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How Jedi should have been done
jusomdude
Member RarePosts: 2,706
It's pretty lame to see every other player playing a Jedi. I think they should have kept Jedi an alpha class... made them playable from the start... but with a time limit for each month... say a player could only play their Jedi character 24 hours a month. You might see a lot of Jedi running around at the beginning of each month but with this system you would generally see less Jedi.
I think this is how they should have handled Jedi... how do you think they should have handled them?
Comments
I think the profession grinding was "ok" but they should have made it a normal profession, not "alpha" and name it "force sensitive". This way there would probably have been less jedi when everyone and their mother weren't grinding jedi to pwn in PVP.
They should have never put in 70-90% resist armors,cap stat buffs or gotten rid of the "perma death" system. If they would have done these things here we would have never seen a Jedi running around.
On another note, from the start they should have also made your jedi alignment the same alignment your main character (highest level) and made it where they teffed only against oppsing Jedi of different factions.
It was idiotic have Jedi in SWG, in retrospect Koester said it was probably the biggest mistake of the game. They should have had Force sensitive individuals with Jediesque powers at the price of being Hounded by the Empire, that’s the Approach West End games used for Jedi in the PnP RPG and it worked . The alternative and what will be used in the next SW MMO will probably be KOTOR timeline.
I remember saying this during beta but I was shouted down by the Uber gamers that just have to have their Jedi.
Told you so just don't quite cut it.
If I had my way there would be no player Jedi at all.
But if they had to have player Jedi in the game I would have left them as an alpha class but neutral only - no factional alignment.
IMO they have no place in the GCW in this time period. They're supposed to be in hiding, not on the front lines.
Making them alpha was the problem, and the second problem was removing permadeath.
Jedi should have never gone in. The Class just didn't belong in the GCW Timeline, people just didn't understand the whole idea of "Risk vs Reward" really people wanted the reward part with little Risk. I hate saying that but well that's what happen. Not only that Jedi did bring in some players who only saw it as a way to "pwn teh noob" faster and could careless about anything behind it.
Now really if Jedi 'had' to go in, and lord knows if it didn't people would be screaming for it even today I would have done it this way....
No 'Alpha' what so ever. People who unlock it have about the same powers and what not as Luke in New Hope. It would for the most part just be an unlockable Melee Class. The selling point would be having a better Lightsaber Crafting/Moding system in the game, much like KOTOR 2. Also calling it "Jedi" would be out, it would have been "Force User" or something along those lines.
haveing jedi as an alpha class was fine but shouldve left the perma death intact fear of losing somthing someone put so much time and effort in wouldve kept the population in check just my oppinion tho
Every last response on this thread reflects a gamer's perspective.
The problem is, the perspective of gamers is insignificant compared to the power of Mammon.
Jedi were in this game as the central point of the marketing strategy, to hell with what constitutes good gaming. You're dealing with the Ferengi slime of Lucas Arts here...who see you all as children to be condescended to and with pockets that need to be picked. The magic name "Star Wars" isn't as much magic without "Jedi" to sell the bantha poodoo in a box.
The original Jedi plan, with perma death (three deaths and you start all over from scratch) would have kept the population down. Of course, it would have also frustrated the hell out of the asshat "Pwnzor the n00b with saber" and "duel me!" crowds...the groups that Lucas Arts thought constituted the entire player base.
Serious RPers LOVED permadeath because it reinforced roleplay...that of the Force sensitive in hiding from an opressive Empire that would hunt them at every turn. At least they had game mechanisms that had a seriously ANH/ESB feel to them.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
I don't agree with the idea of player Jedi not being in the game at all... to many people Jedi is synonymous with Star Wars. Perma death would have kept population low but would also be very frustrating to many which I'm sure the pockets behind the scenes wouldn't want. So I think perma death was also a bad idea, on both the players end, and the developers/producers. I believe the idea I originally posted is a nice middle ground.
not really.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
not really.
Care to be a little more constructive?
not really.
Care to be a little more constructive?
The problem with player Jedi is that getting an FS slot was the ultimate phat loot of SWG. Jedi in SWG had far more in common with Sith than with Jedi. Their advancement was based on death. It undermined the entire point of Jedi in the lore. There was no game mechanism in place to do the ideal of Jedi justice. So Jedi in SWG became the antithesis of the lore.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
It should have been done how it was originally. Perma death was good imo (3 or 4 deaths to account for lag I believe). Possibly add in something to reattain your FS slot after losing it though. You can say its screwed up or whatever, but it couldnt possibly be any more screwed up than the way things are now
.
What this meant was that you might try to grind up an FS toon, and the toon might advance a bit, then die, and you could start all over again with a new FS character if you wished.
When they created the second slot for everyone right after the NGE, through their own utter incompetence created a third slot for those who had already unlocked. NOW if you delete the "*unlock slot" toon it's gone, and with it the slot, but this was not true before everyone got the second slot on a server.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
jedi should have never been in the game but thats just me
To become a Jedi, one should have had to locate a Jedi NPC that was in hiding (not Obi-wan or Yoda) and have them train them. That Jedi NPC would be the NPC that you go to for training, but you don't have to become a Jedi. You could for example just pick up some skills that make you better at your profession. For example, you could become a better and faster shot if you were a pistoleer.
Let's say you did want to become a Padawan after meeting this NPC Jedi. You would have to prove that you were pure in heart by completing some quests that prove you are a honorable and noble person. Once these quests are done, you would become a Padawan, receiving your Padawan Robes, a haircut (braid), and a training saber. As a Padawan, you would be given a string of quests that would teach you about the force and how Jedi use the force. During this time, your xp could be used to train in your basic force powers and lightsaber techniques. For example, Padawans would gain the ability to perform Force Push, Pull, Run, and other hallmark Novice abilities that Padawans would be able to perform. Once you complete these string of quests, which essentially test your bravery and teach you the ways of a Jedi, you would be given your Knight trials.
Your Knight trials would test the areas tested in the books and movies, including creating your own lightsaber. For example, to create your lightsaber, you would have to adventure for a lightsaber crystal, which would be hard to come by in the game and the color would be random. The metal workings and power source of the lightsaber would be craftable by different players (metal tubing, lens, etc.). During the actualy creation process, you would be able to choose a lightsaber style, with the exception of double-bladed lightsabers, since only experts could use these. Upon completion of the knight trials, you would be granted a Knights Robe, be allowed to grow your hair out, and have access to all force abilities for training under the Master level. As a Knight, you could be a jack of all trades, which means you would dabble in lightsaber skills, defensive force abilities, and offensive force abilities or you could specialize in any 1 of those and become an expert in it and good in another tree, but no skill in the last tree. Knights could create 1st -3rd Generation lightsabers, depending on their specialization path.
To become a Jedi Master, you'd have to go through the Master Trials, which are akin to the Knights Trial, except on a much harder level. There could be other requirements for becoming a Master aswell. Upon completion of the Master trials, you would be awarded a master robe and the ability to train your skills to master levels. Master Jedi that specialize in lightsaber combat would then be able to train in Double bladed or dual weilding sabers, while force masters would gain strong defensive and offensive force abilities. Masters will also have the ability to create a color crystal after their own name. They would be able to customize the color with the use of sliders and such for a unique look, but the crystals would have no stat enhancements. Master would be able to create 4th - 5th generation lightsabers, depending on their specialization path.
There would be no need for more ranks or an FRS system. Jedi would be a seperate faction and path could be created to "fall" from the lightside and become a Dark Jedi. Dark Jedi and Jedi would be at war with each other obviously, but there wouldn't be an FRS system.
Jedi and Dark Jedi would be rare due to the lotto system and gaining new skills in the system would take a while. So becoming a Padawan wouldn't take long, maybe a day of questing. It would take a month of hardcore play to become a Knight and a few months of hardcore play to become a Master.
Padawans just starting out would be slightly more powerful than a normal class, but beatable 1v1 if the normal class is skilled and the Padawan isn't. A trained Padawan of the verge of becoming a Knight would be able to take 2 normal classes on at the same time without much effort if they are good, but would lose if he is bad and the two normal classes are good. A Knight just starting out would be able to take on 3 normal classes at once and would progress up to 7 as they gain more skills or better proficiency in them. Masters starting out would be able to take on 7-10 normal classes depending on their skill levels.
The draw back to being a Jedi is that you would be constantly hunted if a person ever found out you were a Jedi and anyone could collect on that bounty, not just bounty hunters. If you are killed, you would lose a significant amount of xp and skills, which would ultimately mean you become weaker and have to regain your strength. So becoming a Master would be hard work if you aren't careful and the community would have a hand in controlling the proficiency levels of the Jedi population. A community could, if they put forth the effort, ensure that a Jedi never becomes a Knight, much less a Master.
My Jedi plan would ensure Jedi are not only rare, but their power controlled by the community. Therefore, a Jedi would almost have to stay invisible to the watchful eye to become a Master. My plan also provides content during the Jedi career path to ensure it is rewarding, however my plan also ensures there are risks and great consequences to becoming a Jedi. Customization would be covered under my plan, from robe/hilt color and look customization for Knights and Masters to color crystal color customization for Masters. In my system a FRS wouldn't be there, since there are no need for ranks above Master, since it trivializes the rank of Master and Knight. PvP would be its own reward and Jedi would have the pleasure of altering the Universe by helping take bases and cities, which would provide bonuses to xp and credits for that planet.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
Heck, the largest "organised" Star Wars fan group aint about jedi even...
The "it's all about teh jedi" came about the same time as Ep1 came around... Before that, it was all about the galaxy, smugglers, soldiers, bounty hunters, aliens and cute Twi'lek dancing girls...
How we swapped all that for "Jedi is all Star Wars is" is beyond my comprehension...
But then again, I'm a 501'st wannabe.. I'll get my armor one day
To become a Jedi, one should have had to locate a Jedi NPC that was in hiding (not Obi-wan or Yoda) and have them train them. That Jedi NPC would be the NPC that you go to for training, but you don't have to become a Jedi. You could for example just pick up some skills that make you better at your profession. For example, you could become a better and faster shot if you were a pistoleer.
Let's say you did want to become a Padawan after meeting this NPC Jedi. You would have to prove that you were pure in heart by completing some quests that prove you are a honorable and noble person. Once these quests are done, you would become a Padawan, receiving your Padawan Robes, a haircut (braid), and a training saber. As a Padawan, you would be given a string of quests that would teach you about the force and how Jedi use the force. During this time, your xp could be used to train in your basic force powers and lightsaber techniques. For example, Padawans would gain the ability to perform Force Push, Pull, Run, and other hallmark Novice abilities that Padawans would be able to perform. Once you complete these string of quests, which essentially test your bravery and teach you the ways of a Jedi, you would be given your Knight trials.
Your Knight trials would test the areas tested in the books and movies, including creating your own lightsaber. For example, to create your lightsaber, you would have to adventure for a lightsaber crystal, which would be hard to come by in the game and the color would be random. The metal workings and power source of the lightsaber would be craftable by different players (metal tubing, lens, etc.). During the actualy creation process, you would be able to choose a lightsaber style, with the exception of double-bladed lightsabers, since only experts could use these. Upon completion of the knight trials, you would be granted a Knights Robe, be allowed to grow your hair out, and have access to all force abilities for training under the Master level. As a Knight, you could be a jack of all trades, which means you would dabble in lightsaber skills, defensive force abilities, and offensive force abilities or you could specialize in any 1 of those and become an expert in it and good in another tree, but no skill in the last tree. Knights could create 1st -3rd Generation lightsabers, depending on their specialization path.
To become a Jedi Master, you'd have to go through the Master Trials, which are akin to the Knights Trial, except on a much harder level. There could be other requirements for becoming a Master aswell. Upon completion of the Master trials, you would be awarded a master robe and the ability to train your skills to master levels. Master Jedi that specialize in lightsaber combat would then be able to train in Double bladed or dual weilding sabers, while force masters would gain strong defensive and offensive force abilities. Masters will also have the ability to create a color crystal after their own name. They would be able to customize the color with the use of sliders and such for a unique look, but the crystals would have no stat enhancements. Master would be able to create 4th - 5th generation lightsabers, depending on their specialization path.
There would be no need for more ranks or an FRS system. Jedi would be a seperate faction and path could be created to "fall" from the lightside and become a Dark Jedi. Dark Jedi and Jedi would be at war with each other obviously, but there wouldn't be an FRS system.
Jedi and Dark Jedi would be rare due to the lotto system and gaining new skills in the system would take a while. So becoming a Padawan wouldn't take long, maybe a day of questing. It would take a month of hardcore play to become a Knight and a few months of hardcore play to become a Master.
Padawans just starting out would be slightly more powerful than a normal class, but beatable 1v1 if the normal class is skilled and the Padawan isn't. A trained Padawan of the verge of becoming a Knight would be able to take 2 normal classes on at the same time without much effort if they are good, but would lose if he is bad and the two normal classes are good. A Knight just starting out would be able to take on 3 normal classes at once and would progress up to 7 as they gain more skills or better proficiency in them. Masters starting out would be able to take on 7-10 normal classes depending on their skill levels.
The draw back to being a Jedi is that you would be constantly hunted if a person ever found out you were a Jedi and anyone could collect on that bounty, not just bounty hunters. If you are killed, you would lose a significant amount of xp and skills, which would ultimately mean you become weaker and have to regain your strength. So becoming a Master would be hard work if you aren't careful and the community would have a hand in controlling the proficiency levels of the Jedi population. A community could, if they put forth the effort, ensure that a Jedi never becomes a Knight, much less a Master.
My Jedi plan would ensure Jedi are not only rare, but their power controlled by the community. Therefore, a Jedi would almost have to stay invisible to the watchful eye to become a Master. My plan also provides content during the Jedi career path to ensure it is rewarding, however my plan also ensures there are risks and great consequences to becoming a Jedi. Customization would be covered under my plan, from robe/hilt color and look customization for Knights and Masters to color crystal color customization for Masters. In my system a FRS wouldn't be there, since there are no need for ranks above Master, since it trivializes the rank of Master and Knight. PvP would be its own reward and Jedi would have the pleasure of altering the Universe by helping take bases and cities, which would provide bonuses to xp and credits for that planet.
A problem I see with your unlock plan is that over time eventually every account would have a Jedi, I don't see how they would keep the Jedi rare with that unless it ended up being like 1 account a month. A lot of what you said was in place at one point... Jedi would lose xp for dying... anyone could hunt them... the advancement system you stated was fairly similar to what was in place too. Seems like being an old school Jedi was a lot more fun.All this Jedi talk makes me want to play a new game with in depth Jedi advancement
Heck, the largest "organised" Star Wars fan group aint about jedi even...
The "it's all about teh jedi" came about the same time as Ep1 came around... Before that, it was all about the galaxy, smugglers, soldiers, bounty hunters, aliens and cute Twi'lek dancing girls...
How we swapped all that for "Jedi is all Star Wars is" is beyond my comprehension...
But then again, I'm a 501'st wannabe.. I'll get my armor one day
I'm 27 years old and loved Star Wars long before EP1 ever came out. Even before EP1, I thought the Star Wars Universe was all about the fight between light and dark. I think a Star Wars without Jedi, just isn't Star Wars. Jedi and Sith lore were/are awesome and entertaining and many people could relate to either the Jedi or Sith philosophy, which made them even easier to get into.
So I disagree with your statement that the Jedi phenomena is a post EP1 thing. Maybe you should accept that people like Star Wars for different reasons and all are equally viable and none of those reasons necessarily have anything to do with age or the timing a person got into the Star Wars Universe.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
Well lets be realistic. How many people do you know that stick with the same MMORPG for more than 3-6 months? How long do you realistically expect a MMO to be up and running? People come and go and eventually a game gets shut down. So far, there hasn't been a norm for shutting down MMORPGs, but we know graphics engines get old and players just migrate eventually to newer games. With that said, I don't know why I said percentage, because I actually meant only 1-3 people per server got their accounts made Force Sensitive. You're right, using a percent would likely lead to a server mostly full of Jedi after 6 months. 1-3 or even 5 per month would be very rare.
One main difference I'd like to point out about my system and their old SWG Jedi system is that there would be no holo grinding to become a Force Sensitive. How to become a Jedi is actually very different than the old way. There are actually, only a few similarities between my system and the old SWG system. I think the old SWG system was utterly boring and unfun, not to mention inbalanced. The old system allowed anyone the ability to become a Jedi with enough time invested into the game. Since Jedi was an alpha class, this amounted to the majority of the player base going after Jedi and the slot that came with it.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
The setting of the game was supposed to be after the first death star was destroyed. Thus the empire was still strong but the Rebels were becoming a "power".
In that context NO Jedi don't fit. Simply because there shouldn't be armies of them running around as there was going to be in game. The only "known" Jedi were NPC's that we couldn't play.
No matter how the system was done at some point there would be a "lot" of Jedi.. and the timeframe is just wrong for that.
They should have done as was done with UO... it was the "Ultima" world. Yet it wasn't the same as the single player series.. they made sure even in the intro video.. that you knew it was an "alternate" time line.
They could have done that just to get around all the discussion of "omg that is so wrong.. it breaks cannon blah blah".
Or any other discussion related to it not follow some book or the movies.
(especially since Raph worked on UO and was... well aware.. as were others that had worked on UO and SWG).
Anyhow whitout any jedi as playable class , this game would have been way more sucsesfull nowdays, and had probbly a whole difrent development direction.
Playing: World of Warcraft.
Played: Lord of the Rings Online, Starwars Galaxies.
Tried: Starwars the Old Republic, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, Vanguard, Age of Conan, Aion.
Being a jedi is something that works extremely well in single player games and not well at all in an MMO.
Whether you approach it from an epic perspective or just from a Star Wars universe perspective, being a jedi means being "special". If most of the players around you are jedi, it means you're not - and they're not - so special after all. It just pisses on the concept of jedi as a perfect "hero's journey": The thing with Joseph Campbell's hero's journey is, what makes the hero special is not that he is an "original"; it's that he is the center of gravity in his own world, unique in his own journey.
So, if we cannot have that, it makes sense to give us the chance to be "original" so that we can feel special, no? It's obvious we won't feel special with just "being a jedi" when there are thousands of them around us in an MMO, but we can feel special by being our own unique creations. Not by power but by originality - because, in the end, power is relative and feeding a Mon Calamari Cruiser-full of it into everybody makes it trivial.
I would be very content with seeing jedi only as NPC "guest stars" in an MMO. That way it's such a nice surprise coming across them and so influencing to see the power they wield.
I think it's questionable about having the same success as it once did without the lure of playable Jedi. My memory is somewhat hazy, but from what I can remember about Shadows of the Empire is that it was a pretty cool game and I can't remember any Jedi in that so maybe it would have been just as successful.
If you can get past the idea that player Jedi aren't inherently special in SWG they are still somewhat fun to play... but a lot of other classes are too... So I guess now a days playing Jedi is just what someone makes of it. SWG is by no means the ultimate Jedi experience... that's what I'm hoping the Force Unleashed will be... speaking of which, anyone know anything about character progression in it?
I'm not going to go over them all, but let's think about the other professions that didn't belong in the timeline. Tera Kasi was an elite group of fighters am I right? There weren't many of them and I am not even sure there were some at the time line of the game, yet you have thousands of them running around flaunting their power. You also had Pikeman, who you rarely seen in any movie. A Fencer? Umm, yeah, you didn't see a Fencer in Star Wars either and why would you since everyone carries a blaster.
Let's face it, any profession outside of something that shoots a rifle, carbine, or pistol is really out of place in the Star Wars Universe. Medical stuff was handled by droids in this universe, not doctors and combat medics.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.