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The Official "We're Angry at SOE" thread

StraddenStradden Managing EditorMember CommonPosts: 6,696

Hi Guys,

It seems as though there has been quite a bit of SOE hate recently, and it has gotten to the point where it is taking over the forums for SOE games. As a result, I am creating this sticky where people can vent their frustrations on this subject.

Please do not continue to hijack other threads with this issue. Also, remember to have a look at our Rules of Conduct regarding what is ok to say and what is not.

Cheers,

Jon "Stradden" Wood, Community Manager

Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com

«1345

Comments

  • dinkdink Member Posts: 438

    Well, here's the thing.  This isn't an SOE game, so maybe this shouldn't be in the G&H forums.

    SOE is publishing the boxes and the CDs that the games come on, and distributing them to retailers.  They aren't doing ANYTHING ELSE for Gods & Heroes at all.  Perpetual Entertainment maintains 100% complete creative control, and will maintina their own game servers, customer service, and billing services.  G&H will also never be a part of the SOE stable of games for the Station Pass. . .   because it isn't an SOE game.  SOE is basically the company that PE contracted to print their CDs. . .  nothing more.

    It's the same deal that hundreds of developers make all the time with publishers like Ubisoft, EA, and Microsoft.

    So, while you totally might need this on the Vanguard or SWG forums, I dont think it applies to Gods & Heroes.

  • LaserwolfLaserwolf Member Posts: 2,383

    I really could care less about SOE. Even if they had something to do with gameplay, which they don't, they are out there providing us with MMORPGs. G&H with SOE would lack advertisement, which means less players, which means a hell of a lot less fun.

    SOE is really just giving players what they want. Problem is most players don't know what they want. No Death Penalty, Leveling, Instanced Quests, Item Sets, Instant Travel, Consentual PVP, No Stealing/Looting sounds nice. It sounds like less frustration. However it also equals less fun for any type of player.

    But the biggest complaint I hear about SOE is poor Customer Service. I NEVER call customer service. If I can't log-in I check the web for a reason and a time of resolution. If I miss a couple of days I don't ask for a refund. If I only play a few days before quiting but pay for a month of service I don't call up looking for a refund. People that do that are assholes. Plain and simple. People that don't like SOE with a passion are the same people who I refer to in the second and third paragraph. You have what we call a love-hate relationship with SOE. You fuel the fire that burns you. My problem is that I don't fuel anything but still get burned. That pisses me off.

    image

  • shaishai Member Posts: 34

    Why write a book about SOE's downsides.

    WHEN IT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE SOE IS ONLY PRINTING THE CDS AND BOXES FOR GODS & HEROES.  EVEN IF SOE KILLED YOUR PARENTS, THEY STILL MANAGE TO PRINT CDS AND BOXES OKAY.

  • DeodatusDeodatus Member Posts: 27
    Thanks Stradden!

    We just want to stress that the game is ours and ours alone.  :)

    There's not much left to say on that front!


  • MalyssMalyss Member Posts: 27

    The publishing is being handled by Sony Platform Publishing, not SOE. I know they both fall under Sony, but they are different companies.

    Sony Platform publishing has nothing to do with the game itself. PE has 100% creative control, will handle billing, customer service, server maintenance, game creation, etc, etc.

    So for those that hate SOE with a passion, please at least take the time to give Perpetual Entertainment a chance. Swing by the official boards at http://community.godsandheroes.com .

    Feel free to swing by and visit us as well at http://gnh.stratics.com .

    Take a deeper look at the game itself, add into the equation the fact that SOE has nothing to do with it, and you may just find this game at the top of your wish list. :)

    image

  • SalvatorisSalvatoris Member Posts: 1,360

    Is there anywhere I we can see the official word on Sony's involvement? Will they not be runnning the servers, will the payments go through Sony? Will Sony get a piece of my monthly payment if I play this game?

    If they really are just doing the physical publishing of the product, i have to say... there are probably hundreds of other companies they could have found for the job, companies that dont have a solid track record of ruining every MMO they touch.

  • MalyssMalyss Member Posts: 27
    Per the Gods & Heroes FAQ, which can be found here : http://community.godsandheroes.com/2006/04/frequenty_asked_questions_upda.html#WhoIsPublishing

    "
    What is the relationship between Perpetual Entertainment and Sony
    Platform Publishing and how involved will they be in the direction of
    the game?


    Perpetual Entertainment is designing, developing, supporting and
    producing Gods & Heroes: Rome Rising, while Sony Platform
    Publishing is ensuring that our game is available in brick-and-mortar
    stores throughout Northern America. They are also handling our
    marketing and PR for North America."

    In other words, Sony Platform Publishing will ONLY be burning CD's, putting them in boxes, shipping them around the country/world, and doing some PR/marketing.

    Perpetual Entertainment controls 100% of the game, the game servers, customer service, billing, etc, etc, etc. If you can think of anything a game company does for a game, besides what is listed above for Sony Platform Publishing, then Perpetual Entertainment is handling it.

    Hope that clears some things up :)


    image

  • SalvatorisSalvatoris Member Posts: 1,360

    That's good to hear.. All the Vanbois are trying to say the same thing, that Sony is just printing the the disks and distributing them... that is of course not true in regards to vanguard. SOE is hosting the servers and handling all account maintenance and billing. The only thing they aren't doing (yet) is developing the game.

    I personally won't deal with SOE at all. If they handle server hosting, or if I would have to go through them for billing, support community forums, or even use launchpad to start the game, i simply will not touch it.

  • DanaDana Member Posts: 2,415


    Originally posted by Salvatoris

    Is there anywhere I we can see the official word on Sony's involvement? Will they not be runnning the servers, will the payments go through Sony? Will Sony get a piece of my monthly payment if I play this game?
    If they really are just doing the physical publishing of the product, i have to say... there are probably hundreds of other companies they could have found for the job, companies that dont have a solid track record of ruining every MMO they touch.


    We also asked them quite directly and addressed it in our E3 article: here.

    Dana Massey
    Formerly of MMORPG.com
    Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios

  • SalvatorisSalvatoris Member Posts: 1,360

    Sounds like just enough involvement to make me feel hypocritical if i buy the game, but not enough to prompt me to flame it on their forums.... other than to say just this one time that i think it is a mistake to listen to any input from Sony, as mentioned in your write-up.

    I cant think of anything they really do better than anyone else. Sure, you can argue that they never botch packaging and shipping of the product... but i would venture a guess that those things are mainly contracted out anyway. I just really can't understand why anyone would go to them for those particular services, if that was all they needed. I'm sure that i am part of a small minority that won't buy a game if Sony has any involvement in it, it's just a matter of principal for me at this point.

  • dinkdink Member Posts: 438

    Salvatoris - My guess is that SOE offered them a sweet deal in order to help their brand identity.  Perpetual Entertainment get the games printed and distributed at a low price, and SOE gets to be associated with an MMO that is looking awesome and that is being made by Stieg (read: money in the bank).

    Would you really not buy a game that was owned by SOE if it was like a universally rated insansely good game?  I'm not saying G&H will be that good - though it looked great at E3 - but I'm just curious to see if people's anymosity is so great that they'd consider not purchasing a game associated with SOE even if SOE's involvement and share of the profits were minimal. 

  • SalvatorisSalvatoris Member Posts: 1,360

    I know a lot of people are pretty mad at SOE, but i also realize that I am in the minority in taking it as far as I do. I make a real effort not to buy any Sony products at all... but I also do it within reason. I wont buy a Sony branded piece of hardware, but I also understand that I can't buy a pair of shoes without Sony possibly getting a little bit of my money, just because they own the right to the song on the shoe commercial.

    Since video games are where i let them burn me the first time, I avoid their video game business entirely. It isn't even so much the way they suck the life out of a game as their attitude toward their customers. The sheer contempt with which they approach them and the adversarial customer relationship they cultivate is what keeps me away. They are always right, even if it is abundantly clear that their proposed changes and policies are not what their customers want. They don't even try to hide it. They will just come out and say look, we know you guys don't want this to happen, but we do... so it is inevitable. They have a crack dealer mentality toward customer service. We are their addicts and no matter how much they abuse us, they know we wont stop giving them our cash.

    While they won't all agree with me, i think anyone who played SWG for any amount of time can at least understand where i am coming from.... I just feel like strongest statement I can make to them is to stop sending them my money.... the flaming them on the internet is just a bonus. ;) So to answer your question, yes, i can honestly say their involvement would keep me from buying a game, regardless of much fun the game might actually be. There are plenty of companies putting out good games without Sony's help, and they will get my money instead.

  • n2soonersn2sooners Member UncommonPosts: 926


    Originally posted by Malyss

    The publishing is being handled by Sony Platform Publishing, not SOE. I know they both fall under Sony, but they are different companies.
    Sony Platform publishing has nothing to do with the game itself. PE has 100% creative control, will handle billing, customer service, server maintenance, game creation, etc, etc.
    So for those that hate SOE with a passion, please at least take the time to give Perpetual Entertainment a chance. Swing by the official boards at http://community.godsandheroes.com .
    Feel free to swing by and visit us as well at http://gnh.stratics.com .
    Take a deeper look at the game itself, add into the equation the fact that SOE has nothing to do with it, and you may just find this game at the top of your wish list. :)


    Platform Publishing, a label of Sony Online Entertainment, publishes and distributes an exciting library of interactive entertainment products from third-party developers and content providers.

    image image

  • sebbonxsebbonx Member Posts: 318


    Originally posted by Salvatoris

    I know a lot of people are pretty mad at SOE, but i also realize that I am in the minority in taking it as far as I do. I make a real effort not to buy any Sony products at all... but I also do it within reason. I wont buy a Sony branded piece of hardware, but I also understand that I can't buy a pair of shoes without Sony possibly getting a little bit of my money, just because they own the right to the song on the shoe commercial.
    Since video games are where i let them burn me the first time, I avoid their video game business entirely. It isn't even so much the way they suck the life out of a game as their attitude toward their customers. The sheer contempt with which they approach them and the adversarial customer relationship they cultivate is what keeps me away. They are always right, even if it is abundantly clear that their proposed changes and policies are not what their customers want. They don't even try to hide it. They will just come out and say look, we know you guys don't want this to happen, but we do... so it is inevitable. They have a crack dealer mentality toward customer service. We are their addicts and no matter how much they abuse us, they know we wont stop giving them our cash.
    While they won't all agree with me, i think anyone who played SWG for any amount of time can at least understand where i am coming from.... I just feel like strongest statement I can make to them is to stop sending them my money.... the flaming them on the internet is just a bonus. ;) So to answer your question, yes, i can honestly say their involvement would keep me from buying a game, regardless of much fun the game might actually be. There are plenty of companies putting out good games without Sony's help, and they will get my money instead.


    Excellant post and exactly why I despise Sony and Brad of Vanguard!

    If you have any questions please ask. I have moved on to WoW from eq and no longer have any desire to play a dead game. Thank you. (posted by another selling his account in EQ1)

  • LumsterLumster Member Posts: 230

    I say wait and see what happens, I'm pretty sure that the GnH devs are too smart and ambitious to let soe take a big roll and destroy their game.

    If you hate SOE (which i can fully understand) and you got doubts then just wait. I really hope that GnH is going to be a great game.

  • n2soonersn2sooners Member UncommonPosts: 926


    Originally posted by sebbonx

    Excellant post and exactly why I despise Sony and Brad of Vanguard!


    So, you hate Brad because he ruined SWG???

    image image

  • SalvatorisSalvatoris Member Posts: 1,360


    Originally posted by n2sooners

    Originally posted by sebbonx

    Excellant post and exactly why I despise Sony and Brad of Vanguard!

    So, you hate Brad because he ruined SWG???



    If you read the post he quoted, you'll see that it wasn't about what they did to the game, but about the way they treat their customers. The attitude of this is how it's going to be and we don't care how many of you don't like it, is what I posted about. Funny thing is, it's pretty much the same attitude Brad comes across with when discussing the SOE deal.

  • n2soonersn2sooners Member UncommonPosts: 926


    Originally posted by Salvatoris

    Originally posted by n2sooners

    Originally posted by sebbonx

    Excellant post and exactly why I despise Sony and Brad of Vanguard!


    So, you hate Brad because he ruined SWG???



    If you read the post he quoted, you'll see that it wasn't about what they did to the game, but about the way they treat their customers. The attitude of this is how it's going to be and we don't care how many of you don't like it, is what I posted about. Funny thing is, it's pretty much the same attitude Brad comes across with when discussing the SOE deal.



    If you gave a majority of the players what they say they want, they would all be solo kings, have lots of cash, have all the best loot, and be unkillable. They would basically be Gods, and they would only play a few months before being bored and quitting the game. Fact is, a lot of players wouldn't play a game that gave them everything they wanted.

    And if Brad doesn't care what the players want, why are they asking Vanguard beta testers what they think needs improvement, and actually making drastic changes in beta based on that feedback? Seriously, the Vanguard beta has had more changes due to player feedback than any beta I have been ever seen. If the SWG beta had been half as good, the game wouldn't have mostly sucked from day one.

    And the truth is, I hope GnH doesn't give players everything they ask for or it will suck too. Games need to be challenging and require player interaction or they just won't cut it in the long run.

    image image

  • calvertcalvert Member Posts: 10


    Originally posted by Stradden

    Hi Guys,
    It seems as though there has been quite a bit of SOE hate recently, and it has gotten to the point where it is taking over the forums for SOE games. As a result, I am creating this sticky where people can vent their frustrations on this subject.
    Please do not continue to hijack other threads with this issue. Also, remember to have a look at our Rules of Conduct regarding what is ok to say and what is not.
    Cheers,
    Jon "Stradden" Wood, Community Manager


    It really wasn't necessary to make this thread sticky. This is no SOE game and this post will broadcast more of this misinformation like we had in the "instance" - issue.
  • SalvatorisSalvatoris Member Posts: 1,360

    SOE is a co-publisher of Gods and heroes. While that publishing arrangement may be very different than the deal they made with vanguard, they are still a publishing partner. It is a bit of an oversimplification to simply say "This is no SOE game".

    "SOE is co-publishing GnH through their Platform Publishing division. SOE mainly is a marketing and distribution partner that Perpetual is working with for GnH. Perpetual is still very much the creative power at work on GnH, and we can only benefit from the experience SOE has in MMOs."

    Stieg Hedlund   06-17-2006

    http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14006

  • calvertcalvert Member Posts: 10

    Put this text into the start post and everything is okay.

    SOE is a co-publisher, that's right but it's not the developer. That's what I want to say and that is what they have to make clear in their start post.
    There is a large difference to the partnership that for example the Vanguard product has.

    Regards,
    Calv


    Originally posted by Salvatoris

    SOE is a co-publisher of Gods and heroes. While that publishing arrangement may be very different than the deal they made with vanguard, they are still a publishing partner. It is a bit of an oversimplification to simply say "This is no SOE game".

    "SOE is co-publishing GnH through their Platform Publishing division. SOE mainly is a marketing and distribution partner that Perpetual is working with for GnH. Perpetual is still very much the creative power at work on GnH, and we can only benefit from the experience SOE has in MMOs."

    Stieg Hedlund   06-17-2006

    http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14006


  • suskesuske Member Posts: 714
    yet another game with the $oe taint. may medusa take $med!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • chlaoschlaos Member Posts: 1,118

    I truly hope that you guys are right, and that SOE never does anything but market and distribute cd's.   It is naive though to not see the taint that their very presence brings to the game.   Many will not touch anything that is involved with them in anyway, and the possibility of them buying the game will always hover around ominously.  

    I thing the game sounds good, and hopefullly none of these things will happen, but the mere need of a thread like this should tell you that they have pissed alot of people off.   Anyway, cheers and good luck.....

    "The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin

  • GoddyfatherGoddyfather Member Posts: 239
    Whats up with all this SOE?, They are just publishing the game, PE has made it. ...

  • JestorRodoJestorRodo Member UncommonPosts: 2,642


    Originally posted by dink


    Well, here's the thing.  This isn't an SOE game, so maybe this shouldn't be in the G&H forums.
    SOE is publishing the boxes and the CDs that the games come on, and distributing them to retailers.  They aren't doing ANYTHING ELSE for Gods & Heroes at all.  Perpetual Entertainment maintains 100% complete creative control, and will maintina their own game servers, customer service, and billing services.  G&H will also never be a part of the SOE stable of games for the Station Pass. . .   because it isn't an SOE game.  SOE is basically the company that PE contracted to print their CDs. . .  nothing more.
    It's the same deal that hundreds of developers make all the time with publishers like Ubisoft, EA, and Microsoft.
    So, while you totally might need this on the Vanguard or SWG forums, I dont think it applies to Gods & Heroes.


      The true test for SOE involvement is when I buy a copy and  use my real name and my new address to sign up for this great looking game. SOE informed me back in 1/9/05 that I was not allow to play any SOE game in the future. ( that has not been a problem since the NGE of SWG)  , if I am not allowed - I will file a lawsuit.


    Unaware of the Jestor?
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