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Originally posted by StevenTheRoc Originally posted by tinhat Wow, who would have thought there'd be so many replies! Anyway, ive been reading through and besides all the bitching i think i gathered some main points. Correct me if i'm wrong but i this is what i got...WoW will see a migration of PvP players to WAR because everyone knows world PvP in WoW is next to dead despite their efforts. Admittedly Hellfire Peninsula seems to see a lot of action.I think it's less likely we'll see PvE players move, who would? some people have clocked up over 100 days play time, made friends in their guild and worked hard to get where they are. As a PvE game WoW is good, grind is unavoidable in every MMO. To be honest, now that I've thought about it i dont think blizzard have too much to worry about. They have millions of players hooked on a game with 'good' lore, myself included as i was an addict since WC2. They can also 'promise' to bring out new content to keep players ticking over and paying their money, even if it doesnt quite meet expectations it would still take more than that to see lots of players leaving.I still hope WAR does really well and i think i will be playing it. I just think in order for it to succeed well it needs to come out polished and with some sort of free trial(?), anything and everything to get (WoW) players trying it. Oddly one of the big things for me is that i want a game that feels 'dirtier' or 'raw' with blood and guts and cutting limbs off in combat stuff - that just isn't WoW, with it's paper cut out cannons and buildings. Anyway, not sure how much longer this thread can last, so i'd just like to say i liked the comment about WoW designers catering for the asians by implementing more 'grind', as if that's what they look for in a game... or something
Yeah that asian thing is pretty racist considering that race has nothing to do with your prefrences, as if liking playing games with a grind is genetic.
That`s not racism it`s marketing ...wake up man the world is divided in 4 parts US /EU/Asia and the rest of the world and it`s applied to every single product on the planet if you know the culture of a continent you can sell them anything and FYI I do work in sales and marketing.
In the land of Predators,the lion does not fear the jackals...
The statement wasn't made about a country it was made about asians and there are many asians living in the west, south, north, and east.
Besides I think it's a little hypocritical claiming that asian countries like grinding when proportionaly more americans play grinding games compared to the total population.
just look at the internet penetration rate, more people use the internet proportionaly than in any other area of the world.
now look at asia
So you see that if you did a statistical analysis the probability of more people playing games online in this country proportionaly to other countries is much greater. It's comparing a 13 percent penetration rate to a 69 percent penetration rate. There is basicly no room there for any form of statistical error that would lead to the conclusion otherwise, but there still is a small small chance that I could be wrong.
Originally posted by bleyzwun WoW will definitely add more PvP shit (like that zone for the expansion) than before, if WAR does good. I don't see any of their PvP features doing well anyway. About 95% of the players in WoW only PvP for gear. It's going to be too hard to reverse the affect now. I understand why they added gear obtainable through PvP, and I'm glad they did. The problem is, that's what WoW is all about, gear... Nobody cares about fun anymore. I'm sure most people did at first... then they realized they're useless without good gear. Then they either quit , or go on a mission to get the best shit. Let's hope WAR is more about fun than gear.
Classes are not what they were originally, the classes are scewed up now in their pve roles. I really dislike it. Classes use to have more flavor.
Originally posted by qombi Originally posted by bleyzwun WoW will definitely add more PvP shit (like that zone for the expansion) than before, if WAR does good. I don't see any of their PvP features doing well anyway. About 95% of the players in WoW only PvP for gear. It's going to be too hard to reverse the affect now. I understand why they added gear obtainable through PvP, and I'm glad they did. The problem is, that's what WoW is all about, gear... Nobody cares about fun anymore. I'm sure most people did at first... then they realized they're useless without good gear. Then they either quit , or go on a mission to get the best shit. Let's hope WAR is more about fun than gear.
I think what you're trying to say is... wait... NERF WARLOCKS! amirite?
Originally posted by BobCrazyton Originally posted by Gameloading
Give me one reason, just one, why pvp players would actually leave WoW for WAR. Everquest subscribers didn't leave for DAOC, why would they for WAR?
Wait, what? If they're into PvP, why would they stay with a PvE game when there's a perfectly good (don't know that yet, but whatever) PvP game to play? Unless they're happy with WoW's PvP system (in which case, they're probably not "real" PvPers) and still enjoy raiding, I don't see any reason for them to stay with WoW.
And why didn't EQ subscribers leave for DAoC? Wait......they did! Not all of them, obviously, but there was probably more than a few.
Why would they move? Well asked simply, why would they? World of Warcraft's PVP isn't nearly as bad as some people would like you to believe. its fast paced, easy to get into and is accesible to hardcore and casuals alike.
I enjoy WoW's PvP far more than I ever enjoyed DAoC. I don't have to rely on a healer to PvP, I don't need a CC class, hell, I don't need anything.
My only complaint is that I wish we had more BG variety while leveling to 70, because at level 70, let's face it - the PvP just isn't that balanced.
What makes me laugh the most.. isn't the endless amount of threads about "what if"..
Rather that people who talk about a "great pvp game".. well I'd have to say they are thinking of DAoC from 3 or 4 years ago and haven't seen.. shall we say mythic expertise at rvr in the last 1 to 2 years.
I still play DAoC.. and I'm sorry to say but today's Mythic has no freakin clue. At least no more of a clue than the other company.
WAR may or may not be a great game... But they no longer can honestly talk about being "rvr experts" in regards to DAoC.
Anyway the OP asked us to basicly.. take a guess so here is mine:
WAR comes out... Either does well or better than predicted or falls on its face.
Regardless many hardcore DAoC players will stick with it.. as with EA's track record and how dead DAoC is now (relatively speaking) its time to jump ship before the old one sinks.
There may be people with fond memories that try it... looking to find old friends from DAoC they lost touch with.
A month or two later... Blizzard will announced they have reached the next 500,000 or 1,000,000 user mark.
EA won't report any spectacular earnings reports... and Vivendi will report how their revenue is up 90 something percent in the gaming division.. mostly due to something related to WoW.
In other words it won't change WoW at all...
But... about 5 years from now.. Mr. Mark will talk about how WAR beat WoW in every way possible including subscriber base.
That's just my predictions tho... (in reality hopefully WAR does very well as a game player... that's just what I'd want to see... but I don't see it doing a heck of a lot to WoW... if you could pull the subscriber base away from WoW... there would have been a US MMO with more than 450,000/500,000 subs.. before WoW...)
*edited for content* I decided to nerf the content because there was to much... in other words grammer was fixed and other errors were made to maintain balance.
I imagine that War will cause WoW to re-focus PvP back to the main storyline (instead of the irrelevant competitive arena fighting). I believe they erred in focusing so much time / effort into the small group (5 man or less) competitive arena play instead of improving upon the battlegrounds or encouraging world pvp (I guess they won't encourage world pvp as that runs counter to all those PvE servers). Either way I'll probably try Warhammer Online (for the darker more adult setting and a game that is built with PvP in mind, not as an after effect). We will have to see if it can live up to the hype.
Some players will migrate to other PVP games. No doubt about it. I used to play WOW and the PVP effects nothing. Thus my reason for not pvping anymore. PVE folks will not be going anywhere and that is Blizzard's meat and potatoes. They are very good at it and try to change the game to satisfy most players. The official forums really do not portray the player base.
Once the so called pvpers take a look at AOC's pvp, alot will not be moving as they do not want to loose their precious items and in AOC, there is a possibility of dropping items and coin. I will be trying it as PVP should be harsh and when you loose oh well. But the game will have to balance the loss vs reward other wise it will not be worth it. A player is not going to play if he or she looses an item and it takes weeks to get another.
WAR and AOC willl be for niche market in my opinion. WAR is looking more and more like a WOW clone. My hat is off to the AOC makers for doing something alot of folks will not play. True pvp folks will be there, not players who do not want the harsh reality AOC will provide when they loose.
WOW will continue to play with the PVP but, honestly PVP players are in a minority. Last market reseach stated 10%. Although it is three years old.
We've already seen how WAR and AoC are going to "change" WoW. Blizzard is rushing out an expansion with siege warfare and new character hairstyles to keep their 9 million subdued and away from the 2008 wave of MMORPGs. Blizzard has been promising siege warfare from the beginning, but decided to slap it onto an expansion that'll probably be released around the same time as two very promising PvP titles. I'm sure this is just a coincidence. Let's hope it's not as lackluster as the world PvP they threw in-game around the time of Naxx. Judging from BC and their humdrum "hero class" and upping the grind to 80, I wouldn't get my hopes up.
Originally posted by Gameloading Why would they move? Well asked simply, why would they? World of Warcraft's PVP isn't nearly as bad as some people would like you to believe. its fast paced, easy to get into and is accesible to hardcore and casuals alike.
Because it's a PvP game. If you're a PvPer, why would you play a game with sub-par PvP when you could get the real deal? It just doesn't make sense to keep playing WoW's, no purpouse (other than fun, of course, but you'll need more than just that to keep people playing) and shitty reward, PvP system.
I think many people from WOW and other games will atleast try WAR to see how it is but we don't know how good WAR will be. If WAR is just all hype then many will go back to their original games. If WAR is any good at all then maybe I can see WAR having a major impact. Hard to tell because WAR is like 4-5 months away.
Like a great many here I'll more than likely give WAR a try and see what it looks like but unless there is something that just reaches right and grabs me about the game I don't see any reason to make a permanent switch. I have a couple of 70's and a couple 60+ characters as well and I don't feel the need to grind up to that status on another game. WAR is going to have to offer something that people just can't do without to get them to switch and so far WAR hasn't demonstrated that to me yet.
It wont change wow at all.
As topic said, The comming of WAR, till WAR is fully functional, cured from baby illnes, and out of alfa, beta, cosed-beta, public beta, etc-etc... wow will have 10mil players, and third expansion. Comming have nothing to do with something that is allready here.
Same aapply's for all "cooming" mmo's
People, don't forget one thing, that many actualy dont know: Psychologist and human behaviour analysist (oh yes, there is a sucha department in blizzard's development team ) that have contributed for planetary wow sucess (8mil players are proof), are closely following and analysing upcomming mmo's, looking for possible weeknes in wow, if those games ever gone public, and more - looking for idea that could be "used" in next expasion or upcoming patches.
The only problem is that all those upcomming games, aside from delaying, have programers and publishers that are wrong in one fundamental thing - they are all trying somehow to compare their games with wow. Mistake.
Honestly? I don't think it will have the impact so many people expect it to. If people keep believing so strongly that WAR or AoC will break Blizzards Warcraft giant they are building expectations, and the hype they are creating will be their downfall.
For a game to set itself apart and to gain the recognition it needs to become popular it needs to LOOK apart. First impressions count to the average gamer, and so far, WAR does little to fix this problem. AoC however, has a beautiful, lush world. WAR at first glance looks like World of Warcraft.
But then if people become interested, they look at what the game actually does that is different. WAR has it's RvR which is spifflingly awesome, And AoC has its Siege Battles. Both sound rather similar, which is a problem to anyone interested in both games yet only wanting to purchase one.
World of Warcraft has gained so much momentum and built such a strong reputation people flock to it more and more everyday. Of course, the game isn't perfect. After playing it for 2 years I personally loathe its gameplay, yet many don't, and for those who are hoping to escape what WoW is, I feel they may be slightly let down by WAR. Varies from person to person, just don't get your hopes up and cling to the desire this game is the one that will make a difference. That's what will make it fail if you do.
Why would pve addicts folk to a pvp mmorpg?
Originally posted by Precusor Why would pve addicts folk to a pvp mmorpg?
A majority of World of Warcraft players ARE PvP players more than PvE. Perfecr reason for them to abandon the game for WAR or AoC. Or rather, perfect reason for WoW to combat these games and release an expansion that they hope to combat these two upcoming titles. Rather badly I might add.
Been into AV/AB/WSG lately? 50% of the players are all afk botters
Originally posted by Precusor Been into AV/AB/WSG lately? 50% of the players are all afk botters rofl
And that means what? All I can gather from that is that people have resorted to exploiting the games mechanics because of the repetitive grind the game forces upon you. More and more reason to leave for another PvP oriented game.
Originally posted by Recant Competition is always a good thing. And WoW doesn't really have any serious competition at the moment, and despite what some may claim, WAR will be aiming to attract WoW players - especially the burned out ones, looking for something similar but new.If WAR is released polished, and is fun, and delivers even half of what is promised, I think that'll force Blizzard to take their heads out of their huge piles of money and make big improvements to WoW in response to impressive competition. Blizzard improve their products, Warcraft 2 was a huge improvement on 1, and likewise for 3. Even though a lot of the elements they used to improve these games weren't invented by them, they've done them so well that noone seems to mind.Or like most over-hyped MMOs WAR will fall flat on it's face and join the likes of Dark and Light, DNDO, LOTRO, Vanguard and hardly anyone will notice or care.I can't help but being cynical because this is yet another hyped MMO. I don't care for hype anymore, until it's out on the shelves all pre-release games are equal in my eyes - there's just been far too many disappointments.And besides, WoW is more than good enough for now.
In regards to the overhyped thing, it will be -- no doubt in my mind its going to be exactly what you said, itll come out with a blast and people will download it, a lot of registered acounts but itll turn into an all pvp game where very few will dominate and will die out like the rest, or even worse itll become the next "Soul of the Ultimate Nation" with its release date bumping back every 5 minutes, because the creators need to update and by that time no one will even want to play, im really dissapointed in games today, games like 2moons and rakion who's main goal was to increase the use of pvp where as they completley died out on the PvE, well if no one wants to grind because of the crappy pve then the pvp wont be good because no one who gets high will have an opponent, think about your game before you bring it out, seriously -- pretty colors can only get you so far, the best game in the world is WoW because it has all the pretty colors with all the options that runescape brings to the table, im just praying that SuN or WaR come out on their expected dates because i quit WoW and im bored of RYL2...
I don't think Warhammer Online will have any great effect on World of Warcraft.
If people like WoW, they will stay there and play it.
On the other hand, if some WoW players would like to experience RvR, then switching from WoW to WAR might feel very comfortable, especially if players have ever wanted to raid, pillage, burn and sack the enemy capital cities.
In WoW ... you can't.
In WAR .. you can!
I believe it has already greatly impacted WoW, and will continue to do so. This means good things for the players of WoW. I think the increase in leveling speed between the levels of 20-60 is a big example. Obviously this is meant to help retain players who are bored with end game or just want to level alts with out having to develop new content. Given how dramatic this change is, it seems to have come up suddenly. Now I wonder why that is?The shift from PvE to PvP being a major accessible end game option is another. Now this is probably more due to the fact that it truly was raid-or-die before BC, and that the raiders had a distinct advantage over average PvPers. I speak as a former raider that PvPed during that time. However, I am willing to bet that WAR had some part in this as well. The change from PvE to PvP being a central focus was dramatic with the seasonal gear and arena.I wonder about the addition of in game voice chat as well. Now that is something that WoW will have that WAR doesn't as far as I know. Could be that its inclusion was just for that purpose.
___________________Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
Originally posted by BobCrazyton Originally posted by Gameloading Why would they move? Well asked simply, why would they? World of Warcraft's PVP isn't nearly as bad as some people would like you to believe. its fast paced, easy to get into and is accesible to hardcore and casuals alike.
Again, just because you think its sub-par does not mean other people think its sub - par.
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by BobCrazyton Originally posted by Gameloading Why would they move? Well asked simply, why would they? World of Warcraft's PVP isn't nearly as bad as some people would like you to believe. its fast paced, easy to get into and is accesible to hardcore and casuals alike.
No but with a 9mil playerbase... there's a big chance quite a few do. If there's one spot WoW fails imo its PvP. It's not that it sucks but compared to rest of the game, they could do much more with it. Expectations are pretty high after all. Coming expansion is a step in the right direction, and this is obviously a direct response to upcoming games such as AoC and (more so) WAR.
Millions wont leave ofc, but I can see a couple hundred thousand leaving tbh, I think most of WARs playerbase will be ex WoWers... and it's a fair guess Mythic wants a bite at the WoWcake. With the look and UI and gameplay being somewhat similar, there's no reason why ppl wouldnt play both games ofc.
If WAR was to reach 1mil+ subs that would be a succes. If it really takes off in Asia it could even be a great succes but I doubt that'll happen tbh... cant see WAR making it big over there for some reason