Originally posted by vortigen7 Originally posted by Gameloading
Originally posted by vortigen7
Originally posted by Gameloading Agreed. I played 3 western MMO's, so it is a good indication that EVE online and Auto Assault are the exact same like Tibia and Runescape...
Btw...Eve online is based out of Iceland, Tibia is based out of Germany, and Runescape is a UK based company. Of all your selections above, only one is really what could be referred to as a "western" produced game, and that would be Auto Assault (a Colorado based company).
European and American markets are not the same...hence you have American, European, and Asian markets. So next time, research the origins of games used in your defense before just blindly posting something and assuming we know that you know what you're talking about. Thanks.
Actually the european and american market are EXACTLY the same when it comes to mmorpg's. Its not coincidence the EXACT same mmorpg's are popular in europe as in the United states. It is not coincidence that the few mmorpg's created in europe are in many ways VERY similiar to the american MMO's. maybe YOU should do your research a little better. when people talk about the western market, europe is usually included. so next time, do your research on mmo's and the mmorpg market a little better before you post things like that. thanks.
Surely you do not actually believe that European and American markets are EXACTLY the same, as you put it, do you? Saga of Ryzom for example, is a French game, but it is quite similar to the Asian style of gameplay. In some ways you might actually say that it's a merge between the Asian graphics style and western controls. Yet, simply because some people in America choose to play it, does it now mean that it's a "western" style of game? No.
Actually, Saga of ryzom is in many ways a lot like UO (without the pvp ruleset) and old Star wars galaxies with a new theme on it. the fact remains that the game is a lot like US MMo's
Secondly, your comment about saying "It's not coincidence the EXACT same mmorpg's are popular in Europe as in the United States" is completely illogical. By your own admission, you play Korean games, and so they are popular with you and others in the US. So because they may have some populartity in the US, does this now mean that Korean games are now "westernized"? Duh...I don't think so, because if they were there would be no such thing as western/Asian market distinctions.
Again, if you would have done your research you would have known that the korean games are not popular in the US/EU at all. your logic makes no sense at all. I'm talking about the fact that Us and the few EU mmo's are in many way the exact same. also a fact is that the EXACT same MMORPG's are popular in EU and in the US.
There are easily identifiable distinctions between the market these games were designed for. The logic you use to say that the EXACT same mmorpg's are popular in Europe and the US is completely misplaced, because an items popularity in a country outside of its origin country does not change the origin of the game, nor it's intended market.
the origin of the game does not change the fact the mmorpg markets of europe and US are exactly the same. Every US mmorpg's intended market is the us AND europe. every european mmorpg's inteded market is the US AND Europe. because both markets have the same intrest.
If you find Korean mmo's to be popular you are just playing a game that was designed for a different market, but you have not westernized it simply by the playing of it. It is, and will remain, a Korean game designed for an Asian market.
indeed, and the subscriber bases prove that korean games don't do well in the US/EU where US mmorpg's don't do well in asia. however US mmorpg's do well in both US/EU and the EU mmorpg's do well in both US and the EU.
also I never said anything about korean games being westernized. Korean games gameplay is entirely diffrent from US/EU MMORPG's. Korean MMO's are intended for the asian market, and US/EU MMORPG's are intended for the US and the EU.
So now, in addition to doing research, start using some common sense and think before you write.
Originally posted by Gameloading There isn't, because a game like EVE simply wouldn't do well in Korea. it doesn't fit the gaming style of the koreans.
So, now you're an expert on what is the Korean gaming style, and you know what would and would not do well in Korea? If you have such a grasp of the gaming market, why are you not working towards that end instead of ranting on these boards?
Granted, perhaps the OP should have worded his thread to say "Why do the MAJORITY of Korean mmo's suck?" but that's all in retrospect. But the fact is, the MAJORITY of Korean mmo's that make it to the US do suck. Whether you like the idea or not, they're all clones, even if some were more successful than most.
Alot of a games appeal has to do with its history. World of Warcraft had a nice customer base from its original games that were not online. Also, many people were taking a break from the EQ, Asheron's Call, Shadowbane, and DAoC. And each new game that comes out does borrow at least something from it's predecessors...and that's called PROGRESSION. Take what is good, improve on that, as well as use some innovation towards new design. The trouble is, most Korean/Asian mmo's are carbon copies of each other with perhaps a slight graphic difference or placement of UI icons. Their mechanics are the same, so if you played one you played them all for the most part. And it is this aspect about them that sucks. So again, perhaps the OP did not choose his words as carefully as he might have before posting, but the basis for the arguement is still there.
Originally posted by vortigen7 Originally posted by Gameloading There isn't, because a game like EVE simply wouldn't do well in Korea. it doesn't fit the gaming style of the koreans.
So, now you're an expert on what is the Korean gaming style, and you know what would and would not do well in Korea? If you have such a grasp of the gaming market, why are you not working towards that end instead of ranting on these boards?
Anybody with just a little knowledge of how MMORPG's work in korea would know that a game like EVE would not do well in a country like Korea. the style of gaming is very diffrent then here.
Granted, perhaps the OP should have worded his thread to say "Why do the MAJORITY of Korean mmo's suck?" but that's all in retrospect. But the fact is, the MAJORITY of Korean mmo's that make it to the US do suck. Whether you like the idea or not, they're all clones, even if some were more successful than most.
Nobody in this topic said that the majority of korean mmorpg's that come to the US don't suck..
Alot of a games appeal has to do with its history. World of Warcraft had a nice customer base from its original games that were not online. Also, many people were taking a break from the EQ, Asheron's Call, Shadowbane, and DAoC. And each new game that comes out does borrow at least something from it's predecessors...and that's called PROGRESSION. Take what is good, improve on that, as well as use some innovation towards new design. The trouble is, most Korean/Asian mmo's are carbon copies of each other with perhaps a slight graphic difference or placement of UI icons. Their mechanics are the same, so if you played one you played them all for the most part. And it is this aspect about them that sucks. So again, perhaps the OP did not choose his words as carefully as he might have before posting, but the basis for the arguement is still there.
Actually, Saga of ryzom is in many ways a lot like UO (without the pvp ruleset) and old Star wars galaxies with a new theme on it. the fact remains that the game is a lot like US MMo's Saga of Ryzom a lot like UO? You've got to be kidding me. Saga of Ryzom is a 3D game, and UO is isometric 2D. They are TOTALLY different concepts. Saga of Ryzom is a merge of Sci-Fi/Fantasy, whereas UO is just fantasy. If you had played them both, as I have, there is no way you could confuse one for the other because they are so completely different from each other. Graphics, interface, magic, combat, etc. No comparison. Again, if you would have done your research you would have known that the korean games are not popular in the US/EU at all. your logic makes no sense at all. I'm talking about the fact that Us and the few EU mmo's are in many way the exact same. also a fact is that the EXACT same MMORPG's are popular in EU and in the US. If Korean games are not populare in the US/EU *AT ALL*, then why are you playing them AT ALL? Are you not in Europe, or did the Netherlands become an independent entity recently? I did not say that they shared an explosion of popularity, but some people out of the Asian markets play them...just like we listen to music from other countries, eat food from other countries, etc. Dude, you really need to rethink your logic, for you have no concept of what it even is. And as far as saying the games are in many ways the exact same...make up your mind. You can't say "in many ways the exact same" because either they're exact, or they're not exact. Try using the words "in many ways they're similar"...you'll appear to make much more sense. the origin of the game does not change the fact the mmorpg markets of europe and US are exactly the same. Every US mmorpg's intended market is the us AND europe. every european mmorpg's inteded market is the US AND Europe. because both markets have the same intrest.
American and European markets may be similar, but just as I pointed out...Saga of Ryzom is a French game with more of an Asian market influence than American. American games are produced with the intent of being released in America. European markets are secondary...just like the Asian games produced are secondary outside of Asia. indeed, and the subscriber bases prove that korean games don't do well in the US/EU where US mmorpg's don't do well in asia. however US mmorpg's do well in both US/EU and the EU mmorpg's do well in both US and the EU.
also I never said anything about korean games being westernized. Korean games gameplay is entirely diffrent from US/EU MMORPG's. Korean MMO's are intended for the asian market, and US/EU MMORPG's are intended for the US and the EU. Again, you continue to prove my point. I said in the beginning that the Asian and western gameplay styles were different, and that is how I based my opinion of the Asian games as being something that I did not personally choose to play. But when you decided to try and tell me that my opinion was wrong, and that my opinion should be more like yours, well that's when I chose to inform you that you had no idea what you're talking about. If I personally don't care for Asian games, then who are you to tell me what is so good about them and try to defend them as if I was trying to tell you what you're supposed to like or not like? Does my opinion really matter to you? Well, apparently it must, or you'd not have continued posting here in your attempts to try and sway me to your way of thinking. you should clearly do some research first. I do research and I've shown you several times where I've done concrete research but all that you can do is spout off nonsense with no facts to back up what you write. Perhaps you need to go here and learn a bit about posting: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting.php
Anybody with just a little knowledge of how MMORPG's work in korea would know that a game like EVE would not do well in a country like Korea. the style of gaming is very diffrent then here.
I already KNOW what the Korean style of games are, having played several upon which I've based my opinions, so I know EVE would not do as well there. I had only replied to what YOU were saying. That's called 'sarcasm', but I guess it went right over your head.
Nobody in this topic said that the majority of korean mmorpg's that come to the US don't suck..
The topic had been "why do all korean mmo's suck?" Notice...he asked why do ALL of them suck? That is what prompted most people here to then defend the korean games, including yourself, commenting on how most of the korean games which do make it to the US are the free games, and thus are lower quality than those you pay for, such as Lineage 2, etc. So if the impression of the thread was centered on the statement that ALL korean mmo's suck, it is because as some posters have said...we've only been exposed to the lower quality games. As such that is why I mentioned that HAD the original poster just made the thread read "Why do the MAJORITY of korean mmo's suck?", then no one would have said he was wrong in that opinion, because it's agreed that most of them are just clones. It was only because he was generalizing, lumping all the korean games together into one group, that brought out the korean game defenders. So yes, that is true...no one in this topic had said that the majority of korean mmo's that come to the us don't suck...that was, until I mentioned it. And when I had, it was only a suggestion for how the OP might have originally worded this thread to avoid the arguements that followed. Thus, your comment "nobody in this topic said that the majority of korean mmo's that come to the US don't suck" is correct...because it had not been worded in such a way prior. So thank you for noticing the change that I had suggested.
Originally posted by vortigen7 Originally posted by Gameloading
Anybody with just a little knowledge of how MMORPG's work in korea would know that a game like EVE would not do well in a country like Korea. the style of gaming is very diffrent then here.
I already KNOW what the Korean style of games are, having played several upon which I've based my opinions, so I know EVE would not do as well there. I had only replied to what YOU were saying. That's called 'sarcasm', but I guess it went right over your head.
Nobody in this topic said that the majority of korean mmorpg's that come to the US don't suck..
The topic had been "why do all korean mmo's suck?" Notice...he asked why do ALL of them suck? That is what prompted most people here to then defend the korean games, including yourself, commenting on how most of the korean games which do make it to the US are the free games, and thus are lower quality than those you pay for, such as Lineage 2, etc. So if the impression of the thread was centered on the statement that ALL korean mmo's suck, it is because as some posters have said...we've only been exposed to the lower quality games. As such that is why I mentioned that HAD the original poster just made the thread read "Why do the MAJORITY of korean mmo's suck?", then no one would have said he was wrong in that opinion, because it's agreed that most of them are just clones. It was only because he was generalizing, lumping all the korean games together into one group, that brought out the korean game defenders. So yes, that is true...no one in this topic had said that the majority of korean mmo's that come to the us don't suck...that was, until I mentioned it. And when I had, it was only a suggestion for how the OP might have originally worded this thread to avoid the arguements that followed. Thus, your comment "nobody in this topic said that the majority of korean mmo's that come to the US don't suck" is correct...because it had not been worded in such a way prior. So thank you for noticing the change that I had suggested.
You two have both clearly lost your minds! I don't even know WTF you are arguing over anymore lol...
Originally posted by vortigen7 Originally posted by Gameloading
Actually, Saga of ryzom is in many ways a lot like UO (without the pvp ruleset) and old Star wars galaxies with a new theme on it. the fact remains that the game is a lot like US MMo's Saga of Ryzom a lot like UO? You've got to be kidding me. Saga of Ryzom is a 3D game, and UO is isometric 2D. They are TOTALLY different concepts. Saga of Ryzom is a merge of Sci-Fi/Fantasy, whereas UO is just fantasy. If you had played them both, as I have, there is no way you could confuse one for the other because they are so completely different from each other. Graphics, interface, magic, combat, etc. No comparison. I think its clear you need to take a better look at SoR or else you would easily see Saga of ryzom is a lot like Ulitima Online. UO is fantasy and Ryzom is fantasy/SCi fi. does this influence gameplay? No. not in a single way. the amazing depth in both games show they are similiar in many ways. I do not claim saga of ryzom is an exact clone of UO, but if SoR looks like anything, then its UO and old - pre NGE SWG. Again, if you would have done your research you would have known that the korean games are not popular in the US/EU at all. your logic makes no sense at all. I'm talking about the fact that Us and the few EU mmo's are in many way the exact same. also a fact is that the EXACT same MMORPG's are popular in EU and in the US. If Korean games are not populare in the US/EU *AT ALL*, then why are you playing them AT ALL? Are you not in Europe, or did the Netherlands become an independent entity recently? I did not say that they shared an explosion of popularity, but some people out of the Asian markets play them...just like we listen to music from other countries, eat food from other countries, etc. Dude, you really need to rethink your logic, for you have no concept of what it even is. And as far as saying the games are in many ways the exact same...make up your mind. You can't say "in many ways the exact same" because either they're exact, or they're not exact. Try using the words "in many ways they're similar"...you'll appear to make much more sense. the word Popular: Widely liked or appreciated:
You misunderstood the word popular. not many people in the US/EU like korean games, hence they are NOT popular AT ALL.
the origin of the game does not change the fact the mmorpg markets of europe and US are exactly the same. Every US mmorpg's intended market is the us AND europe. every european mmorpg's inteded market is the US AND Europe. because both markets have the same intrest.
American and European markets may be similar, but just as I pointed out...Saga of Ryzom is a French game with more of an Asian market influence than American. American games are produced with the intent of being released in America. European markets are secondary...just like the Asian games produced are secondary outside of Asia. Again, this proves you really know JACK about asian mmorpg's. the saga of ryzom is NOTHING like any asian mmorpg. indeed, and the subscriber bases prove that korean games don't do well in the US/EU where US mmorpg's don't do well in asia. however US mmorpg's do well in both US/EU and the EU mmorpg's do well in both US and the EU.
also I never said anything about korean games being westernized. Korean games gameplay is entirely diffrent from US/EU MMORPG's. Korean MMO's are intended for the asian market, and US/EU MMORPG's are intended for the US and the EU. Again, you continue to prove my point. I said in the beginning that the Asian and western gameplay styles were different, and that is how I based my opinion of the Asian games as being something that I did not personally choose to play. But when you decided to try and tell me that my opinion was wrong, and that my opinion should be more like yours, well that's when I chose to inform you that you had no idea what you're talking about. If I personally don't care for Asian games, then who are you to tell me what is so good about them and try to defend them as if I was trying to tell you what you're supposed to like or not like? Does my opinion really matter to you? Well, apparently it must, or you'd not have continued posting here in your attempts to try and sway me to your way of thinking. Like you proved in a previous post, you have never played real asian quality mmorpg and therfor are in NO position to judge them. its like saying you know everything about ancient rome when you have only seen the remains of the colloseum. Let me once again state I am not trying to get you to think like me, I am saying you should first try it before you make an opinion.
you should clearly do some research first.
I do research and I've shown you several times where I've done concrete research but all that you can do is spout off nonsense with no facts to back up what you write. Perhaps you need to go here and learn a bit about posting:
Basing your oppinnion on free games is not considered research, and not knowing the US/EU mmorpg market are one and the same proves how little you actually know about mmorpg markets.
Comments
Btw...Eve online is based out of Iceland, Tibia is based out of Germany, and Runescape is a UK based company. Of all your selections above, only one is really what could be referred to as a "western" produced game, and that would be Auto Assault (a Colorado based company).
European and American markets are not the same...hence you have American, European, and Asian markets. So next time, research the origins of games used in your defense before just blindly posting something and assuming we know that you know what you're talking about. Thanks.
Actually the european and american market are EXACTLY the same when it comes to mmorpg's. Its not coincidence the EXACT same mmorpg's are popular in europe as in the United states. It is not coincidence that the few mmorpg's created in europe are in many ways VERY similiar to the american MMO's. maybe YOU should do your research a little better. when people talk about the western market, europe is usually included. so next time, do your research on mmo's and the mmorpg market a little better before you post things like that. thanks.
Surely you do not actually believe that European and American markets are EXACTLY the same, as you put it, do you? Saga of Ryzom for example, is a French game, but it is quite similar to the Asian style of gameplay. In some ways you might actually say that it's a merge between the Asian graphics style and western controls. Yet, simply because some people in America choose to play it, does it now mean that it's a "western" style of game? No.
Actually, Saga of ryzom is in many ways a lot like UO (without the pvp ruleset) and old Star wars galaxies with a new theme on it. the fact remains that the game is a lot like US MMo's
Secondly, your comment about saying "It's not coincidence the EXACT same mmorpg's are popular in Europe as in the United States" is completely illogical. By your own admission, you play Korean games, and so they are popular with you and others in the US. So because they may have some populartity in the US, does this now mean that Korean games are now "westernized"? Duh...I don't think so, because if they were there would be no such thing as western/Asian market distinctions.
Again, if you would have done your research you would have known that the korean games are not popular in the US/EU at all. your logic makes no sense at all. I'm talking about the fact that Us and the few EU mmo's are in many way the exact same. also a fact is that the EXACT same MMORPG's are popular in EU and in the US.
There are easily identifiable distinctions between the market these games were designed for. The logic you use to say that the EXACT same mmorpg's are popular in Europe and the US is completely misplaced, because an items popularity in a country outside of its origin country does not change the origin of the game, nor it's intended market.
the origin of the game does not change the fact the mmorpg markets of europe and US are exactly the same. Every US mmorpg's intended market is the us AND europe. every european mmorpg's inteded market is the US AND Europe. because both markets have the same intrest.
If you find Korean mmo's to be popular you are just playing a game that was designed for a different market, but you have not westernized it simply by the playing of it. It is, and will remain, a Korean game designed for an Asian market.
indeed, and the subscriber bases prove that korean games don't do well in the US/EU where US mmorpg's don't do well in asia. however US mmorpg's do well in both US/EU and the EU mmorpg's do well in both US and the EU.
also I never said anything about korean games being westernized. Korean games gameplay is entirely diffrent from US/EU MMORPG's. Korean MMO's are intended for the asian market, and US/EU MMORPG's are intended for the US and the EU.
So now, in addition to doing research, start using some common sense and think before you write.
you should clearly do some research first.
So, now you're an expert on what is the Korean gaming style, and you know what would and would not do well in Korea? If you have such a grasp of the gaming market, why are you not working towards that end instead of ranting on these boards?
Granted, perhaps the OP should have worded his thread to say "Why do the MAJORITY of Korean mmo's suck?" but that's all in retrospect. But the fact is, the MAJORITY of Korean mmo's that make it to the US do suck. Whether you like the idea or not, they're all clones, even if some were more successful than most.
Alot of a games appeal has to do with its history. World of Warcraft had a nice customer base from its original games that were not online. Also, many people were taking a break from the EQ, Asheron's Call, Shadowbane, and DAoC. And each new game that comes out does borrow at least something from it's predecessors...and that's called PROGRESSION. Take what is good, improve on that, as well as use some innovation towards new design. The trouble is, most Korean/Asian mmo's are carbon copies of each other with perhaps a slight graphic difference or placement of UI icons. Their mechanics are the same, so if you played one you played them all for the most part. And it is this aspect about them that sucks. So again, perhaps the OP did not choose his words as carefully as he might have before posting, but the basis for the arguement is still there.
So, now you're an expert on what is the Korean gaming style, and you know what would and would not do well in Korea? If you have such a grasp of the gaming market, why are you not working towards that end instead of ranting on these boards?
Anybody with just a little knowledge of how MMORPG's work in korea would know that a game like EVE would not do well in a country like Korea. the style of gaming is very diffrent then here.
Granted, perhaps the OP should have worded his thread to say "Why do the MAJORITY of Korean mmo's suck?" but that's all in retrospect. But the fact is, the MAJORITY of Korean mmo's that make it to the US do suck. Whether you like the idea or not, they're all clones, even if some were more successful than most.
Nobody in this topic said that the majority of korean mmorpg's that come to the US don't suck..
Alot of a games appeal has to do with its history. World of Warcraft had a nice customer base from its original games that were not online. Also, many people were taking a break from the EQ, Asheron's Call, Shadowbane, and DAoC. And each new game that comes out does borrow at least something from it's predecessors...and that's called PROGRESSION. Take what is good, improve on that, as well as use some innovation towards new design. The trouble is, most Korean/Asian mmo's are carbon copies of each other with perhaps a slight graphic difference or placement of UI icons. Their mechanics are the same, so if you played one you played them all for the most part. And it is this aspect about them that sucks. So again, perhaps the OP did not choose his words as carefully as he might have before posting, but the basis for the arguement is still there.
Anybody with just a little knowledge of how MMORPG's work in korea would know that a game like EVE would not do well in a country like Korea. the style of gaming is very diffrent then here.
I already KNOW what the Korean style of games are, having played several upon which I've based my opinions, so I know EVE would not do as well there. I had only replied to what YOU were saying. That's called 'sarcasm', but I guess it went right over your head.
Nobody in this topic said that the majority of korean mmorpg's that come to the US don't suck..
The topic had been "why do all korean mmo's suck?" Notice...he asked why do ALL of them suck? That is what prompted most people here to then defend the korean games, including yourself, commenting on how most of the korean games which do make it to the US are the free games, and thus are lower quality than those you pay for, such as Lineage 2, etc. So if the impression of the thread was centered on the statement that ALL korean mmo's suck, it is because as some posters have said...we've only been exposed to the lower quality games. As such that is why I mentioned that HAD the original poster just made the thread read "Why do the MAJORITY of korean mmo's suck?", then no one would have said he was wrong in that opinion, because it's agreed that most of them are just clones. It was only because he was generalizing, lumping all the korean games together into one group, that brought out the korean game defenders. So yes, that is true...no one in this topic had said that the majority of korean mmo's that come to the us don't suck...that was, until I mentioned it. And when I had, it was only a suggestion for how the OP might have originally worded this thread to avoid the arguements that followed. Thus, your comment "nobody in this topic said that the majority of korean mmo's that come to the US don't suck" is correct...because it had not been worded in such a way prior. So thank you for noticing the change that I had suggested.
Anybody with just a little knowledge of how MMORPG's work in korea would know that a game like EVE would not do well in a country like Korea. the style of gaming is very diffrent then here.
I already KNOW what the Korean style of games are, having played several upon which I've based my opinions, so I know EVE would not do as well there. I had only replied to what YOU were saying. That's called 'sarcasm', but I guess it went right over your head.
Nobody in this topic said that the majority of korean mmorpg's that come to the US don't suck..
The topic had been "why do all korean mmo's suck?" Notice...he asked why do ALL of them suck? That is what prompted most people here to then defend the korean games, including yourself, commenting on how most of the korean games which do make it to the US are the free games, and thus are lower quality than those you pay for, such as Lineage 2, etc. So if the impression of the thread was centered on the statement that ALL korean mmo's suck, it is because as some posters have said...we've only been exposed to the lower quality games. As such that is why I mentioned that HAD the original poster just made the thread read "Why do the MAJORITY of korean mmo's suck?", then no one would have said he was wrong in that opinion, because it's agreed that most of them are just clones. It was only because he was generalizing, lumping all the korean games together into one group, that brought out the korean game defenders. So yes, that is true...no one in this topic had said that the majority of korean mmo's that come to the us don't suck...that was, until I mentioned it. And when I had, it was only a suggestion for how the OP might have originally worded this thread to avoid the arguements that followed. Thus, your comment "nobody in this topic said that the majority of korean mmo's that come to the US don't suck" is correct...because it had not been worded in such a way prior. So thank you for noticing the change that I had suggested.
You two have both clearly lost your minds! I don't even know WTF you are arguing over anymore lol...