My guess is it has something to do with none of you being korean. I'm sure they complain about western mmos being too easy, and why do they have to do all the stupid quests can't we just kill things.
Remember The Super Famicom? The Japanese version of the Super Nintendo? My friend growing up was Japanese and his aunt would send him new RPGs every month just about. The sheer variety of titles with really awesome features and amazing graphics (and I mean stellar for SNES) was amazing. I could never play them because I didn't read Japanese, but it just seemed like we got the more mainstream and 'tame' titles...which was actually only very few. Point is, maybe we're only gaining access to the titles that actually aren't all that good and maybe they send us the 'grinding' games because they think westerners like that? Iunno.
I've just dowloaded and tried 3 games that are korean cookie-cutter versions of each other to a great extent: Deicide, Ferentus, and Last Chaos.
Apart from the terrible grinding, the interfaces were almost exactly the same. Click and move (although a few had keyboard control options for movement), the attack was all hack'n'slash, and the quests were poorly constructed, mob targetting is always at the top center of screen, etc. Not to mention a great deal of their screen formats/layouts appear to have been copied off of World of Warcraft.
Most of these games (after awhile you can just lump them all together since you can't really distinguish one from the other) are either free or in open beta atm. I guess if you want a free game then you can't expect to get something of quality. But surely, don't expect paying to play one of these things because there is no content whatsoever.
The gaming mentality in Asia is not the same as it is here, so I'll stay away from the Asian mmo's from now on.
Originally posted by vortigen7 I've just dowloaded and tried 3 games that are korean cookie-cutter versions of each other to a great extent: Deicide, Ferentus, and Last Chaos. Apart from the terrible grinding, the interfaces were almost exactly the same. Click and move (although a few had keyboard control options for movement), the attack was all hack'n'slash, and the quests were poorly constructed. Not to mention a great deal of their screen formats/layouts appear to have been copied off of World of Warcraft. Most of these games (after awhile you can just lump them all together since you can't really distinguish one from the other) are either free or in open beta atm. I guess if you want a free game then you can't expect to get something of quality. But surely, don't expect paying to play one of these things because there is no content whatsoever. The gaming mentality in Asia is not the same as it is here, so I'll stay away from the Asian mmo's from now on.
If you go on the internet and download 3 free, or beta, computer games you would easily be able to find the exact same kind of thing in an american game. Your opinion of the entire gaming populous of korea is being based on 3 games you downloaded for free and tried playing, if you tried to meet a girl and she judged you based on your 3 most basic features you probably wouldn't seem all that wonderful to her either. You can't judge an entire country's gaming style based on a few american version games you have tried.
If you go on the internet and download 3 free, or beta, computer games you would easily be able to find the exact same kind of thing in an american game. Your opinion of the entire gaming populous of korea is being based on 3 games you downloaded for free and tried playing, if you tried to meet a girl and she judged you based on your 3 most basic features you probably wouldn't seem all that wonderful to her either. You can't judge an entire country's gaming style based on a few american version games you have tried.
I wasn't about to list the entire line of Asian mmo's, but that's beside the point. I'm sure there are maybe one or two Asian games out there that have some uniqueness to them. But generally speaking, the majority do not...which is why I made my comments.
And for your information and just to get the facts straight, I was NOT particularly looking for Asian mmo's, NOR free mmo's. It just so happened that the games which I selected/downloaded were in open beta...so I was trying them out. These were random selections from a large list of available games, so based on selecting games at random from a list of worldwide developers, I think that my interpretations of the Asian market would be pretty good. I didn't zero in on Asian games. I was not interested in finding games that were free to play (typically I prefer Pay to Play). But as I said, I was just going down a list of games. And so I downloaded them, tried them, and did not like them. It was only after having done that with several games that I saw how cookie-cutter they were; practically carbon copies of the other, except perhaps for different graphics engines, or design positions of where a particular window might open on your screen. But I guarantee if you try these previously mentioned games you'll see how they're so similar.
WoW and EQ are completely different from each other; there is no way to confuse one with the other. Asheron's Call is different, Shadowbane is different, Anarchy Online is different. The line of games could go on and on. But you check out the Asian mmo's and you'll say to yourself "Now what's that name of this one?", and that's because it's almost impossible to tell one apart from the other. The Asian developers all probably went to the same programming schools and used the same game models, which is why there is almost no uniqueness or variety between games. Just look at the number of threads on here and mpogd.com regarding Asian/Korean mmo's that speak of endless grind, perhaps pretty graphics, but lack of content. Oh, and usually they are free, but of course that's probably because they're not worth paying for (note that I said "probably", which means that if you later choose to critique yet another one of my posts that you realize I'm not judging an entire nation, because apparently you get offended easily on trivial matters).
Again, just to reiterate, it is MY opinion. Did I ask you to change your mind about how you view Asian mmo's?Do you think this forum is going to change anyone's mind in regards to how they will look at games, just because someone else has a difference of opinion? I didn't ask for your opinion, but you gave it to me anyway. Just don't say that my opinion is wrong, simply because it differs from yours.
Lastly, in conclusion (addressing your statements), it would be interesting if you could list me 3 American mmo's that are cookie-cutter versions of each other. Oh, and try not to get a headache doing your research.
Originally posted by mozis If you go on the internet and download 3 free, or beta, computer games you would easily be able to find the exact same kind of thing in an american game. Your opinion of the entire gaming populous of korea is being based on 3 games you downloaded for free and tried playing, if you tried to meet a girl and she judged you based on your 3 most basic features you probably wouldn't seem all that wonderful to her either. You can't judge an entire country's gaming style based on a few american version games you have tried.
Lastly, in conclusion (addressing your statements), it would be interesting if you could list me 3 American mmo's that are cookie-cutter versions of each other? Oh, and try not to get a headache doing your research.
First of all I did not mean for this to be an offencive post, although it seems you took it that way I apologize for anything that you may have found insulting.
1. Runescape
2. DnL
3. D&D Online
Those are three games that may not be cookie cutters but are extremely similar to one another, in my opinion of course. I would once again like to apologize for my previous post which was not meant to be a personal attack.
Originally posted by vortigen7 I've just dowloaded and tried 3 games that are korean cookie-cutter versions of each other to a great extent: Deicide, Ferentus, and Last Chaos. Apart from the terrible grinding, the interfaces were almost exactly the same. Click and move (although a few had keyboard control options for movement), the attack was all hack'n'slash, and the quests were poorly constructed, mob targetting is always at the top center of screen, etc. Not to mention a great deal of their screen formats/layouts appear to have been copied off of World of Warcraft. Most of these games (after awhile you can just lump them all together since you can't really distinguish one from the other) are either free or in open beta atm. I guess if you want a free game then you can't expect to get something of quality. But surely, don't expect paying to play one of these things because there is no content whatsoever. The gaming mentality in Asia is not the same as it is here, so I'll stay away from the Asian mmo's from now on.
So you will now stay away from Asian MMO's (including Quality pay to play ones) because you played 3 low quality FREE mmorpg's.
I'm korean (not really) and I played Runescape, Tibia and the limited free version of Anarchy Online. The gaming mentality in the west is not the same as here, so I'll stay away from all western games from now on, because every western mmo is the same as Tibia, Runescape and AO.
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by vortigen7 I've just dowloaded and tried 3 games that are korean cookie-cutter versions of each other to a great extent: Deicide, Ferentus, and Last Chaos. Apart from the terrible grinding, the interfaces were almost exactly the same. Click and move (although a few had keyboard control options for movement), the attack was all hack'n'slash, and the quests were poorly constructed, mob targetting is always at the top center of screen, etc. Not to mention a great deal of their screen formats/layouts appear to have been copied off of World of Warcraft. Most of these games (after awhile you can just lump them all together since you can't really distinguish one from the other) are either free or in open beta atm. I guess if you want a free game then you can't expect to get something of quality. But surely, don't expect paying to play one of these things because there is no content whatsoever. The gaming mentality in Asia is not the same as it is here, so I'll stay away from the Asian mmo's from now on.
So you will now stay away from Asian MMO's (including Quality pay to play ones) because you played 3 low quality FREE mmorpg's.
I'm korean (not really) and I played Runescape, Tibia and the limited free version of Anarchy Online. The gaming mentality in the west is not the same as here, so I'll stay away from all western games from now on.
That's sort of what I tried to say but you have more stars than me so he is more likely to listen to you...
Originally posted by mozis First of all I did not mean for this to be an offencive post, although it seems you took it that way I apologize for anything that you may have found insulting. 1. Runescape 2. DnL 3. D&D Online Those are three games that may not be cookie cutters but are extremely similar to one another, in my opinion of course...
Incidentally, I've played all three of those games you've mentioned, and they are not the same by any means, relative to how Asian mmo's are almost always similar.
DnL was designed by NPCube, a French company, for one. Also, there is no way these 3 particular games could EVER be confused with each other. They all have different interface systems, different mapping systems, different means of character creation (DnL shouldn't have even been mentioned here in the first place, because that game was an absolute bomb), different questing systems, etc. Even their graphic engines are radically different. Also DDO is modelled after the latest version of the D&D rules, and to me personally is not really in the same genre as DnL attempted to be; DDO was instanced-based, whereas DnL was an open world. Also, Runescape is a browser-based game, is it not?The games you mentioned are all distinctly different, whereas the three Asian games I had mentioned previously are almost identical in all aspects.
I was not LOOKING for Asian mmo's. Like I said, I just randomly went down a list of games...both here and on mpogd.com, and it happened to be the games that I did select were Asian games in beta, or free. I played them all and made my interpretation from trying them. But I believe that it's a good indication that the next Asian mmo I look at is probably going to be almost identical to previous one.
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by vortigen7 I've just dowloaded and tried 3 games that are korean cookie-cutter versions of each other to a great extent: Deicide, Ferentus, and Last Chaos. ...were almost exactly the same.. Most of these games (after awhile you can just lump them all together since you can't really distinguish one from the other) are either free or in open beta atm. I guess if you want a free game then you can't expect to get something of quality. But surely, don't expect paying to play one of these things because there is no content whatsoever. The gaming mentality in Asia is not the same as it is here, so I'll stay away from the Asian mmo's from now on.
So you will now stay away from Asian MMO's (including Quality pay to play ones) because you played 3 low quality FREE mmorpg's.
I'm korean (not really) and I played Runescape, Tibia and the limited free version of Anarchy Online. The gaming mentality in the west is not the same as here, so I'll stay away from all western games from now on, because every western mmo is the same as Tibia, Runescape and AO.
Do you see where I'm going to?
Again...it's my opinion. It doesn't matter how many "stars" you have for what you've posted previously, or how long you've been a member on here. Like I already previously explained, I went randomly down a list and selected some games to download. All three turned out to be almost identical, which is a good indication that the next Asian mmo will be the same thing. 'nuff said.
As far as your game selections, like I mentioned in a previous post, Runescape is a browser-based game so it's not really in the same league as real mmo's. And Tibia I did not care to play, simply from what I'd seen on their website. And as far as Anarchy Online goes, it was one of the original mmo's (Ultima Online, Meridian 59, EQ1 having come previously). At least it was one of the original sci-fi mmo's.
Obviously you are only trying to put your two-cents in here to knock my opinion. If you don't like my opinion, fine. If I choose to stay away from Asian mmo's how does that affect you any? Is my decision really that important to how you're going to sleep at night?
And as far as "western" mmo's go, I'd certainly expect them to be better than the Asian mmo's because at least they're all DIFFERENT...which was the main point of my post, and which you've obviously missed.
Lastly...did I mention that the games I downloaded to try were in BETA? So yes...beta is free.
I'm korean (not really) and I played Runescape, Tibia and the limited free version of Anarchy Online. The gaming mentality in the west is not the same as here, so I'll stay away from all western games from now on, because every western mmo is the same as Tibia, Runescape and AO.
While you are being sarcastic, I still think that statement is true to a large degree, and I further believe that the wholesale dismissal of games from certain regions does in fact occur frequently. Certainly there are Western gamers who enjoy Eastern games, and vice versa, but I think there's a much larger segment of the population that would try the games if only the importers (or developers, in the case of self-published games) recognized the fact that the different regions of the world are looking for slightly different things from their games.
If you're trying to sell women's electric razors, you don't put a ton of lights and switches on them and advertise how powerful they are; if you're trying to sell men's electric razors, you don't make them pink, three inches wide and then advertise how gentle they are on the skin; if you're a British car manufacturer trying to sell cars in America, you don't just ship them over with the steering wheel on the right side of the car; if you're a college student writing a paper on comparative literature for your professor, you don't write in stream-of-consciousness as if it were a diary entry. It's all about knowing your target audience and creating a product that target audience will find desirable. I don't think either the West or the East has done an adequate job of tailoring their products to their "new" audiences before shipping them overseas.
I wrote a post on this in the 9 Dragons forums, but it's worth mentioning my position again here. The idea behind 9 Dragons sounded fantastic to me; when I first read about it, the thought of playing a martial arts character living in period China seemed wonderful. The more I read about the game, though, the more discouraged I became. When I read the first article, I was ready to dig my credit card out of my purse...but then I read the next articles featuring gender-based classes, poor customization, extremely limited crafting, click-to-move controls, and other traditionally Korean features, and my interest in the game completely evaporated. There is an audience for Asian games in the West, and presumably Western games in the East, but it could be significantly larger if only the people trying to sell them realized that, while we're all gamers, we don't all want the same things.
Originally posted by vortigen7 Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by vortigen7 I've just dowloaded and tried 3 games that are korean cookie-cutter versions of each other to a great extent: Deicide, Ferentus, and Last Chaos. ...were almost exactly the same.. Most of these games (after awhile you can just lump them all together since you can't really distinguish one from the other) are either free or in open beta atm. I guess if you want a free game then you can't expect to get something of quality. But surely, don't expect paying to play one of these things because there is no content whatsoever. The gaming mentality in Asia is not the same as it is here, so I'll stay away from the Asian mmo's from now on.
So you will now stay away from Asian MMO's (including Quality pay to play ones) because you played 3 low quality FREE mmorpg's.
I'm korean (not really) and I played Runescape, Tibia and the limited free version of Anarchy Online. The gaming mentality in the west is not the same as here, so I'll stay away from all western games from now on, because every western mmo is the same as Tibia, Runescape and AO.
Do you see where I'm going to?
Again...it's my opinion. It doesn't matter how many "stars" you have for what you've posted previously, or how long you've been a member on here. Like I already previously explained, I went randomly down a list and selected some games to download. All three were almost identical, which is a good indication that the next Asian mmo will be the same thing. 'nuff said.
Agreed. I played 3 western MMO's, so it is a good indication that EVE online and Auto Assault are the exact same like Tibia and Runescape.
As far as your game selections, like I mentioned in a previous post, Runescape is a browser-based game so it's not really in the same league as real mmo's. And Tibia I did not care to play, simply from what I'd seen on their website. And as far as Anarchy Online goes, it was one of the original mmo's (Ultima Online, Meridian 59, EQ1 having come previously). At least it was one of the original sci-fi mmo's.
It doesn't matter if they are browser based, if you played them or not, or if they are new or old. it is wrong to say all western MMORPG's are crap just because I played those 3.
Obviously you are only trying to put your two-cents in here to knock my opinion. If you don't like my opinion, fine. If I choose to stay away from Asian mmo's how does that affect you any? Is my decision really that important to how you're going to sleep at night?
And as far as "western" mmo's go, I'd certainly expect them to be better than the Asian mmo's because at least they're all DIFFERENT...which was the main point of my post, and which you've obviously missed.
And Asian MMORPG's are not? how do you know that? let me tell you, you don't know. a big part of Asian MMO's are lineage clones, but they also have quite some original MMO's. Most Western MMo's are a rip off of Everquest, with only a few exceptions. all western mmorpg's diffrent? bullshit. not any more then Korean MMO's.
Lastly...did I mention that the games I downloaded to try were in BETA? So yes...beta is free.
Its already confirmed that those games will STAY free.
Originally posted by Melendu Well they dont suck but how come they all have that TERRRRIBLE grind? honestly mmorpgs are still video games videogames are suppose to be fun, i really dont know any western mmorpg where the grind is that bad, not even EQs grind is that bad. my god.
There was a study I read somewhere (or heard on a podcast) where they took a survey across the world on the happiest places. They then took this information and compared those countries happiness rataing with the types of games those countries liked/produced. Iceland was rated one of the top (if not the top) happy countries and they created EvE. The US was 23ish and we all know the games from here. Countries like Japan and Korea are happiness rating of like 100-103. They suggested that countries that are not happy are more apt to play games that happier countries would not.
So all in all it makes sense that those countries have games other countries don't like.
This could explain why some people enjoy games you might consider bad because they aren't as happy so even the ... less fun games... seem fun.
Originally posted by vortigen7 Originally posted by Gameloading
Like I already previously explained, I went randomly down a list and selected some games to download. All three were almost identical, which is a good indication that the next Asian mmo will be the same thing. 'nuff said. Agreed. I played 3 western MMO's, so it is a good indication that EVE online and Auto Assault are the exact same like Tibia and Runescape.
Can you read? I mean, can you really read? I tend to wonder about that because you're making comments without actually reading what has been said. Again...I had said I went down a list RANDOMLY and because of the 3 random games that I played, and which happened to be Asian mmo's...that it was a good INDICATION that the next Asian mmo will be the same. Also, read the post previous to yours. Even that poster mentioned some of the same things...referring to traditional korean games, and even mentioned what "traditional" meant (same click-to-move, etc.). Question: are there "traditional" western mmo's? No. Because they're different and they strive to be different. They don't try to just become a clone.
Your completely missing the point. please read the post again. the fact here remains you said you played 3 Asian MMORPG which happen to be free, you judge all of them by saying you will never touch another asian MMO again.and your right about how Western mmorpgs are not cloning each other. I mean, World of Warcraft and EQ2 clearly aren't Everquest 1 clones. Daoc clearly isn't an Everquest clone with PVP thrown in it. [/sarcasm]
As far as your game selections, like I mentioned in a previous post, Runescape is a browser-based game so it's not really in the same league as real mmo's. And Tibia I did not care to play, simply from what I'd seen on their website. And as far as Anarchy Online goes, it was one of the original mmo's (Ultima Online, Meridian 59, EQ1 having come previously). At least it was one of the original sci-fi mmo's.
It doesn't matter if they are browser based, if you played them or not, or if they are new or old. it is wrong to say all western MMORPG's are crap just because I played those 3.
And yes, it does matter if it's browser based, because I was showing how all three of those games (the non-asian ones) are DIFFERENT from each other. Runescape is browser based, whereas, DnL and DDO were not. And I mentioned playing them so that you'd realize that I'm not speaking from lack of experience with these games. I've played them, so I've based an opinion on something I know about. Unlike you, because you make comments without verifying facts, or doing research, or drawing infernces from what is actually being said as opposed to what you want to think is being said. And as far as Anarchy Online was concerned, I mentioned that it is an old game...and as such could not be systematically compared to DnL or DDO...which are much newer games (although again, DnL was actually garbage).
I am not talking about DnL and DDO. I am talking about Runescape, Tibia and AO here. and you are completely missing the point here. It does NOT matter if Runescape is a browser game or not. I picked 3 random western games, didn't like them and will never play a western game again. thats exactly what you have done.
Obviously you are only trying to put your two-cents in here to knock my opinion. If you don't like my opinion, fine. If I choose to stay away from Asian mmo's how does that affect you any? Is my decision really that important to how you're going to sleep at night?
And as far as "western" mmo's go, I'd certainly expect them to be better than the Asian mmo's because at least they're all DIFFERENT...which was the main point of my post, and which you've obviously missed.
And Asian MMORPG's are not? how do you know that? let me tell you, you don't know. a big part of Asian MMO's are lineage clones, but they also have quite some original MMO's. Most Western MMo's are a rip off of Everquest, with only a few exceptions. all western mmorpg's diffrent? bullshit.
Hehe. Obviously you're getting upset, because you're resorting to cursing. And just like you said...a big part of Asian mmo's are lineage clones. But what you're INCORRECT about is how most western mmo's are everqeust rip-offs. Hehe, again, you don't know your facts. UO was the first massively multiplayer mmo, although it was 2D. This was closely followed by Meridian 59, the first real 3D mmo. If anything, it was EQ copied alot from Meridian 59, although they had a better graphics engine. By the way, Star Wars Galaxies, a fellow Sony product to EQ, copies off using the idea of mission terminals from Anarchy Online, which had been out long before SWG. There will always be future versions of games that borrow ideas from their predecessors, but they do not all come out and become clones of one another to the extent of the Korean/Asian mmo's.
I don't think the word "bullshit" is considered cursing since 1875. again, did I say ALL Western MMO's are copies of Everquest? No, I didn't. most western games copied things with Everquest in mind. Star Wars Galaxies used to have original idea's, but (with exception of the combat) is now much more like World of Warcraft. and World of Warcraft is, you geussed it, an Everquest clone.
Lastly...did I mention that the games I downloaded to try were in BETA? So yes...beta is free.
Its already confirmed that those games will STAY free.
Confirmed or not, you missed the point yet again. Stay on topic. You were trying to say that I had based my opinion off of FREE games, and thus my opinions about the Asian mmo market could not be taken seriously, because some Asian P2P mmo's are apparently better (in your opinion) than their F2P counterparts. However, my point had been that the games I downloaded were in beta...and "beta" is always free. If they stay F2P or become P2P, it's a beta now...and like I said time and time again...I was just randomly looking for games with no particular distinction of the games national origin or pay schedule.
Again, it does not matter if the games were in beta or if you were looking for Asian MMO's or not. the FACT remains is that you apperently now think all Asian MMO's are crap because you had a bad experience with a few free ones.
Gameloading, whatever man, lol. I have my opinions about Asian mmo's and you have yours. But if you expect everyone to share YOUR opinion, wake up. You're not that important.
Originally posted by vortigen7 Gameloading, whatever man, lol. I have my opinions about Asian mmo's and you have yours. But if you expect everyone to share YOUR opinion, wake up. You're not that important.
I am not asking for people to share my opinions, but your really shouldn't be so narrow minded.
Here's my take on it.......again. First a few things to keep in mind. 1) The North American does not get all the MMO's from Asia. 2) free to play MMO's are generally NOT representitive of Asian MMO's. They are in fact a secondary product. Why is it that the U.S. market only gets the secondary products? Because as a market we suck. Aside from ONE single MMO, everything put out by our devs does not pull the numbers the Asians consider worthwile. This scares them off. Free to Play has nothing to loose.
Now here is what I think. (lighting bolt) Both types of games (Asian and Western) for the most part.....suck. Asian games tend to be grindy in hopes of building communities. They overdo it. Western games are sloppy and unfocused. You can pretty much assume a western game will release incomplete or have some major kick in the pants. Once the game is launched you can expect about a dozen "revamps" of one sort or another over the next year or so.
Asian games for a while have tended (this doesn't mean all) to follow the L2 design philosophy. Why? Well the game had the largest subscriber base of any MMO measuring in the millions. Still over a million to this day in Asia. How could they go wrong?
Western games have tended to follow the old EQ design philosophy. Similar but slightly different. Both are grinder based design principals. The western market, for the most part has fallen on its face time after time. We have ONE high quality title under our belt....WoW. We could get into a big debate why but basically its a well made game thats fun to play. (In Asia, it helped that they undercut everyone elses sub fees by an average of 20-25%) Remember the vast majority of WoW players are in Asia NOT the western market.
We are just as guilty of the "clone" syndrome......even today....looked at Vanguard lately? Western deisigners keep following that EQ design principal...why?.....well it was the closest thing we had to a success.
So shame on everyone for "not thinking outside of the box".
I will not buy into this moronic "Korean games suck" topics until someone can show me all the high quality Western MMO's.
The two most recent failures. RFO and D&DO both crap games...one Western, one Asian...so there, stick that in your pipe and smoke it. If you don't like Asian games, don't play them. If you don't like point and click movement (another popular but equally moronic topic) don't play them.
Personally I would rather judge a game by its individual merits not by its country of origin but hey, I'm silly like that.
Originally posted by Nadril I love the ignorance in this thread. FYI guys, Koreans complain more about the grind in Lineage II than WE do. So stop with your steryotypical replys, "lol koreans grind!111!!".
Well fuck, someone out there isn't listening to them, 'cos they keep churning out games that are carbon copies of each other.
Why do they keep on making games like this then, if their own people bitch about it more than Western players do?
What is it then? For every guy that bitches about a grindfest, three more email the companies in question and say "oh more baby, please"?
Originally posted by Nadril I love the ignorance in this thread. FYI guys, Koreans complain more about the grind in Lineage II than WE do. So stop with your steryotypical replys, "lol koreans grind!111!!".
Well fuck, someone out there isn't listening to them, 'cos they keep churning out games that are carbon copies of each other.
Why do they keep on making games like this then, if their own people bitch about it more than Western players do?
The same reason western devs keep making similar CRAP games....because it worked once.
What is it then? For every guy that bitches about a grindfest, three more email the companies in question and say "oh more baby, please"?
Could you please name me some of the fantastic western games that are so much better???
As I said a few post up, none of them are up to par...western or Asian.
Ignoring all the Lineage2 fanboys, there are qualities of Asian mmorpgs that do give them a badname;- Point to click, anime graphics, intensive grind, potion-happy, bad translations. Thats not to say, they can't have some good releases, because they can and do. For example, GunzOnline, Warrock, and FFXI. Yes ok Gunzonline and Warrock aren't strictly mmos, or maybe not at all but they are very good albeit full of certain problems(lag).
Comments
I've just dowloaded and tried 3 games that are korean cookie-cutter versions of each other to a great extent: Deicide, Ferentus, and Last Chaos.
Apart from the terrible grinding, the interfaces were almost exactly the same. Click and move (although a few had keyboard control options for movement), the attack was all hack'n'slash, and the quests were poorly constructed, mob targetting is always at the top center of screen, etc. Not to mention a great deal of their screen formats/layouts appear to have been copied off of World of Warcraft.
Most of these games (after awhile you can just lump them all together since you can't really distinguish one from the other) are either free or in open beta atm. I guess if you want a free game then you can't expect to get something of quality. But surely, don't expect paying to play one of these things because there is no content whatsoever.
The gaming mentality in Asia is not the same as it is here, so I'll stay away from the Asian mmo's from now on.
I wasn't about to list the entire line of Asian mmo's, but that's beside the point. I'm sure there are maybe one or two Asian games out there that have some uniqueness to them. But generally speaking, the majority do not...which is why I made my comments.
And for your information and just to get the facts straight, I was NOT particularly looking for Asian mmo's, NOR free mmo's. It just so happened that the games which I selected/downloaded were in open beta...so I was trying them out. These were random selections from a large list of available games, so based on selecting games at random from a list of worldwide developers, I think that my interpretations of the Asian market would be pretty good. I didn't zero in on Asian games. I was not interested in finding games that were free to play (typically I prefer Pay to Play). But as I said, I was just going down a list of games. And so I downloaded them, tried them, and did not like them. It was only after having done that with several games that I saw how cookie-cutter they were; practically carbon copies of the other, except perhaps for different graphics engines, or design positions of where a particular window might open on your screen. But I guarantee if you try these previously mentioned games you'll see how they're so similar.
WoW and EQ are completely different from each other; there is no way to confuse one with the other. Asheron's Call is different, Shadowbane is different, Anarchy Online is different. The line of games could go on and on. But you check out the Asian mmo's and you'll say to yourself "Now what's that name of this one?", and that's because it's almost impossible to tell one apart from the other. The Asian developers all probably went to the same programming schools and used the same game models, which is why there is almost no uniqueness or variety between games. Just look at the number of threads on here and mpogd.com regarding Asian/Korean mmo's that speak of endless grind, perhaps pretty graphics, but lack of content. Oh, and usually they are free, but of course that's probably because they're not worth paying for (note that I said "probably", which means that if you later choose to critique yet another one of my posts that you realize I'm not judging an entire nation, because apparently you get offended easily on trivial matters).
Again, just to reiterate, it is MY opinion. Did I ask you to change your mind about how you view Asian mmo's?Do you think this forum is going to change anyone's mind in regards to how they will look at games, just because someone else has a difference of opinion? I didn't ask for your opinion, but you gave it to me anyway. Just don't say that my opinion is wrong, simply because it differs from yours.
Lastly, in conclusion (addressing your statements), it would be interesting if you could list me 3 American mmo's that are cookie-cutter versions of each other. Oh, and try not to get a headache doing your research.
Lastly, in conclusion (addressing your statements), it would be interesting if you could list me 3 American mmo's that are cookie-cutter versions of each other? Oh, and try not to get a headache doing your research.First of all I did not mean for this to be an offencive post, although it seems you took it that way I apologize for anything that you may have found insulting.
1. Runescape
2. DnL
3. D&D Online
Those are three games that may not be cookie cutters but are extremely similar to one another, in my opinion of course. I would once again like to apologize for my previous post which was not meant to be a personal attack.
I'm korean (not really) and I played Runescape, Tibia and the limited free version of Anarchy Online. The gaming mentality in the west is not the same as here, so I'll stay away from all western games from now on, because every western mmo is the same as Tibia, Runescape and AO.
Do you see where I'm going to?
I'm korean (not really) and I played Runescape, Tibia and the limited free version of Anarchy Online. The gaming mentality in the west is not the same as here, so I'll stay away from all western games from now on.
That's sort of what I tried to say but you have more stars than me so he is more likely to listen to you...
Incidentally, I've played all three of those games you've mentioned, and they are not the same by any means, relative to how Asian mmo's are almost always similar.
DnL was designed by NPCube, a French company, for one. Also, there is no way these 3 particular games could EVER be confused with each other. They all have different interface systems, different mapping systems, different means of character creation (DnL shouldn't have even been mentioned here in the first place, because that game was an absolute bomb), different questing systems, etc. Even their graphic engines are radically different. Also DDO is modelled after the latest version of the D&D rules, and to me personally is not really in the same genre as DnL attempted to be; DDO was instanced-based, whereas DnL was an open world. Also, Runescape is a browser-based game, is it not?The games you mentioned are all distinctly different, whereas the three Asian games I had mentioned previously are almost identical in all aspects.
I was not LOOKING for Asian mmo's. Like I said, I just randomly went down a list of games...both here and on mpogd.com, and it happened to be the games that I did select were Asian games in beta, or free. I played them all and made my interpretation from trying them. But I believe that it's a good indication that the next Asian mmo I look at is probably going to be almost identical to previous one.
I'm korean (not really) and I played Runescape, Tibia and the limited free version of Anarchy Online. The gaming mentality in the west is not the same as here, so I'll stay away from all western games from now on, because every western mmo is the same as Tibia, Runescape and AO.
Do you see where I'm going to?
Again...it's my opinion. It doesn't matter how many "stars" you have for what you've posted previously, or how long you've been a member on here. Like I already previously explained, I went randomly down a list and selected some games to download. All three turned out to be almost identical, which is a good indication that the next Asian mmo will be the same thing. 'nuff said.
As far as your game selections, like I mentioned in a previous post, Runescape is a browser-based game so it's not really in the same league as real mmo's. And Tibia I did not care to play, simply from what I'd seen on their website. And as far as Anarchy Online goes, it was one of the original mmo's (Ultima Online, Meridian 59, EQ1 having come previously). At least it was one of the original sci-fi mmo's.
Obviously you are only trying to put your two-cents in here to knock my opinion. If you don't like my opinion, fine. If I choose to stay away from Asian mmo's how does that affect you any? Is my decision really that important to how you're going to sleep at night?
And as far as "western" mmo's go, I'd certainly expect them to be better than the Asian mmo's because at least they're all DIFFERENT...which was the main point of my post, and which you've obviously missed.
Lastly...did I mention that the games I downloaded to try were in BETA? So yes...beta is free.
If you're trying to sell women's electric razors, you don't put a ton of lights and switches on them and advertise how powerful they are; if you're trying to sell men's electric razors, you don't make them pink, three inches wide and then advertise how gentle they are on the skin; if you're a British car manufacturer trying to sell cars in America, you don't just ship them over with the steering wheel on the right side of the car; if you're a college student writing a paper on comparative literature for your professor, you don't write in stream-of-consciousness as if it were a diary entry. It's all about knowing your target audience and creating a product that target audience will find desirable. I don't think either the West or the East has done an adequate job of tailoring their products to their "new" audiences before shipping them overseas.
I wrote a post on this in the 9 Dragons forums, but it's worth mentioning my position again here. The idea behind 9 Dragons sounded fantastic to me; when I first read about it, the thought of playing a martial arts character living in period China seemed wonderful. The more I read about the game, though, the more discouraged I became. When I read the first article, I was ready to dig my credit card out of my purse...but then I read the next articles featuring gender-based classes, poor customization, extremely limited crafting, click-to-move controls, and other traditionally Korean features, and my interest in the game completely evaporated. There is an audience for Asian games in the West, and presumably Western games in the East, but it could be significantly larger if only the people trying to sell them realized that, while we're all gamers, we don't all want the same things.
I'm korean (not really) and I played Runescape, Tibia and the limited free version of Anarchy Online. The gaming mentality in the west is not the same as here, so I'll stay away from all western games from now on, because every western mmo is the same as Tibia, Runescape and AO.
Do you see where I'm going to?
Again...it's my opinion. It doesn't matter how many "stars" you have for what you've posted previously, or how long you've been a member on here. Like I already previously explained, I went randomly down a list and selected some games to download. All three were almost identical, which is a good indication that the next Asian mmo will be the same thing. 'nuff said.
Agreed. I played 3 western MMO's, so it is a good indication that EVE online and Auto Assault are the exact same like Tibia and Runescape.As far as your game selections, like I mentioned in a previous post, Runescape is a browser-based game so it's not really in the same league as real mmo's. And Tibia I did not care to play, simply from what I'd seen on their website. And as far as Anarchy Online goes, it was one of the original mmo's (Ultima Online, Meridian 59, EQ1 having come previously). At least it was one of the original sci-fi mmo's.
It doesn't matter if they are browser based, if you played them or not, or if they are new or old. it is wrong to say all western MMORPG's are crap just because I played those 3.
Obviously you are only trying to put your two-cents in here to knock my opinion. If you don't like my opinion, fine. If I choose to stay away from Asian mmo's how does that affect you any? Is my decision really that important to how you're going to sleep at night?
And as far as "western" mmo's go, I'd certainly expect them to be better than the Asian mmo's because at least they're all DIFFERENT...which was the main point of my post, and which you've obviously missed.
And Asian MMORPG's are not? how do you know that? let me tell you, you don't know. a big part of Asian MMO's are lineage clones, but they also have quite some original MMO's. Most Western MMo's are a rip off of Everquest, with only a few exceptions. all western mmorpg's diffrent? bullshit. not any more then Korean MMO's.
Lastly...did I mention that the games I downloaded to try were in BETA? So yes...beta is free.
Its already confirmed that those games will STAY free.
So all in all it makes sense that those countries have games other countries don't like.
This could explain why some people enjoy games you might consider bad because they aren't as happy so even the ... less fun games... seem fun.
http://www.greycouncil.org/
Well you have your opinions, I have mine.
Can you read? I mean, can you really read? I tend to wonder about that because you're making comments without actually reading what has been said. Again...I had said I went down a list RANDOMLY and because of the 3 random games that I played, and which happened to be Asian mmo's...that it was a good INDICATION that the next Asian mmo will be the same. Also, read the post previous to yours. Even that poster mentioned some of the same things...referring to traditional korean games, and even mentioned what "traditional" meant (same click-to-move, etc.). Question: are there "traditional" western mmo's? No. Because they're different and they strive to be different. They don't try to just become a clone.
Your completely missing the point. please read the post again. the fact here remains you said you played 3 Asian MMORPG which happen to be free, you judge all of them by saying you will never touch another asian MMO again.and your right about how Western mmorpgs are not cloning each other. I mean, World of Warcraft and EQ2 clearly aren't Everquest 1 clones. Daoc clearly isn't an Everquest clone with PVP thrown in it. [/sarcasm]
As far as your game selections, like I mentioned in a previous post, Runescape is a browser-based game so it's not really in the same league as real mmo's. And Tibia I did not care to play, simply from what I'd seen on their website. And as far as Anarchy Online goes, it was one of the original mmo's (Ultima Online, Meridian 59, EQ1 having come previously). At least it was one of the original sci-fi mmo's.
It doesn't matter if they are browser based, if you played them or not, or if they are new or old. it is wrong to say all western MMORPG's are crap just because I played those 3.
Now thanks for telling me how I'm supposed to think.
Ah the weekly Korean games suck topic..........
Here's my take on it.......again. First a few things to keep in mind. 1) The North American does not get all the MMO's from Asia. 2) free to play MMO's are generally NOT representitive of Asian MMO's. They are in fact a secondary product. Why is it that the U.S. market only gets the secondary products? Because as a market we suck. Aside from ONE single MMO, everything put out by our devs does not pull the numbers the Asians consider worthwile. This scares them off. Free to Play has nothing to loose.
Now here is what I think. (lighting bolt) Both types of games (Asian and Western) for the most part.....suck. Asian games tend to be grindy in hopes of building communities. They overdo it. Western games are sloppy and unfocused. You can pretty much assume a western game will release incomplete or have some major kick in the pants. Once the game is launched you can expect about a dozen "revamps" of one sort or another over the next year or so.
Asian games for a while have tended (this doesn't mean all) to follow the L2 design philosophy. Why? Well the game had the largest subscriber base of any MMO measuring in the millions. Still over a million to this day in Asia. How could they go wrong?
Western games have tended to follow the old EQ design philosophy. Similar but slightly different. Both are grinder based design principals. The western market, for the most part has fallen on its face time after time. We have ONE high quality title under our belt....WoW. We could get into a big debate why but basically its a well made game thats fun to play. (In Asia, it helped that they undercut everyone elses sub fees by an average of 20-25%) Remember the vast majority of WoW players are in Asia NOT the western market.
http://www.cesspit.net/drupal/storeroom/misc/wowfeecut.gif
We are just as guilty of the "clone" syndrome......even today....looked at Vanguard lately? Western deisigners keep following that EQ design principal...why?.....well it was the closest thing we had to a success.
So shame on everyone for "not thinking outside of the box".
I will not buy into this moronic "Korean games suck" topics until someone can show me all the high quality Western MMO's.
The two most recent failures. RFO and D&DO both crap games...one Western, one Asian...so there, stick that in your pipe and smoke it. If you don't like Asian games, don't play them. If you don't like point and click movement (another popular but equally moronic topic) don't play them.
Personally I would rather judge a game by its individual merits not by its country of origin but hey, I'm silly like that.
Well fuck, someone out there isn't listening to them, 'cos they keep churning out games that are carbon copies of each other.
Why do they keep on making games like this then, if their own people bitch about it more than Western players do?
What is it then? For every guy that bitches about a grindfest, three more email the companies in question and say "oh more baby, please"?
Well fuck, someone out there isn't listening to them, 'cos they keep churning out games that are carbon copies of each other.
Why do they keep on making games like this then, if their own people bitch about it more than Western players do?
The same reason western devs keep making similar CRAP games....because it worked once.
What is it then? For every guy that bitches about a grindfest, three more email the companies in question and say "oh more baby, please"?
Could you please name me some of the fantastic western games that are so much better???
As I said a few post up, none of them are up to par...western or Asian.
Dont blame the koreans, the KIMCHI made them do it!!!