Actually, we discussed this at some length and he even triple checked the numbers for us. What else can we do? Just proclaim it a lie with no proof? If you do not believe them, that's totally your choice, we're just telling you what they said.
Unfotunately, at this time, there is no way to indepedently varify statements like that with any degree of accuracy. All we can do is report back what they tell us.
I think you are selling yourselves, this site, and your position as journalists too short, Dana.
What I gather from reading the responses here is that people who would like to depend on this site as a place to get accurate and informative news on MMORPGs is that they would not just like you to report verbatim what the company PR person (or anyone from that company) tells you, but that they would also like to see some follow-up to both help verify or discredit what was said. Doing so, of course, involves a heck of a lot more work than a simple breakfast meeting.
If Blizzard met you for a breakfast meeting, and commented that at the moment they only had two total subscribers for WOW, would you report that statement here without comment or scrutiny (aside from asking them thrice again), as you did SOE's claim about SWG? To be sure, without an easy manner to verify the veracity of the claim (and as you have stated, SONY does it's best to make it as difficult as possible to do so by not releasing the numbers) then the claim is worthless as verifiable news and probably should not have been mentioned. They could have told you, literally, anything at that breakfast. Would you then have reported and published anything that they said without fact checking? This question is even more important given SOE's public track record of lying to their customers.
Where do you draw the line between "reporting" and being used as a non-paid PR source? To me, the line lies somewhere near the point where the facts pertaining to the claims can be checked for their accuracy. No facts to back up your statement? Sorry SOE, no reporting of your claims. We'll grab an Egg McMuffin on the way to the convention, thanks.
I hope you all take the feedback here to heart, and not dismiss it as simply some ex-SWG players ranting against SOE (I've never played SWG, FWIW and am a rabid fan of EQII). This whole issue has become much more than that. Your customers are telling you that as time goes on they are depending on you more and more for real insight and in-depth reporting on what goes on in the MMORPG business, and that they are bright and intelligent enough to dismiss the fluff and bluster that comes from a business press release, even if it is over pancakes.
For my part, I think you guys do a heck of a good job, and I enjoy reading here. But don't fool yourselves, this site is maturing, and its customer base is maturing with it. As such, we will begin to demand more of you as journalists as we become more and more cynical after such fiascos as SWG, DnL and others.
The question is whether you guys will take the easy road and stick with reporting simply what was said/released as you have done in this article, or will you also put the effort into determining the truth, representing your customer's interests, rejecting the fluff and subsequently rise above the rest of the similar venues out there.
Originally posted by jrscott Originally posted by Maddthwips
[sarcasm]oh, im sorry, ur right, SOE is the worst company on the planet. they are liars and should be hated by all.[/sarcasm] I don't think that was the issue at hand. You were saying SOE did not lie. Now you are saying they lie but everybody else does. Pick an argument please. sorry, but im not gonna see ur way of things. There's a real surprise. what company doesnt lie in reality? The one I own half of for one. An example would be when a customer finds a bug and asks me if I tested the software before I installed it. My answer is not spin. I state, "I did testing and obviously it was not sufficient to catch this particular issue. Either I did not test this feature, or I simply misinterpreted the results of that test." I have happy customers as a result and don't fear losing them. We get great word of mouth. It's an amazing concept really, one that like you said, is not followed much. But the fact not many companies tell the truth is not an excuse for some of the horrendous lies SOE has spewed forth. u dont know what happened behind the scenes to make them change what they did. maybe LA told them to do it. do u not remember that it was LA that pushed SOE to release SWG before it was ready? at least thats what i heard. That's what I heard = hearsay. Assumption. And totally irrelevant. A lie is a lie, plain and simple, no matter what your motive is. Even if LA told them to release before ready, they still had the option to do the right thing: Tell them no. LA would have a hard time pulling a signed legal agreement because SOE insisted on doing something ethically, and it would squarely put the finger of blame on them instead of SOE. They'd never have killed the game off because SOE said "no" to an artifical deadline. Too much money and corporate image would be lost. But SOE has neither balls or ethics so this did not occur. The problem is there are too many evil cowards in business not willing to behave ethically. my thought on this is u guys dont play the game anymore, so why do u care? u want to advertise to other ppl who are thinking about playing it, to not play it? u want to be reassured by other ppl who feel the same way as u do? u like to rant about crap? I played the game until they told me in no uncertain terms that I was no longer a wanted customer. When a customer tells you why they are dissatisifed in a polite manner while following the rules you posted and you tell them to "shut up" (which is what a forum ban amounts to), you deserve all the hatred SOE is getting. There are posters on forums that want to know others' opinions on the game, good or bad. They deserve the very answers they ask for, not filtered by rose colored SOE Fanboi glasses. the bottom line is, i have never had an issue will SOE personally, in fact i sent out a petition in EQ2 the other day, and was replied to immediately. I have had good and bad experiences with their customer service myself. I'm happy you have never experienced the bad or stupid side of SOE. Be patient though, ask for help enough times and you will experience the worst. Have faith.
If you're happy with the game, I for one am very happy for you. But please, do not come on here making statements that SOE doesn't lie and don't ask people like me to shut up because you do not like what we have to say. Everything you have said is from your perspective and disproves nothing. "I have never had an issue with SOE personally" does not change what has happened to HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of others. Choose to believe them or not, but you go too far in calling them Liars just because you have not experienced the evil of SOE.
Please enjoy your game and ignore us.
see the problem here is im the minority. i chose to go on the pro-SOE front, but i doubt many others will join me. i chose to to post my opinions against the opinions of others on this forum, and i knew i would be a huge target for the backlash. why did i do it? not sure really, was kinda bored and went with it. ur right, i didnt play SWG for very long after release ( mainly because im not too much of a fan of Star Wars, and couldnt get into it) so i dont know the full exp of the game before the NGE went through, i did reinstall the game after NGE went through, and still found it to be boring. (though flying in space was a cool idea) yea, it was wrong of me to call u guys liars, and im sorry for that. but why do u guys still care? why is bashing SOE such a huge topic? my answer: working in retail has made me realize that ppl will write, e-mail or post bad things 10X more, than they would something good. so i dont take what ppl rant about too seriously. for every 10 ppl that post bad things there are probably 10 ppl that can post good things but wont. if SOE says there numbers are increasing, good for them. the game cant be doing too bad, if its still around.
i know this is asking much, but do u have links to posts or media where SOE's lies were made clear? let me see where ur coming from and not just "hearsay" from u guys.
and jrscott, which company do u work for? just curious.
also, u ask me not to tell u guys to "shut up", but because i have a difference in opinion then u guys, u tell me to "shut up". this forum is to discuss the topic at hand, and all im seeing is rants about how crappy SWG and SOE is, so why cant i post on how good i think SOE is doing and what i dont agree with on ur posts? u guys love to post against what im saying. opinions are like @$$holes, everyone has one.
ur right, i didnt play SWG for very long after release ( mainly because im not too much of a fan of Star Wars, and couldnt get into it) so i dont know the full exp of the game before the NGE went through, i did reinstall the game after NGE went through, and still found it to be boring. (though flying in space was a cool idea) So you admit right here that you dont have any idea what you're talking about. You're just seeking attention by posting something you know is going to get flamed. I hope you got what you wanted.
ur right, i didnt play SWG for very long after release ( mainly because im not too much of a fan of Star Wars, and couldnt get into it) so i dont know the full exp of the game before the NGE went through, i did reinstall the game after NGE went through, and still found it to be boring. (though flying in space was a cool idea) So you admit right here that you dont have any idea what you're talking about. You're just seeking attention by posting something you know is going to get flamed. I hope you got what you wanted.
wow, ur an idiot, DumbDogofBria, the topic isnt only about SWG. most of what i wrote had to do with SOE. go ahead, get mad some more, i laugh at ur dumb posts. ive already said that i dont play SWG. go ahead and look. u just proved what i said in my first post of this topic. thanx
Originally posted by Maddthwips Originally posted by BigDogofBria
ur right, i didnt play SWG for very long after release ( mainly because im not too much of a fan of Star Wars, and couldnt get into it) so i dont know the full exp of the game before the NGE went through, i did reinstall the game after NGE went through, and still found it to be boring. (though flying in space was a cool idea) So you admit right here that you dont have any idea what you're talking about. You're just seeking attention by posting something you know is going to get flamed. I hope you got what you wanted.
wow, ur an idiot, DumbDogofBria, the topic isnt only about SWG. most of what i wrote had to do with SOE. go ahead, get mad some more, i laugh at ur dumb posts. ive already said that i dont play SWG. go ahead and look. u just proved what i said in my first post of this topic. thanx
How exactly did I prove what you said in your first post in this thread? Because I just re-read your first post and I don't see where you said A, you didn't play swg very much at all or B, You're just looking for attention. Because that's all I just said.
Dana and I agreed that we would start off with what was still the most controversial move in MMOG history, the Star Wars Galaxies NGE.
"In late winter through early spring, SWG was one of SOE's biggest gainers in terms of new players to a live game, coming through both the trials and through new software purchases,” said Chris Kramer, Director of Corporate Communications.
“We’ve had great responses from the players. The last two patches were player initiated bug fixes and lingering issues. The Expertise system is going in and has been well received,” added Jason Ryan, the Events Manager for SWG."
Ok. Let's give you the benefit of the doubt here based on where you seem to be a lot more interested in access and advertising dollars than doing your reader base a service. I suppose your customers are actually the MMOG companies, not people who aren't paying for this. It's a tough business model.
However, let me show you how you could have possibly retained some more of those people and perhaps retained a bit of integrity in the process.
You start by stating that the NGE was the most controversial change in MMOG history. You don't follow up on this. You don't ask 'how do the numbers look of players before and after?' You don't ask 'so how does the player acquisition cost figure into that?' given the massive advertising that went into play over the last several months.
You simply move on to the breakfast. No good, unless you're just interested in PR. Yum!
Then there's the editorial work. There were a lot of ways to communicate that you were skeptical about the claim about new players...how about 'claiming' instead of 'stating'. They didn't show up in the article, just the thread. Very weak.
I honestly am not paying any attention to articles on SOE anymore from this site. You've gone from news release coverage to PR.
I hope other MMOG companies don't get the same treatment, otherwise, while I may not be paying directly, you just lost a few clickthroughs from me.
(oh, and in fairness and full disclosure...I quit SWG loooong before the NGE, so I'm not bitter over that. Just an ex-player who wanted to see if it might be worth coming back, period. This article didn't do anything to help me make that decision, so shame on you.)
Originally posted by BigDogofBria Originally posted by Maddthwips Originally posted by BigDogofBria
ur right, i didnt play SWG for very long after release ( mainly because im not too much of a fan of Star Wars, and couldnt get into it) so i dont know the full exp of the game before the NGE went through, i did reinstall the game after NGE went through, and still found it to be boring. (though flying in space was a cool idea) So you admit right here that you dont have any idea what you're talking about. You're just seeking attention by posting something you know is going to get flamed. I hope you got what you wanted.
wow, ur an idiot, DumbDogofBria, the topic isnt only about SWG. most of what i wrote had to do with SOE. go ahead, get mad some more, i laugh at ur dumb posts. ive already said that i dont play SWG. go ahead and look. u just proved what i said in my first post of this topic. thanx
How exactly did I prove what you said in your first post in this thread? Because I just re-read your first post and I don't see where you said A, you didn't play swg very much at all or B, You're just looking for attention. Because that's all I just said.
PS: Sentances begin with capital letters.
thanx for the lesson. me not using capitals is not really a big deal. now ur just trying ur hardest to find something to attack me with, but u failed. as for the rest, my first post didnt say i dont play SWG, i never said it did, i said ive already said it before. what i was referring to is that u are an idiot, and u definately proved me to be right there. come on, man, where is this stone cold logic?
Originally posted by Maddthwips thanx for the lesson. me not using capitals is not really a big deal. now ur just trying ur hardest to find something to attack me with, but u failed. as for the rest, my first post didnt say i dont play SWG, i never said it did, i said ive already said it before. what i was referring to is that u are an idiot, and u definately proved me to be right there. come on, man, where is this stone cold logic?
You got me man. Reading any post of yours, let alone taking them seriously and responding, makes me a pretty big idiot. It won't happen again.
Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw "In late winter through early spring, SWG was one of SOE's biggest gainers in terms of new players to a live game, coming through both the trials and through new software purchases,” said Chris Kramer, Director of Corporate Communications. That's it? You never bothered to push him any further than that? He should have been made to define the term 'biggest gainer'. “Players have been very upbeat on the forums and the questions are mostly about the future and what the game is about moving forward,” added Alan Crosby, Director of Community Relations." As a journalist, and especially one who is supposedly up on this genre, it would be easy enough for you to go to the SWG forums yourself to verify this before printing this garbage spin. Why are players so concerned with the future? Could it be they are worried there isn't one? It's plain to see if you visit the forums. 'Interviews' like this can not be considered journalism, just more marketing spin. And all it took was a free trip to IHOP?
It is true the journalist could have questioned them to define certain terms, but you're forgetting something... An interview is NOT AN INVESTIGATION. You REPORT THE EXACT WORDS of someone in an INTERVIEW, it is not his JOB to verify the information to see if someone is lieing, that is our job, it is the medias job to let us know what was SAID, it is NOT their job to take someone to trial. A true reporter needs to be agnostic, needs to report things without their own opinions thrown in there, and this is what the journalist has done. Granted, I agree they could have proded further for clarification, but you do not have the right to get angry at the journalist because they are doing their job, and that is to report the entirety of the interview so the public can take the information and investigate into it for themselves.
For those of you who have never done any sort of interview process for schooling may not understand it, if it's for research than yes you can go back and look things up to prove a thesis, but if it's simply to share with the public what a company is saying, than that is exacly what the journalist is to do, report what is said, not what is found. That would be an INVESTIGATING story not a simple interview.
You can't yell at the messanger for the lies and mistakes of the sender, they are the middle man, they bring to you the message and you investigate.
yeah it probably did grow in the time period they mention, probably from offering the 30 day free trial more than anything.... what they fail to tell you is that in the preceeding 2 or 3 months to that they lost about half of their subscribers due to nge. They are very careful not to release numbers becuase they know they would reveal this truth...
Im still seething about the way they marketed the mustophar expansion, which i bought purely for the creature handler ring, only to find they had taken the profession out of the game entirely. Like countless others I even gave a month of my time beta testing it for them, when they knew it was utterly pointless.They were still pushing the advertising bull for the ring upto the time they annouced ch was being taken out to get yet more money! Granted they offered a refund in due course, but only after a few customers threatened to sue over fraudulent advertising. I still cant believe they got away with it, there needs to be some kind of standards agency in place to stop big companies doing this becuase its absolutely disgraceful. All this spin is getting way out of hand these days, some common sense needs to be applied to the laws regarding this because it will only get worse if nothing is done.
Originally posted by JonathJCen Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw "In late winter through early spring, SWG was one of SOE's biggest gainers in terms of new players to a live game, coming through both the trials and through new software purchases,” said Chris Kramer, Director of Corporate Communications. That's it? You never bothered to push him any further than that? He should have been made to define the term 'biggest gainer'. “Players have been very upbeat on the forums and the questions are mostly about the future and what the game is about moving forward,” added Alan Crosby, Director of Community Relations." As a journalist, and especially one who is supposedly up on this genre, it would be easy enough for you to go to the SWG forums yourself to verify this before printing this garbage spin. Why are players so concerned with the future? Could it be they are worried there isn't one? It's plain to see if you visit the forums. 'Interviews' like this can not be considered journalism, just more marketing spin. And all it took was a free trip to IHOP?
It is true the journalist could have questioned them to define certain terms, but you're forgetting something... An interview is NOT AN INVESTIGATION. You REPORT THE EXACT WORDS of someone in an INTERVIEW, it is not his JOB to verify the information to see if someone is lieing, that is our job, it is the medias job to let us know what was SAID, it is NOT their job to take someone to trial. A true reporter needs to be agnostic, needs to report things without their own opinions thrown in there, and this is what the journalist has done. Granted, I agree they could have proded further for clarification, but you do not have the right to get angry at the journalist because they are doing their job, and that is to report the entirety of the interview so the public can take the information and investigate into it for themselves.
For those of you who have never done any sort of interview process for schooling may not understand it, if it's for research than yes you can go back and look things up to prove a thesis, but if it's simply to share with the public what a company is saying, than that is exacly what the journalist is to do, report what is said, not what is found. That would be an INVESTIGATING story not a simple interview.
You can't yell at the messanger for the lies and mistakes of the sender, they are the middle man, they bring to you the message and you investigate.
LOL where did you think this gibberish up? my major in college was Communication... do you know what an interview is... not just answer one question and get one answer....
that would be the way you described it... hate to break it to you pal but an interview is a question and answer format... you get an answer you ask another question... in fact ... it is the duty of the reporter to go in deeper of questions to find a more appealing answer.... if they dont get what they are looking for then it is most likely edited out....and report only a glimpse of the conversation...
as for your investigating story... is just that a story... not a question answer format.... get the terms correct...
you are starting to sound just like SOE trying to spin the information to make the actual reporter of the article seem like she did ok...
i do have to admit... she or he didnt ask too many questions... sorry but if you are gonna be a reporter... you ask questions... that is the nature and duty of a "reporter"..... even if you dont get the results you are looking for... at least you try... its like hunting.... trying to get the big kill....
in essence... you do go in deeper with the questions... if they seem deemable you write about it... if not it is up to the reporter to write about what was answered...
sorry but not all news makes it to the headlines... there is always editing... but for god sakes dont let them spin information... ask questions... try to find the truth... "reporters" motto....
I dont post much anymore, but I have to say that this interview is very disapointing to me. Atleast as far as the comments made about SWG. I dont play, nor have ever played the others.
In my opinion, MMORPG.com is a source for people looking for new games. They come here to do some research on potential games that they may be interested. To let SOE spin facts on these forums in order to attract would be subscribers is doing the MMORPG.com community a huge injustice. Especially when the reporter has now admited that the statements 'seemed' incorrect. Hyping your own game is one thing. But flat out lieing is another.
Instead of swollowing this crap, and simply regurgitating what is told to you, do a little leg work. Take a visit to MMORPG.com's own SWG forums. Or even SWG very own official forums. Or any other place on the internet that has a SWG furum. Or better yet, create an account on the official boards, and openly ask the player base what the state of the game is. Or how the population has risen. Or about the in game bugs. Or any other question that you would want an honest answer to, and see what happens......I Dare you to. Then get back to us.
Originally posted by Shogie Why don't you go ahead and adopt SOE's forum policies too, and then you won't have to worry about these petty complaints of pandering to SOE's lies. Because, deleting/locking/banning criticism and complaint threads = positive feedback now. Brilliant follow up there guys...
Really Lep.. wtf was that? Knowing what you know about SOE and the SWG debacle, how do you let this stuff go? That's two softball articles on SOE and the SWG bit. Just do us all a favor and not report on SWG at all.. it would be better than seeing you being used as a conduit for their BS spin.
They already are adapting towards SoE forum policies, hence the reason they splitted up the swg forums, one for those who critize the game and one where they fanboys praise SoE in all they do. This way SoE knows they only have to read the fanboy forum and dont have to fear for people who critize the game. Wonder if Thunderguard is a moderator for mmorpg.com too, wouldnt suprise me at all.
Originally posted by jrscott Originally posted by Maddthwips i feel that we shouldnt be bashing MMORPG.com, but that we should be bashing on the ppl who post on these forums. they are idiots. all im reading is nonsense from u guys. u have no proof that what they say are lies, but yet u say they do. u say SOE is a crappy company, yet they draw alot of ppl to thier games. and they are great games too. u say SOE cares nothing about the customer, yet the NGE was to make the game more appealing to the current player base, and bring new ppl to the game. sure, it didnt go as they planned, but why bash em for a mistake they made. they add regular updates to many of thier games to make more options for fun. some ppl claim that they dont listen to customer feedback. read the article, they said they added alot of updates from customer feedback. all u ppl need to pull ur heads outta ur ass, and quit posting nonsense garbage that probably isnt even true. all the crying, whining, and false claims against SOE makes me glad u play other games, and not SOE games.
You are a lost soul. NGE was made to appeal to the current player base? Yes...the one it has currently, not the 250,000 that USED to play SWG. SOE ADMITTED they were willing to lose those subscribers in order to achieve a larger market share. If you don't see that as not only slimy, but poor business sense, you should probably be wearing a white jacket with sleeves that tie in the back.
SOE DID NOT CARE FOR 250,000 of the customers with the NGE, and they admitted it. What more proof of their lack of caring do you need? When they finally change the NGE out for something else, you will feel the same way and I for one will personally laugh at your misfortune.
THEY ALSO SAID "The CU is here to stay". At the very same time they were working on the NGE to replace it. That, for those of you too retarded to recognize it as such IS A BLATANT LIE. Offering special content for Creature Handlers in an expansion and then killing the profession within the SAME WEEK is a LIE AND FRAUD. Even SOE's lawyers recognized this and forced their bosses to offer refunds.
SOE cares? SOE does not lie?
Hmm i do wonder about the intelligence of SoE. If i would go to my boss with the idea of a change and also tell him : "This will screw up our current customers, most likely most of them will leave disgrunted but dont worry we will see a lot of new customers too, maybe even more then we now have at the moment"
How many companies would say : Hurray you will be the employer of the month!
Lying to your customers is the most stupid thing to do and somehow SoE gets away with it. But then again most mmorpg companies get away with it. Promising a lot and failing to deliver 8)
Hi there. I'm new to these forums, and to this site. First off I want to say I think the site is really cool . Secondly I just want to say thanks for questioning SOE in the first place. That was big of you to do. I think any flak you guys are getting is really just misplaced anger. An awful lot of people are still hurt and angry about all the losses they experienced, and all you need to do is mention the letters SWG and/or SOE, and it all comes boiling out. I've seen some good articles about what happened over in SWG that I'm pretty sure came from you folks, so thanks for that also.
I'm one of those players who lost all my professions that I had mastered (over about 2 years) and lost the jedi quest line that I had also been working on for about the same amount of time. I was on the last mission of a very long series of quests when they all got deleted. That was indeed a major bummer.
On a positive note, I rediscovered my love for Star Wars when I received the original theatre versions of the original trilogy on DVD. I also got Star Wars lego 2. Now that game is F.U.N. ^_^. AND nobody is going to come into my house and delete all my progress I don't think lol. Take that SOE -_^. My kids and I are now enjoying co-op adventures in a galaxy far far away.
As for MMORPG fun, I'm really enjoying City of Heroes and City of Villains. My experience with the company that runs those games has been very positive and refreshing. Game play is excellent and the community is in a really good state.
I'm also looking forward to reading articles on this site, and posting on the forums now and again ^_^. Happy gaming all!
They are so full of crap, SWG has most servers compleatly empty now, there hasnt been one with a population above light in weeks. They are getting great responses from the 13 year olds that Pwn eachother in the game >.< Why dont the bring out the NNGE where they make it 2 classes BH and Jedi. Then they could call it SWG "The GCW that never happened between Jedi and BH". Atleats then they would have the proper story. Right now its just SWG : WOW
--XK
There is only us, there is only this. Forget regret, or life is yours to miss. No other road, no other way. No day but today.
I dont know what SWG forums they have been reading but on thier official SWG boards and others linked, all the players HATE what they have done to the game. Yes, they do like the patches but most of the patches are adding the elements of the game that they took out. For example:
Player 1 - Hey we are getting player faction bases. How cool is that? Player 2 - Uh yeah we had those before but they took them out like they did the Creature Handling profession.
Comments
Unfotunately, at this time, there is no way to indepedently varify statements like that with any degree of accuracy. All we can do is report back what they tell us.
I think you are selling yourselves, this site, and your position as journalists too short, Dana.
What I gather from reading the responses here is that people who would like to depend on this site as a place to get accurate and informative news on MMORPGs is that they would not just like you to report verbatim what the company PR person (or anyone from that company) tells you, but that they would also like to see some follow-up to both help verify or discredit what was said. Doing so, of course, involves a heck of a lot more work than a simple breakfast meeting.
If Blizzard met you for a breakfast meeting, and commented that at the moment they only had two total subscribers for WOW, would you report that statement here without comment or scrutiny (aside from asking them thrice again), as you did SOE's claim about SWG? To be sure, without an easy manner to verify the veracity of the claim (and as you have stated, SONY does it's best to make it as difficult as possible to do so by not releasing the numbers) then the claim is worthless as verifiable news and probably should not have been mentioned. They could have told you, literally, anything at that breakfast. Would you then have reported and published anything that they said without fact checking? This question is even more important given SOE's public track record of lying to their customers.
Where do you draw the line between "reporting" and being used as a non-paid PR source? To me, the line lies somewhere near the point where the facts pertaining to the claims can be checked for their accuracy. No facts to back up your statement? Sorry SOE, no reporting of your claims. We'll grab an Egg McMuffin on the way to the convention, thanks.
I hope you all take the feedback here to heart, and not dismiss it as simply some ex-SWG players ranting against SOE (I've never played SWG, FWIW and am a rabid fan of EQII). This whole issue has become much more than that. Your customers are telling you that as time goes on they are depending on you more and more for real insight and in-depth reporting on what goes on in the MMORPG business, and that they are bright and intelligent enough to dismiss the fluff and bluster that comes from a business press release, even if it is over pancakes.
For my part, I think you guys do a heck of a good job, and I enjoy reading here. But don't fool yourselves, this site is maturing, and its customer base is maturing with it. As such, we will begin to demand more of you as journalists as we become more and more cynical after such fiascos as SWG, DnL and others.
The question is whether you guys will take the easy road and stick with reporting simply what was said/released as you have done in this article, or will you also put the effort into determining the truth, representing your customer's interests, rejecting the fluff and subsequently rise above the rest of the similar venues out there.
Best of luck and I'll keep reading.
-Jeff
If you're happy with the game, I for one am very happy for you. But please, do not come on here making statements that SOE doesn't lie and don't ask people like me to shut up because you do not like what we have to say. Everything you have said is from your perspective and disproves nothing. "I have never had an issue with SOE personally" does not change what has happened to HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of others. Choose to believe them or not, but you go too far in calling them Liars just because you have not experienced the evil of SOE.
Please enjoy your game and ignore us.
see the problem here is im the minority. i chose to go on the pro-SOE front, but i doubt many others will join me. i chose to to post my opinions against the opinions of others on this forum, and i knew i would be a huge target for the backlash. why did i do it? not sure really, was kinda bored and went with it. ur right, i didnt play SWG for very long after release ( mainly because im not too much of a fan of Star Wars, and couldnt get into it) so i dont know the full exp of the game before the NGE went through, i did reinstall the game after NGE went through, and still found it to be boring. (though flying in space was a cool idea) yea, it was wrong of me to call u guys liars, and im sorry for that. but why do u guys still care? why is bashing SOE such a huge topic? my answer: working in retail has made me realize that ppl will write, e-mail or post bad things 10X more, than they would something good. so i dont take what ppl rant about too seriously. for every 10 ppl that post bad things there are probably 10 ppl that can post good things but wont. if SOE says there numbers are increasing, good for them. the game cant be doing too bad, if its still around.
i know this is asking much, but do u have links to posts or media where SOE's lies were made clear? let me see where ur coming from and not just "hearsay" from u guys.
and jrscott, which company do u work for? just curious.
also, u ask me not to tell u guys to "shut up", but because i have a difference in opinion then u guys, u tell me to "shut up". this forum is to discuss the topic at hand, and all im seeing is rants about how crappy SWG and SOE is, so why cant i post on how good i think SOE is doing and what i dont agree with on ur posts? u guys love to post against what im saying. opinions are like @$$holes, everyone has one.
wow, ur an idiot, DumbDogofBria, the topic isnt only about SWG. most of what i wrote had to do with SOE. go ahead, get mad some more, i laugh at ur dumb posts. ive already said that i dont play SWG. go ahead and look. u just proved what i said in my first post of this topic. thanx
wow, ur an idiot, DumbDogofBria, the topic isnt only about SWG. most of what i wrote had to do with SOE. go ahead, get mad some more, i laugh at ur dumb posts. ive already said that i dont play SWG. go ahead and look. u just proved what i said in my first post of this topic. thanx
How exactly did I prove what you said in your first post in this thread? Because I just re-read your first post and I don't see where you said A, you didn't play swg very much at all or B, You're just looking for attention. Because that's all I just said.
PS: Sentances begin with capital letters.
wow, ur an idiot, DumbDogofBria, the topic isnt only about SWG. most of what i wrote had to do with SOE. go ahead, get mad some more, i laugh at ur dumb posts. ive already said that i dont play SWG. go ahead and look. u just proved what i said in my first post of this topic. thanx
How exactly did I prove what you said in your first post in this thread? Because I just re-read your first post and I don't see where you said A, you didn't play swg very much at all or B, You're just looking for attention. Because that's all I just said.
PS: Sentances begin with capital letters.
thanx for the lesson. me not using capitals is not really a big deal. now ur just trying ur hardest to find something to attack me with, but u failed. as for the rest, my first post didnt say i dont play SWG, i never said it did, i said ive already said it before. what i was referring to is that u are an idiot, and u definately proved me to be right there. come on, man, where is this stone cold logic?
An interview is NOT AN INVESTIGATION. You REPORT THE EXACT WORDS of someone in an INTERVIEW, it is not his JOB to verify the information to see if someone is lieing, that is our job, it is the medias job to let us know what was SAID, it is NOT their job to take someone to trial.
A true reporter needs to be agnostic, needs to report things without their own opinions thrown in there, and this is what the journalist has done. Granted, I agree they could have proded further for clarification, but you do not have the right to get angry at the journalist because they are doing their job, and that is to report the entirety of the interview so the public can take the information and investigate into it for themselves.
For those of you who have never done any sort of interview process for schooling may not understand it, if it's for research than yes you can go back and look things up to prove a thesis, but if it's simply to share with the public what a company is saying, than that is exacly what the journalist is to do, report what is said, not what is found. That would be an INVESTIGATING story not a simple interview.
You can't yell at the messanger for the lies and mistakes of the sender, they are the middle man, they bring to you the message and you investigate.
Top Ten Most Misused Words/Phrases in MMO Industry...
you should through SWG to the bin and star SWGII i use to love that game
yeah it probably did grow in the time period they mention, probably from offering the 30 day free trial more than anything.... what they fail to tell you is that in the preceeding 2 or 3 months to that they lost about half of their subscribers due to nge. They are very careful not to release numbers becuase they know they would reveal this truth...
Im still seething about the way they marketed the mustophar expansion, which i bought purely for the creature handler ring, only to find they had taken the profession out of the game entirely. Like countless others I even gave a month of my time beta testing it for them, when they knew it was utterly pointless.They were still pushing the advertising bull for the ring upto the time they annouced ch was being taken out to get yet more money! Granted they offered a refund in due course, but only after a few customers threatened to sue over fraudulent advertising. I still cant believe they got away with it, there needs to be some kind of standards agency in place to stop big companies doing this becuase its absolutely disgraceful. All this spin is getting way out of hand these days, some common sense needs to be applied to the laws regarding this because it will only get worse if nothing is done.
An interview is NOT AN INVESTIGATION. You REPORT THE EXACT WORDS of someone in an INTERVIEW, it is not his JOB to verify the information to see if someone is lieing, that is our job, it is the medias job to let us know what was SAID, it is NOT their job to take someone to trial.
A true reporter needs to be agnostic, needs to report things without their own opinions thrown in there, and this is what the journalist has done. Granted, I agree they could have proded further for clarification, but you do not have the right to get angry at the journalist because they are doing their job, and that is to report the entirety of the interview so the public can take the information and investigate into it for themselves.
For those of you who have never done any sort of interview process for schooling may not understand it, if it's for research than yes you can go back and look things up to prove a thesis, but if it's simply to share with the public what a company is saying, than that is exacly what the journalist is to do, report what is said, not what is found. That would be an INVESTIGATING story not a simple interview.
You can't yell at the messanger for the lies and mistakes of the sender, they are the middle man, they bring to you the message and you investigate.
LOL where did you think this gibberish up? my major in college was Communication... do you know what an interview is... not just answer one question and get one answer....
that would be the way you described it... hate to break it to you pal but an interview is a question and answer format... you get an answer you ask another question... in fact ... it is the duty of the reporter to go in deeper of questions to find a more appealing answer.... if they dont get what they are looking for then it is most likely edited out....and report only a glimpse of the conversation...
as for your investigating story... is just that a story... not a question answer format.... get the terms correct...
you are starting to sound just like SOE trying to spin the information to make the actual reporter of the article seem like she did ok...
i do have to admit... she or he didnt ask too many questions... sorry but if you are gonna be a reporter... you ask questions... that is the nature and duty of a "reporter"..... even if you dont get the results you are looking for... at least you try... its like hunting.... trying to get the big kill....
in essence... you do go in deeper with the questions... if they seem deemable you write about it... if not it is up to the reporter to write about what was answered...
sorry but not all news makes it to the headlines... there is always editing... but for god sakes dont let them spin information... ask questions... try to find the truth... "reporters" motto....
I dont post much anymore, but I have to say that this interview is very disapointing to me. Atleast as far as the comments made about SWG. I dont play, nor have ever played the others.
In my opinion, MMORPG.com is a source for people looking for new games. They come here to do some research on potential games that they may be interested. To let SOE spin facts on these forums in order to attract would be subscribers is doing the MMORPG.com community a huge injustice. Especially when the reporter has now admited that the statements 'seemed' incorrect. Hyping your own game is one thing. But flat out lieing is another.
Instead of swollowing this crap, and simply regurgitating what is told to you, do a little leg work. Take a visit to MMORPG.com's own SWG forums. Or even SWG very own official forums. Or any other place on the internet that has a SWG furum. Or better yet, create an account on the official boards, and openly ask the player base what the state of the game is. Or how the population has risen. Or about the in game bugs. Or any other question that you would want an honest answer to, and see what happens......I Dare you to. Then get back to us.
You are a lost soul. NGE was made to appeal to the current player base? Yes...the one it has currently, not the 250,000 that USED to play SWG. SOE ADMITTED they were willing to lose those subscribers in order to achieve a larger market share. If you don't see that as not only slimy, but poor business sense, you should probably be wearing a white jacket with sleeves that tie in the back.
SOE DID NOT CARE FOR 250,000 of the customers with the NGE, and they admitted it. What more proof of their lack of caring do you need? When they finally change the NGE out for something else, you will feel the same way and I for one will personally laugh at your misfortune.
THEY ALSO SAID "The CU is here to stay". At the very same time they were working on the NGE to replace it. That, for those of you too retarded to recognize it as such IS A BLATANT LIE. Offering special content for Creature Handlers in an expansion and then killing the profession within the SAME WEEK is a LIE AND FRAUD. Even SOE's lawyers recognized this and forced their bosses to offer refunds.
SOE cares? SOE does not lie?
Hmm i do wonder about the intelligence of SoE. If i would go to my boss with the idea of a change and also tell him : "This will screw up our current customers, most likely most of them will leave disgrunted but dont worry we will see a lot of new customers too, maybe even more then we now have at the moment"
How many companies would say : Hurray you will be the employer of the month!
Lying to your customers is the most stupid thing to do and somehow SoE gets away with it. But then again most mmorpg companies get away with it. Promising a lot and failing to deliver 8)
Hi there. I'm new to these forums, and to this site. First off I want to say I think the site is really cool
. Secondly I just want to say thanks for questioning SOE in the first place. That was big of you to do. I think any flak you guys are getting is really just misplaced anger. An awful lot of people are still hurt and angry about all the losses they experienced, and all you need to do is mention the letters SWG and/or SOE, and it all comes boiling out. I've seen some good articles about what happened over in SWG that I'm pretty sure came from you folks, so thanks for that also.
I'm one of those players who lost all my professions that I had mastered (over about 2 years) and lost the jedi quest line that I had also been working on for about the same amount of time. I was on the last mission of a very long series of quests when they all got deleted. That was indeed a major bummer.
On a positive note, I rediscovered my love for Star Wars when I received the original theatre versions of the original trilogy on DVD. I also got Star Wars lego 2. Now that game is F.U.N. ^_^. AND nobody is going to come into my house and delete all my progress I don't think lol. Take that SOE -_^. My kids and I are now enjoying co-op adventures in a galaxy far far away.
As for MMORPG fun, I'm really enjoying City of Heroes and City of Villains. My experience with the company that runs those games has been very positive and refreshing. Game play is excellent and the community is in a really good state.
I'm also looking forward to reading articles on this site, and posting on the forums now and again ^_^. Happy gaming all!
Arc3
--XK
There is only us, there is only this.
Forget regret, or life is yours to miss.
No other road, no other way.
No day but today.
There is only us, there is only this.
Forget regret, or life is yours to miss.
No other road, no other way.
No day but today.
Player 1 - Hey we are getting player faction bases. How cool is that?
Player 2 - Uh yeah we had those before but they took them out like they did the Creature Handling profession.
So I think they need to look at the big picture.