this way, you wouldn't create a population of people attached to a feature that for whatever reason, doesn't make it into the game.The only other option would be to educate the entire mmo game population about the nature of give and take on a huge multimillion dollar project spanning years. But somehow, I doubt a certain segment would ever understand.
I have to say that I agree with this post. With that said, it doesn't matter when they announce the game, if it is based on an IP, it must maintain the integrity of that IP. From what I can tell, and that isn't much, races in Warhammer have race pride. I would think the other races wouldn't be rushing to the Empire/Chaos cities the way it will be played out.
Still skeptical of this game & waiting to see wtf mythic will finally decide to do. A pvp game anyone can jump into with massive warfare from the get-go and beautiful siege battles still sounds to me: too good to be true. I don't believe it and they'll need to prove it.
As for the annoucement, this is what I hear: Expansion Pack-Dwarves! Expansion Pack-Dark Elves! Expansion Pack-High Elves!! Expansion Pack- Greenskins!! Now complete with cities and all new classes!!
I also hear: We're in an hurry, just go with what we've got and hope it doesn't seem too identical to Stormwind & Orgrimarr. It'll work great, we think, we don't know, better just go with 2, it'll work great, if there's problems only 2 citys to fix, which will work great, maybe, we think, we don't know, we cant fix it live, well we can but that'd be harder, 4th quarter's INC!, put more dungeons in, it's a RVR game, still need double the dungeons (that sounds like PVE), no no it's pvp only you fight against npc and raid bosses, what?, it'll work great, well maybe, we don't know, just put these 2 out for now, these tanks seem similar, so do these dps classes, we better ditch them, really?? we worked for months on those, the armor's the same only this class's armor is black & that guy's is silver, it'll work great, we think.
I still have no idea what to think of this game. So Mythic "doesn't lie to the players", that's because their products didn't have the character, emersion, and mass appeal that Blizzard's do. E.A. Mediocre Entertainment, "we no lie, but no one cared".
Im not especially happy with the whole thing. I'm ok that they are dropping stuff because its not right but I have this nagging feeling this will turn into a money making exercise down the road.
At the end of the day if the game is good who gives a ....
For the people calling for a delay, this game is already on the backfoot, just wait till all those must buy games on the horizon arrive (starcraft 2, fable 2, spore), WAR got a subscription model it just doesn't need to win me over at the start it needs to keep winning me. The later this show starts the sooner it might end.
I played Warhammer tabletop for years.
Warhammer was NEVER about a collective good vs Evil.
Many battles are fought between the evil and good.
Elves vs Dwarf.
Greenskin vs Skaven
Each race was it's OWN side.
This throwing all factions together in 2 cities really looses the Warhammer feel for me.
Sides have allied, BUT they were seperate, and not always allies.
This seems to be yet again going down the path of promise but no delivery.
What is wrong with MMO companies that they can't get a game out on time?
These companies seem to be waisting tons of cash.
Well what can I say?
Must admit I was slightly disappointed with the news but, not too the point of crying in my cereal.
Will I still buy the game, sure cant see why I wouldn’t.
Atm there is a massive rift in the MMO market, WOW walks around with a effing great crown on its head and 10 million subs, AOC seems to generate massive amounts of hate and rage. And now WAR comes into the firing line because of cut content before release.
Please people try and be subjective.
I sat and I played WOW now for nearly 3 and a half years, do I consider it a great game?
It had its moments but after such a long time and tbh a lack lustre expansion I'm more than ready to move on and try something new. AOC really didn’t appeal to me and having seen some of the chaos that came with its launch I’m glad I didn’t jump straight in (firm believer in giving things a chance maybe in a few months).
WAR has been the one game that has truly drawn me towards playing MMO's again.
Anyway back to the topic. Kind of sad the classes got clipped but not being the type of player who only ever plays just one class, and the fact there’s still 20 of them with different play styles I cant understand those who are crying about losing the one class they where going to play?
Some of the "That’s it I’m not buying your game cause you removed XXXX is worrying. Sure we can get disappointed when something we are looking forward to doesn’t have the feature we so desire, but seriously out of all the classes you only wanted to play one??" Play a different one, you never know you might enjoy it or don’t buy the game it really is your choice.
As far as I’m concerned this isn’t all bad news and not really much of a surprise either (name a Modern MMO that came out with all the planned content intact) - but at least they have been honest about it for that they deserve some credit.
Will be watching WAR closely, if after these pre release cuts, the final product is still sub par then they will lose my custom. But atm the thought of some decent PVP still has my interest piqued.
I was looking forward to war till the cut. -shrug- sounding too much like a vanguard thing now, all those promises and no delivery. I cancelled both my CE of it, but if I hear good things after it's release I might consider getting the regular version.