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  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,989Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TdogSkal
    How do you figure?  How many eople work on Hollywood movies?  How many are leaked to the public?    - In fact, nearly all Hollywood movies can be burned off the internet illegally, many before they are even in the theatres.

    If you are talking about a few hundred PROFESSIONAL game testers it is easy to control them... if they break the NDA, they will never work in the industry again... you have to realize the gaming industry is really not that large and most people know each other and talk often.

     

    Professional game testers could easily leak information if they chose to and no one would be the wiser. 

    And no, DF does not have 500 professional testers.  In fact, if they really only have about 30 or so Devs which we've read on a few occasions, the normal ratio of QA that you would hire would about 10, one tester for every three Devs.

    So you think 10 testers can thoroughly test DF?  I say not.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • PolarizationPolarization LondonPosts: 1,410Member

    Here’s the QA…we worked with lists sent to us by community members and tried to answer as many as possible without too much embellishing.

    So you've presumably been "embellishing" answers in the past as well, and your apparently still "embellishing" these answers to some exstent by your own volition.

    How much exactly of what the community thinks it knows about Darkfall is actually based only on your embellishements?, hopefully not to much.

    There was an effort to answer question categories that weren’t addressed in the previous Q&A’s.

    Yes, I can imagine that could be starting to be a problem by now, considering how many Q&A's there's been over the year's.

    How about ending the Q&A's and starting the show and tells.

    We didn’t address the questions having to do with beta and publishing due to recent developments, we would like more time before we get into that.

    What exactly are the developments that have prevented you from answering questions about Beta and publishing?.

    And how much more time will it be before you "get into that", becuase there's less then 6 months left.

  • TdogSkalTdogSkal Livonia, MIPosts: 1,244Member
    Originally posted by huxflux2004

    Originally posted by TdogSkal

    Originally posted by Antikythera

    Originally posted by TdogSkal 


    How would 500 professional beta testers working internal not be able to do the same as 100,000 random gamers invited to a closed beta? 



     

    Darkfall does not have 500 internal testers and if you believe they do you're living in a dream land.

    If they had 500 testers there would be lots of leaks of videos and screenshots all over the net and info.

    You cannot control a few hundred people. It's impossible.

    How do you figure?  How many eople work on Hollywood movies?  How many are leaked to the public?

    If you are talking about a few hundred PROFESSIONAL game testers it is easy to control them... if they break the NDA, they will never work in the industry again... you have to realize the gaming industry is really not that large and most people know each other and talk often.

     

    Where the hell do you pull those numbers from? 500 professional testers? There has never - ever been a game with that many people in QA. Do you have any clue how much 500 people would cost for a company? Most MMORPG developers do not have 500 devs + support staff. And I am not talking about the possibility of Aventurine having 500 QA guys, I would dare to say that even Blizzard does not have a third of that amount.

     

    And the industry is small? Most people know each other and talk often? How the hell can a multibillion multinational industry be like that? There might be more than a 100k people over the world working in gaming. You really think that most of them know each other? And what is the company going to do if someone violates the NDA? Post a bounty with his face out of the Sheriff's office?

     

    ...and you are working for an MMORPG? What do you do? Work in the cantina?

    500 was pulled out of the air, it was just so I can make it more clear.

     

    way to grab one post from a whole thread and pull it out of contexts to make your point.

    Fine you guys are right, Darkfall is fake and never going to be releaseds.  Whatever, not worth talking to you guys anymore since you cant let go of your blind hatred long enough to have a decend conversation without personal attacks.

    Sooner or Later

  • Aragon100Aragon100 OsloPosts: 2,224Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TdogSkal

    Originally posted by huxflux2004

    Originally posted by TdogSkal

    Originally posted by Antikythera

    Originally posted by TdogSkal 


    How would 500 professional beta testers working internal not be able to do the same as 100,000 random gamers invited to a closed beta? 



     

    Darkfall does not have 500 internal testers and if you believe they do you're living in a dream land.

    If they had 500 testers there would be lots of leaks of videos and screenshots all over the net and info.

    You cannot control a few hundred people. It's impossible.

    How do you figure?  How many eople work on Hollywood movies?  How many are leaked to the public?

    If you are talking about a few hundred PROFESSIONAL game testers it is easy to control them... if they break the NDA, they will never work in the industry again... you have to realize the gaming industry is really not that large and most people know each other and talk often.

     

    Where the hell do you pull those numbers from? 500 professional testers? There has never - ever been a game with that many people in QA. Do you have any clue how much 500 people would cost for a company? Most MMORPG developers do not have 500 devs + support staff. And I am not talking about the possibility of Aventurine having 500 QA guys, I would dare to say that even Blizzard does not have a third of that amount.

     

    And the industry is small? Most people know each other and talk often? How the hell can a multibillion multinational industry be like that? There might be more than a 100k people over the world working in gaming. You really think that most of them know each other? And what is the company going to do if someone violates the NDA? Post a bounty with his face out of the Sheriff's office?

     

    ...and you are working for an MMORPG? What do you do? Work in the cantina?

    500 was pulled out of the air, it was just so I can make it more clear.

     

    way to grab one post from a whole thread and pull it out of contexts to make your point.

    Fine you guys are right, Darkfall is fake and never going to be releaseds.  Whatever, not worth talking to you guys anymore since you cant let go of your blind hatred long enough to have a decend conversation without personal attacks.



     

    Aye talking to these trolls is like talking to a wall.

    Whats really surprices me is the poor moderation of this board and others. As i see it the moderators of MMORPG.com is allowing way to much trolling on the website. Its like a verbal warzone for fans and haters . I rarely see any constructive reasoning on this website anymore.

    Some threads is so obvious troll attempts from the OP and no moderation whatsoever from moderators. Kinda hard to have any constructive discussions in such a climate.

  • SilvarchSilvarch Here, TXPosts: 233Member
    Originally posted by TdogSkal

    Originally posted by huxflux2004

    Originally posted by TdogSkal

    Originally posted by Antikythera

    Originally posted by TdogSkal 


    How would 500 professional beta testers working internal not be able to do the same as 100,000 random gamers invited to a closed beta? 



     

    Darkfall does not have 500 internal testers and if you believe they do you're living in a dream land.

    If they had 500 testers there would be lots of leaks of videos and screenshots all over the net and info.

    You cannot control a few hundred people. It's impossible.

    How do you figure?  How many eople work on Hollywood movies?  How many are leaked to the public?

    If you are talking about a few hundred PROFESSIONAL game testers it is easy to control them... if they break the NDA, they will never work in the industry again... you have to realize the gaming industry is really not that large and most people know each other and talk often.

     

    Where the hell do you pull those numbers from? 500 professional testers? There has never - ever been a game with that many people in QA. Do you have any clue how much 500 people would cost for a company? Most MMORPG developers do not have 500 devs + support staff. And I am not talking about the possibility of Aventurine having 500 QA guys, I would dare to say that even Blizzard does not have a third of that amount.

     

    And the industry is small? Most people know each other and talk often? How the hell can a multibillion multinational industry be like that? There might be more than a 100k people over the world working in gaming. You really think that most of them know each other? And what is the company going to do if someone violates the NDA? Post a bounty with his face out of the Sheriff's office?

     

    ...and you are working for an MMORPG? What do you do? Work in the cantina?

    500 was pulled out of the air, it was just so I can make it more clear.

     

    way to grab one post from a whole thread and pull it out of contexts to make your point.

    Fine you guys are right, Darkfall is fake and never going to be releaseds.  Whatever, not worth talking to you guys anymore since you cant let go of your blind hatred long enough to have a decend conversation without personal attacks.

     

    You pulling stuff out of the air was exactly the point I wanted to make, thanks for making it clear. It wasn't one post, and it wasn't pulled out of context either.

    I've never, ever said Darkfall is fake and is never going to be released, I just interjected when you started talking about and criticizing an industry and processes you obviously have no clue on just to defend the deficiencies and inadequacies of the game and staff you stalwartly defend. I don't have any feelings of hate towards Darkfall, its staff or anything else actually (except double standards and logical fallacies), in fact, I rarely even mention it directly. Even if someone does hate it for some reason, it does not make their arguments automatically void and invalid, but you seem to choose to play the emotion card instead of backing arguments rationally with cold hard reasoning, while at the same time apparently choosing to ignore every counter argument given to you. Have you noticed you seemingly forget about the points you've made that have been refuted (like closed beta for advertisement, single player closed betas, multiplayer closed betas, feasible amount of internal QA,overestimation of internal QA communication and extensive effectiveness, asking your superiors at CoS their opinion, etc) without admittance that perhaps your reasoning was/is wrong? The only thing I've seen that could be considered a personal attack on you was the questioning of the validity of the credentials you presented yourself, and given the arguments you've presented so far I'd say it's justified.

    But I agree that it might not be worth talking anymore since you can't let go of your blind faith and conviction long enough to have a decent and rational conversation.

  • TdogSkalTdogSkal Livonia, MIPosts: 1,244Member
    Originally posted by Silvarch

    Originally posted by TdogSkal

    Originally posted by huxflux2004

    Originally posted by TdogSkal

    Originally posted by Antikythera

    Originally posted by TdogSkal 


    How would 500 professional beta testers working internal not be able to do the same as 100,000 random gamers invited to a closed beta? 



     

    Darkfall does not have 500 internal testers and if you believe they do you're living in a dream land.

    If they had 500 testers there would be lots of leaks of videos and screenshots all over the net and info.

    You cannot control a few hundred people. It's impossible.

    How do you figure?  How many eople work on Hollywood movies?  How many are leaked to the public?

    If you are talking about a few hundred PROFESSIONAL game testers it is easy to control them... if they break the NDA, they will never work in the industry again... you have to realize the gaming industry is really not that large and most people know each other and talk often.

     

    Where the hell do you pull those numbers from? 500 professional testers? There has never - ever been a game with that many people in QA. Do you have any clue how much 500 people would cost for a company? Most MMORPG developers do not have 500 devs + support staff. And I am not talking about the possibility of Aventurine having 500 QA guys, I would dare to say that even Blizzard does not have a third of that amount.

     

    And the industry is small? Most people know each other and talk often? How the hell can a multibillion multinational industry be like that? There might be more than a 100k people over the world working in gaming. You really think that most of them know each other? And what is the company going to do if someone violates the NDA? Post a bounty with his face out of the Sheriff's office?

     

    ...and you are working for an MMORPG? What do you do? Work in the cantina?

    500 was pulled out of the air, it was just so I can make it more clear.

     

    way to grab one post from a whole thread and pull it out of contexts to make your point.

    Fine you guys are right, Darkfall is fake and never going to be releaseds.  Whatever, not worth talking to you guys anymore since you cant let go of your blind hatred long enough to have a decend conversation without personal attacks.

     

    You pulling stuff out of the air was exactly the point I wanted to make, thanks for making it clear. It wasn't one post, and it wasn't pulled out of context either.

    I've never, ever said Darkfall is fake and is never going to be released, I just interjected when you started talking about and criticizing an industry and processes you obviously have no clue on just to defend the deficiencies and inadequacies of the game and staff you stalwartly defend. I don't have any feelings of hate towards Darkfall, its staff or anything else actually (except double standards and logical fallacies), in fact, I rarely even mention it directly. Even if someone does hate it for some reason, it does not make their arguments automatically void and invalid, but you seem to choose to play the emotion card instead of backing arguments rationally with cold hard reasoning, while at the same time apparently choosing to ignore every counter argument given to you. Have you noticed you seemingly forget about the points you've made that have been refuted (like closed beta for advertisement, single player closed betas, multiplayer closed betas, feasible amount of internal QA,overestimation of internal QA communication and extensive effectiveness, asking your superiors at CoS their opinion, etc) without admittance that perhaps your reasoning was/is wrong? The only thing I've seen that could be considered a personal attack on you was the questioning of the validity of the credentials you presented yourself, and given the arguments you've presented so far I'd say it's justified.

    But I agree that it might not be worth talking anymore since you can't let go of your blind faith and conviction long enough to have a decent and rational conversation.

    You know what I can respect your point of view but I do not have blind faith in Darkfall.  My faith is in the MMORPG industry as a whole and I see Darkfall as the first step in the right direction since post WoW.

     

    I honesty dont care if a game called Darkfall ever gets released.  I just want an MMORPG with a fantasy setting that has the same feature list that Darkfall offers but you guys cannot accept that and call me a Darkfall fanboy.

    I agree, I was wrong in this thread, I am man enough to admit when I am wrong.   Its that simple.

    Sooner or Later

  • SilvarchSilvarch Here, TXPosts: 233Member
    Originally posted by TdogSkal

    Originally posted by Silvarch

    Originally posted by TdogSkal

    Originally posted by huxflux2004

    Originally posted by TdogSkal

    Originally posted by Antikythera

    Originally posted by TdogSkal 


    How would 500 professional beta testers working internal not be able to do the same as 100,000 random gamers invited to a closed beta? 



     

    Darkfall does not have 500 internal testers and if you believe they do you're living in a dream land.

    If they had 500 testers there would be lots of leaks of videos and screenshots all over the net and info.

    You cannot control a few hundred people. It's impossible.

    How do you figure?  How many eople work on Hollywood movies?  How many are leaked to the public?

    If you are talking about a few hundred PROFESSIONAL game testers it is easy to control them... if they break the NDA, they will never work in the industry again... you have to realize the gaming industry is really not that large and most people know each other and talk often.

     

    Where the hell do you pull those numbers from? 500 professional testers? There has never - ever been a game with that many people in QA. Do you have any clue how much 500 people would cost for a company? Most MMORPG developers do not have 500 devs + support staff. And I am not talking about the possibility of Aventurine having 500 QA guys, I would dare to say that even Blizzard does not have a third of that amount.

     

    And the industry is small? Most people know each other and talk often? How the hell can a multibillion multinational industry be like that? There might be more than a 100k people over the world working in gaming. You really think that most of them know each other? And what is the company going to do if someone violates the NDA? Post a bounty with his face out of the Sheriff's office?

     

    ...and you are working for an MMORPG? What do you do? Work in the cantina?

    500 was pulled out of the air, it was just so I can make it more clear.

     

    way to grab one post from a whole thread and pull it out of contexts to make your point.

    Fine you guys are right, Darkfall is fake and never going to be releaseds.  Whatever, not worth talking to you guys anymore since you cant let go of your blind hatred long enough to have a decend conversation without personal attacks.

     

    You pulling stuff out of the air was exactly the point I wanted to make, thanks for making it clear. It wasn't one post, and it wasn't pulled out of context either.

    I've never, ever said Darkfall is fake and is never going to be released, I just interjected when you started talking about and criticizing an industry and processes you obviously have no clue on just to defend the deficiencies and inadequacies of the game and staff you stalwartly defend. I don't have any feelings of hate towards Darkfall, its staff or anything else actually (except double standards and logical fallacies), in fact, I rarely even mention it directly. Even if someone does hate it for some reason, it does not make their arguments automatically void and invalid, but you seem to choose to play the emotion card instead of backing arguments rationally with cold hard reasoning, while at the same time apparently choosing to ignore every counter argument given to you. Have you noticed you seemingly forget about the points you've made that have been refuted (like closed beta for advertisement, single player closed betas, multiplayer closed betas, feasible amount of internal QA,overestimation of internal QA communication and extensive effectiveness, asking your superiors at CoS their opinion, etc) without admittance that perhaps your reasoning was/is wrong? The only thing I've seen that could be considered a personal attack on you was the questioning of the validity of the credentials you presented yourself, and given the arguments you've presented so far I'd say it's justified.

    But I agree that it might not be worth talking anymore since you can't let go of your blind faith and conviction long enough to have a decent and rational conversation.

    You know what I can respect your point of view but I do not have blind faith in Darkfall.  My faith is in the MMORPG industry as a whole and I see Darkfall as the first step in the right direction since post WoW.

     

    I honesty dont care if a game called Darkfall ever gets released.  I just want an MMORPG with a fantasy setting that has the same feature list that Darkfall offers but you guys cannot accept that and call me a Darkfall fanboy.

    I agree, I was wrong in this thread, I am man enough to admit when I am wrong.   Its that simple.

    " I just want an MMORPG with a fantasy setting that has the same feature list that Darkfall offers but you guys cannot accept that and call me a Darkfall fanboy."

    Well, this I can accept, because I too want the same thing, it's the reason I'm here. I care whether Darkfall is released or not because I'd like to play a game with a feature list like it. I have my reservations about how successful it can or will be, but at the very least I'd like to try it, so I wish it success. I don't think it's the right direction to take, per se, because that's personal opinion and the numbers would argue otherwise, but it's certainly a different direction to take and that's always a good thing. Now what's not a good thing is to celebrate any and all questionable measures by its developers as well as take things for granted or tolerate misinformation, vague statements or incompetence from them, or defend them from valid arguments without any proof whatsoever and constantly relying on logical fallacies to argue anything and squelch any criticism.

    Following any game is good and all, but it should be done with a healthy dose of skepticism. Trust and respect should be earned, not taken for granted.

  • Aragon100Aragon100 OsloPosts: 2,224Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Polarization

    Originally posted by Vansinne


    Intresting Q&A. A lot has not been mentioned before.
     
    Tdog, let the puppies have their time here. I understand their frustation IRL, here they can get out their frustation and be whoever they'll like! Without a bully breathing down their neck.
    I almost feel sad for them. Poor crying trolls



     

    Let me pose you and anyone else who appears to be satisfied with this latest update a question.

    For how many more months will you continue to be satisfied by text only updates, that don’t have definitive answers about beta, publishing or launch?

    Are your standards and expectations so low, that by December this year you will still be perfectly happy receiving vague and ambiguous text only updates?

    Do you actually expect any form of accountability or demonstration from the developers at all, or are you still content to continue hearing “soon” indefinitely, even after 7 years, without complaint?



     

    Since its going to be released 2008 i presume there will be more then text before launch, what do you think?

  • bluealien1bluealien1 Moosup, CTPosts: 526Member
    Originally posted by Aragon100

    Originally posted by Polarization

    Originally posted by Vansinne


    Intresting Q&A. A lot has not been mentioned before.
     
    Tdog, let the puppies have their time here. I understand their frustation IRL, here they can get out their frustation and be whoever they'll like! Without a bully breathing down their neck.
    I almost feel sad for them. Poor crying trolls

     

     

     

    Let me pose you and anyone else who appears to be satisfied with this latest update a question.

    For how many more months will you continue to be satisfied by text only updates, that don’t have definitive answers about beta, publishing or launch?

    Are your standards and expectations so low, that by December this year you will still be perfectly happy receiving vague and ambiguous text only updates?

    Do you actually expect any form of accountability or demonstration from the developers at all, or are you still content to continue hearing “soon” indefinitely, even after 7 years, without complaint?



     

    Since its going to be released 2008 i presume there will be more then text before launch, what do you think?

     

    When Dec.31 rolls around and you don't have your game I'll be laughing... Alot...

  • Aragon100Aragon100 OsloPosts: 2,224Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bluealien1

    Originally posted by Aragon100

    Originally posted by Polarization

    Originally posted by Vansinne


    Intresting Q&A. A lot has not been mentioned before.
     
    Tdog, let the puppies have their time here. I understand their frustation IRL, here they can get out their frustation and be whoever they'll like! Without a bully breathing down their neck.
    I almost feel sad for them. Poor crying trolls

     

     

     

    Let me pose you and anyone else who appears to be satisfied with this latest update a question.

    For how many more months will you continue to be satisfied by text only updates, that don’t have definitive answers about beta, publishing or launch?

    Are your standards and expectations so low, that by December this year you will still be perfectly happy receiving vague and ambiguous text only updates?

    Do you actually expect any form of accountability or demonstration from the developers at all, or are you still content to continue hearing “soon” indefinitely, even after 7 years, without complaint?



     

    Since its going to be released 2008 i presume there will be more then text before launch, what do you think?

     

    When Dec.31 rolls around and you don't have your game I'll be laughing... Alot...



     

    Same here mate. Late 2008 when i enter Agon first time i promise you i will give you some thought.=)

    I might even remind you in a little thread, who knows.

  • ZorvanZorvan nowhere, CAPosts: 8,912Member
    Originally posted by Aragon100

    Originally posted by bluealien1

    Originally posted by Aragon100

    Originally posted by Polarization

    Originally posted by Vansinne


    Intresting Q&A. A lot has not been mentioned before.
     
    Tdog, let the puppies have their time here. I understand their frustation IRL, here they can get out their frustation and be whoever they'll like! Without a bully breathing down their neck.
    I almost feel sad for them. Poor crying trolls

     

     

     

    Let me pose you and anyone else who appears to be satisfied with this latest update a question.

    For how many more months will you continue to be satisfied by text only updates, that don’t have definitive answers about beta, publishing or launch?

    Are your standards and expectations so low, that by December this year you will still be perfectly happy receiving vague and ambiguous text only updates?

    Do you actually expect any form of accountability or demonstration from the developers at all, or are you still content to continue hearing “soon” indefinitely, even after 7 years, without complaint?



     

    Since its going to be released 2008 i presume there will be more then text before launch, what do you think?

     

    When Dec.31 rolls around and you don't have your game I'll be laughing... Alot...



     

    Same here mate. Late 2008 when i enter Agon first time i promise you i will give you some thought.=)

    I might even remind you in a little thread, who knows.



     

    The only way you'll be entering Agon in late 2008 will be if you create it yourself.

    Better get crackin'.

  • SlyLoKSlyLoK Sugar Grove, VAPosts: 1,546Member Uncommon

    Since Aventurine can create those obviously awesome AI bots ( ahaha ) why dont they just create real robots and take over the world? After all it looks like they are the only ones to have such technology and would be the only ones able to do so!

    Weeeeeeeeee!

    image

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