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The Purpose of this Forum

StraddenStradden Managing EditorHalifax, NSPosts: 6,696Member

Greetings one and all!

I wanted to write a quick note to explain, first, that the original wording for this forum might have been misleading. I have ammended it to be more inclusive of new and perspective players who are curious as to why so many people are angered over this particular game.

The reasoning behind the creation of our two new SWG forums was never to stifle anyone's opinions, but rather to give everyone a fair chance to express their views on this game. I realize that there are very strong feelings surrounding the sweeping changes that were made to this game, and we want to provide a place where people can discuss this issue. It has always been my intention to have this place be used as well by newcomers who are curious about gaining perspective on the events of this game's past, including the NGE and CU. I appologise if the original wording of the description for this forum was misleading, and hope that by adding to the description, I have cleared this up.

I hope that by providing these two seperate forums, these two distinct aspects and points of view on this game can both be heard so that everyone who has a voice, can be heard.

Jon Wood

*edit: I also wanted to clear up some confusion about the actual NAME of this forum.

From Dictionary.com, the word Refuge means:





1.

shelter or protection from danger, trouble, etc.: to take refuge from a storm.




2.a place of shelter, protection, or safety.




3.anything to which one has recourse for aid, relief, or escape.

I chose that name due to the controversey that is caused around people posting opinions about the changes. I thought that it was an appropriate for a forum dedicated to this particular subject.

Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com

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Comments

  • Wildcat84Wildcat84 Ashland, KYPosts: 2,304Member
    Fair enough.

    The fact that SWG alone among ALL MMO's ever has caused this to happen (and a we hate SOE thread in the forum of every SOE related game) just underscores that there is a REASON why the Exiles exist.

    We had our game STOLEN from us.  Without apology.  Without adequate explanation.  And without purpose (as the sub levels have fallen drastically since the CUNGE).

    We have one purpose:  We want our game back.  Then and only then will we be happy.



  • bigherbbigherb Wahoo, NEPosts: 76Member
    By definition, wouldn't the other forum be the "refuge"?

  • MX13MX13 Chicago, ILPosts: 2,489Member

    I think we were all pretty clear, but thank you. We've already had some good conversations between Current & Former players here, not to mention a bit of fun...

    As long as you don't stifle the Refugee's thoughts, I don't think we'll have any problems here.

    I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!

    In fact, forget the SWG!!!!

    image
    image
    image

  • TheSliderTheSlider Anywhere, TXPosts: 46Member


    Originally posted by Stradden

    Greetings one and all!

    I wanted to write a quick note to explain, first, that the original wording for this forum might have been misleading. I have ammended it to be more inclusive of new and perspective players who are curious as to why so many people are angered over this particular game.

    The reasoning behind the creation of our two new SWG forums was never to stifle anyone's opinions, but rather to give everyone a fair chance to express their views on this game. I realize that there are very strong feelings surrounding the sweeping changes that were made to this game, and we want to provide a place where people can discuss this issue. It has always been my intention to have this place be used as well by newcomers who are curious about gaining perspective on the events of this game's past, including the NGE and CU. I appologise if the original wording of the description for this forum was misleading, and hope that by adding to the description, I have cleared this up.

    I hope that by providing these two seperate forums, these two distinct aspects and points of view on this game can both be heard so that everyone who has a voice, can be heard.

    Jon Wood

    *edit: I also wanted to clear up some confusion about the actual NAME of this forum.
    From Dictionary.com, the word Refuge means:




    1.
    shelter or protection from danger, trouble, etc.: to take refuge from a storm.



    2.
    a place of shelter, protection, or safety.



    3.
    anything to which one has recourse for aid, relief, or escape.
    I chose that name due to the controversey that is caused around people posting opinions about the changes. I thought that it was an appropriate for a forum dedicated to this particular subject.


    Come on... Are you sure you're not an alter ego of Torres, Smed, or someone else from $OE?

    The ONLY reason this forum was split is because SWG:Complete is going to be released soon, and since this site will probably carry quite a few ads for it, you wanted to call as little attention as possible to these forums and us disgruntled vets so $OE can sell more boxes and introduce more people to their broken game.

    I saw MMORPG did an interview with those thieves at $OE about a month ago. I think you asked every softball question you could think of. Why didn't you ask them about classic servers and why their "talented developers" can't code it? 

     Why didn't you ask them about  the "bait and switch" tactic they used with ToOW and if they have recovered from that black eye yet? 

    As a self employed IT consultant, I can say with great joy that since 11/16/05 I have kept ~2 million+ dollars out of the hands of Sony Corporation by way of telling every purchasing director I come into contact with to avoid buying anything Sony like the plague. They do so, and they're much happier for doing it. I can only imagine how many other like myself have done the same thing..

    It looks like I'll have to do the same for this site. I've already removed the bookmark for MMORPG.com from my favorites and this will quite possibly be my last post. Way to go breaking up your community!

    True to $OE form... Kudos!!

  • ShaydeShayde Cape Coral, FLPosts: 4,529Member
    Refuge is actually very appropriate.

    Since $OE kicked us out on our ear, here's a place for us to go.

    Viva La Revolucion'


    Shayde - SWG (dead)
    Proud member of the Cabal.
    image

    imageimage
    It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled :( - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me.
    I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
    09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0

  • kymekyme Portland, MEPosts: 411Member
    My new home
  • IvannatinkleIvannatinkle Here, DCPosts: 109Member


    Originally posted by TheSlider

    Originally posted by Stradden


    Come on... Are you sure you're not an alter ego of Torres, Smed, or someone else from $OE?

    The ONLY reason this forum was split is because SWG:Complete is going to be released soon, and since this site will probably carry quite a few ads for it, you wanted to call as little attention as possible to these forums and us disgruntled vets so $OE can sell more boxes and introduce more people to their broken game.

    I saw MMORPG did an interview with those thieves at $OE about a month ago. I think you asked every softball question you could think of. Why didn't you ask them about classic servers and why their "talented developers" can't code it? 

     Why didn't you ask them about  the "bait and switch" tactic they used with ToOW and if they have recovered from that black eye yet? 

    As a self employed IT consultant, I can say with great joy that since 11/16/05 I have kept ~2 million+ dollars out of the hands of Sony Corporation by way of telling every purchasing director I come into contact with to avoid buying anything Sony like the plague. They do so, and they're much happier for doing it. I can only imagine how many other like myself have done the same thing..

    It looks like I'll have to do the same for this site. I've already removed the bookmark for MMORPG.com from my favorites and this will quite possibly be my last post. Way to go breaking up your community!

    True to $OE form... Kudos!!


    Don't forget your tinfoil hat on the way out. What a moronic post
  • TheSliderTheSlider Anywhere, TXPosts: 46Member


    Originally posted by Ivannatinkle

    Originally posted by TheSlider

    Originally posted by Stradden


    Come on... Are you sure you're not an alter ego of Torres, Smed, or someone else from $OE?

    The ONLY reason this forum was split is because SWG:Complete is going to be released soon, and since this site will probably carry quite a few ads for it, you wanted to call as little attention as possible to these forums and us disgruntled vets so $OE can sell more boxes and introduce more people to their broken game.

    I saw MMORPG did an interview with those thieves at $OE about a month ago. I think you asked every softball question you could think of. Why didn't you ask them about classic servers and why their "talented developers" can't code it? 

     Why didn't you ask them about  the "bait and switch" tactic they used with ToOW and if they have recovered from that black eye yet? 

    As a self employed IT consultant, I can say with great joy that since 11/16/05 I have kept ~2 million+ dollars out of the hands of Sony Corporation by way of telling every purchasing director I come into contact with to avoid buying anything Sony like the plague. They do so, and they're much happier for doing it. I can only imagine how many other like myself have done the same thing..

    It looks like I'll have to do the same for this site. I've already removed the bookmark for MMORPG.com from my favorites and this will quite possibly be my last post. Way to go breaking up your community!

    True to $OE form... Kudos!!


    Don't forget your tinfoil hat on the way out. What a moronic post


    And you're not a moron? I mean, come on, really...

    At least I don't have some gay-looking red-headed cartoon chick as my forum avatar...

  • hargravehargrave oceanside, CTPosts: 329Member

    More like prison is the better term lets shove all the free speechers and NGE haters who tell it like is into there own forum and give obraik and pirrg there own forum to spread propaganda which is where 99% of the flaming came from is those 2. Theres 9 bleeping forums already 9 and they werent used either for what they were now these are supose to magically work lol wtf?

    image

    We're sitting in our offices thinking of ways to upset our paying customers. I think were on track to meet that goal.

    John Smedley

  • IvannatinkleIvannatinkle Here, DCPosts: 109Member

    Don't forget your tinfoil hat on the way out. What a moronic post


    And you're not a moron? I mean, come on, really...

    At least I don't have some gay-looking red-headed cartoon chick as my forum avatar...


    Snappy comeback. Please, don't hurt me no more

    /sarcasm off

    Oh, and I called your post moronic, which it was. Not you. But, maybe it goes a little deeper than just your post? Otherwise, no need to get so offended
  • kimosabekimosabe Lincoln, NEPosts: 516Member


    Originally posted by hargrave

    More like prison is the better term lets shove all the free speechers and NGE haters who tell it like is into there own forum and give obraik and pirrg there own forum to spread propaganda which is where 99% of the flaming came from is those 2. Theres 9 bleeping forums already 9 and they werent used either for what they were now these are supose to magically work lol wtf?


    I completely agree with your post here hargrave, well minus the mention of prison. Obraik and Pirrg are the source of most of the animosity. Now they have their own forum, but they still must use ours too. I'd hate to report him [obraik] for something so minor as intruding in the refugee board, but it gets on my nerves that he can't leave the true refugees alone and keep the boards separate. Otherwise, if he insists on intruding like he does, why have the boards separate in the first place?

    Je mettrai l'amour sur dos de moi.

  • jandrsnjandrsn Minneapolis, MNPosts: 187Member

    Maybe slider has a point? 

    Really, why do we need a refuge?  I don't need to hide from anything, nor am I threatened by any means from the NGE, sony, or it's fans.  Are the pre-cu people that similar to brainless antelopes in some national park?The NGE'rs might need refuge from the vast bulk of posters here and our comments, but why seperate the vets who miss pre-cu into our own 'refuge'?  Makes no sense any way I look at it. 

    But I digress...

    Let's say the New England Journal of medicine started putting Vioxx reviews in tiny print in the back of it's pages, and started taking ads from Pfizer?  Or Scientific American extolling the benefits of an oil-driven economy, and three pages later had an Exxon ad?

    Sony is a player in the online game industry.  All debate over the quality of the games aside, they offer a large selection of games in their access pass.  They have money and clout.  They have several games in the works, and would probably want to at least offer something here, be it ads, free betas, whatever. 

    MMORPG.com is a respected site; several games have had devs post here, or on their own forums when they sense the tide of opinion is starting to flow against them.  I can't say it's the gold standard for this type of website, but it is popular with many people from all walks of life, and I haven't seen any site that has enough of that certain something to draw me away from here. 

    Anyways, shortly after letting Sony have one those canned 'you tell me what to ask you' interviews we all know enough to ignore, they then try to seperate the vocal vets from the SWG forum most people would go to the first time here.  Intresting.

    If I start seeing Sony ads here, I'll call shenanigans.  I'm sure I won't be the only one.  Now, far be it from me to expect a private business to bend to the will of the masses.  This is a free market after all, and they can do what they please at the end of the day.  But really, it leaves an odd taste in my mouth.

    Free markets need free thinking consumers after all; some will have 'tinfoil hats' as you put it, but not everyone who finds this new setup odd are conspiracy buffs.  Some of us have learned that sometimes money can trump integrity, and take things with a grain of salt.

  • xxthecorexxxxthecorexx Bridgewater, NJPosts: 1,078Member
    thanks for hosting us.

    i see it as you could have easily dumped us on our sweet asses as well, but you took the time, and provided a place for us. i truly respect that. you understand our plight and the need for us to "be" somewhere.

    /tiphat mmorgp.


    ____________________________
    TheCore

  • SODAofBRIASODAofBRIA Cape Girardeau, MOPosts: 351Member

    I for one would like to welcome our new overlords!

    Love, Sodapop

  • KzinKillerKzinKiller Seattle, WAPosts: 625Member
    The reasoning behind the creation of our two new SWG forums was never
    to stifle anyone's opinions, but rather to give everyone a fair chance
    to express their views on this game.


    "General Discussion' fulfills that mission.  This only accomplishes compartmentalization, making anyone looking for a discussion of these issues hunt for them.  Obfuscation achieves only ONE purpose:  preventing the spread of information.

    So, you have aided SOE in their quest to prevent the spread of accurate information about their product, with no benefit whatsoever to your readers.  You'll forgive me for not congratulating you on that one.  Bad show all around, Really Bad Idea.


    image

  • RavenStJRavenStJ saskatoon, SKPosts: 309Member
    wow a place to hide and rest...

  • TaucetiTauceti MB, ALPosts: 168Member

    Hi,

    I just thought I'd throw out my views on what you have done here, in order to maybe help put some things in prospective.

    1. I'm concerned that all this will do is promote group think which is probably the most dangerous threat to intellectual freedom. I understand the desire to have a place where players who enjoy the NGE [or the pre-CU SWG] would like to come to discuss there thoughts and get help. However it really doesn't help if people can't challenge other views.

    2. I understand that your trying to create a place where people can come to discuss their views of the game, but keep in mind the reason many of your (former SWG) member come here is because it has been a place where Veterans and the disenfranchised can get their voice and fustration out since they are not allowed to post anything opposing the NGE on the official SOE forums, or few other places.

    3. It obvious you have alienated some of your members because of this. This particular action also contibutes to the belief by some that some of your journalist / news writers don't challenge SOE enough on what SOE did to SWG and its customers. It makes it appear that your less indpendent.

    4. If you're desire is to be fair and to create a place where members can have a independent place to discuss their views; I'm curious as to how come you haven't been willing to be equally fair and have 2 separate rating of this game [Pre-CU and NGE, allowing all to vote on each version of the game]. I think this would go a long way it making it fair and honest, and show what many players / customers feel about this game.

    Anyhow, I do thank you for showing an interest in trying to be fair here. I'm just not sure I agree with how you went about it.

    IMO,

    Tauceti

  • azhrarnazhrarn Freehold, NJPosts: 817Member


    Originally posted by TheSlider Come on... Are you sure you're not an alter ego of Torres, Smed, or someone else from $OE?

    The ONLY reason this forum was split is because SWG:Complete is going to be released soon, and since this site will probably carry quite a few ads for it, you wanted to call as little attention as possible to these forums and us disgruntled vets so $OE can sell more boxes and introduce more people to their broken game.

    I saw MMORPG did an interview with those thieves at $OE about a month ago. I think you asked every softball question you could think of. Why didn't you ask them about classic servers and why their "talented developers" can't code it? 

     Why didn't you ask them about  the "bait and switch" tactic they used with ToOW and if they have recovered from that black eye yet? 

    As a self employed IT consultant, I can say with great joy that since 11/16/05 I have kept ~2 million+ dollars out of the hands of Sony Corporation by way of telling every purchasing director I come into contact with to avoid buying anything Sony like the plague. They do so, and they're much happier for doing it. I can only imagine how many other like myself have done the same thing..

    It looks like I'll have to do the same for this site. I've already removed the bookmark for MMORPG.com from my favorites and this will quite possibly be my last post. Way to go breaking up your community!

    True to $OE form... Kudos!!


    Uhhh... bye bye.  Wow.  One less idiot, I guess.  Personally I like the new forum.

    _______________________
    Kote lo'shebs'ul narit
    image

  • iskareotiskareot Crown Point, INPosts: 2,143Member


    Originally posted by Tauceti

    Hi,
    I just thought I'd throw out my views on what you have done here, in order to maybe help put some things in prospective.
    1. I'm concerned that all this will do is promote group think which is probably the most dangerous threat to intellectual freedom. I understand the desire to have a place where players who enjoy the NGE [or the pre-CU SWG] would like to come to discuss there thoughts and get help. However it really doesn't help if people can't challenge other views.
    2. I understand that your trying to create a place where people can come to discuss their views of the game, but keep in mind the reason many of your (former SWG) member come here is because it has been a place where Veterans and the disenfranchised can get their voice and fustration out since they are not allowed to post anything opposing the NGE on the official SOE forums, or few other places.
    3. It obvious you have alienated some of your members because of this. This particular action also contibutes to the belief by some that some of your journalist / news writers don't challenge SOE enough on what SOE did to SWG and its customers. It makes it appear that your less indpendent.
    4. If you're desire is to be fair and to create a place where members can have a independent place to discuss their views; I'm curious as to how come you haven't been willing to be equally fair and have 2 separate rating of this game [Pre-CU and NGE, allowing all to vote on each version of the game]. I think this would go a long way it making it fair and honest, and show what many players / customers feel about this game.
    Anyhow, I do thank you for showing an interest in trying to be fair here. I'm just not sure I agree with how you went about it.

    IMO,
    Tauceti


    Well said, also wise.    However, I think this was done due to being the "lesser" of two evil ideas.

    One, they could have been like SOE and just banned any bad thing sad about the game.   BUT that would not be like them, they are not like that and emjoy debates, voices and insight from the real players or players that were.

    I also think they are trying to "Help" ease some of the issues with the new guys or NGE supporters have a place to post whatever it is they do without us shoving a fact in thier face or quote etc..  I think at this stage it was for the best.

    As for challenging SOE, well let me tell you somthing.   SO FAR not one interview other then direct emails with this company) has been non-scripted.   LEC is involved in that the second the word "Press" gets involved.

    I can tell you that with MMORPG we have got our freedom back, we got our voices back so for that we should thank them.   SOE knows we are here, they know we post and trust me when I say some of them read what we say here.    I am glad they did this, I am glad they may inform one more person that had no clue about this game and product.   If anything, one person may learn and add to what he has seen and or after he plays it might make a comment on it.

    I think the STAFF here has said enough or done enough to support people from SWG.. In ways due to business you cannot expect them to go after SOE or even make to heavy a comment about them.   Deep pockets always wins, even with free press, nothing is exactly free.

    I do think that people should let the game speak for itself, use quotes from the makers, producers, president and gaming reviews, awards and more fact then opinion.   THIS WAY they have a chance to then make thier own call on things.

    Sure we can still have passion about the game, but at this stage I do not need to use that to show where this game stands or what it has done or is about.  

    ______________________________
    I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
    SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
    Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1

  • ScarisScaris Arlington, VAPosts: 5,332Member


    Originally posted by TheSlider
    Come on... Are you sure you're not an alter ego of Torres, Smed, or someone else from $OE?
    The ONLY reason this forum was split is because SWG:Complete is going to be released soon, and since this site will probably carry quite a few ads for it, you wanted to call as little attention as possible to these forums and us disgruntled vets so $OE can sell more boxes and introduce more people to their broken game.
    I saw MMORPG did an interview with those thieves at $OE about a month ago. I think you asked every softball question you could think of. Why didn't you ask them about classic servers and why their "talented developers" can't code it? 
     Why didn't you ask them about  the "bait and switch" tactic they used with ToOW and if they have recovered from that black eye yet? 
    As a self employed IT consultant, I can say with great joy that since 11/16/05 I have kept ~2 million+ dollars out of the hands of Sony Corporation by way of telling every purchasing director I come into contact with to avoid buying anything Sony like the plague. They do so, and they're much happier for doing it. I can only imagine how many other like myself have done the same thing..
    It looks like I'll have to do the same for this site. I've already removed the bookmark for MMORPG.com from my favorites and this will quite possibly be my last post. Way to go breaking up your community!
    True to $OE form... Kudos!!

    And you came up with all this because of all the advertising SOE has done here before?

    This place has put out some articles that have flat out put SOE and LEC to the wall for what they have done to SWG. Yet you in your infinite wisdom and a few days here have cooked up this scheme? You have no grounds for your point and there has been no presidence set to qualify it.

    Your spin seems to be what is true to SOE form.

    - Scaris

    "What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World

  • duct_tapeduct_tape Kingsport, TNPosts: 34Member

    I too feel the pain of having my favorite game stolen from me.  The Combat Upgrade changes made it the game I loved to hate... but I still loved my Star Wars setting and my fellow Star Wars gamers.  But the NGE changes... I tried to make it work for a few weeks.  But with my favorite profession removed, I could not adjust.

    My favorite profession was Creature Handler now removed from the game entirely. I had 2 accounts and between those two toons I had mastered 14 professions and had earned the right to unlock Jedi with one.  But I never really was interested in Jedi enough to make it my main character.   

    My former guild now is splintered, shattered, shell-shocked and floating between a half a dozen other games trying to find a 'fit'.  We have tried CoH/V, EQ2, WoW... and a few others.  So far no game fills the void that a Star Wars fan like I had with SWG.  It is now just a glorified chat room with a first person shooteresq feel outside the cities.

    Of the other games I tried I have truely gotten a kick out of CoH.  But it gets on ones nerves after a few short months, plus no player crafting hurts.  EQ2 had a most beautiful look.  WoW has the same clean cartooney feel of CoH but everyone looks the same at the higher levels and its... well.. kind of mindless to me.

    But I will whine... cry and pout to no avail.  I no longer have the time to game that I had in the past.  And I for sure no longer  have the patience to develop 2 characters for 2 and a half years only to have them yanked into a system designed to appeal to the pre-teen crowd.  

    I will say what I will about the demise of SWG.  This is just my point of view and my opinion.  My guild and I tried to make the game work for us, thru all changes SOE thought needed to balance the game for vets and new players.  My guild, my friends, my worthy opponents and I worked around things that simple game mechanics made imposssible (i.e. no criminal/underworld faction).  Threw in a little RP to smooth over quirks, development loose ends, story line deviation and the inevitable unbalances.  But the NGE was something none of us could work around.  And apparently many many other fellow gamers could not work around.

    But I will try other games.  To end my comments I would like to say this... to a true Star Wars fan like myself... Star Trek is blasphmey... but I really find myself drawn to the idea of Star Trek Online... damn you SOE.   Maybe the life in Star Trek Online will help put a band-aid on my open wound SOE gave me.  I know I would like it if Blizzard ever did World of Starcraft.  I have to remind myself that its just a game.  No one died... it was just a game.

    DUCT

    status... SWG refugee

    IF YOU KEEP LOOKING AT ME YOU'LL SEE ME KILL YOU

  • dookseiddookseid Tulsa, OKPosts: 282Member

    I just had to get the duct tape off the screen.   Darn stuff had been stuck there for nearly a month...image

     

     

    Sorry Mr. Tape.

  • HelleeHellee Edmonton, ABPosts: 4Member
    Huh? Don't understand this thread but SWG was a game I once loved. All good things must come to an end I suppose, but the changes came much too soon and were too drastic.
  • jrscottjrscott Atlanta, GAPosts: 1,252Member

    Originally posted by Hellee
    Huh? Don't understand this thread but SWG was a game I once loved. All good things must come to an end I suppose, but the changes came much too soon and were too drastic.
    Hellee from Shadowfire?  Howdy from Bradius.


    I realize I said I quit. I never said it was forever :)

  • CemoaCemoa Willoughby, OHPosts: 41Member

    This forum needs to be removed.

    All it is is people bashing SWG developers for reasons unknown. In NO way is this helping new players find the source of the anger from the NGE. I have seen NO posts regarding reasons why people have quit the NGE besides "$oe is a worthless piece of crap and the NGE is horrible". What? Huh? Oh, sorry, I was too busy looking for the point. The people here cannot move on and all this forum is doing is encouraging them to spread their worthless and horribly misinterpreted information.

    It deserves to be removed.

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