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Horizons: Special Report: The EI Catastrophe

24

Comments

  • GorukhaGorukha WarsawPosts: 1,441Member

    Originally posted by Zorvan
    Originally posted by Gonodil
    Originally posted by Zorvan  WHAT advertising revenue?!? Do you see one single ad from SOE here? If you do, please point it out.
    There was an ad for EQ recently, and there was one before for an EQ2 expansion i beleive.
     

    Ok, I'll grant you that. But compared to games that are advertised here for months at a time? The fact is SOE doesn't advertise here even a third as much as the rest of the games with ads here. And I doubt SOE pays more for their ads than anyone else. So the idea that MMORPG.COM is afraid of losing ad revenue still fails.


       Thats why majority of mmorpg.com praise goes to the constant avdertisers like EvE and Guild Wars.


    It's better be hated for who you are, than loved for who you aren't.
    image

  • MenkureMenkure Des Moines, IAPosts: 30Member

    In continuation of this Public Relations nightmare, Dr. Raymond C. Rask, President & CTO of EI Interactive responded on August 10th in a forum post that was subsequently deleted but copied and pasted in other forums, informing players that the former method of accepting payments would once again enabled and alleged that uncooperative Tulga employees were delaying the process. 


    I was actually the person that posted the post in question. 

    I had called Pay-By-Touch after the public announcement was made by EI after the unsecured billing server was taken offline (The one where they stated they were rolling out "Phase 1" of their new billing system..  as if the unsecured server was never brought online).  Anyway, Pay-By-Touch explained that the "Horizons Merchant Account" was closed.. and apparently there was a memo sent to the CSRs there to give a very basic response stating they had nothing to do with EI or Horizons.

    I posted about this to the community site, and asked what was going on.  Dr. Rask responded, blaming a lot of things on Tulga. 

    The reason why the post was deleted without any notice was that Dr. Rask made very libelous statements regarding Tulga and their involvement in the sale.  When I brought up the issue that the unsecured billing servers violated several state commerce laws protecting consumer financial data, and prevent identity theft.. Dr. Rask consulted legal counsel.  The lawyer on retainer for EI looked over the thread, and explained to Dr. Rask that his post was indeed -very- libelous, and recommended he post an apology and a "retraction" of his earlier comments.

    Dr. Rask deleted the post instead.



    Also, the date that Nagafen was introduced to the community and communication improved..  a lot happened that day.  They also posted the email addresses for people to email to cancel their subscriptions..  they also announced Dyn and Amadan joining the EI team to work on Horizons.

    It just happened that that was the day EI received a certified letter, from the Montana Attorney Generals Office..  Very formal, but very blunt and to the point..   Shape up or ship out.

    That is the -ONLY- reason EI decided to get their rears in gear, and why everything all seemed to happen that day.

    Coincidentially, myself and several others were banned from the community site..  I was, mainly because I was the first person to bring it to the attention of the AG office, and had been keeping them informed about EI.  I was also very vocal on other sites and forums, informing other players who were being billed without consent, and no way to cancel, who to get a hold of at the AG offices.  And also, my private inbox on the community site had several PMs from Dr Rask and others, including a copy of the "libelous" post  (Dr. Rask CCed me the post to my private message inbox).  So by banning my account, they effectively removed any access I had to those PMs  (It did NOT prevent me from saving them, and print out hardcopies)



    Overall, it was not something I -wanted- to do.  I don't like drama..  but I could not sit around and watch people get financially hurt because of the ineptitude and incompetence of a few 'wannabe game developers'.  One person, who lives in Australia.. was billed 14 times, for 1 account.. in under 2 weeks time.  He was hit with overdraft fees for a good 10 of those, and had to close his account to get them to stop.  EI refunded him the money they took, but not the overdraft fees.

    So.. I did the morally right thing and alerted the authorities, and in turn EI started to improve.  There is at least somebody from EI now talking to the community, and now that the billing is being handled again by PBT, customers now have a 1-800 number they can call to cancel.

    All that comes at a cost.  I am not able to get in contact with any of my friends, or be a part of the community that I once called 'home' for over 2 1/2 years.  I've lost a lot of friends - not cause they don't like me for what I did, but because they don't know what happened or how to get ahold of me, and I can't get a hold of them.

    It's sad that you can still be punished for doing the right thing...


    I am very glad for this article..  Very concise, and true to the history of the last couple of months since the sale.  There are a few minor things, such as the unsecure data being 'legal'..  which is not so in 14 states, including Montana and California, which have very strict "Identity Theft Prevention" laws on the books.  But since that entails pretty deep knowledge about commerce laws to know what is considered legal and what isn't by the states, it's perfectly understandable for that to be an oversight.

    People have made claims that EI has been trying to cover up their mistakes by rewriting history.  The blantant denial by Mr. Andercheck that the unsecured billing server didn't put anyone's financial or personal data at risk, gives quite a bit of credence to such claims.

    It is my hope, that with articles like this, future and prospective players will not get double and triple billed like others have before.  Hopefully, the information in an article like this may help them get their issues resolved in their favor..

    And also, I hope the rest of the MMO community is watching this..  ESPECIALLY developers and would-be developers.  EI has, the past 3 months, been a SHINING EXAMPLE of what -NOT- to do, when dealing with a community, such as the one that once played Horizons.

    -Menkure


  • martinj63martinj63 Saint Albans, VTPosts: 83Member



    Originally posted by Menkure


    People have made claims that EI has been trying to cover up their mistakes by rewriting history.  The blantant denial by Mr. Andercheck that the unsecured billing server didn't put anyone's financial or personal data at risk, gives quite a bit of credence to such claims.

    -Menkure



    Exactly and right now we have a couple Bowmanites and EI employees, doing damage control wherever they see this story being reported. Their pattern is a simple one. It is the same tactics Bowman used five months after the launch of Horizons when he finally crawled out from hiding under his desk after the single worst launch in MMORPG history.



    • Deny the existence of employees that speaks out against them


    • Blame the Fans


    • Claim that Bowman had no knowledge until it was 'too late"


    • Tell people that “its complicated” and they wouldn’t understand.

    I'm sorry they dealt you such a crappy hand Mekure, but I am glad that you helped to get the Attorney General involved, because what has transpired is criminal.

     What needs to happen here is the indictment of Rask, Andercheck and Bowman they are equally as guilty and the have cost fans thousands of dollars.  Just look at one example; one fan had 14 non -reimbursed overdraft fees 14 x over draft fees of 25 dollars is 350.00, 350.00 for a lame ass game that has never been functional  and has amounted to a paid Alpha test. An example needs to be made here so other game developers stop and take notice of the consequences of lying and over hyping your product, the example must be a swift, and harsh action that ends with three con-men sitting in a prison cell.

  • WSIMikeWSIMike Catskill, NYPosts: 5,564Member

    You know...

    This is one situation where, I think, SOE taking over could actually be an *improvement* to a game.

    Though if they did, the first things they'd do:

    - redo the entire battle system (it seems to be their favorite thing to do)
    - Making leveling faster
    - Removing the sub-classing and class-changing
    - Making finding and completing quests trivial
    - Dumb down the crafting
    - Do whatever else they could to make it more like WoW

    Oh wait.. actually I'm describing what they did to EQ2... My bad.

    Seriously though...  I think even SOE would be smart enough to stay the hell away from that rolling trainwreck.

    I think Horizons needs to just... die. Seriously. Hasn't it been through enough? Just let it go... let it fade into history. I don't say this as a knock against Horizons because I actually played it for a time and thought it had alot of potential; I loved the crafting system. But seriously, this game has been on failing life-support for some time now, and people just don't want to pull the plug.




    "If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road,
    and the cash shop selling asphalt..."
    - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops

    image

  • martinj63martinj63 Saint Albans, VTPosts: 83Member



    Originally posted by Gorukha

     
       Thats why majority of mmorpg.com praise goes to the constant avdertisers like EvE and Guild Wars.



     

    Yeah..it has nothing to do with the fact that both games has thousands of fans and a continually growing fan base. If GW continues to grow at its current rate it will catch up with the beloved WoW estimated 1.5-million subscriber base by Next summer.(1.5 million American subs that as been confirmed.... The nebulouse 7 mil Blizzard touts is Worldwide..... and has never once been confirmed by an impartial third party)  Over half a million people currently play GW, and Nightfall was the most pre ordered game at gamestop in Sept  (BC was a distant fourth) 

     EvE  has been bringing in so many new players that CCP is having to deal with issues of how many people can one system hold?  Given the size of a single system that is an enviable problem to have.

    One would think that those are as valid reasons for praise than the pittance of revenue this sight might receive.


    Yeah..it has nothing to do with the fact that both games has thousands of fans and a continually growing fan base. If

  • snickelsnickel Frankfurt am MainPosts: 41Member
    Rarely have I seen a change of ownership in a game accompanied by so much emotion.

    There were mistakes that TULGA made and there were mistakes that EII already has made. Of course.

    But where is this game now? It is still alive. It is still fun to play. The European players who have had a rough deal with GN shall get a chance to move to a new US shard that will be created for them. This game might just have a future after all.

    Unless enough people shall be convinced otherwise thus leading to a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    I cannot help but wonder at the motivation behind some of the hate-posts about the new owners -- to me it seems like the reaction of a rejected lover who wishes to destroy what he cannot have.












  • martinj63martinj63 Saint Albans, VTPosts: 83Member

    Oh please, Emo much?

    People were lied to and  they were defrauded, and neither Tulga nor EI has made compensation. That my friend is illegal it is unethical and those that perpetrated it should pay with their money and freedom. And from the looks of things they will.




    Originally posted by snickel
    Rarely have I seen a change of ownership in a game accompanied by so much emotion.

    There were mistakes that TULGA made and there were mistakes that EII already has made. Of course.

    But where is this game now? It is still alive. It is still fun to play. The European players who have had a rough deal with GN shall get a chance to move to a new US shard that will be created for them. This game might just have a future after all.

    Unless enough people shall be convinced otherwise thus leading to a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    I cannot help but wonder at the motivation behind some of the hate-posts about the new owners -- to me it seems like the reaction of a rejected lover who wishes to destroy what he cannot have.












  • andylandyl buhl, IDPosts: 27Member

    Lmao, so all 15 subscribers got a messed up billing system?

    Big whoop, thats what you get for playing this crap game.

  • GorukhaGorukha WarsawPosts: 1,441Member

    Originally posted by martinj63

    Originally posted by Gorukha
     
       Thats why majority of mmorpg.com praise goes to the constant avdertisers like EvE and Guild Wars.


     

    Yeah..it has nothing to do with the fact that both games has thousands of fans and a continually growing fan base. If GW continues to grow at its current rate it will catch up with the beloved WoW estimated 1.5-million subscriber base by Next summer.(1.5 million American subs that as been confirmed.... The nebulouse 7 mil Blizzard touts is Worldwide..... and has never once been confirmed by an impartial third party)  Over half a million people currently play GW, and Nightfall was the most pre ordered game at gamestop in Sept  (BC was a distant fourth) 

     EvE  has been bringing in so many new players that CCP is having to deal with issues of how many people can one system hold?  Given the size of a single system that is an enviable problem to have.

    One would think that those are as valid reasons for praise than the pittance of revenue this sight might receive.

    Yeah..it has nothing to do with the fact that both games has thousands of fans and a continually growing fan base. If


       GW is growing ? What is your proof ?

       Since when are sales figures supposed to mirror game reviews ? Get high much ?  Any game could hold 30 thousand players in a world thats 99.99 % empty space.  Any game could do it if they wanted to. Let's give a medal for cramming people in a booth.

      


    It's better be hated for who you are, than loved for who you aren't.
    image

  • NullapaxNullapax HalifaxPosts: 401Member
    Excellent article, and quite scary to be honest. image

    Roll on part two image



  • martinj63martinj63 Saint Albans, VTPosts: 83Member



    Originally posted by Gorukha

     
       GW is growing ? What is your proof ?

       Since when are sales figures supposed to mirror game reviews ? Get high much ?  Any game could hold 30 thousand players in a world thats 99.99 % empty space.  Any game could do it if they wanted to. Let's give a medal for cramming people in a booth.

      


    Wow you are completely clueless aren't you?   image  Can you prove to me they're not? No you can’t, but since you insist on being an Asshat here are some facts;  GW has had to expand its district base four times since factions launched , the sales demand is still such that Arena can still charge initial  SMRP, and both prophecies and Factions is on the auto restock list of EB, and Gamestop. The only other MMORPG that is happening with that isn't an initial release is WoW. 

     

    But beyond that; drop in to GW on any night and you will see 70 to 80 active districts each district holds about as many as a WoW server, and unlike WoW you won't log in to find  the server that just opened  is now deserted because The developer is doing anything to cater to the ever dwindling  user base.

     

    Now, I am no GW fan fantasy MMOs aren’t my cup of tea, I play because a couple members of my family is into it, anywho  GW is doing way better than most folks think, if not Arena would have dropped the Twice a year expansion scenario.

     

    Now on to EvE little man..  I would suggest that you buy a clue about game design and server load management before talking out of your ass.  EvE Client server architecture is far from a phone booth, making that correlation is akin to calling deep blue a calculator; and once again shows that you have zero clue about game design in general and MMORPG design in particular, in fact a game like EvE takes way more resources and cohesive topology than a game like EQ or yes even WoW simply because you are dealing with  a 3d Environment that doesn’t  have the limitations of Newtonian physics, further at any given time there are over 300k call commands from various databases per ship, that’s per ship Skippy, the average MMO might have 350 per toon. Of course I don’t expect you to grock that, just stick with the phone booth theory….that way your brain won’t hurt.
  • GorukhaGorukha WarsawPosts: 1,441Member
      Yeah you might be right about GW, although I'm not entirely sold on their stellar sucess yet, since I can't find much
    info on their running costs and developing budget, casue as you said I'm a little man with little brain.

       As far as the technological side of EvE, I made the comparison because as you see in the reviews, technology isn't exactly one of the criteria .  Games fun and playability isnt judged on how many people can play on one server.  That's something for tech-geeks to drool over not the average gamer sorry.

       EvE has many fans, and I could understand why someone would give it an OK score. However the scores it recieves in many instances, as on this website, really go against reason. Game is hard to get into, it is very slow paced, alot of downtime, months to become competetive in the pvp aspect of it.  These are all arguemnts against the good scores this game recieves.  One more reason not to trust reviews of this site and many others.  EvE constantly advertising on this site and the unimaginably good scores ti recieves doesnt exactly fill me with trust.

     



    It's better be hated for who you are, than loved for who you aren't.
    image

  • CracMonkiCracMonki Lafayette, LAPosts: 22Member



    Originally posted by Gorukha
      Yeah you might be right about GW, although I'm not entirely sold on their stellar sucess yet, since I can't find much
    info on their running costs and developing budget, casue as you said I'm a little man with little brain.

       As far as the technological side of EvE, I made the comparison because as you see in the reviews, technology isn't exactly one of the criteria .  Games fun and playability isnt judged on how many people can play on one server.  That's something for tech-geeks to drool over not the average gamer sorry.

       EvE has many fans, and I could understand why someone would give it an OK score. However the scores it recieves in many instances, as on this website, really go against reason. Game is hard to get into, it is very slow paced, alot of downtime, months to become competetive in the pvp aspect of it.  These are all arguemnts against the good scores this game recieves.  One more reason not to trust reviews of this site and many others.  EvE constantly advertising on this site and the unimaginably good scores ti recieves doesnt exactly fill me with trust.

     



    sorry... but EvE is a great game.. one of the best space games i've played.. and an awesome MMO..

    Game isn't really all that hard to get into... plus i think the learning curve is one of the good ways to smooth out the player base.. anyways.. I never see large amount of downtime.. but i don't try to play 24/7. Also any good MMO should takes months to become competetive in PvP. Thats one of the strong points. And as for as being slow paced not really... you can get out there and go pirate hunting and PVE the hell outa that game from start..

    now i do have to say that some the jumps take forever.. but thats just managment.. i've been able to keep my jumps to just a few hops..

    I beleave that all the stuff you talkeb about is what people like about EVE..

    The fact that it takes a little learning to get into it.. (not a WoW system where even the brain dead can play)

    shit and it has some of the best player run owned and controled game space in any MMO. as a player corp (aka guild) you can take over intired sectors of space.

    and many other things.. i can go one for hours about this.. hell just the tweaking of ships and how you combat things.. i myself like the stealth and distroy way...

     

    as for as server issues and expanding them.. Hell you tell me any other MMO that supports 100's if not a 1000 people fighting in large battles.. i've been in space battles that have had 100's of people going at it for control over a sector that has great resources.. sorry but no other MMo offers this type of gameplay.. and that right there is what gives EVE it's high scores..

     

    anyway thats my rant.

  • GorukhaGorukha WarsawPosts: 1,441Member

    Originally posted by CracMonki
    Originally posted by Gorukha
      Yeah you might be right about GW, although I'm not entirely sold on their stellar sucess yet, since I can't find much
    info on their running costs and developing budget, casue as you said I'm a little man with little brain.

       As far as the technological side of EvE, I made the comparison because as you see in the reviews, technology isn't exactly one of the criteria .  Games fun and playability isnt judged on how many people can play on one server.  That's something for tech-geeks to drool over not the average gamer sorry.

       EvE has many fans, and I could understand why someone would give it an OK score. However the scores it recieves in many instances, as on this website, really go against reason. Game is hard to get into, it is very slow paced, alot of downtime, months to become competetive in the pvp aspect of it.  These are all arguemnts against the good scores this game recieves.  One more reason not to trust reviews of this site and many others.  EvE constantly advertising on this site and the unimaginably good scores ti recieves doesnt exactly fill me with trust.

     

    sorry... but EvE is a great game.. one of the best space games i've played.. and an awesome MMO..

    Game isn't really all that hard to get into... plus i think the learning curve is one of the good ways to smooth out the player base.. anyways.. I never see large amount of downtime.. but i don't try to play 24/7. Also any good MMO should takes months to become competetive in PvP. Thats one of the strong points. And as for as being slow paced not really... you can get out there and go pirate hunting and PVE the hell outa that game from start..

    now i do have to say that some the jumps take forever.. but thats just managment.. i've been able to keep my jumps to just a few hops..

    I beleave that all the stuff you talkeb about is what people like about EVE..

    The fact that it takes a little learning to get into it.. (not a WoW system where even the brain dead can play)

    shit and it has some of the best player run owned and controled game space in any MMO. as a player corp (aka guild) you can take over intired sectors of space.

    and many other things.. i can go one for hours about this.. hell just the tweaking of ships and how you combat things.. i myself like the stealth and distroy way...

     

    as for as server issues and expanding them.. Hell you tell me any other MMO that supports 100's if not a 1000 people fighting in large battles.. i've been in space battles that have had 100's of people going at it for control over a sector that has great resources.. sorry but no other MMo offers this type of gameplay.. and that right there is what gives EVE it's high scores..

     

    anyway thats my rant.


       Yah, I like when people are unable to even say anything bad about their game. Fanbois ftl.  No game is perfect and Eve definetly isnt as good as the ratings it gets/reviews.  Maybe its because many reviews are done by people who are addicted to that particualr game and cant form a balanced review, which I have seen forever in many publications and online magazines.  Not a good idea to let a crack-head do a balanced review on drugs.

      


    It's better be hated for who you are, than loved for who you aren't.
    image

  • snickelsnickel Frankfurt am MainPosts: 41Member

    Originally posted by martinj63
    Oh please, Emo much? People were lied to and  they were defrauded, and neither Tulga nor EI has made compensation. That my friend is illegal it is unethical and those that perpetrated it should pay with their money and freedom. And from the looks of things they will. Originally posted by snickel
    Rarely have I seen a change of ownership in a game accompanied by so much emotion.

    There were mistakes that TULGA made and there were mistakes that EII already has made. Of course.

    But where is this game now? It is still alive. It is still fun to play. The European players who have had a rough deal with GN shall get a chance to move to a new US shard that will be created for them. This game might just have a future after all.

    Unless enough people shall be convinced otherwise thus leading to a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    I cannot help but wonder at the motivation behind some of the hate-posts about the new owners -- to me it seems like the reaction of a rejected lover who wishes to destroy what he cannot have.









    I did not refer to your friend, martinj63. I meant the former Tulga employees and their friends who do their very best to harm the game. I have great respect for the work they did for the game while they still were in charge, but I feel they have gone out of their way and still do so to make sure that a game that they aren't involved in any more will fail.





  • FinfidFinfid Santa Rosa, CAPosts: 14Member
    An interesting article I suppose, although Ms. Koh could use some more training in the use of english grammer and formating.


  • ShadrakShadrak Hometown, ALPosts: 375Member



    Originally posted by snickel



    I did not refer to your friend, martinj63. I meant the former Tulga employees and their friends who do their very best to harm the game. I have great respect for the work they did for the game while they still were in charge, but I feel they have gone out of their way and still do so to make sure that a game that they aren't involved in any more will fail.








    they dont have to do a thing. the game and EI are doing a fine job of advancing Horizons failure.
  • graillgraill erty, MOPosts: 257Member

    This is not surprising to see, before i was deployed to iraq i cancelled my subscription. (david bowmen, year one timeframe) upon returning a year later i found i had been charged every month during that year. sending emails to tulga did nothing, they shuffled me to IPAY and IBILL but after 3 months of ping pong customer service they referenced my case BACK to tulga/horizons. the next email i recieved, as mine was as colorful as i could make it, was from tulga, stating i had never cancelled and that they have as of this time cancelled my account as requested. the billing sites blaming the other one for the foul up, then turning on tulga for the scapegoat.

    well i looked at the email and thought to my self, self, i didnt ask to cancel, i asked for a years refund, any letters sent to me indicated i had "just" then cancelled. sending the cancellation email from way back then never got any response from tulga.  imagine that.

    folks playing horizons back then will remember double/triple monthly billing, failed cancellations, failed customer support between ipay, ibill and tulga, it was quite the fiasco on the boards, many of the posts on the fraudulant billing deleted as fast as they got put on.

    i since then (years later) settled with tulga and received 3/4 of my stolen money back. this note is to let folks know i am seeing the same thing happen, dont be fooled, bowman (in his consultant capacity) and tulga are in my eyes thieves not willing to help anyone but themselves.  what this new company will do is anyones guess.

    just a heads up and warning on horizons.image

     

    can you smell that?!!...............there is nothing quite like it.....................the smell of troll in the morning............i love that smell.

  • WSIMikeWSIMike Catskill, NYPosts: 5,564Member

    Originally posted by Gorukha
    Originally posted by CracMonki
    Originally posted by Gorukha
      Yeah you might be right about GW, although I'm not entirely sold on their stellar sucess yet, since I can't find much
    info on their running costs and developing budget, casue as you said I'm a little man with little brain.

       As far as the technological side of EvE, I made the comparison because as you see in the reviews, technology isn't exactly one of the criteria .  Games fun and playability isnt judged on how many people can play on one server.  That's something for tech-geeks to drool over not the average gamer sorry.

       EvE has many fans, and I could understand why someone would give it an OK score. However the scores it recieves in many instances, as on this website, really go against reason. Game is hard to get into, it is very slow paced, alot of downtime, months to become competetive in the pvp aspect of it.  These are all arguemnts against the good scores this game recieves.  One more reason not to trust reviews of this site and many others.  EvE constantly advertising on this site and the unimaginably good scores ti recieves doesnt exactly fill me with trust.

     

    sorry... but EvE is a great game.. one of the best space games i've played.. and an awesome MMO..

    Game isn't really all that hard to get into... plus i think the learning curve is one of the good ways to smooth out the player base.. anyways.. I never see large amount of downtime.. but i don't try to play 24/7. Also any good MMO should takes months to become competetive in PvP. Thats one of the strong points. And as for as being slow paced not really... you can get out there and go pirate hunting and PVE the hell outa that game from start..

    now i do have to say that some the jumps take forever.. but thats just managment.. i've been able to keep my jumps to just a few hops..

    I beleave that all the stuff you talkeb about is what people like about EVE..

    The fact that it takes a little learning to get into it.. (not a WoW system where even the brain dead can play)

    shit and it has some of the best player run owned and controled game space in any MMO. as a player corp (aka guild) you can take over intired sectors of space.

    and many other things.. i can go one for hours about this.. hell just the tweaking of ships and how you combat things.. i myself like the stealth and distroy way...

     

    as for as server issues and expanding them.. Hell you tell me any other MMO that supports 100's if not a 1000 people fighting in large battles.. i've been in space battles that have had 100's of people going at it for control over a sector that has great resources.. sorry but no other MMo offers this type of gameplay.. and that right there is what gives EVE it's high scores..

     

    anyway thats my rant.


       Yah, I like when people are unable to even say anything bad about their game. Fanbois ftl.  No game is perfect and Eve definetly isnt as good as the ratings it gets/reviews.  Maybe its because many reviews are done by people who are addicted to that particualr game and cant form a balanced review, which I have seen forever in many publications and online magazines.  Not a good idea to let a crack-head do a balanced review on drugs.

      

    lol...

    dude.. you ever heard of the word "subjective'?  How about "personal opinion"?

    That you have the nerve to first say in a previous post that the good reviews it gets are "beyond reason" and now saying Eve definitely isn't as good as the ratings it gets... talk about flying in the face of reason.

    *You* don't like the game personally. *You* don't feel the game deserves those ratings. Those are *your* opinions. So perhaps *you*  should learn to stay away from absolutes like "definitely isn't as good"... it's not as good in *your opinion*.

    Obviously there are thousands of people who disagree with you.




    "If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road,
    and the cash shop selling asphalt..."
    - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops

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  • severiusseverius sacramento, CAPosts: 1,514Member Common
    I find it funny and kind of sad that EI has to use the sony line of a small vocal minority.  I think that that speaks volumes about the current state of affairs with poor Horizon's.

    Horizon's in and of itself had a beautiful idea that was originally destroyed by the publisher (atari I think it was though I may be mistaken).  Tulga tried, unsuccessfully to make some of those ideas a reality but failed.  The fact that EI would buy a game that was limping along, and then cause these kinds of issues says much about the corporate structure surrounding mmo titles.  I hope that all new and old companies look at this, along with the actions of Sony last year and are able to not repeat the mistakes of the past.



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  • LordSlaterLordSlater petebouroughPosts: 2,087Member
    You know im really sad at whats happened to this game i tried it once just before it was sold off and i found the lag absolutly terrable which was why i gave up. I would however try this game again if the devs get there act together and fix this game and fix the lag.

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  • NadrilNadril Pittsburg, KSPosts: 1,276Member

    Originally posted by WSIMike
    Originally posted by Gorukha
    Originally posted by CracMonki
    Originally posted by Gorukha
      Yeah you might be right about GW, although I'm not entirely sold on their stellar sucess yet, since I can't find much
    info on their running costs and developing budget, casue as you said I'm a little man with little brain.

       As far as the technological side of EvE, I made the comparison because as you see in the reviews, technology isn't exactly one of the criteria .  Games fun and playability isnt judged on how many people can play on one server.  That's something for tech-geeks to drool over not the average gamer sorry.

       EvE has many fans, and I could understand why someone would give it an OK score. However the scores it recieves in many instances, as on this website, really go against reason. Game is hard to get into, it is very slow paced, alot of downtime, months to become competetive in the pvp aspect of it.  These are all arguemnts against the good scores this game recieves.  One more reason not to trust reviews of this site and many others.  EvE constantly advertising on this site and the unimaginably good scores ti recieves doesnt exactly fill me with trust.

     

    sorry... but EvE is a great game.. one of the best space games i've played.. and an awesome MMO..

    Game isn't really all that hard to get into... plus i think the learning curve is one of the good ways to smooth out the player base.. anyways.. I never see large amount of downtime.. but i don't try to play 24/7. Also any good MMO should takes months to become competetive in PvP. Thats one of the strong points. And as for as being slow paced not really... you can get out there and go pirate hunting and PVE the hell outa that game from start..

    now i do have to say that some the jumps take forever.. but thats just managment.. i've been able to keep my jumps to just a few hops..

    I beleave that all the stuff you talkeb about is what people like about EVE..

    The fact that it takes a little learning to get into it.. (not a WoW system where even the brain dead can play)

    shit and it has some of the best player run owned and controled game space in any MMO. as a player corp (aka guild) you can take over intired sectors of space.

    and many other things.. i can go one for hours about this.. hell just the tweaking of ships and how you combat things.. i myself like the stealth and distroy way...

     

    as for as server issues and expanding them.. Hell you tell me any other MMO that supports 100's if not a 1000 people fighting in large battles.. i've been in space battles that have had 100's of people going at it for control over a sector that has great resources.. sorry but no other MMo offers this type of gameplay.. and that right there is what gives EVE it's high scores..

     

    anyway thats my rant.


       Yah, I like when people are unable to even say anything bad about their game. Fanbois ftl.  No game is perfect and Eve definetly isnt as good as the ratings it gets/reviews.  Maybe its because many reviews are done by people who are addicted to that particualr game and cant form a balanced review, which I have seen forever in many publications and online magazines.  Not a good idea to let a crack-head do a balanced review on drugs.

      

    lol...

    dude.. you ever heard of the word "subjective'?  How about "personal opinion"?

    That you have the nerve to first say in a previous post that the good reviews it gets are "beyond reason" and now saying Eve definitely isn't as good as the ratings it gets... talk about flying in the face of reason.

    *You* don't like the game personally. *You* don't feel the game deserves those ratings. Those are *your* opinions. So perhaps *you*  should learn to stay away from absolutes like "definitely isn't as good"... it's not as good in *your opinion*.

    Obviously there are thousands of people who disagree with you.



    But, your shooting him down for his own opinion than, right? Makes sense to me.


  • WSIMikeWSIMike Catskill, NYPosts: 5,564Member

    But, your shooting him down for his own opinion than, right? Makes sense to me.


    Oh I love when people do this... completely and probably deliberately misconstrue what you say and then try to throw it back in your face.

    Okay... Show me where in my post I tell him his opinion is wrong, or I "shoot it down" in your words?

    ... give up?

    That's because I don't.

    What I am telling him is that he's discrediting others' views by stating what is only his opinion as though it were fact.

    Case in point:
    "No game is perfect and Eve definetly isnt as good as the ratings it gets/reviews."

    "definitely isn't as good as the ratings it gets" - I don't see anything in there resembling an "I think" or an "in my opinion", do you? No, he's stating it quite emphatically, using "definitely" to underscore that Eve is unquestionably not worthy of the reviews it receives.

    What I am "shooting down", in your words, is the attempt to impose his views on others as though it were fact, and not his opinion. It's a disrespectful and ignorant way to be in an open message forum where everyone's views/opinions, if sufficiently supported, should be respected - or at least respectfully disagreed with. But of course, I realize this is the internet, where such things are seldom seen.

    In my opinion, it seems as though he doesn't like the game and it bothers him that others do. That's too bad. But it's still only his opinion - no matter how strongly he feels about it.

    Get it?






    "If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road,
    and the cash shop selling asphalt..."
    - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops

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  • TantarraTantarra Mesa, AZPosts: 12Member
    I was a beta tester for Horizons. In the end I didn't subscribe when the game went live, although I did think the game held a lot of promise. It's sad to see that it has come to this stage. Interesting article.


    "Touch the M&Ms on my desk and you're fired from the design team."
    "No really! You're fired!"
    "Oh, you brought a refill. You're promoted."

  • JenuvielJenuviel Seattle, WAPosts: 960Member

    Originally posted by Finfid
    An interesting article I suppose, although Ms. Koh could use some more training in the use of english grammer and formating.
    1. English. Specific languages are always capitalized.
    2. grammar
    3. formatting

    I didn't make these corrections to be a pain in the behind, but rather to show that even simple, individual sentences can be riddled with mistakes. Overall, the article in question was fairly well-written and balanced. While technical details are important in writing, they're just the vehicle with which the information is delivered. Carolyn's information was researched, balanced, and understandable. If she misplaced a semicolon, I think we can probably forgive her. Since most of the MMORPG.com editorial writers are volunteers and hobbyists rather than professional writers, it's not really expected that they'd have copies of Strunk & White's "Elements of Style" next to their computers. Cheers. =)

    (P.S. I enjoyed the article, Carolyn. I was one of the former players who filed with the BBB, and it's nice to see the issues getting some coverage. I'd briefly played the game years ago and found it to be "okay," but not great. When the ownership changed, I went back to see if the game might have changed a bit as well. After realizing it hadn't, I then realized I couldn't cancel my account. There were no publicly listed phone numbers, none of the contact information on E.I.'s webpage was accurate, and when they eventually put up email addresses that could  be reached, I had to file for cancellation three times in three weeks before getting a response.)


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