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Grouping in MMO's

2

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  • Perilous1Perilous1 Bloomfield, NMPosts: 52Member

    I can understand the disposition of asking, "Why play an MMO if you're prefer to solo?"

    The answer is that I thrive on competition. Its my primary reason for playing anything online. There is no genuine competition to be gained by grouping with others. Solo however, I can measure myself against others, both soloists and groupers. Even when I PvP I prefer to seek out a lone opponent and go one-on-one with them, strategically of course. I want to take out a critical Healer or Tank that will hurt the opposing team and give my team an advantage.

    I understand that you can solo to 60 in World of Warcraft but it's not an enjoyable experience for me, or for many others that I've talked with. You are often forced to grind mobs, sometimes for several levels before you can get to a new series of solo'able quests. I for one hate grinding, and I can't imagine anyone other than a power-leveler consumed with the race to level 60 that might actually enjoy it. Such players are less concerned with keeping their equipment up to date because they are often grinding mobs slightly below their level in order to minimize their downtime between fights.

    As I've already stated, WoW can be solo'd if you follow a narrow and rather sterile path to level 60 without many of the side-features that make it such a popular game.

  • FikrocFikroc San Angelo, TXPosts: 166Member

    So really it should be soloable gameply with grouping rewards. Its able to solo to max but much more beneficial if you group. Problem with WoW's grouping outside of raids was first I had to make sure we were on the same quest and then collect ones took double the time, half the xp from the mob and I quickly outgrew the level range of quests and only had red ones left. So I could group and fall behind my available quests and be forced to grind or start the inevitable grind early and catch up to my quest lines. DAoC still did it best for me. I could solo even or slightly lower mobs with minimal downtime if any, or could group and get a group xp bonus and blast through mobs. Quests were almost non existant though. Either way, it was nice.

  • It's pretty simple for me.  If grouping, such as raids in wow, is required for character/gear advancement, I simply won't play the MMO.  If, however, grouping and raids are included, but yet the solo player can get the same gear (albeit a much lower drop rate), then I'll play and will enjoy a fulfilling game experience.  I'll be able to solo when I want to, and group when I want to.

    Like the OP, I'm not against grouping.  I like to do small groups, medium groups, and even raids.  But the caveat is I like to group WHEN I WANT TO.  Not because the dev forces me to.  I'm not going to be so arrogant as to say that I know I'm in the majority and that most people want this system.  However, I know that I'm far from alone in this method of playstyle.

    There seems to be quite the constant theme in threads such as these.  Many players do not like forced group content.  It would be nice if devs recognized this and started developing games for this segment of the market.

  • FikrocFikroc San Angelo, TXPosts: 166Member

    Or change how grouping works all together. A form of  "autogroup" in a radius of an event. Or tricking solo players into fighting for a common goal of the game... like winning a war.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    God I hope WAR doesn't suck.

  • AsamofAsamof La Canada, CAPosts: 738Member Uncommon

    For me it really depends on what game. For WoW I usually detest grouping. For CoH/V, I wont play it unless I have a group.

  • HuntnHuntn Rosemount, MNPosts: 284Member


    Originally posted by Perilous1

    As I've already stated, WoW can be solo'd if you follow a narrow and rather sterile path to level 60 without many of the side-features that make it such a popular game.

    But it can be mostly solo'd. Is there another MMO out there with more opportunities to solo? I'm curious.

    -----------------------
    Past MMOs- Planetside, WoW.
    Current MMO:
    Current Games: L4D, Skyrim
    Tried- ATITD, EQ2, SoR, Vanguard,SL,LOTRO,SotNW,SWTOR.
    Anticipating- GW2, Planetside2

  • DanhildermanDanhilderman San Diego, CAPosts: 67Member

    AC1 allowed you to solo to level 126 (and now level 275).  It takes longer, but it isn't any different in terms of difficulty.

    The problem is that EQ based mmo's (including WoW) use a flawed (in my opinion, of course) method of advancement and combat. 

  • HuntnHuntn Rosemount, MNPosts: 284Member


    Originally posted by Danhilderman
    AC1 allowed you to solo to level 126 (and now level 275). It takes longer, but it isn't any different in terms of difficulty.
    The problem is that EQ based mmo's (including WoW) use a flawed (in my opinion, of course) method of advancement and combat.

    Asheron's Call? Dated but good if you don't mind throwing out a quick description... Thanks!

    -----------------------
    Past MMOs- Planetside, WoW.
    Current MMO:
    Current Games: L4D, Skyrim
    Tried- ATITD, EQ2, SoR, Vanguard,SL,LOTRO,SotNW,SWTOR.
    Anticipating- GW2, Planetside2

  • ArawonArawon Oz, ALPosts: 1,108Member

    I solo 95% of my gameplay. If the game is not solo friendly, I won't play.

  • OhaanOhaan Great White North, BCPosts: 566Member

    Originally posted by Arawon


    I solo 95% of my gameplay. If the game is not solo friendly, I won't play.
    Then why play MMOs?

    No seriously. What draws you to MMO's if you are that much of a solo player?

    - Is it that MMO's are generally larger in scope and less directional than single player RPGs?

    - Is 5% of the time that you do group is enjoyable enough to pay a monthly fee?

    - Or is it just having other real players around that maybe makes the environment seem more alive?

    Me wants to know

  • Perilous1Perilous1 Bloomfield, NMPosts: 52Member
    Originally posted by Ohaan


     
    Originally posted by Arawon


    I solo 95% of my gameplay. If the game is not solo friendly, I won't play.
    Then why play MMOs?

     

    No seriously. What draws you to MMO's if you are that much of a solo player?

    - Is it that MMO's are generally larger in scope and less directional than single player RPGs?

    - Is 5% of the time that you do group is enjoyable enough to pay a monthly fee?

    - Or is it just having other real players around that maybe makes the environment seem more alive?

    Me wants to know



    I for one have already answered this very question. For the competition both in progress and in PvP. The absolute bottom line of this thread is just because you play with others in this game or any game, you shouldn't have to group with them if you prefer not to.

  • OhaanOhaan Great White North, BCPosts: 566Member

     

    Originally posted by Perilous1

    Originally posted by Ohaan  Originally posted by Arawon


    I solo 95% of my gameplay. If the game is not solo friendly, I won't play.
    Then why play MMOs?

     No seriously. What draws you to MMO's if you are that much of a solo player?

    - Is it that MMO's are generally larger in scope and less directional than single player RPGs?

    - Is 5% of the time that you do group is enjoyable enough to pay a monthly fee?

    - Or is it just having other real players around that maybe makes the environment seem more alive?

    Me wants to know



    I for one have already answered this very question. For the competition both in progress and in PvP. 

    Is your name Arawon? 

     

    Yes I saw your reply. Maybe I wanted someone else's perspective.

    Ok, you like to be the leader in the 'keep up with the Jones' game. The one who has the most disposable time... Ok fair enough, weird, but fair enough.

    As for the PvP, you want a solo MMO but you want it to only have one-on-one PvP? Like duelling or deathmatch battlegrounds?

    Originally posted by Perilous1


    The absolute bottom line of this thread is just because you play with others in this game or any game, you shouldn't have to group with them if you prefer not to.

    The only thing absolute about that statement is that it is completely self-centered. You expect that devs should build every game to suit YOUR play style? Very considerate of you. The amount of grouping/teamwork that is required/encouraged in an MMO will also be dependent on its theme (ie. raid centric, PvP centric, etc.) So for MMO studios to meet your demands they would have to exclude alternate theme models.

    A more considerate request would be for the market to diversify to cater to different player types (PvE, PvP, solo, group, etc.).

  • Perilous1Perilous1 Bloomfield, NMPosts: 52Member

     

    Originally posted by Ohaan


     
    Originally posted by Perilous1




    I for one have already answered this very question. For the competition both in progress and in PvP. 

    Is your name Arawon? 

     

    Yes I saw your reply. Maybe I wanted someone else's perspective.

    Ok, you like to be the leader in the 'keep up with the Jones' game. The one who has the most disposable time... Ok fair enough, weird, but fair enough.

    As for the PvP, you want a solo MMO but you want it to only have one-on-one PvP? Like duelling or deathmatch battlegrounds?

    Originally posted by Perilous1


    The absolute bottom line of this thread is just because you play with others in this game or any game, you shouldn't have to group with them if you prefer not to.

    The only thing absolute about that statement is that it is completely self-centered. You expect that devs should build every game to suit YOUR play style? Very considerate of you. The amount of grouping/teamwork that is required/encouraged in an MMO will also be dependent on its theme (ie. raid centric, PvP centric, etc.) So for MMO studios to meet your demands they would have to exclude alternate theme models.

    A more considerate request would be for the market to diversify to cater to different player types (PvE, PvP, solo, group, etc.).

    LOL! This is hands down the most amusing response yet. Let me get this straight.. You get to question why someone that plays an online game might be opposed to grouping with other players, whilst you come to a public forum, jump into a public discussion and then get bent out of shape because you wanted a private correspondence with one person in the thread? Rather hypocritical, wouldn't you say?

     

    This thread was about various thoughts on this trend that is occuring. I am not requesting anything from Devs nor expecting Devs to alter their games based on my preferences. This thread is not about the Devs at all, it's about our opinions about the future of online gaming. Are you questioning our right to give opinions on that topic?

    In all honesty, your post smacks of quite a bit of ignorance about this thread. I didn't exclude any reply that Arawon might want to make to your question, but as I started this thread I like to make sure it stays on track. It seems clear you were just looking for an excuse to lash out as your comments are derogatory and dismissive of others opinions.

  • OhaanOhaan Great White North, BCPosts: 566Member
    Originally posted by Perilous1


     It seems clear you were just looking for an excuse to lash out as your comments are derogatory and dismissive of others opinions.

    Nope. I took your previous reply as a very snarky 'me! me! me!' response to my asking Arawon for his/her perspective. To boot you added that you declared that no MMO should require grouping, in a tone that was dismissive of others' opinions. If you are going to dish it be prepared to take it. 'nuff said.

  • Perilous1Perilous1 Bloomfield, NMPosts: 52Member

    Originally posted by Ohaan


    Nope. I took your previous reply as a very snarky 'me! me! me!' response to my asking Arawon for his/her perspective. To boot you added that you declared that no MMO should require grouping, in a tone that was dismissive of others' opinions. If you are going to dish it be prepared to take it. 'nuff said.

    So, you're just going to lie outright to attempt to prove some point? I never declared that no MMO should require grouping. I happen to think however that required grouping is on the rise in upcoming MMO's and I am not in favor of it. That is my opinion.

  • protorocprotoroc Fort Myers, FLPosts: 1,042Member

    I'll feed, sorry OP, if anything the trend has grown away from is forced grouping. You've obviously NEVER played FFXI, a game that would mercilessly beat your ass down with a mob that isnt even worth xp anymore.

    Sounds like you'd like Tabula Rasa....

  • Perilous1Perilous1 Bloomfield, NMPosts: 52Member

     

    Originally posted by protoroc


    I'll feed, sorry OP, if anything the trend has grown away from is forced grouping. You've obviously NEVER played FFXI, a game that would mercilessly beat your ass down with a mob that isnt even worth xp anymore.
    Sounds like you'd like Tabula Rasa....

     

    Well, I am now officially sorry I started this thread. Seriously, protoroc are you that dense? My opinion is based on up-fucking-coming releases. Is that clear enough for you now? Would anyone else like to point to a game that has been out for years and say "nuh-uh!"? Upcoming releases, say it with me.

  • chryseschryses LondonPosts: 1,453Member Uncommon

    The biggest problem with grouping is that it is too hard to get the group together.

    A system I would love would go something like this.

    * NPC raid hits a player town or area.  All players that are close would get an alarm showing on their screen.  They can read the details and if they want to participate they accept and they appear at the nearest bind.

    This system could also relate to NPC missions.  Imagine taking a mission when you get to the location you put an alarm out.  Players will have a choice to decline or accept based on the criteria of the mission and it will automatically warp you to the nearest bind again. 

    A kind of call to arms thing.

    People like me who work long hours play solo mostly because I can not afford 30 minutes standing around waiting for someone to turn up.  So if the game forces grouping I tend to stay clear.

     

  • ScriarScriar Milton keynesPosts: 772Member

    I like grouping in mmos, its why i play them. The problem is most of the time you spend waiting for group members, so games with forced grouping just put me off straight away.

    I prefer being able to solo means i can have something to do when no one is on to play with, I dont usually have a problem either btw in getting groups since i like playing healers, even in skill based games i would spec my character for support roles

  • HexxeityHexxeity Kansas City, MOPosts: 848Member

    It is not hard to find out how solo-friendly a game is before you buy it.  I have trouble mustering much sympathy for someone who gets into such a game and then whines about the "forced" grouping.

    But in general, I would say a balance is necessary.  Group play should always be preferable (i.e., more rewarding), but soloing should always be possible.

  •  

    Originally posted by Hexxeity


    It is not hard to find out how solo-friendly a game is before you buy it.  I have trouble mustering much sympathy for someone who gets into such a game and then whines about the "forced" grouping.

     

    I gotta disagree with you here.  The most shining example is WoW, which people who have played to end game know is not solo friendly.  Yet, the entire journey until end game can be done solo if so desired.

    On another note, I often wonder if when people refer to forced grouping they are referring to raids.  I think anyone who plays an MMO knows and expects that the entire game will not be soloable.  Given that, I wonder if people are really just voicing their frustration in regards to raids and forced raiding for end game advancement.  I certainly know that I'm referring to raids when I talk of forced grouping.

    Like I've said so many times before, it's not raids that are the problem.  The problem arrises when the best gear in the game is only accesible via raids. 

  • nomadiannomadian DevonPosts: 3,490Member

    Again I just wanted to reiterate that I believe this is a problem with both soloing and grouping in WoW.

    The majority of people solo to the end level in WoW(which makes it hard to find a group on the way up) then enter a forced grouping situation.

    Now, people are only grouping at the end-game because it is forced, likewise raiding. So, if there were a solo option at the end-game in WoW as I think there should be then I think there would be a problem with people grouping.

    I don't know what the answer is but I did suggest a solution on their forums which incented people to group if they had already done a quest. This ensured people that liked to group were rewarded for doing so making more people available to group.

  • HuntnHuntn Rosemount, MNPosts: 284Member


    Originally posted by chryses
    The biggest problem with grouping is that it is too hard to get the group together.
    A system I would love would go something like this.
    * NPC raid hits a player town or area. All players that are close would get an alarm showing on their screen. They can read the details and if they want to participate they accept and they appear at the nearest bind.
    This system could also relate to NPC missions. Imagine taking a mission when you get to the location you put an alarm out. Players will have a choice to decline or accept based on the criteria of the mission and it will automatically warp you to the nearest bind again.
    A kind of call to arms thing.
    People like me who work long hours play solo mostly because I can not afford 30 minutes standing around waiting for someone to turn up. So if the game forces grouping I tend to stay clear.

    I acknowledge that 30 min waits are not uncommon for 5 player groups, but when I was playing WoW I'd be doing soloable stuff until voice chat indicated that we had 5 members and they were all heading to the instance. Then I would break off and head that way.

    -----------------------
    Past MMOs- Planetside, WoW.
    Current MMO:
    Current Games: L4D, Skyrim
    Tried- ATITD, EQ2, SoR, Vanguard,SL,LOTRO,SotNW,SWTOR.
    Anticipating- GW2, Planetside2

  • SoraellionSoraellion zuidPosts: 557Member

    A few thoughts;

    - stating that the trend seems to be towards MORE grouping, is simply not true. As several other have stated the 'old'  MMO's were based on groupplay, several newer MMO's (amongst wich WOW) are very much geared to the solo player. Case in point; those videos of someone getting to 60 in 4 days, that person's advise; "don't group, don't do instances"... kinda says it all, doesn't it.

    - Stating that WOW is NOT a solo game simply because at max lvl there's some instances to somehow keep you occupied is kinda simplistic. 1-69 WOW is a solo game with the occasional grouping up. Besides; what's me drive at 70 to do instances.... you get better gear to uhm... do raids somewhat better, or to have better odds in the completely boring and meaningless PVP

    - stating that WOW is NOT a solo game because you need to get gear and cash to get a mount at 40 is just laughable... It's EASY to have over 500G at 40 with your first character on a server, and that character will have proper gear as well. Anyone who can't do that should fault himself and start figuring it out... don't blame the game.

    - grouping != raiding

    - if an MMO advocates grouping, then FINDING a group will be easier. In a predominantly solo game like WOW it's much more difficult to find groups BECAUSE EVERYONE IS SOLOING. Make grouping more worth it makes it easier to get groups.

    - what's the fricken point of playing online if all you do is solo

     

    Having said all that...

    To ME MMO's are about the teamwork, the social aspect and interaction, if I wanted to solo I'd play Morrowind. I play and have played a whole bunch of MMO's and atm I reactivated my WOW account. BECAUSE WOW is so solo friendly 1-69 the quality of the playerbase is beyond help it seems, it has by FAR the worst playerbase of all the MMO's I've played apart from Guildwars, but that is essentially not an MMO and is so bad for the exact same reasons as WOW, it's just 5 times worse.

    Having solo content is good, not all of us play for the social aspect, we're not always in the mood and we don't always have time to group up. To me, WOW has gone completely to the solo aspect of the game (again, 1-69). There are some MMO's out there that advocate groupeffort (EVE being the best example) but to ME there should be more.

     

     

     

     

     

  • hidd3nmarin3hidd3nmarin3 boise, IDPosts: 67Member

    Originally posted by chryses


    The biggest problem with grouping is that it is too hard to get the group together.
    A system I would love would go something like this.
    * NPC raid hits a player town or area.  All players that are close would get an alarm showing on their screen.  They can read the details and if they want to participate they accept and they appear at the nearest bind.
    This system could also relate to NPC missions.  Imagine taking a mission when you get to the location you put an alarm out.  Players will have a choice to decline or accept based on the criteria of the mission and it will automatically warp you to the nearest bind again. 
    A kind of call to arms thing.
    People like me who work long hours play solo mostly because I can not afford 30 minutes standing around waiting for someone to turn up.  So if the game forces grouping I tend to stay clear.
     
    Thats a really good idea, kindda like an auto group feature so you don't spend all damn day LFG. 

    You deserve a cookie!

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