I played L2 and SB but i do prefer wasd. the PnC is alright but i dont think that WASD has no place in MMO's. and as for being able to spam skills when useing wasd, i have never had a problem but im only speaking for myself. Anyway to argue over this is silly and im getting sucked into it lol.
anyone ever changed the keymap ?? i changed my movement to the arrow keys and it works fine for me , the turning is still not smooth and the strifing takes a bit to get used to but its better than some other games i have played.
Originally posted by Gameloading just use point & click then. it beats WASD movement any day of the week anyway. WASD is way to outdated.
I'd have to say that ypu are even more retarded than the crappy message board system they use here. The point and click method gives absolutely no freedom and kills any kind of emersion into the game. On top of that the whole point and click thing was old when games were still being played under DOS. There really isn't anything that beats the WASD + mouse navigation system and it shows by how poor all these Asian mmos are doing. I'm not agains having point and click as a option for the "slower" players, but it should definitely not be the only option. Like all the other Asian MMO's I've played the game looks good, but is completely lacking in content and point and click navigation system makes it unplayable. It's back to WOW until WAR comes out.
Originally posted by obscured i dont think WASD or point & click make somenoe buy a game or not.. GET SERIUS
Well, you're not too smart then. The navigation system is the MOST important part of the game. If that sucks, the rest of the game doesn't matter. I spent about 20 minutes in the game and just couldn't deal with the crappy navigation system. I'm just glad I didn't pay for this before I found this out. The game also has severe issues with dual core CPUs.
Originally posted by Gameloading just use point & click then. it beats WASD movement any day of the week anyway. WASD is way to outdated.
I'm afraid you are wrong on both counts. (and that is not an opinion it is a fact). Point and click pre-dates WASD by a couple of generations. Point and click plain does not work under certain circumstances. For exmple if there isn't a clear place to click due to a other players standing there or due to the worlds geometry. Dunno whether archlord has dungeons (I wont struggle with a P&C after strugling with LoA) but go to a dunegon and try and navigate round corners tough isn't it? Now try doing it with other players standing there, practicaly impossible.
Originally posted by sbowling Originally posted by Gameloading just use point & click then. it beats WASD movement any day of the week anyway. WASD is way to outdated.
I'd have to say that ypu are even more retarded than the crappy message board system they use here. The point and click method gives absolutely no freedom and kills any kind of emersion into the game. On top of that the whole point and click thing was old when games were still being played under DOS. There really isn't anything that beats the WASD + mouse navigation system and it shows by how poor all these Asian mmos are doing. I'm not agains having point and click as a option for the "slower" players, but it should definitely not be the only option. Like all the other Asian MMO's I've played the game looks good, but is completely lacking in content and point and click navigation system makes it unplayable. It's back to WOW until WAR comes out. yes, you don't agree with my view so your "retarded" Point & click DOES give you freedom. EVERYWHERE you can get with WASD, you can also get with Point & click, get a clue emersion? Maybe you don't get it, but speak for yourself. also, asian mmorpg's doing bad? get your facts right before you open your mouth. Most asian MMORPG's are doing MUCH better then western MMO's. In total, there are much more Point & click MMORPG players then WASD MMORPG players.
If you have to insult people because they have a diffrent view then yours, then yes, you made the right decision. Go back to WoW and STAY there. 36 and still insulting people for having a diffrent opinion, downright pathetic.
Originally posted by Gorilla Originally posted by Gameloading just use point & click then. it beats WASD movement any day of the week anyway. WASD is way to outdated.
I'm afraid you are wrong on both counts. (and that is not an opinion it is a fact). Point and click pre-dates WASD by a couple of generations. Point and click plain does not work under certain circumstances. For exmple if there isn't a clear place to click due to a other players standing there or due to the worlds geometry. Dunno whether archlord has dungeons (I wont struggle with a P&C after strugling with LoA) but go to a dunegon and try and navigate round corners tough isn't it? Now try doing it with other players standing there, practicaly impossible.
Age doesn't make a system outdated. what I meant is that WASD is there for no reason, other then that for some reason people want to use WASD over point & click. the chance you don't have clear space is absolutely minimal. Corners with lots of people? No problem. turn your camera slighty above your character, problem fixed.
mhh...imo for Archlord Point n Click will do the trick for itsself...for others games i´m not sure though...when you have a combatsystem, that allows you to attack sideways or from behind you might wanna strafe around your enemy and attack from behind....especially in combatzones/realm vs realm zones i like the fact of slowly moving,,turning and strafing around so i can get a better perspective on who is where and whats happening around me. Point n Click just minimizes this.
Also, spoken about dungeons. Lets say...mobs have a gro range right? and just there you are limitted in point n clicking cause you can only move in squares or diagonal to get around mobs,....with a smoth wasd movement n strafe you can easily get through such things.
At last i think it just depends on the player what he prefers and what kind of mmorpg he is or was playing first. But i think the "X is outdatet, Y rules" - discussion is senseless though i think both movement types have the right to exist....
Originally posted by Jimberfly http://mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/97120 Looks like WASD isnt dead quite yet...maybe do some research before you say its pointless and most people use PnC.
Nobody ever said that WASD movement is dead, maybe you should read a little more carefully.
And was that poll supposed to prove your point? Yes, the few posters that voted in that poll really show what people use most of the time [/sarcasm].
For your information, as you clearly didn't do any research, there are a good 30 million Asian MMORPG players who all play Point & click (besides the 2.5m playing WoW) because WASD movement was banished years ago, as unlike western gamers, eastern gamers DID realise that WASD is pointless in an mmorpg that has no twitch based gameplay.
there are a good 30 million Asian MMORPG players who all play Point & click
Just because a certain movement system wasnt implemented in one region (Asia) doesn´t mean that another one is outdated. The developers from those Korean rpgs might have been at the state "hey, we don´t need wasd in our games, but although on the other side, just try to have a good pvp-fight with point n click when you´re a rogue, swashbuckler or Mercenary where you have to attack from any other side than frontways or dont have autoattack....it´s just nearly impossible to do so....
So, i think it realy depends on what you play but stating that wasd is outdatet through the whole mmorpgs out there is clearly wrong. Like you can´t say "nobody eats meat anymore thesedays, because there are 25 million vegetarians" ...same thing ....
Originally posted by Oronwe Originally posted by Gameloading
there are a good 30 million Asian MMORPG players who all play Point & click
Just because a certain movement system wasnt implemented in one region (Asia) doesn´t mean that another one is outdated. The developers from those Korean rpgs might have been at the state "hey, we don´t need wasd in our games, but although on the other side, just try to have a good pvp-fight with point n click when you´re a rogue, swashbuckler or Mercenary where you have to attack from any other side than frontways or dont have autoattack....it´s just nearly impossible to do so....
So, i think it realy depends on what you play but stating that wasd is outdatet through the whole mmorpgs out there is clearly wrong. Like you can´t say "nobody eats meat anymore thesedays, because there are 25 million vegetarians" ...same thing ....
I'll admit, for Rogue classes WASD usually work better for PVP, but thas really the only class and situation it really wins. I never said WASD should be removed from games, I said from a technical standpoint, its not necisary in mmorpg and has less possibilities then point & click.
Also, WASD movement was implanted in asia. in fact,quite some WASD movement mmorpgs were released in asia, but they all closed down (well most of them, not all)
Point and click is the only movement option in low quality games because the programmers werent able to set free key options for the customers personal needs. Lower customisation is always a step back!
Beside this point and click is the way you move, target, attack and communicate with npc in Archlord. What by its nature to have one mouse action for several purposes causes chaos and actions the player did not want to perform ( for example archers that run into the mob that they originally wanted to target ).
you have to customize TAB though, to function it correctly....not sure right now, may be they fixed it, but before the last patch it was only targettin "some" enemy, whether next nor last but i get outa this discussion though it seems pretty useless, as i already said..depends on the game and play-experience what you choose to play with...
Originally posted by Canis Oh my all those anime Asian fanbois infesting every forums for Asian MMOs and spamming their praise. How much do they pay you guys again?
Grow up before you decide to post something. Or at least read what you type before clicking "post message."
Fanbois? LOL.
No need to cry just because we don't agree with your OPINION and happen to like a game you do not. Welcome to the real world where not everything will go your way, and where not everyone thinks or even wants to think the same way as you.
I prefer to use both WASD and Point and Click movement wherever available in a game, I can live without PnC but not WASD or rather WASD+Mouselook. WASD is the best method of doing precise movements, especially navigating carefully around high level aggro mobs in a tight space, doing positional attacks etc. PnC is the best method of traversing unobstructed distances, beats WASD+Autorun hands down, just sit back and a few PnCs later you've covered a ton of ground and delayed carpal tunnel syndrome in your left hand a little be longer.
I also want both working properly. As the original poster said the WASD movement in Archlord is below average and needs improvement, I agree.
Originally posted by LilithIshtar Originally posted by Canis Oh my all those anime Asian fanbois infesting every forums for Asian MMOs and spamming their praise. How much do they pay you guys again?
Grow up before you decide to post something. Or at least read what you type before clicking "post message."
Fanbois? LOL.
No need to cry just because we don't agree with your OPINION and happen to like a game you do not. Welcome to the real world where not everything will go your way, and where not everyone thinks or even wants to think the same way as you.
^^
You can't seriously clasify a game like Archlord as quality... just look at the 5.9 rating here on the site. And the theory of Anime loving asians hyping the game may not be so unbelievable. I can't see anyone paying to play such a sub standart game!
Originally posted by ValiumSummer Originally posted by Gameloading just use point & click then. it beats WASD movement any day of the week anyway. WASD is way to outdated.
Tab is bugged ! Please do not talk this rude to me. I was nice as well. Personal insults are impertinent and not appropriate.
I highly dislike comments like yours, backed up with nothing because you obvisously did not play the game even. If you tab it targets randomly: can be your pet, can be the corpse of the pet your mate killed, can be a mob far, far away, can be the mob another guy fights even, it is rarely the nearest mob. In this game there is also no precise targettting, even if tab would work, what makes you think an archer wants to target the nearest mob? Are you new in MMORPG?
Again: Quality games always offer customisation because there is no standard. A good gaming company never forces their customers to play on fixed key settings. In Archlord this is plus the game isnt able to support all the refresh rate settings for your monitor. Another bug that did not get fixed - and it is an alpha bug, not a beta one. But who cares. Not the fanbois. Those say Point and Click is standard, tab works fine and go insult people .
Originally posted by wormstla Originally posted by Rubiade ( for example archers that run into the mob that they originally wanted to target ).
Gameloading, you make little sense to me. You continually say "from a technical standpoint, WASD is not necessary" because point-and-click works. Well hell, based on that logic point-and-click isn't necessary because WASD works. You also seem pretty closed-minded on the whole subject. Most folks arguing against you aren't arguing against point-and-click movement, but against that being the only option.
From a purely technical standpoint, you should simply consider the input bandwidth available for a task to determine the better solution. The WASD system uses four keys in addition to the mouse for movement, therefore it would win for movement, at a sacrifice of other abilities. Pure point-and-click wins on ability triggering, at a sacrifice of movement and often targeting.
Both methods' weaknesses can be compensated for, usually one more easily than the other depending on the player, the game being played, and the sub-game (character class) being played.
Personally, I prefer ESDF (slide the WASD over) and then mapping abilities to the keys around there (123456 QWRT AG ZXCVB). This gives me the most input bandwidth my hands can handle, and keeps my hand on the keys it would naturally be on when typing, making the switch to chat very quick. I also tend to map seldom used, but important nonetheless, abilities to the num-pad, where my mouse hand can quickly jump over to trigger them.
I can easily imagine non-melee classes being played more effectively with point-and-click movement, as spell abilities need more bandwidth than quick movements. But nearly all melee classes need much more bandwidth on the movement, where keyboard/mouse combo wins. I can imagine a rogue being played well by a point-and-clicker, but they'd have to be damn good and would almost certainly be even better if they could train themselves to use keyboard movement as well.
Comments
and as for being able to spam skills when useing wasd, i have never had a problem but im only speaking for myself.
Anyway to argue over this is silly and im getting sucked into it lol.
I'm afraid you are wrong on both counts. (and that is not an opinion it is a fact). Point and click pre-dates WASD by a couple of generations. Point and click plain does not work under certain circumstances. For exmple if there isn't a clear place to click due to a other players standing there or due to the worlds geometry. Dunno whether archlord has dungeons (I wont struggle with a P&C after strugling with LoA) but go to a dunegon and try and navigate round corners tough isn't it? Now try doing it with other players standing there, practicaly impossible.
yes, you don't agree with my view so your "retarded" Point & click DOES give you freedom. EVERYWHERE you can get with WASD, you can also get with Point & click, get a clue emersion? Maybe you don't get it, but speak for yourself. also, asian mmorpg's doing bad? get your facts right before you open your mouth. Most asian MMORPG's are doing MUCH better then western MMO's. In total, there are much more Point & click MMORPG players then WASD MMORPG players.
If you have to insult people because they have a diffrent view then yours, then yes, you made the right decision. Go back to WoW and STAY there. 36 and still insulting people for having a diffrent opinion, downright pathetic.
I'm afraid you are wrong on both counts. (and that is not an opinion it is a fact). Point and click pre-dates WASD by a couple of generations. Point and click plain does not work under certain circumstances. For exmple if there isn't a clear place to click due to a other players standing there or due to the worlds geometry. Dunno whether archlord has dungeons (I wont struggle with a P&C after strugling with LoA) but go to a dunegon and try and navigate round corners tough isn't it? Now try doing it with other players standing there, practicaly impossible.
Age doesn't make a system outdated. what I meant is that WASD is there for no reason, other then that for some reason people want to use WASD over point & click. the chance you don't have clear space is absolutely minimal. Corners with lots of people? No problem. turn your camera slighty above your character, problem fixed.
Tried: Vanguard, UO, Rappelz, Archlord, RF Online, SWG, WAR, Ryzom, Anarchy Online, AC, APB, STO, Perfect World, Black Prophecy...
Played: EQ,EQII, Lineage, Lineage 2, GW, EVE Online, AoC, DoAC, iRO, AC2, WoW, SWTOR, Runes of Magic, Allods, Rift..
Currently Playing: Tera
Also, spoken about dungeons. Lets say...mobs have a gro range right? and just there you are limitted in point n clicking cause you can only move in squares or diagonal to get around mobs,....with a smoth wasd movement n strafe you can easily get through such things.
At last i think it just depends on the player what he prefers and what kind of mmorpg he is or was playing first. But i think the "X is outdatet, Y rules" - discussion is senseless though i think both movement types have the right to exist....
Which FF Character Are You?
http://mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/97120
Looks like WASD isnt dead quite yet...maybe do some research before you say its pointless and most people use PnC.
And was that poll supposed to prove your point? Yes, the few posters that voted in that poll really show what people use most of the time [/sarcasm].
For your information, as you clearly didn't do any research, there are a good 30 million Asian MMORPG players who all play Point & click (besides the 2.5m playing WoW) because WASD movement was banished years ago, as unlike western gamers, eastern gamers DID realise that WASD is pointless in an mmorpg that has no twitch based gameplay.
Just because a certain movement system wasnt implemented in one region (Asia) doesn´t mean that another one is outdated. The developers from those Korean rpgs might have been at the state "hey, we don´t need wasd in our games, but although on the other side, just try to have a good pvp-fight with point n click when you´re a rogue, swashbuckler or Mercenary where you have to attack from any other side than frontways or dont have autoattack....it´s just nearly impossible to do so....
So, i think it realy depends on what you play but stating that wasd is outdatet through the whole mmorpgs out there is clearly wrong. Like you can´t say "nobody eats meat anymore thesedays, because there are 25 million vegetarians" ...same thing ....
Which FF Character Are You?
Just because a certain movement system wasnt implemented in one region (Asia) doesn´t mean that another one is outdated. The developers from those Korean rpgs might have been at the state "hey, we don´t need wasd in our games, but although on the other side, just try to have a good pvp-fight with point n click when you´re a rogue, swashbuckler or Mercenary where you have to attack from any other side than frontways or dont have autoattack....it´s just nearly impossible to do so....
So, i think it realy depends on what you play but stating that wasd is outdatet through the whole mmorpgs out there is clearly wrong. Like you can´t say "nobody eats meat anymore thesedays, because there are 25 million vegetarians" ...same thing ....
I'll admit, for Rogue classes WASD usually work better for PVP, but thas really the only class and situation it really wins.
I never said WASD should be removed from games, I said from a technical standpoint, its not necisary in mmorpg and has less possibilities then point & click.
Also, WASD movement was implanted in asia. in fact,quite some WASD movement mmorpgs were released in asia, but they all closed down (well most of them, not all)
Which FF Character Are You?
Lower customisation is always a step back!
Beside this point and click is the way you move, target, attack and communicate with npc in Archlord.
What by its nature to have one mouse action for several purposes causes chaos and actions the player did not want to perform ( for example archers that run into the mob that they originally wanted to target ).
"Tab" 3
Learn how to play before complain.
but i get outa this discussion though it seems pretty useless, as i already said..depends on the game and play-experience what you choose to play with...
Which FF Character Are You?
Oh my all those anime Asian fanbois infesting every forums for Asian MMOs and spamming their praise. How much do they pay you guys again?
Fanbois? LOL.
No need to cry just because we don't agree with your OPINION and happen to like a game you do not. Welcome to the real world where not everything will go your way, and where not everyone thinks or even wants to think the same way as you.
^^
Independant, Shinto, Lesbian, and Proud!
I prefer to use both WASD and Point and Click movement wherever available in a game, I can live without PnC but not WASD or rather WASD+Mouselook. WASD is the best method of doing precise movements, especially navigating carefully around high level aggro mobs in a tight space, doing positional attacks etc. PnC is the best method of traversing unobstructed distances, beats WASD+Autorun hands down, just sit back and a few PnCs later you've covered a ton of ground and delayed carpal tunnel syndrome in your left hand a little be longer.
I also want both working properly. As the original poster said the WASD movement in Archlord is below average and needs improvement, I agree.
Fanbois? LOL.
No need to cry just because we don't agree with your OPINION and happen to like a game you do not. Welcome to the real world where not everything will go your way, and where not everyone thinks or even wants to think the same way as you.
^^
You can't seriously clasify a game like Archlord as quality... just look at the 5.9 rating here on the site. And the theory of Anime loving asians hyping the game may not be so unbelievable. I can't see anyone paying to play such a sub standart game!
"WASD is way to outdated"
is that stated as an opionion or as a fact?
"WASD is way to outdated"
is that stated as an opionion or as a fact?
fact.
"Tab" 3
Learn how to play before complain.
Gameloading, you make little sense to me. You continually say "from a technical standpoint, WASD is not necessary" because point-and-click works. Well hell, based on that logic point-and-click isn't necessary because WASD works. You also seem pretty closed-minded on the whole subject. Most folks arguing against you aren't arguing against point-and-click movement, but against that being the only option.
From a purely technical standpoint, you should simply consider the input bandwidth available for a task to determine the better solution. The WASD system uses four keys in addition to the mouse for movement, therefore it would win for movement, at a sacrifice of other abilities. Pure point-and-click wins on ability triggering, at a sacrifice of movement and often targeting.
Both methods' weaknesses can be compensated for, usually one more easily than the other depending on the player, the game being played, and the sub-game (character class) being played.
Personally, I prefer ESDF (slide the WASD over) and then mapping abilities to the keys around there (123456 QWRT AG ZXCVB). This gives me the most input bandwidth my hands can handle, and keeps my hand on the keys it would naturally be on when typing, making the switch to chat very quick. I also tend to map seldom used, but important nonetheless, abilities to the num-pad, where my mouse hand can quickly jump over to trigger them.
I can easily imagine non-melee classes being played more effectively with point-and-click movement, as spell abilities need more bandwidth than quick movements. But nearly all melee classes need much more bandwidth on the movement, where keyboard/mouse combo wins. I can imagine a rogue being played well by a point-and-clicker, but they'd have to be damn good and would almost certainly be even better if they could train themselves to use keyboard movement as well.