Anything else is revisionist history. Do you really want me to go digging up those links?
Yes please do.
Its always fun when people post isolated quotes/links without context as "proof", ignoring all other quotes and links and developments in a project history that would show why the Star Citizen project is going the way it is now.
Like this one: >>> and stated that he would need 20 million including outside investment to complete his vision. >>>> A statement made BEFORE the overwhelming success of the crowdfunding campaign and the MASSIVE change in scope and project size. Of course @Phaserlight knows that the number given refers to the OLD much smaller project. But he does not mention it, because that would ruin his narrative.
Please do explain how it's rendered meaningless by context, because it sure looks like a qualified estimate to me. Also, what is the new estimate, please?
I guess I must be the only one happy about the land sale thing. Like hell I'm gunna buy into it but the news means that plots of land will be buyable in game with in game currency and I think that's a neat feature to play around with (so long as the team working on it is a team that's waiting for another team to finish a more integral part of the game before moving on).
I'm looking forward to the PvE and cooperative play aspects of Star Citizen. PvP content in any game these days is more like a babysitting service.
I guess I must be the only one happy about the land sale thing. Like hell I'm gunna buy into it but the news means that plots of land will be buyable in game with in game currency and I think that's a neat feature to play around with (so long as the team working on it is a team that's waiting for another team to finish a more integral part of the game before moving on).
I'm looking forward to the PvE and cooperative play aspects of Star Citizen. PvP content in any game these days is more like a babysitting service.
I'm right there with you on this. I haven't given CIG any money in about a year and a half now, i've put in what I feel comfortable paying for a game (around the price for a collectors version for another). I don't even see the dollar value attached to the new content, just the new content i'll have access to in the game when it goes live.
Disagree with the PvP thing, but then again i'll be a pirate lol.
I guess I must be the only one happy about the land sale thing. Like hell I'm gunna buy into it but the news means that plots of land will be buyable in game with in game currency and I think that's a neat feature to play around with (so long as the team working on it is a team that's waiting for another team to finish a more integral part of the game before moving on).
Impossible. Plots of land is so large a feature that it can't be done while waiting for something else. All the time and money CIG spends to plots of land and housing on planets is time and money that CIG is not spending on other parts of the game.
I guess I must be the only one happy about the land sale thing. Like hell I'm gunna buy into it but the news means that plots of land will be buyable in game with in game currency and I think that's a neat feature to play around with (so long as the team working on it is a team that's waiting for another team to finish a more integral part of the game before moving on).
Impossible. Plots of land is so large a feature that it can't be done while waiting for something else. All the time and money CIG spends to plots of land and housing on planets is time and money that CIG is not spending on other parts of the game.
What is it you think they are doing? The housing is just modules from units that they already needed to be in game. They are not placing players houses for them, players will place them in game. The only thing needed strictly for the players was the mechanic of the ship building the modules. They have 400 employees, how big a deal do you think that will be to them?. Plots of land is a small non revolutionary concept, a mechanic to set a boundary and set an ID /shrug.
I guess I must be the only one happy about the land sale thing. Like hell I'm gunna buy into it but the news means that plots of land will be buyable in game with in game currency and I think that's a neat feature to play around with (so long as the team working on it is a team that's waiting for another team to finish a more integral part of the game before moving on).
Impossible. Plots of land is so large a feature that it can't be done while waiting for something else. All the time and money CIG spends to plots of land and housing on planets is time and money that CIG is not spending on other parts of the game.
I guess I must be the only one happy about the land sale thing. Like hell I'm gunna buy into it but the news means that plots of land will be buyable in game with in game currency and I think that's a neat feature to play around with (so long as the team working on it is a team that's waiting for another team to finish a more integral part of the game before moving on).
Impossible. Plots of land is so large a feature that it can't be done while waiting for something else. All the time and money CIG spends to plots of land and housing on planets is time and money that CIG is not spending on other parts of the game.
What is it you think they are doing? The housing is just modules from units that they already needed to be in game. They are not placing players houses for them, players will place them in game. The only thing needed strictly for the players was the mechanic of the ship building the modules. They have 400 employees, how big a deal do you think that will be to them?. Plots of land is a small non revolutionary concept, a mechanic to set a boundary and set an ID /shrug.
I agree, establishing plots of land appears to be simple, but the conditions and mechanics to hold on to or sieze them from others might not be, if EVE's station/ system sovereignty features in 0.0 and attacking / defending player owned structures is any indication.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I agree, establishing plots of land appears to be simple, but the conditions and mechanics to hold on to or sieze them from others might not be, if EVE's station/ system sovereignty features in 0.0 and attacking / defending player owned structures is any indication.
I am expecting feature creep in this area (well the whole territory thing is feature creep), hoping they don't get lost on it early on.
I agree, establishing plots of land appears to be simple, but the conditions and mechanics to hold on to or sieze them from others might not be, if EVE's station/ system sovereignty features in 0.0 and attacking / defending player owned structures is any indication.
I am expecting feature creep in this area (well the whole territory thing is feature creep), hoping they don't get lost on it early on.
Well CCP released a basic version in the beginning, and it has never stopped growing or evolving. As long as they limit the initial mechanics somewhat they should do OK.
I really would like this game to formally "launch" as I would like to play it one day.
(I don't do the early access thing, personal preference)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The problem is concept creep. They still want to surprise people with new concepts and have been cutting back on the actual execution of those concepts. 3.0 is half of what it was originally intended to be. From out of no where comes face emotes, Intl Sabre Ravens, and land claims. They have a back list that growing longer every year.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
The problem is concept creep. They still want to surprise people with new concepts and have been cutting back on the actual execution of those concepts. 3.0 is half of what it was originally intended to be. From out of no where comes face emotes, Intl Sabre Ravens, and land claims. They have a back list that growing longer every year.
Face emotes were already part of the design, why do we have to repeat stuff over and over and over. The only thing that has changed in 3 YEARS is territory claim. There is no desperate need to surprise people with new concepts like you claim. Everything has been within the planned scope since the 65 million stretch goal 3 YEARS ago until territory claim. and do you know where territory claim came from? the R&D of planet tech, it was something they couldn't really plan for in the original scope however if they could have somehow know, you better believe it would have been there!
The problem is concept creep. They still want to surprise people with new concepts and have been cutting back on the actual execution of those concepts. 3.0 is half of what it was originally intended to be. From out of no where comes face emotes, Intl Sabre Ravens, and land claims. They have a back list that growing longer every year.
Face emotes were already part of the design, why do we have to repeat stuff over and over and over. The only thing that has changed in 3 YEARS is territory claim. There is no desperate need to surprise people with new concepts like you claim. Everything has been within the planned scope since the 65 million stretch goal 3 YEARS ago until territory claim. and do you know where territory claim came from? the R&D of planet tech, it was something they couldn't really plan for in the original scope however if they could have somehow know, you better believe it would have been there!
It's just that I don't remember seeing those three things listed in 3.0.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I guess I must be the only one happy about the land sale thing. Like hell I'm gunna buy into it but the news means that plots of land will be buyable in game with in game currency and I think that's a neat feature to play around with (so long as the team working on it is a team that's waiting for another team to finish a more integral part of the game before moving on).
Impossible. Plots of land is so large a feature that it can't be done while waiting for something else. All the time and money CIG spends to plots of land and housing on planets is time and money that CIG is not spending on other parts of the game.
well if you say so, I don't have any idea how their internal structure is set up, or how many teams they have doing what so I can't really give you an informed opinion on the matter. All I know from programming experience is that some times you have different teams working on different areas.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
The problem is concept creep. They still want to surprise people with new concepts and have been cutting back on the actual execution of those concepts. 3.0 is half of what it was originally intended to be. From out of no where comes face emotes, Intl Sabre Ravens, and land claims. They have a back list that growing longer every year.
Face emotes were already part of the design, why do we have to repeat stuff over and over and over. The only thing that has changed in 3 YEARS is territory claim. There is no desperate need to surprise people with new concepts like you claim. Everything has been within the planned scope since the 65 million stretch goal 3 YEARS ago until territory claim. and do you know where territory claim came from? the R&D of planet tech, it was something they couldn't really plan for in the original scope however if they could have somehow know, you better believe it would have been there!
It's just that I don't remember seeing those three things listed in 3.0.
This response isn't clear. Listed for 3.0 how? as in listed as being in patch notes of client build now? or previous plans for 3.0? Because 2 of those things you slated have never been slated for 3.0 and won't be in 3.0. Where as ships are not exactly part of the #.x iterations, ships have a production pipeline and are ready when they are ready and go out ASAP.
The problem is concept creep. They still want to surprise people with new concepts and have been cutting back on the actual execution of those concepts. 3.0 is half of what it was originally intended to be. From out of no where comes face emotes, Intl Sabre Ravens, and land claims. They have a back list that growing longer every year.
no its about 10% of what they said it was going to be....
Watching these guys give a talk and a demonstration at a convention is like giving an 8 year old a hundred dollar bill and ask them what theyre going to buy with it. They along with Roberts and company dont have any concept of reality and money. And if not for the naive and people with more brains than money and the (alleged) 170 million what would this farce look like?
They havent delivered what they claim they were going to deliver (3 years ago) for what was it 10 or 12 million?
The engine is still garbage they dont have half the core mechanics of an MMO working they dont have a decent delivery system, they dont have basic functionality found in ANY video game let alone an MMO, and the list goes on and on. At best they have a 'specialized' tech demo simulator. Where they give you 3 or 4 things to do and thats it, youre completely confined to those very specific functions they sort of have operational (I wouldnt even say theyre working) they function and thats about it.
The problem is concept creep. They still want to surprise people with new concepts and have been cutting back on the actual execution of those concepts. 3.0 is half of what it was originally intended to be. From out of no where comes face emotes, Intl Sabre Ravens, and land claims. They have a back list that growing longer every year.
Face emotes were already part of the design, why do we have to repeat stuff over and over and over. The only thing that has changed in 3 YEARS is territory claim. There is no desperate need to surprise people with new concepts like you claim. Everything has been within the planned scope since the 65 million stretch goal 3 YEARS ago until territory claim. and do you know where territory claim came from? the R&D of planet tech, it was something they couldn't really plan for in the original scope however if they could have somehow know, you better believe it would have been there!
It's just that I don't remember seeing those three things listed in 3.0.
This response isn't clear. Listed for 3.0 how? as in listed as being in patch notes of client build now? or previous plans for 3.0? Because 2 of those things you slated have never been slated for 3.0 and won't be in 3.0. Where as ships are not exactly part of the #.x iterations, ships have a production pipeline and are ready when they are ready and go out ASAP.
The time and resources put into those things would have better been spent on 3.0 now it's looking more like 2.9.
They pretty much pick and choose which ships they want to work on or there wouldn't be a waiting list of ships from years ago. Ships fully paid for and increasing in purchase price every year.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
The problem is concept creep. They still want to surprise people with new concepts and have been cutting back on the actual execution of those concepts. 3.0 is half of what it was originally intended to be. From out of no where comes face emotes, Intl Sabre Ravens, and land claims. They have a back list that growing longer every year.
Face emotes were already part of the design, why do we have to repeat stuff over and over and over. The only thing that has changed in 3 YEARS is territory claim. There is no desperate need to surprise people with new concepts like you claim. Everything has been within the planned scope since the 65 million stretch goal 3 YEARS ago until territory claim. and do you know where territory claim came from? the R&D of planet tech, it was something they couldn't really plan for in the original scope however if they could have somehow know, you better believe it would have been there!
It's just that I don't remember seeing those three things listed in 3.0.
This response isn't clear. Listed for 3.0 how? as in listed as being in patch notes of client build now? or previous plans for 3.0? Because 2 of those things you slated have never been slated for 3.0 and won't be in 3.0. Where as ships are not exactly part of the #.x iterations, ships have a production pipeline and are ready when they are ready and go out ASAP.
The time and resources put into those things would have better been spent on 3.0 now it's looking more like 2.9.
They pretty much pick and choose which ships they want to work on or there wouldn't be a waiting list of ships from years ago. Ships fully paid for and increasing in purchase price every year.
Time and resources put into what things? Facial tech or FOIP I think its called? That is probably one or 2 guys who work on heads and animations working with the team who created that software and helping incorporate it into the engine with a few tweaks to how it works. It is not like the guys who work on heads could go work on the netcode or planetary tech to help speed it up!
The territory stuff, most the work done on that past design concept was just for the presentation, very little, maybe a weeks worth of work for a guy or two.
Ships, of course they pick and choose what ships to work on, how else would they do it? First they had to develop the production line, that took a long time as they worked out what was needed and not needed, what was going to work and what was not going to work, since then they have had a few teams following a program of which ships make the most sense to build first, not just randomly throwing darts at a list and saying cool we will do that one!
The main area where 3.0 is lacking compared to its original iteration pitch years ago is that a few planets are not going to be there. This means they are behind on specific stuff to help fill out the planets like flora and funa, gas planet creation, assets to plug into the procedural city tech. Stuff like that. These are big things but they have and are been worked on, they just are not 100% complete yet and is far from HALF of what 3.0 was meant to be. 3.0 big thing was always planet tech at its core, not every last tool to complete every last planet in the system, that might be what they hoped but not what was important to deliver.
It's a bit late to worry about feature creep in regards to land. Just slowly listing things off from the FAQ, they already have beacons that transmit weather information and motion detection to the player, "millions of locations", destructibility of those beacons, infinite prime "hot spot" locations (somehow magically averting "when everyone is super, no one is super!"), construction which is affected by the "grade of terrain", weather effects that have an effect on the "potential of the area", what's "under the surface" also having a huge effect to the point that it'll be part of the "primary determinent" to how good the land is, "taking core samples and having them analyzed, performing seismographic surveys, and other such scientific and engineering challenges", interconnected modules each of which has a different purpose such as respawn point habitation, farming, and hospitals, the housing being attackable by other players, NPC police within federation territory to protect them, and player-owned automated defense drones. (and I've seen Erillion mention energy shields too but I don't know if he was just making that up or not)
Absolutely none of which is even in the alpha stages yet.
And all of which they're technically legally obliged to deliver because they stated it as fact in the FAQ about the sale of the land (as opposed to just something they "hope" to do). "Dubious" might be an understatement. Star Citizen doesn't just have a bridge to sell you. They have a MILLION (their own words) bridges to sell to everyone, with EVERY SINGLE ONE comprised 200% of DIAMOND.
Well, on the plus side, they can't feature creep much more than they already have! ...or can they?
"Macrotransactions" would be more accurate in SC's case, really. Really isn't anything micro about the prices of anything they sell.
Exactly! Buying something for a game /= microtransaction The title of the actual article is "The 10 most dubious in-game purchases" So the author knows the difference anyway!
It's a bit late to worry about feature creep in regards to land. Just slowly listing things off from the FAQ, they already have beacons that transmit weather information and motion detection to the player, "millions of locations", destructibility of those beacons, infinite prime "hot spot" locations (somehow magically averting "when everyone is super, no one is super!"), differing quantity and quality of natural resources depending on location, construction which is affected by the "grade of terrain", weather effects that have an effect on the "potential of the area", what's "under the surface" also having a huge effect to the point that it'll be part of the "primary determinent" to how good the land is, "taking core samples and having them analyzed, performing seismographic surveys, and other such scientific and engineering challenges", interconnected modules each of which has a different purpose such as respawn point habitation, farming, and hospitals, the housing being attackable by other players, NPC police within federation territory to protect them, and player-owned automated defense drones. (and I've seen Erillion mention energy shields too but I don't know if he was just making that up or not)
Absolutely none of which is even in the alpha stages yet.
And all of which they're technically legally obliged to deliver because they stated it as fact in the FAQ about the sale of the land (as opposed to just something they "hope" to do). "Dubious" might be an understatement.
Well, on the plus side, they can't feature creep much more than they already have! ...or can they?
Some of what you have in there would have been part of the scope anyway and tied to exploration, science / farming, medical and mining professions.
Some of what you have in there would have been part of the scope anyway and tied to exploration, science / farming, medical and mining professions.
Whether that's part of another scope or not doesn't change the fact that it's questionable how much of it will ever get implemented. As it is right now, only mining is even remotely in the development pipeline at the moment and even that's still mostly just a twinkle in Chris Robert's eye.
Comments
Its always fun when people post isolated quotes/links without context as "proof", ignoring all other quotes and links and developments in a project history that would show why the Star Citizen project is going the way it is now.
Like this one:
>>> and stated that he would need 20 million including outside investment to complete his vision. >>>>
A statement made BEFORE the overwhelming success of the crowdfunding campaign and the MASSIVE change in scope and project size. Of course @Phaserlight knows that the number given refers to the OLD much smaller project. But he does not mention it, because that would ruin his narrative.
Have fun
Prepare to lose your narrative again in the war of FACTS v FAKE NEWS!
Bing Bing Bong Bong.
I'm looking forward to the PvE and cooperative play aspects of Star Citizen. PvP content in any game these days is more like a babysitting service.
Disagree with the PvP thing, but then again i'll be a pirate lol.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I really would like this game to formally "launch" as I would like to play it one day.
(I don't do the early access thing, personal preference)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Watching these guys give a talk and a demonstration at a convention is like giving an 8 year old a hundred dollar bill and ask them what theyre going to buy with it. They along with Roberts and company dont have any concept of reality and money. And if not for the naive and people with more brains than money and the (alleged) 170 million what would this farce look like?
They havent delivered what they claim they were going to deliver (3 years ago) for what was it 10 or 12 million?
The engine is still garbage they dont have half the core mechanics of an MMO working they dont have a decent delivery system, they dont have basic functionality found in ANY video game let alone an MMO, and the list goes on and on. At best they have a 'specialized' tech demo simulator. Where they give you 3 or 4 things to do and thats it, youre completely confined to those very specific functions they sort of have operational (I wouldnt even say theyre working) they function and thats about it.
They pretty much pick and choose which ships they want to work on or there wouldn't be a waiting list of ships from years ago. Ships fully paid for and increasing in purchase price every year.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
The territory stuff, most the work done on that past design concept was just for the presentation, very little, maybe a weeks worth of work for a guy or two.
Ships, of course they pick and choose what ships to work on, how else would they do it? First they had to develop the production line, that took a long time as they worked out what was needed and not needed, what was going to work and what was not going to work, since then they have had a few teams following a program of which ships make the most sense to build first, not just randomly throwing darts at a list and saying cool we will do that one!
The main area where 3.0 is lacking compared to its original iteration pitch years ago is that a few planets are not going to be there. This means they are behind on specific stuff to help fill out the planets like flora and funa, gas planet creation, assets to plug into the procedural city tech. Stuff like that. These are big things but they have and are been worked on, they just are not 100% complete yet and is far from HALF of what 3.0 was meant to be. 3.0 big thing was always planet tech at its core, not every last tool to complete every last planet in the system, that might be what they hoped but not what was important to deliver.
Absolutely none of which is even in the alpha stages yet.
And all of which they're technically legally obliged to deliver because they stated it as fact in the FAQ about the sale of the land (as opposed to just something they "hope" to do). "Dubious" might be an understatement. Star Citizen doesn't just have a bridge to sell you. They have a MILLION (their own words) bridges to sell to everyone, with EVERY SINGLE ONE comprised 200% of DIAMOND.
Well, on the plus side, they can't feature creep much more than they already have! ...or can they?
The title of the actual article is "The 10 most dubious in-game purchases" So the author knows the difference anyway!