I would love to play a real innovative game, but I have to say, I haven't see it yet and I certainly don't see it in AoC. Horizons probobly had the most innovation of any 2nd generation MMO and it couldn't pull it off because people with $$$$$ want $$$$$ not innovation.
Originally posted by Amathe I love when game developers do a demo of the game for an interviewer from the point of view of someone on a dragon mount and probably wearing high end gear. Look how much fun the game is once you have all this stuff! Of course, it may take you years (and probably never) to get that stuff, so what kind of a demo is that? Dark & Light probably rocks in a demo where you have everything cool in the game already. Next time, why not say "let me experience the game from the perspective of a low level, casual character wearing crappy gear." Play that way for a while. Then write about how "fun" the game is.
The day went like this:
1. High level demo of the game by me and Jeff. That's where we showed off all of the high level stuff, the flying mounts, etc.
2. The rest of the afternoon, the 20+ journalists broke into groups of two and then had 20-30 miniute interviews with Jeff or me.
3. After the initial demo and when they were not interviewing either Jeff or me, they sat in a room with 20+ computers and started beta characters from level 1, connected to the live beta 3 servers, and experienced the game for hours just like any other tester.
So they saw it all and your assumption that they only saw level 40+ material is, with all due respect, the farthest from the truth -- totally false.
They saw and experienced it all. The high level game and high level overview from Jeff and me. Time to ask Jeff or me any questions they wanted to. Time to talk to various designers and other Sigil people who were down at the event, including designers who do popularion, class design, etc. And time to play the game from level 1 until, well, one guy hit 7 or 8.
Then they left with thier accounts. And they are still playing.
The only thing is is that they are limited to anything too in-depth in terms of coverage (the online sites) for about a month so that those articles appear with the magazines, given the lead times the magazines need to get stuff into print.
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-------------------------------------------------------------- Brad McQuaid CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc. www.pantheonmmo.com --------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Vallenar I agree with the above post. This game seems to be leaning towards the power gamer and not the causal gamer. I can already see the dedicated fans scooping up all the valuable real estate and selling it for huge amounts of cash. I hope I make it into the demo to check it out because it does sound cool. The diplomacy, flying mounts, ships, this game seems to have it all. I just hope I am proven wrong on the power game part.
You will be proven wrong. The majority of content is for those in-between, the average or 'core' gamer.
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-------------------------------------------------------------- Brad McQuaid CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc. www.pantheonmmo.com --------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by JonMichael Nope... Not falling for it. Brad sold his dream to SOE so the game wouldn't be laggy?? OMG, did the man ever play EQ2 and try to move in Qeynos Harbor? Pre launch hype! Rest assured a large part of subscription dollars will still end up in SOE's hands!
It will be about 24 gigs installed. The game IS that big. Bigger than any game I know of. And not just big in terms of size, but big in terms of what you can do and how much content. And with HDs so cheap and so big now, 24 gigs is nothing.
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-------------------------------------------------------------- Brad McQuaid CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc. www.pantheonmmo.com --------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by ltolman Now on to my questions about Vanguard. 1.) I was also under the impression that EQ2s housing would be out in the open as well, it showed a picture and or video feed that their crafting materials was out in the open (forge, etc) but yet as it turns out, it ended up being an instanced zone; is that what this is gonna be? 2.) Travel-I heard that there was gonna be vehicles, unless the word "vehicles" meant like ships??
1. Housing is outside in the real world and not instanced, like SW:G was. This was the original plan for EQ 2, but things changed after I left. Given that we already have houses in beta that are working as I described above, this is not going to change.
2. Travel = horses, unicorns, hellhounds, camels, ships of various sizes and abilities and holding area, flying mounts like griffons, pegagus, drake, etc. And none on rails -- all part of a seamless world where if you see a place, you can go there.
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-------------------------------------------------------------- Brad McQuaid CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc. www.pantheonmmo.com --------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by MrBoots This game is going to be awful. According to this thread the game client is already over 20gb in size. A post later in the thread says the devs expect the client to be closer to 30gb at release. I have seen 1gb korean games that have better graphics than this game. It looks like this game will turn out to be a pile of bloatware crap. Well unless they have a map the actual size of the earth or something.
Oh, and yes, the world IS huge. Here's a rough picture of the size of the world just from the south of Thestra to the north of Qalia, showing just a bit of Kojan in-between, but with most of the archipelago and other isles not shown: Thestra-to-Qalia.
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-------------------------------------------------------------- Brad McQuaid CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc. www.pantheonmmo.com --------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by dreamer05 First of all. While I understand that people were abused by SOE while playing SWG, if VG looks like a game you would "love" as you say then not playing it simply because SOE is making some money off of it is stupid. If you know you'll like a game, why not play it. I understand not subscribing to a game SOE is making, has made, or has complete control of but this just isn't the case. I am a huge SOE hater and SWG player myself but when they talked about how no other publisher has experience like SOE I knew they were right. Sorry but not playing a game you could love because SOE has something to do with it is just silly. Secondly, this is definately going to be a more hardcore mmo. But about the housing thing, if people devote more time, they are going to get more rewards understandably. Why wouldn't they? Why should someone who only plays 10 hours a week get as many rewards as someone who plays 30? While I definately don't have enough time to be playing 30 a week I still understand why hardcore gamers could get more than casual, and its not a big deal.
It's pretty pathetic that we still have to answer those kind of us ignorant comment after 10 years of mmo.
First of all: It is an EXELLENT reason to not be playing ANY MMO that has SOE in the portrait or back ground. I don't buy Nike stuff because they exploit poor children to make their shoes. It's not the shoes that i don't like, it's the companies method behind. So boycoiting $OE for that same reason, even if you like their product is completely justified.
Secondly: There are still idiots in this world to claim that your playtime should "automatically" rewards you more. Well, you're a moron. From the moment you pay your subscribtion fee, you shouldn't get "more" just because you spend more time in front of your screen like a looser. If you haven't understand by now that your off-line time should be used in a MMO to reduce the discrepancy between hardcore and casual gamers, you have missed the train that is leading to the third generation. So go play your dinosaurus MMO and spare us your ignorance.
1. Comparing exploiting children to what SOE did is ludicrous. I understand and respect why some people are upset with SOE, but this is way over the top. I have also made many, many posts as to why we made this switch, and why it was the best move for Sigil, for Vanguard, and for Vanguard players. To not to have made this decision would have been me not doing my job. Make your stand, draw your line in the sand but a. don't made crazy comparisons equating a company messing up a game to children being exploited and b. no matter your choice, just as I respect those who don't want to do business with SOE (even though I disagree), those of you should also respect my decision even if you don't understand or disagree.
2. There are games where just paying for them entitles you to rewards. I'm not sure if they are truly rewards, though, if you are entitled to them. Rewards are usually earned. Human nature dictates that if you work for something, you take pride in it and it means something to you. Our responsibility is to make that 'working for something' not just fun in terms of what you get at the end, but fun a long the way. That is our plan and what we are striving for. But this I know: a game based purely on entitlement, where you somehow have the right to have everything, every item, spell, skill, ability, and see every location, just because you pay the fee, is not going to be one where people get a real sense of accomplishment and will have issues with longevity and also have a hard time convincing people to pay a monthly fee for. You can't change human nature, not in RL, and not in a game.
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-------------------------------------------------------------- Brad McQuaid CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc. www.pantheonmmo.com --------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Jadar McQuaid on housing: "We're not content to just redo all the 'stuff that sucked' from Everquest, no no, we're importing 'stuff that sucked' from other games."
Never said that, never meant that, and it doesn't describe Vanguard in the slightest. My suggestion to you would be instead of posting misinformation about a game, basically lies, that you go off and do something fun and rewarding. You'd be a happier person I bet.
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-------------------------------------------------------------- Brad McQuaid CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc. www.pantheonmmo.com --------------------------------------------------------------
Dang, I'm thinking to try this game but I also had bad exp. with SOE' (costumer service) when i was playing eq 1&2. For the 8 months I was playing FFXI online i never had a problem with ENIX.Anyway back to the subject,I think what Sigil is trying to do is to bring the nostalgia from EQ to Vanguard but with SOE as partnership idk about that.Still i know a lot of ppl going to give it a try and maybe so do I.
If you had read the whole thing you would know that SOE will only publish and provide the servers. Customer service will be dealt by Sigil, and only Sigil can change the game.
At least till they sell the game to SOE after a year, so they can go on with making another game..... No plans to sell. We have 7 years of gameplay, content, and features planned for Vanguard, have worked hard, poured our hearts and souls into this game, and letting it go at launch or soon after simply makes no sense.
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-------------------------------------------------------------- Brad McQuaid CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc. www.pantheonmmo.com --------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Valarauk SOE is the kiss of death. They destroy everything they touch and treat their customers like shit. Vanguard could have been a great game, now we'll never know.
1. They are not touching Vanguard
2. We are doing the CS.
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-------------------------------------------------------------- Brad McQuaid CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc. www.pantheonmmo.com --------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Aradune Its about freedom of choice-There are virtually no limitations in Vanguard- So what are you waiting for? Youre not just spending time, youre investing time, both in your characters and in the relationships you form in-game
-Brad McQuaid Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Original Producer & Co-Designer, EverQuest
I am still waiting for you or another staff member to answer my question regarding self sufficient soloing crafting.
You might want to explain your philosophy on investment of time to SOE as they seem to disregard that concept.
PS. I like your quote, it's similar in meaning to mine. How do you feel about gold selling and websites that promote it?
1. You can solo doing crafting just fine. In fact, of all of the spheres, it is the one mostly meant for soloing. Much more information is out there and detail -- please take a look.
2. We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it.
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-------------------------------------------------------------- Brad McQuaid CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc. www.pantheonmmo.com --------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Vrazule Guild Wars would have been perfect if it had only been a persistant world, that offered other things than just combat. Everything is instanced and the skill deck system is too limiting for my taste.
In which case they would have had to charge a monthly fee for it. But it is an excellent game -- just not at all the same kind of game Vanguard (or WoW, or EQ 1 or 2, or DAoC, etc.) are.
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-------------------------------------------------------------- Brad McQuaid CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc. www.pantheonmmo.com --------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Vallenar I agree with the above post. This game seems to be leaning towards the power gamer and not the causal gamer. I can already see the dedicated fans scooping up all the valuable real estate and selling it for huge amounts of cash. I hope I make it into the demo to check it out because it does sound cool. The diplomacy, flying mounts, ships, this game seems to have it all. I just hope I am proven wrong on the power game part.
My question to you is: Ever since WoW, why does every MMO that comes out have to cater to the casual gamer?
That's what's great about Vanguard -- our primary target audiience is the average gamer, the 'core' gamer. About 60% of our content is focused on that player, with another 20% for casual and another 20% for raiid.
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-------------------------------------------------------------- Brad McQuaid CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc. www.pantheonmmo.com --------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by liquidmetal From what I've heard, Vanguard is aimed at hardcore gamers who don't mind time sinks and are excited at the prospect of playing a game that will scare off twelve year olds within the first five minutes of game play. If that is in fact the aim of the game, then complaining about it being aimed at hardcore players is like complaining about a new action movie that's aimed at people who like action movies. If this isn't what you want from a MMO then go play something that's not made for hardcore gamers. Don't sit here and flame this one for being what it is. What kind of casual MMO exists? I don't know. Mario? Just roleplay that all of the NPC's and mobs are players.
No, it is primarily aimed at the average, 'core' gamer, not the hardcore gamer. Please read this.
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-------------------------------------------------------------- Brad McQuaid CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc. www.pantheonmmo.com --------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Vrazule I think the point he is making is that the game is no longer Brad's baby. SOE has its hands on it financially, which will if not already translate into developing politics, which will eventually lead into game direction being dictated by those who foot the bill. EQ wasn't the only game out there to have this happen to them by their supposed distributers and marketers. These companies invest in the game, if they feel like their investment is being misused or abused, they will step in and take action. Personally, I like the changes they made to SWG, so I don't have issue with SOE possibly taking the reigns, except for one thing and that is how that company treats its customers. Their service record leaves much to be desired, they seem to take this stance that the customer in general is a liying cheat and undeserving of any kind of recompense for accidental deletions of characters, items or money. They're too lazy in most cases to even check game records in this regard. But then again, I haven't had much luck with any MMO company's customer service. They are one of the few business that don't seem to really care, they are similar to phone, cable and utility companies in many ways. The complaining customer is replacable and insignificant.
Nope, we are making the design decisions even with SOE footing part of the bill (marketing, hosting, etc.) and this isn't just a handshake agreement, it's in the legal contract between us.
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-------------------------------------------------------------- Brad McQuaid CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc. www.pantheonmmo.com --------------------------------------------------------------
EQ was owned by Sony in full from the very beginning. That is an entirely different situation.
Not really, remember all that about the "vision" dying?
Well apperently the Vision didn't die, it shambles on like a brain eating zombie, unchanged and unchanging...
I was in Beta, and let me tell you that Vanguard, Saga of Suckass isn't EQ2, its EQ1.5. I told them to shove it after MONTHS of emails only ever got me form letters and bullsh*t, it definatly was NOT my PC or networks fault... what a joke.
And that retard McSquid keep talking smack about Age of Conan, about how much farther along Vanguard is and blah blah blah... well sorry charlie, you could take another year and unless you scrap your gfx and start from scratch its still going to suck compared to AoC...
So if you are looking for another EQ/WoW style raidgrind=endgame game, Vanguard is for you... as for me and mine, we are looking for innovation.
If you were in beta, it was obviously very early on and you may not have understood that. The beta is now in phase 3 and has a lot of players playing all of the time, the majority of which are having a good time, and a better time hopefully each patch we make (and we patch often).
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-------------------------------------------------------------- Brad McQuaid CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc. www.pantheonmmo.com --------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Rattrap I understand the SOE hate here.
But no other decent MMO is coming for at least 1 year from now , except for Vanguard and LOTRO. Lotro will probably be shit. So we will probably all end up playing Vanguard at least for little while...
And for power gamer focus in Vanguard. Well good , on the end only the hard and dificult games stay interesting for long time... Easy games like WOW wear out fast.
Age of Conan is due out in Q2 2007. It looks like it's going to beat Vanguard hands down.
We're due out Q1 2007 and ask anyone who was at E3 which game was clearly farthest a long. I hope AoC is great, but let's also stick to reality
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-------------------------------------------------------------- Brad McQuaid CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc. www.pantheonmmo.com --------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Vrazule AoC does target a wider range of gameplay and seems to reward all of them equally, that alone makes it a more likely candidate to have larger appeal than Vanguard. Vanguard wants to be "niche" / "core", more power to them, but I don't see them ever breaking 500,000 at its peak.
Why do you say that? Can you list a set of reasons why you think AoC is more mainstream and less niche than Vanguard?
thanks,
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-------------------------------------------------------------- Brad McQuaid CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc. www.pantheonmmo.com --------------------------------------------------------------
Please explain to me how AoC is innovative, I just read the FAQ and it looks like another Shadowbane or Lineage game.
There is nothing innovative about Vanguard. Tell us what you think is 3rd generation regarding Vanguard. It's just another forced grouping/dependency, raiding offers best rewards game. Been there done that, 1st generation MMOG.
When did I say I thought Vanguard was innovative. Vanguard is taking what works and making a great game. Want an innovative game, go play horizons and then shoot urself. I like what Vanguard is doing, they are bringing it back to generation 1 and planning ahead this time. WoW is basically EQ with cartoon graphics and easy gameplay and it is the largest MMO on the market. Vanguard is getting away from the stupid cartoon look and easy gameplay and making a really interesting title that will have a more realistic feel. Death will once again be something to fear and I couldn't be any happier .
I agree with you that death should be something to fear and would enjoy the difficulty settings of Vanguard if raiding and dependency was not the focus it will be. In EQ1 prior to Planes of Power, there was plenty of content for all playstyle choices including soloing. I could be a self sufficient soloing crafter in EQ1 prior to PoP but from what the lead dev crafting designer for Vanguard told me, that won't be the case in Vanguard. The emphasis on raiding and dependency is what I fear.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it." Brad McQuaid Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc. Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes www.vanguardsoh
Originally posted by Aradune 1. You can solo doing crafting just fine. In fact, of all of the spheres, it is the one mostly meant for soloing. Much more information is out there and detail -- please take a look.
2. We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it.
I appreciate the responses but I am getting conflicting reports from you and your lead dev crafting designer, and it concerns me. Perhaps if I can beta Vanguard sufficiently before retail I will know the truth.
According to what he said previously on the Vanguard forums, some crafting materials will only drop from a mob if a "crafter", someone in crafting mode, is present in the group. This means that the "crafter" is dependent on another person who is in the standard "adventuring" mode to make the kill, while the "crafter" is basically just standing by idle. If this is the case, then crafting can not be a solo profession.
Also in order for crafting to be a solo profession, there can be no crafting materials limited to raid or group mobs or areas to be harvested within their domain which a soloer could not survive in. Think in terms of Planes of Power and you understand my meaning. Prior to PoP I was a self sufficent solo crafter in EQ1 and it was still difficult and challenging. Being dependent on others does not create challenge or dictate difficulty.
It would be false to suggest crafting to be soloable simply because you can max your skills via NPC work orders. The purpose of pursuing crafting is to be able to make all items that your chosen craft allows, especially the best ones, and if that can't be done solo, including harvesting those materials, then it is not soloable.
It's misleading to downplay raiding as only being 20% of the content, because raiding is the dominent content at the higher levels which leaves no alternatives to soloers and small group oriented players. At least that has been the case in most MMOGs that offered raiding.
The point is kinda mute though for me because:
A. I despise all pre order in-game advantage deals as they are unfair to retail customers who justifiably wait til NDAs are lifted and can possibly beta test and hear reviews about the game prior to spending money on it.
B. Your affiliation with SOE was not a good choice from a marketing perspective. SOE deserves all the criticism they get and it's sound judgement for gamers to avoid being burned again.
C. I am a gamer who commits to one MMOG at a time, and if I have to make a choice between Vanguard or Chronicles of Spellborn, depending on release dates, not having tested either game, I am choosing Chronicles of Spellborn.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it." Brad McQuaid Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc. Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes www.vanguardsoh
I don't understand this desire for solo play, this is an MMO. Im paying the subscription so that I can play with other people not so I can play by myself. If you want a game with great solo content go out and buy a single player game. Noone or at least not many are going to pay a subscription for a game where solo content is the emphasis when there hundreds of titles every month that deliver solo content with no subscription fee. Just Imagine Guild Wars with a subscription fee LOL.
Originally posted by Ceridan I don't understand this desire for solo play, this is an MMO. Im paying the subscription so that I can play with other people not so I can play by myself. If you want a game with great solo content go out and buy a single player game. Noone or at least not many are going to pay a subscription for a game where solo content is the emphasis when there hundreds of titles every month that deliver solo content with no subscription fee. Just Imagine Guild Wars with a subscription fee LOL.
Well, I am a grouper and I plan on corrupting as many soloers as possible to grouping. But once upon a time, I was mostly a soloer and I was looking forward to solo as much as possible, inside a MMO. So I will try to show you some valid reasons why a soloer would want a MMO that is focused about...soloing. (none of these points remove the possibility to have a nice grouping experience, althought it complexify it slightly)
1- Competition. Soloers can see what other soloers are doing, and thereby try to outdo them. It might mean nothing to you, but trust me, for peoples who are heavily focused on soloing, this matter a LOT. Having a soloing endgame would helps a LOT and make these soloers happy. Such endgame should have no impact on the grouping system and be unaffected by the grouping endgame...soloers would love it and work to be the best soloers, and that would be fine. If I want to be good at soloing, it is fine that the game request me to solo, if I don't do it, I don't deserve it...as long as it work the same way for grouping uberness.
1-A True soloing ethic. That is a point I am not sure I can convey or make you understand very well, but see, soloers have kinda an "honor system" on their own, even if you can't understand it. Yes, they would love a system that only by soloing you can progress furthermore. This might seem opposed to grouping, but it isn't...it just mean that you need more than only 1 overall system...see, asking someone information is not a true soloer...but giving this information is important...ah...this is sooo far. See, a soloing shaman that was walking with a griffon pet in EQ, it was something every soloer would respect...there is something, I am sorry if I can't convey the feeling that well, after all, I am a grouper myself, not really a soloer. See, for me there is no shame in talking and sharing a LOT of information, for a true soloer, asking for this information is kinda shameful...someone has to experience it, not ask for it...
2- Cooperation. Even if they solo in their little area, soloer can share information, directly, they may encounter other soloers in real time, doing the same stuff they do or a variation.
3- Sharing the same world, even if you solo, you ain't alone.
4- Soloers are available to grouping offers. They are not easy to convert, they may steer backward and move away, they may prefer soloing over some groups. But...they are available to be tamed into grouper. Maybe not by me, maybe not by you, but the right person at the right place can.
Soloing in a MMO can't be compared to soloing in a single player game. Maybe from YOUR point of view it is the same, but you are not a MMO-soloer, you just don't understand what these soloers understand. I am sure there are MANY other points, the fact I have issues to bring them just prove that I am more or less a soloer myself, not that they don't exist.
See, ideally, a MMO has 1 distinct endgame per gameplay, each endgame is unaffected by the others and doesn't affect them...so the best soloers are soloers...the best groupers are groupers...and so on with every major gameplay. Having 1 crushing system is exactly the opposing logic, but in the opposing logic you have to partake in every endgame or accept to be a weaker character...in a game nobody should have to willingly settle for a weakling status.
The Vision(tm) evolves from a raiding logic crushing all gameplays, to a generalist logic where someone have to do everything, which is slightly better, but not much. Especially that in vanguard, it isn't balanced, someone will spend a LOT more time raiding then doing anything else, this 20% items acquisition will take longer in time than all the 80% combined together...a complete lack of balance that will worsen with every new expansion...yet, the Vision(tm) evolves slightly...but it is at the opposing way now...it used to be a specialist minding (raiding) and it become a generalist thinking...but a generalist thinking doesn't work well in a game IMO, since players want to do what they like, not everything, thereby the generalist thinking is always doomed from the start, in a hobby.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Well, I am a grouper and I plan on corrupting as many soloers as possible to grouping. But once upon a time, I was mostly a soloer and I was looking forward to solo as much as possible, inside a MMO. So I will try to show you some valid reasons why a soloer would want a MMO that is focused about...soloing. (none of these points remove the possibility to have a nice grouping experience, althought it complexify it slightly) 1- Competition. Soloers can see what other soloers are doing, and thereby try to outdo them. It might mean nothing to you, but trust me, for peoples who are heavily focused on soloing, this matter a LOT. Having a soloing endgame would helps a LOT and make these soloers happy. Such endgame should have no impact on the grouping system and be unaffected by the grouping endgame...soloers would love it and work to be the best soloers, and that would be fine. If I want to be good at soloing, it is fine that the game request me to solo, if I don't do it, I don't deserve it...as long as it work the same way for grouping uberness. 1-A True soloing ethic. That is a point I am not sure I can convey or make you understand very well, but see, soloers have kinda an "honor system" on their own, even if you can't understand it. Yes, they would love a system that only by soloing you can progress furthermore. This might seem opposed to grouping, but it isn't...it just mean that you need more than only 1 overall system...see, asking someone information is not a true soloer...but giving this information is important...ah...this is sooo far. See, a soloing shaman that was walking with a griffon pet in EQ, it was something every soloer would respect...there is something, I am sorry if I can't convey the feeling that well, after all, I am a grouper myself, not really a soloer. See, for me there is no shame in talking and sharing a LOT of information, for a true soloer, asking for this information is kinda shameful...someone has to experience it, not ask for it... 2- Cooperation. Even if they solo in their little area, soloer can share information, directly, they may encounter other soloers in real time, doing the same stuff they do or a variation. 3- Sharing the same world, even if you solo, you ain't alone. 4- Soloers are available to grouping offers. They are not easy to convert, they may steer backward and move away, they may prefer soloing over some groups. But...they are available to be tamed into grouper. Maybe not by me, maybe not by you, but the right person at the right place can.
Soloing in a MMO can't be compared to soloing in a single player game. Maybe from YOUR point of view it is the same, but you are not a MMO-soloer, you just don't understand what these soloers understand. I am sure there are MANY other points, the fact I have issues to bring them just prove that I am more or less a soloer myself, not that they don't exist.
See, ideally, a MMO has 1 distinct endgame per gameplay, each endgame is unaffected by the others and doesn't affect them...so the best soloers are soloers...the best groupers are groupers...and so on with every major gameplay. Having 1 crushing system is exactly the opposing logic, but in the opposing logic you have to partake in every endgame or accept to be a weaker character...in a game nobody should have to willingly settle for a weakling status. The Vision(tm) evolves from a raiding logic crushing all gameplays, to a generalist logic where someone have to do everything, which is slightly better, but not much. Especially that in vanguard, it isn't balanced, someone will spend a LOT more time raiding then doing anything else, this 20% items acquisition will take longer in time than all the 80% combined together...a complete lack of balance that will worsen with every new expansion...yet, the Vision(tm) evolves slightly...but it is at the opposing way now...it used to be a specialist minding (raiding) and it become a generalist thinking...but a generalist thinking doesn't work well in a game IMO, since players want to do what they like, not everything, thereby the generalist thinking is always doomed from the start, in a hobby.
Yikes man type much? The reason people want to solo in an MMO is because they want freedom. Do whatever you want in a game, that's what we want to do. Forcing people to do things they don't enjoy upsets people for obvious reasons. Plenty of MMO's allow soloing to a lage extent. I think that is why some people get so pissed at Vanguard: it's a great looking high production MMO that isn't being made for their play style.
It is however being made for mine. I'll be on the PVP server.
Comments
The day went like this:
1. High level demo of the game by me and Jeff. That's where we showed off all of the high level stuff, the flying mounts, etc.
2. The rest of the afternoon, the 20+ journalists broke into groups of two and then had 20-30 miniute interviews with Jeff or me.
3. After the initial demo and when they were not interviewing either Jeff or me, they sat in a room with 20+ computers and started beta characters from level 1, connected to the live beta 3 servers, and experienced the game for hours just like any other tester.
So they saw it all and your assumption that they only saw level 40+ material is, with all due respect, the farthest from the truth -- totally false.
They saw and experienced it all. The high level game and high level overview from Jeff and me. Time to ask Jeff or me any questions they wanted to. Time to talk to various designers and other Sigil people who were down at the event, including designers who do popularion, class design, etc. And time to play the game from level 1 until, well, one guy hit 7 or 8.
Then they left with thier accounts. And they are still playing.
The only thing is is that they are limited to anything too in-depth in terms of coverage (the online sites) for about a month so that those articles appear with the magazines, given the lead times the magazines need to get stuff into print.
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Brad McQuaid
CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
www.pantheonmmo.com
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Brad McQuaid
CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
www.pantheonmmo.com
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Brad McQuaid
CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
www.pantheonmmo.com
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1. Housing is outside in the real world and not instanced, like SW:G was. This was the original plan for EQ 2, but things changed after I left. Given that we already have houses in beta that are working as I described above, this is not going to change.
2. Travel = horses, unicorns, hellhounds, camels, ships of various sizes and abilities and holding area, flying mounts like griffons, pegagus, drake, etc. And none on rails -- all part of a seamless world where if you see a place, you can go there.
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Brad McQuaid
CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
www.pantheonmmo.com
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Brad McQuaid
CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
www.pantheonmmo.com
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Brad McQuaid
CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
www.pantheonmmo.com
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It's pretty pathetic that we still have to answer those kind of us ignorant comment after 10 years of mmo.
First of all: It is an EXELLENT reason to not be playing ANY MMO that has SOE in the portrait or back ground. I don't buy Nike stuff because they exploit poor children to make their shoes. It's not the shoes that i don't like, it's the companies method behind. So boycoiting $OE for that same reason, even if you like their product is completely justified.
Secondly: There are still idiots in this world to claim that your playtime should "automatically" rewards you more. Well, you're a moron. From the moment you pay your subscribtion fee, you shouldn't get "more" just because you spend more time in front of your screen like a looser. If you haven't understand by now that your off-line time should be used in a MMO to reduce the discrepancy between hardcore and casual gamers, you have missed the train that is leading to the third generation. So go play your dinosaurus MMO and spare us your ignorance.
1. Comparing exploiting children to what SOE did is ludicrous. I understand and respect why some people are upset with SOE, but this is way over the top. I have also made many, many posts as to why we made this switch, and why it was the best move for Sigil, for Vanguard, and for Vanguard players. To not to have made this decision would have been me not doing my job. Make your stand, draw your line in the sand but a. don't made crazy comparisons equating a company messing up a game to children being exploited and b. no matter your choice, just as I respect those who don't want to do business with SOE (even though I disagree), those of you should also respect my decision even if you don't understand or disagree.
2. There are games where just paying for them entitles you to rewards. I'm not sure if they are truly rewards, though, if you are entitled to them. Rewards are usually earned. Human nature dictates that if you work for something, you take pride in it and it means something to you. Our responsibility is to make that 'working for something' not just fun in terms of what you get at the end, but fun a long the way. That is our plan and what we are striving for. But this I know: a game based purely on entitlement, where you somehow have the right to have everything, every item, spell, skill, ability, and see every location, just because you pay the fee, is not going to be one where people get a real sense of accomplishment and will have issues with longevity and also have a hard time convincing people to pay a monthly fee for. You can't change human nature, not in RL, and not in a game.
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Brad McQuaid
CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
www.pantheonmmo.com
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Brad McQuaid
CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
www.pantheonmmo.com
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At least till they sell the game to SOE after a year, so they can go on with making another game.....
No plans to sell. We have 7 years of gameplay, content, and features planned for Vanguard, have worked hard, poured our hearts and souls into this game, and letting it go at launch or soon after simply makes no sense.
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Brad McQuaid
CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
www.pantheonmmo.com
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1. They are not touching Vanguard
2. We are doing the CS.
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Brad McQuaid
CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
www.pantheonmmo.com
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I am still waiting for you or another staff member to answer my question regarding self sufficient soloing crafting.
http://mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/95513/page/17
You might want to explain your philosophy on investment of time to SOE as they seem to disregard that concept.
PS. I like your quote, it's similar in meaning to mine. How do you feel about gold selling and websites that promote it?
1. You can solo doing crafting just fine. In fact, of all of the spheres, it is the one mostly meant for soloing. Much more information is out there and detail -- please take a look.
2. We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it.
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Brad McQuaid
CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
www.pantheonmmo.com
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Brad McQuaid
CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
www.pantheonmmo.com
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That's what's great about Vanguard -- our primary target audiience is the average gamer, the 'core' gamer. About 60% of our content is focused on that player, with another 20% for casual and another 20% for raiid.
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Brad McQuaid
CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
www.pantheonmmo.com
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Brad McQuaid
CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
www.pantheonmmo.com
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Brad McQuaid
CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
www.pantheonmmo.com
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Not really, remember all that about the "vision" dying?
Well apperently the Vision didn't die, it shambles on like a brain eating zombie, unchanged and unchanging...
I was in Beta, and let me tell you that Vanguard, Saga of Suckass isn't EQ2, its EQ1.5. I told them to shove it after MONTHS of emails only ever got me form letters and bullsh*t, it definatly was NOT my PC or networks fault... what a joke.
And that retard McSquid keep talking smack about Age of Conan, about how much farther along Vanguard is and blah blah blah... well sorry charlie, you could take another year and unless you scrap your gfx and start from scratch its still going to suck compared to AoC...
So if you are looking for another EQ/WoW style raidgrind=endgame game, Vanguard is for you... as for me and mine, we are looking for innovation.
If you were in beta, it was obviously very early on and you may not have understood that. The beta is now in phase 3 and has a lot of players playing all of the time, the majority of which are having a good time, and a better time hopefully each patch we make (and we patch often).
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Brad McQuaid
CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
www.pantheonmmo.com
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We're due out Q1 2007 and ask anyone who was at E3 which game was clearly farthest a long. I hope AoC is great, but let's also stick to reality
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Brad McQuaid
CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
www.pantheonmmo.com
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Why do you say that? Can you list a set of reasons why you think AoC is more mainstream and less niche than Vanguard?
thanks,
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Brad McQuaid
CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
www.pantheonmmo.com
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There is nothing innovative about Vanguard. Tell us what you think is 3rd generation regarding Vanguard. It's just another forced grouping/dependency, raiding offers best rewards game. Been there done that, 1st generation MMOG.
3 spheres of advancement, seamless world, ships, flying mounts not on rails, advanced combat system, etc. Please read http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/95513 for the details. Thanks.
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Brad McQuaid
CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
www.pantheonmmo.com
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I agree with you that death should be something to fear and would enjoy the difficulty settings of Vanguard if raiding and dependency was not the focus it will be. In EQ1 prior to Planes of Power, there was plenty of content for all playstyle choices including soloing. I could be a self sufficient soloing crafter in EQ1 prior to PoP but from what the lead dev crafting designer for Vanguard told me, that won't be the case in Vanguard. The emphasis on raiding and dependency is what I fear.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh
2. We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it.
I appreciate the responses but I am getting conflicting reports from you and your lead dev crafting designer, and it concerns me. Perhaps if I can beta Vanguard sufficiently before retail I will know the truth.
According to what he said previously on the Vanguard forums, some crafting materials will only drop from a mob if a "crafter", someone in crafting mode, is present in the group. This means that the "crafter" is dependent on another person who is in the standard "adventuring" mode to make the kill, while the "crafter" is basically just standing by idle. If this is the case, then crafting can not be a solo profession.
Also in order for crafting to be a solo profession, there can be no crafting materials limited to raid or group mobs or areas to be harvested within their domain which a soloer could not survive in. Think in terms of Planes of Power and you understand my meaning. Prior to PoP I was a self sufficent solo crafter in EQ1 and it was still difficult and challenging. Being dependent on others does not create challenge or dictate difficulty.
It would be false to suggest crafting to be soloable simply because you can max your skills via NPC work orders. The purpose of pursuing crafting is to be able to make all items that your chosen craft allows, especially the best ones, and if that can't be done solo, including harvesting those materials, then it is not soloable.
It's misleading to downplay raiding as only being 20% of the content, because raiding is the dominent content at the higher levels which leaves no alternatives to soloers and small group oriented players. At least that has been the case in most MMOGs that offered raiding.
The point is kinda mute though for me because:
A. I despise all pre order in-game advantage deals as they are unfair to retail customers who justifiably wait til NDAs are lifted and can possibly beta test and hear reviews about the game prior to spending money on it.
B. Your affiliation with SOE was not a good choice from a marketing perspective. SOE deserves all the criticism they get and it's sound judgement for gamers to avoid being burned again.
C. I am a gamer who commits to one MMOG at a time, and if I have to make a choice between Vanguard or Chronicles of Spellborn, depending on release dates, not having tested either game, I am choosing Chronicles of Spellborn.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh
Well, I am a grouper and I plan on corrupting as many soloers as possible to grouping. But once upon a time, I was mostly a soloer and I was looking forward to solo as much as possible, inside a MMO. So I will try to show you some valid reasons why a soloer would want a MMO that is focused about...soloing. (none of these points remove the possibility to have a nice grouping experience, althought it complexify it slightly)
1- Competition. Soloers can see what other soloers are doing, and thereby try to outdo them. It might mean nothing to you, but trust me, for peoples who are heavily focused on soloing, this matter a LOT. Having a soloing endgame would helps a LOT and make these soloers happy. Such endgame should have no impact on the grouping system and be unaffected by the grouping endgame...soloers would love it and work to be the best soloers, and that would be fine. If I want to be good at soloing, it is fine that the game request me to solo, if I don't do it, I don't deserve it...as long as it work the same way for grouping uberness.
1-A True soloing ethic. That is a point I am not sure I can convey or make you understand very well, but see, soloers have kinda an "honor system" on their own, even if you can't understand it. Yes, they would love a system that only by soloing you can progress furthermore. This might seem opposed to grouping, but it isn't...it just mean that you need more than only 1 overall system...see, asking someone information is not a true soloer...but giving this information is important...ah...this is sooo far. See, a soloing shaman that was walking with a griffon pet in EQ, it was something every soloer would respect...there is something, I am sorry if I can't convey the feeling that well, after all, I am a grouper myself, not really a soloer. See, for me there is no shame in talking and sharing a LOT of information, for a true soloer, asking for this information is kinda shameful...someone has to experience it, not ask for it...
2- Cooperation. Even if they solo in their little area, soloer can share information, directly, they may encounter other soloers in real time, doing the same stuff they do or a variation.
3- Sharing the same world, even if you solo, you ain't alone.
4- Soloers are available to grouping offers. They are not easy to convert, they may steer backward and move away, they may prefer soloing over some groups. But...they are available to be tamed into grouper. Maybe not by me, maybe not by you, but the right person at the right place can.
Soloing in a MMO can't be compared to soloing in a single player game. Maybe from YOUR point of view it is the same, but you are not a MMO-soloer, you just don't understand what these soloers understand. I am sure there are MANY other points, the fact I have issues to bring them just prove that I am more or less a soloer myself, not that they don't exist.
See, ideally, a MMO has 1 distinct endgame per gameplay, each endgame is unaffected by the others and doesn't affect them...so the best soloers are soloers...the best groupers are groupers...and so on with every major gameplay. Having 1 crushing system is exactly the opposing logic, but in the opposing logic you have to partake in every endgame or accept to be a weaker character...in a game nobody should have to willingly settle for a weakling status.
The Vision(tm) evolves from a raiding logic crushing all gameplays, to a generalist logic where someone have to do everything, which is slightly better, but not much. Especially that in vanguard, it isn't balanced, someone will spend a LOT more time raiding then doing anything else, this 20% items acquisition will take longer in time than all the 80% combined together...a complete lack of balance that will worsen with every new expansion...yet, the Vision(tm) evolves slightly...but it is at the opposing way now...it used to be a specialist minding (raiding) and it become a generalist thinking...but a generalist thinking doesn't work well in a game IMO, since players want to do what they like, not everything, thereby the generalist thinking is always doomed from the start, in a hobby.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Yikes man type much? The reason people want to solo in an MMO is because they want freedom. Do whatever you want in a game, that's what we want to do. Forcing people to do things they don't enjoy upsets people for obvious reasons. Plenty of MMO's allow soloing to a lage extent. I think that is why some people get so pissed at Vanguard: it's a great looking high production MMO that isn't being made for their play style.
It is however being made for mine. I'll be on the PVP server.