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Warhammer Online : Age of Reckoning: Mark Jacobs Interview Part Two

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  • andmillerandmiller SF, CAPosts: 374Member

    I'll preface this by saying that I am extremely excited about this game, have followed its development since the beginning, and already have the pre-order.

    But guys come on, all this "cup half full" talk is a bit disheartening.  It is not a good thing that they are cutting 2/3 of the city content.  It is not a good thing that after this long they are cutting 4 classes because they are "not good enough".

     

    But even beyond that, I am a bit scared watching the videos.  I am the only person (aka, non WAR troll), who thinks that in the videos that have been shown, the action and fighting looks extremely slow and static?  Say what you will about WOW PVP and all the ludicrous jumping, from what I have seen in these videos the PVP is standing there bashing the other guy........very slowly.  Even watching the videos of the goblin exploring the Inev city, don't you think the run movements look extremely.....awkward?  It should look better by now.

    I'm worried about my game.

  • KnightTrueKnightTrue Fort Wayne, INPosts: 3Member

    I was really looking forward to this game being Warhammer in a DAOC fashion with great realm vs realm, and you guys couldn't even get the realm vs realm right. So now we only get 2 capital cities instead of 6?! How are the servers going to handle thousands of players in each capital city and continual fights over these very large cities?  They won't be able to handle the lag, nor will many of the playerbase have computers able to handle it. I mean at least give us some fortresses to fight over and claim in the game zones.

     

    What happens when a guild of 200 all reach top level and start to continually raid the opposing capital city a few days after launch? Many player won't be able to do any quests in that Capital city.  6 capital cities would have alleviated this issue.

     

    I figure EA told you guys to hold off on 4 classes to include in an expansion pack... we're not dumb enough to think you couldn't get them "right."

     

    It feels like Mythic is really catering this game to the masses. Turning it into a clone of WoW in attempts to draw more players, while killing off the pvp aspect of realm vs realm, bottlenecking the players in 2 lag filled capital cities, and keeping content out of the game to release in future expansion packs.

    You guys really blew it, I was looking forward to an epic game, but I've decided to cancel my CEdition Pre-Order.  Its not worth the price losing 4 cities and 4 classes and who knows what else after the game was already delayed a year. 

  • xenrikxenrik Hemel HempsteadPosts: 11Member
    Originally posted by Lethality <snip/>

    I understand that and respect it, but... what I meant was, if it's that simple to pull out the capital cities (even for quality reasons) they must have not been that integral to the game play and design.  I thought there would have been major game play subsystems that revolved around them, quest hubs, etc.

    And also, it begs the question - when WILL we see them? As part of a patch soon after release? And what about the classes? No doubt there are some people bummed about certain classes being dropped that they no doubt were going to play... they want to know if they'll be in 2 months? 6 months? Paid expansion? etc.

     

    I wonder if they've just removed the tier-4 zones for greenskin/dwarves and high/dark elves and the quests are now re-directed to the tier-4 zones in empire/chaos?

    Might make more sense to do the 'switch' at the tier threshold rather than just remove the capitol city section of tier 4?

    It might even be that the capitol cities will be there (in part at least) - but just can't be captured by the opposing factions yet?

    image

  • banthisbanthis orlando, FLPosts: 1,891Member
    Originally posted by Arawon


    Sounds like Mythic is doing a bit of "wandering in the desert" to me.My confidence they will make a fall launch has dropped. What's the latest on ORIGINS..if anything   ?



     

    ...how is this wandering in the desert?  They want to make their fall launch they know 4 cities would not have been finished on the level of the current 2 that are being worked on...so they decided we only launch with 2 concentrate our efforts on those 2 make them awsome so we reach launch instead of waiting another year or MORE to have 6 six cities.   How does that shoot your confidence down? I mean how does what you say make sense?    No one has EVER seen the other 4 cities that tells me if they'd wait to launch with all six we wouldn't see them until next fall maybe later and that would honestly suck.  

    Seiging is in, keeps are in, dungeons are in, lots of classes are in, 2 king encounters in, lots of gear in...boo hoo there's not 6 cities but we can still seige & pvp so what does it matter?  We can do all the things they promised just not in 6 different locations.

    You guys all complain when companies release subpar content but when a company makes a decision to hold off on unready content you cry about it. Its totally a lose lose situation no matter which way they go but I'm honestly glad to know we'll get 2 awsome cities instead 2 ok and 4 subpar and a bunch of broken. 

    http://www.war-rvr.net/  go here if you want ORIGINS news its pretty awsome right now.

  • banthisbanthis orlando, FLPosts: 1,891Member
    Originally posted by KnightTrue


    I was really looking forward to this game being Warhammer in a DAOC fashion with great realm vs realm, and you guys couldn't even get the realm vs realm right. So now we only get 2 capital cities instead of 6?! How are the servers going to handle thousands of players in each capital city and continual fights over these very large cities?  They won't be able to handle the lag, nor will many of the playerbase have computers able to handle it. I mean at least give us some fortresses to fight over and claim in the game zones.
     
    What happens when a guild of 200 all reach top level and start to continually raid the opposing capital city a few days after launch? Many player won't be able to do any quests in that Capital city.  6 capital cities would have alleviated this issue.
     
    I figure EA told you guys to hold off on 4 classes to include in an expansion pack... we're not dumb enough to think you couldn't get them "right."
     
    It feels like Mythic is really catering this game to the masses. Turning it into a clone of WoW in attempts to draw more players, while killing off the pvp aspect of realm vs realm, bottlenecking the players in 2 lag filled capital cities, and keeping content out of the game to release in future expansion packs.
    You guys really blew it, I was looking forward to an epic game, but I've decided to cancel my CEdition Pre-Order.  Its not worth the price losing 4 cities and 4 classes and who knows what else after the game was already delayed a year. 



     

    Takes more than 200 people to siege the city its is not a guild event.  So nice try at the trolling lol. 

  • Shaman64Shaman64 Watertown, CTPosts: 399Member
    Originally posted by kintrik


    ok.....
    Couple of questions then.
    Since there are onyl goign to be 2 capitol cities how is that going to affect the tiers? It has been said for over a year that each racial paring has teiar 1-4 and tier 4 has t he capitols in them. Now that the other teir 4 zones dont' have capitols what is the poitn for those zones? Will the influence points spill over to the empire/chaos teir 4 zone to determine if a city can be attacked? Are they removing All of the other races areas? I know they said the other cities will be added post launch, but how long after launch are they targetting? Some answers on this front need to be answered if they expect to keep some customers. Me for one, as I am dwarf player.
    For the classes, so that leaves Chaos and High Elfs with 4 classes each and the others with 3.



     

    Yea, this news greatly saddened me. Really wasn't something I wanted to wake up too in the morning. But I respect Mark and the company for telling us this news face to face,so to speak. The punkbuster tidbit seemed a little extreme, but we'll see how it effects the game's hackers and cheaters in the coming months if implemented.

    I did almost fall off my chair after reading the capitol city announcment. But Mythic sticks to thier promises, tells the truth, and does try to fix things. After years of running DAOC they have plenty of data concerning successes and mistakes. While watching both the empire and chaos capital city run threw I did notice they were both extremely large, yet scarecly populated with npcs. Which got me thinking a bit last night. You can hate the company, but at least respect them. They were stuck between an anvil and a hammer. They had postponed the game before, because they wished to make a better experience to players, to increase the quality of the greenskin and dwarf zones and expand on the empire and chaos areas.Now this time they could have either pushed the release date which would have been a early 2009 release date, or improve immensly on what they have and make it good to the players without releasing a game that had flaws and needed improvments. I can see logic in the decision made. My only concern is how this will effect racial pairing and tier rvr.

    The classes was an even bigger bomb, i can live with two content filled cities until the release of more.But I once again respect them for dropping four of thier brain children, whom they tweaked and worked on for months if not years. I had only wished other game developers would have done the same to some boring classes and try to balance and add new ones. The KotBS wasn't that much of a suprise. I didn't find him too interesting even in context. The choppa was a suprise to me as I'm sure it was to everyone. The hammerer also hit home with me too. The Black guard seemed an interesting career and I'm suprised that interest in him wasn't all too great. Mythic looked at the overall data and looked at the classes that people weren't using as a whole and decided to change.

    While some people may have decided to quit after this article. I still have trust and faith in Mythic and this warhammer adaptation. I'm going to play the game and try to enjoy it . If after three months of play content promised isn't even shown to be soon released then I'll start changing my opinions. Until then, War is still coming.

    image

  • BetaguyBetaguy Halifax, NSPosts: 2,590Member

    Great writeup and good read.  I think taking the highroad is always the better alternative regardless of the repercussions. At the end of the day I thank them for being straight shooters with us all this makes my decision in purchasing the game easy.  I will buy the game becuase they actually care about their client base.  This is the best article I read all week, thanks again for all your folks hard work over at mmorpg.

     

    PS. not sad about the 4 classes being dropped, I'm being a witch hunter anyways, hehe.

    image

  • TheSheikhTheSheikh San Marcos, TXPosts: 804Member

    Well its Mark, so if he thinks something is going to be released half-assed it most likely wont make it out.

    It is a let down that the other 4 cities will not be in at launch, but if it means they have some time to make the other four as massive and amazing as Altdorf and The Inevitable City I have no problems.

    The only thing I am disappointed in is the four classes that won't make it in. I am sure there are difficulties getting things to work with some of the classes, but I would love to see Mythic do thier best to get the Orc Choppa and the Dwarf Hammerer into the game. Though.... the Germans may be disappointed in not having the Blackguard. I was planning on making a Knight of the Blazing Sun myself, but I can try something else. The announcement is disappointing yes, but..... atleast they told us.

    Regardless, I'll be in the game at launch. Atleast I will have something to look forward to while in-game.

    STOP WHINING!

  • HexxeityHexxeity Kansas City, MOPosts: 848Member

    Odin's Beard, people.  It seems to be time for another vocabulary lesson!

    "Capitol" with an O is used only when referring to the building (not the city) where a legislative body meets.  (And when you are talking about the one in Washington, D.C., it should be capitalized.) 

    "Capital" with an A is for everything else: cities, letters, an idea -- everything else.

    Unless the political systems in WAR are far more advanced than they've let on, the word "capitol" with an O is generally unwarranted.

     

  • KremlikKremlik CrewePosts: 716Member

    From WHA's James - A Mythic CM:

    Hey guys,



    It's important to remember a few key facts:



    A) The game is still in development, it's important that we make the right decisions to have a successful launch.

    B) We want to make a great game, not a good game. I think we can all agree that playing a career that wasn't up to par with our standards doesn't accomplish that.

    C) Capital cities require you to capture 2 of the 3 campaigns. We'll have a much more informative explanation of how city capture works but it's now even more challenging and requires the cooperation of the entire realm to march to the gates of your enemies city and conquer their king, which in the end was always our goal.



    WAR, while now different, is more exciting and engaging then ever before and the cities and careers provide an experience to look forward too

    __________________

    Soo it looks like we still need to win control over the zones to 'unlock' the cities still, just that it seems what was 'teir 4 part 3' (ie the city areas) seems to be now 'tier 5' which as he said makes the whole thing swing back and forth a whole lot more, so at least they thought about the impact removing cities would do and worked a new system around it without drastically changing the game, all is still good (thats if those 4 classes aren't gone for good)

    Bring on the WARRRRGGHH!

  • DistasteDistaste Lancaster, PAPosts: 667Member
    Originally posted by Coldren

    Originally posted by Distaste



    So Order has a magic tank and Destruction doesn't. Destruction has a heavy tank and Order doesn't. Not really a balanced trade in my eyes.

     

    So what your saying is every faction should have a mirror? Some would say that makes for rather dull gameplay.



    In my opinion, it gives one side a distinct advantage over the other, and a distinct disadvantage. You have to use tactics to exploit those weakness and play to your own strengths, and I think it makes for much more interesting gameplay.  DAoC had that, and I really liked that about it. It emphasizes that your choices have consequences. Picking one faction over they other when they're equal essentially makes it a choice of aesthetics.. and that doesn't intereset me.

     

    I guess I should have explained a bit further!

    Since 2 of the Melee DPS have been removed that means there are more classes that can do ranged damage then there are classes that will use melee. So it would be advantages to have a tank that can deal with ranged damage since they are better against more opponents than it is to have a tank that is better against melee which there are less of.

    So a magical tank is worth more since there are more ranged classes.

    A physical tank is worth less since there are less melee.

    As for Shadow warriors, Squig herders, and the swordmaster I don't quite know the mechanics of what type of damage they do nor what all damage the swordmaster is best at absorbing(magical obviously but does that include all ranged?)

  • Silverthorn8Silverthorn8 LondonPosts: 489Member Uncommon

    These choice must have taken a lot guts to make and to go public with, much respect to them for that.

    The decision to hold back the last four cities is great to be honest, since as said in the interview when they are finally in the game they'll likely outshine the first two in content and polish.

    As for the four careers they axed, one can only hope they will implement 2 more class pairings to compensate at a later date (this will happen it's inevitable, if only for game symmetry). There are plenty of choices for replacement careers from the IP (I will have to research this of course).

    *Sigh* no Blackguard

  • Ascension08Ascension08 Williamsburg, VAPosts: 1,980Member
    Originally posted by andmiller


    I'll preface this by saying that I am extremely excited about this game, have followed its development since the beginning, and already have the pre-order.
    But guys come on, all this "cup half full" talk is a bit disheartening.  It is not a good thing that they are cutting 2/3 of the city content.  It is not a good thing that after this long they are cutting 4 classes because they are "not good enough".
     
    But even beyond that, I am a bit scared watching the videos.  I am the only person (aka, non WAR troll), who thinks that in the videos that have been shown, the action and fighting looks extremely slow and static?  Say what you will about WOW PVP and all the ludicrous jumping, from what I have seen in these videos the PVP is standing there bashing the other guy........very slowly.  Even watching the videos of the goblin exploring the Inev city, don't you think the run movements look extremely.....awkward?  It should look better by now.
    I'm worried about my game.

    Of course it's not a good thing, and we can all be upset and cry about a decision that was hard to make but one that's already been made, hopefully for the overall good of the game. Mythic never said the cities are gone forever, and they're thinking about adding in the classes later. The "glass half full" view is the only logical one to take, because even though this is bad, there's still alot of good things in the game.

    As for combat, most of those people don't even use skills or don't use them effectively. Beta testers have said it's on-par with WoW when it comes to speed, so you'll really have to play it to judge for yourself. It looks slow, but the vids usually have either casters or giant Chosens with 2H axes...which are slow. Animations are quirky but they are the last things to be polished so I wouldn't worry about that yet.

     

    --------------------------------------
    A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"

    Order of the White Border.

  • ProfRedProfRed Duluth, GAPosts: 3,511Member

    I think they should delay the launch with what is going on...  I wonder if they would have taken this same route if they didn't have AoC as an example.  Either way I don't think the game is ready to launch when they are launching it.

  • SavageLoreSavageLore Fairborn, OHPosts: 22Member

    I would like to see more at launch I am OK with it being less as long as they do things right and will focus on adding the content after launch.  The biggest issue is making sure the classes are balanced.  If they are not and have to tinker with them then that puts everything back farther.  That is when you get into problems,  people pushing professions out too fast and they not being balanced causing more issues and such.  This is what hurt games such as SWG,  The Devs not balancing professions and spending so much time even now still tinkering with the professions wasting time that could be used on other content or issues.  So Mythic saying they are dropping 4 classes (at least for the time being)  is a good thing.  Don't have content is that is not balanced and have to be fixed before other issues while having the chance to cause more issues with other professions because you are rushing the job.  That is not even considering the effect it would have on the players who picked those classes and fell they are not good enough,  have no real role,  or are broken and unable to play well.  Mythic doing the right thing is scaling back to make sure everything is done right the first time and not having to be fixed 5 times later to make them right.

    Making the Captial cities such an important aspect in the game demands they be done right also.  So by delaying them also helps WAR.  Though hopefully they can get 2 more cities out within the first few months after release.

    One of the things that as always endured me to Mythic was their open and honest talk about their games.  They have always shown how many games sold  and the more important part of how many people are active subscribers and how many people on at one time total and in what servers.  No other game company is this open no matter how much money they make on their games as they are afraid to show any sign that is not positive or inflated to look as such through PR spin.  Mythic has never been (even as a small company before DAOC came out and afterwards)  one to not cost themselves money by taking action against accounts.  From minor problems such as layers brekaing through a zone wall and getting into the PVE area's and killing the lowbies in those starter zones.  What happened to those 2 players?  ban for 2 weeks and dropped from lvl 50 to lvl 17 characters and all Realm Points lost,  with a warn of any more problems and their accounts would be ban.  Mythic even has openly talked about their Dev team failures.  Back near the end of DAOC beta there was still some lingering issues with Left Axe not working.  As this worked differently then Duel weild which the other two realms used it was only a problem for Midgard.  The Dev working on it said it had been fixed twice but when added to the game it clearly had now.  Mythic opening said in their test notes that they had fired the Dev running that and gotten someone else to work on it and sure enough it was ready to go soon after and before the game went live.  Mythic runs their games openly,  more so then any other company.  If they tell you something good or bad you can believe they mean it as they know their playerbase is the most imporatnt part of running games rather then running the players as so many other companies try and do.

  • GorillaGorilla Posts: 2,202Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kuji-Kiri


    Honestly, I'm disappointed with the Capital Cities, but from pretty much the first day I visited WAR's website, I had myself begged down for a Choppa, and from that point on, nothing else. I can't play anything but, sorry.

     

    Have you heard the expression "cutting off your nose to spite your face". I guess you will never play another game then until someone does WAR 'properly'. Sad you had invested so much emotioal energy into that one thing. Sucicide is painless.

  • tomosistomosis Pakruojis/KaunasPosts: 52Member

    Let's hope they will add the "missing" content with patches. Don't want to be forced to buy expansion later on.

    T.R.

  • mo0rbidmo0rbid nordmalingPosts: 363Member

    I'm actually happy about this! This means that Mythic cares about the quality of the game! atleast they're not lying and keeping us in the dark , I like that

    image

  • bmcinvaillebmcinvaille lancaster, SCPosts: 209Member

    So now we get 20 classes instead of 24 I will miss some of the classes bus honestly a few may be back or they may reinvite some of them. As for the cities I mean we never saw anything on the other 4 cities so I was kinda expecting that myself. They really wanna make a fall release date and just release the other stuff down the road. I mean I can understand this they wanna get the game out and have a great product without bogging stuff down with incomplete cities and classes.

    image

  • novafluxxnovafluxx Tampa, FLPosts: 13Member
    Originally posted by ProfRed


    I think they should delay the launch with what is going on...  I wonder if they would have taken this same route if they didn't have AoC as an example.  Either way I don't think the game is ready to launch when they are launching it.

     

    I bet they saw what happened wit Funcom and AoC and learned some lessons from it.

  • impulsebooksimpulsebooks CorringhamPosts: 561Member

    This news is a fucking disaster. Reducing to 2 capitals will probably make people roll Chaos and Empire careers leaving the other two depopulated. Also, its been said that has a quick fix you need to fight and win the war in 2 campaigns before you get to lay seige to Altdorf. That is just plain bad IMO. It reduces the entire game down to points. The lore and logic of taking ground and keeps and strategic points on the map goes out the window.

    What effect does a captured keep in the high elf area (just for instance) have on the defence of Altdorf for christsake! Everything in the two campaigns lacking cities has just been reduced to so much victory point grinding material.

    Some people seem to think the missing classes will be added after launch, but Jeff has already stated that is still under discussion! Under discussion!! With the usual post lauch fixes to do, does anyone believe Mythic will have the time to redo those four classes?

    ______________

    Mark E. Cooper
    AKA Tohrment
    Proud member of Damned Souls since 2007.
    http://www.damnedsouls.eu

  • xxUltimaxxxxUltimaxx Omak, WAPosts: 34Member
    Originally posted by Distaste

    Originally posted by Coldren

    Originally posted by Distaste



    So Order has a magic tank and Destruction doesn't. Destruction has a heavy tank and Order doesn't. Not really a balanced trade in my eyes.

     

    So what your saying is every faction should have a mirror? Some would say that makes for rather dull gameplay.



    In my opinion, it gives one side a distinct advantage over the other, and a distinct disadvantage. You have to use tactics to exploit those weakness and play to your own strengths, and I think it makes for much more interesting gameplay.  DAoC had that, and I really liked that about it. It emphasizes that your choices have consequences. Picking one faction over they other when they're equal essentially makes it a choice of aesthetics.. and that doesn't intereset me.

     

    I guess I should have explained a bit further!

    Since 2 of the Melee DPS have been removed that means there are more classes that can do ranged damage then there are classes that will use melee. So it would be advantages to have a tank that can deal with ranged damage since they are better against more opponents than it is to have a tank that is better against melee which there are less of.

    So a magical tank is worth more since there are more ranged classes.

    A physical tank is worth less since there are less melee.

    As for Shadow warriors, Squig herders, and the swordmaster I don't quite know the mechanics of what type of damage they do nor what all damage the swordmaster is best at absorbing(magical obviously but does that include all ranged?)

    Destruction still has its magical tank. Chosen was the Magic Tank...nobody really knew what Black Guard was gonna be yet. They had yet to release any substantive information on it. At least Chosen and marauder are still there :) (my little bit of greed). And there will still be 10,000 shadow warriors named legolas

    SWG is like meeting the hottest chick of all time and then have her give you every STD in the book and then she dresses a monkey up like a baby sues for child support and the judge says yes

  • ShrubHeadShrubHead Bountiful, UTPosts: 9Member

     

    It's amazing that as gamers for the last decade we've been fed nothing but low quality games with a few gems mixed in with the slop. And as soon as someone starts doing something for quality control some of us start to cry fowl.

    If anything this interview makes me respect Mythic -and- EA.

    Mythic for having standards and realizing that some content wasn't ready or up to said bar.

    EA for what seems to be a genuine attempt at pulling their heads out of their collective arse, though that could quickly change.

    For now I'll stick with their words and wait patiently for the NDA to be lifted; If they don't pull a Funcom that is.

  • StraddenStradden Managing Editor Halifax, NSPosts: 6,696Member
    Originally posted by impulsebooks


    This news is a fucking disaster. Reducing to 2 capitals will probably make people roll Chaos and Empire careers leaving the other two depopulated. Also, its been said that has a quick fix you need to fight and win the war in 2 campaigns before you get to lay seige to Altdorf. That is just plain bad IMO. It reduces the entire game down to points. The lore and logic of taking ground and keeps and strategic points on the map goes out the window.
    What effect does a captured keep in the high elf area (just for instance) have on the defence of Altdorf for christsake! Everything in the two campaigns lacking cities has just been reduced to so much victory point grinding material.
    Some people seem to think the missing classes will be added after launch, but Jeff has already stated that is still under discussion! Under discussion!! With the usual post lauch fixes to do, does anyone believe Mythic will have the time to redo those four classes?

     

    Where are you getting yoyur information? I only ask because I hadn't heard anything about winning multiple campaigns or any comments from Jeff Hickman.

    Cheers,
    Jon Wood
    Managing Editor
    MMORPG.com

  • VegettaVegetta Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 438Member


    Originally posted by Stradden
    Originally posted by impulsebooks This news is a fucking disaster. Reducing to 2 capitals will probably make people roll Chaos and Empire careers leaving the other two depopulated. Also, its been said that has a quick fix you need to fight and win the war in 2 campaigns before you get to lay seige to Altdorf. That is just plain bad IMO. It reduces the entire game down to points. The lore and logic of taking ground and keeps and strategic points on the map goes out the window.
    What effect does a captured keep in the high elf area (just for instance) have on the defence of Altdorf for christsake! Everything in the two campaigns lacking cities has just been reduced to so much victory point grinding material.
    Some people seem to think the missing classes will be added after launch, but Jeff has already stated that is still under discussion! Under discussion!! With the usual post lauch fixes to do, does anyone believe Mythic will have the time to redo those four classes?
     
    Where are you getting yoyur information? I only ask because I hadn't heard anything about winning multiple campaigns or any comments from Jeff Hickman.

    Over on WHA in one of the 8 thousand threads this article spawned James Said you will now need to control 2 of the parings to advance to the capitol city stage...

    image

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