Is Blizzard's hearthstone the next controversy for cash shop gambling?

TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYMember RarePosts: 2,242
Blizzard's hearthstone is almost exactly like EA's loot boxes. In hearthstone, you pay for a pack of cards...and you never know what cards you are going to get. You can't pay for certain cards, and the person who pays the most will have a far superior deck. In fact, its a VERY pay to win game. However, ignoring the pay to win of the game...blizzard's hearthstone is no different than the loot boxes for EA's battlefront 2

However, there is one difference. Everyone hates EA so it gets dog piled on...but...no one is upset about blizzard's hearthstone that pretty much does the same thing? You can't even earn cards while you play hearthstone, nothing people pay for can be earned in-game.

Will Blizzard's hearthstone be next for controversial subject on cash shop gambling? So far blizzard has skated on by avoiding controversy...but in many ways their hearthstone game is far worse than EA's battlefront 2 loot boxes. But both are just as bad, as far as online gambling goes.

What are your guys's thoughts?

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Comments

  • ScorchienScorchien Hatboro, PAMember EpicPosts: 4,077
    edited December 8
    My thoughts are .. This is how  every single CCG works , every single on of them ,, That is a core mechanic OF CCG has been since the very first ones .. Most people who play them or get involved know that going in ...

      This is a non -issue
    Post edited by Scorchien on
    SBFordSedrynTyrosWalkinGlenn4507VrikaNephethholdenhamletpantaro
  • Bluefear77Bluefear77 Lawrence, KSMember UncommonPosts: 112
    People pick and choose what is pay to win, just like they pick and choose morality. Don't try to make sense of it.
    pantaro
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 15,001
    It could be affected by the push for draconian legislation. You should post that question in the discussion here: http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/470133/mmorpg-com-general-hawaiis-chris-lee-step-up-to-changing-predatory-gaming-practices.

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  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYMember RarePosts: 2,242
    Scorchien said:
    My thoughts are .. This is how  every single CCG works , every single on of them ,, That is a core mechanic OF CCG has been since the very first ones .. Most people who play them or get involved know that going in ...

      This is a non -issue
    But, they are still gambling like battlefront 2 loot boxes are.

    In real trading card games in real life, while its always random what you get and still a form of gambling. You can physically trade (or sell) the card to other people or even give the cards to friends.

    You can't do this in blizzard's hearthstone. 

    However, can you explain how blizzard's hearthstone gambling cards are any different than EA's battlefront 2 gambling loot boxes? Both are pretty much the same. 
    Torval

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  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 26,827
    Scorchien said:
    My thoughts are .. This is how  every single CCG works , every single on of them ,, That is a core mechanic OF CCG has been since the very first ones .. Most people who play them or get involved know that going in ...

      This is a non -issue
    But, they are still gambling like battlefront 2 loot boxes are.

    In real trading card games in real life, while its always random what you get and still a form of gambling. You can physically trade (or sell) the card to other people or even give the cards to friends.

    You can't do this in blizzard's hearthstone. 

    However, can you explain how blizzard's hearthstone gambling cards are any different than EA's battlefront 2 gambling loot boxes? Both are pretty much the same. 
    Stop it, you are just trying to interject too much common sense into these forums, you will upset the ragers
    Torval

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  • laxielaxie UK - Leamington SpaMember RarePosts: 896
    Here is the main distinction to me:

    Hearthstone, like any trading card game, has the "lootbox" component as core gameplay. You buy it with that in mind, for that feature specifically.

    Battlefront 2 has the loot boxes as a barrier to content. You presumably bought Battlefront to swing your lightsaber, but are forced to spend on loot boxes if you want to do that. In this sense, the loot boxes are a bit more misleading.

    One could argue that people buy Battlefront 2 because they enjoy loot boxes specifically, much like Hearthstone. But I don't think that's accurate.
  • ScorchienScorchien Hatboro, PAMember EpicPosts: 4,077
    edited December 8
    Scorchien said:
    My thoughts are .. This is how  every single CCG works , every single on of them ,, That is a core mechanic OF CCG has been since the very first ones .. Most people who play them or get involved know that going in ...

      This is a non -issue
    But, they are still gambling like battlefront 2 loot boxes are.

    In real trading card games in real life, while its always random what you get and still a form of gambling. You can physically trade (or sell) the card to other people or even give the cards to friends.

    You can't do this in blizzard's hearthstone. 

    However, can you explain how blizzard's hearthstone gambling cards are any different than EA's battlefront 2 gambling loot boxes? Both are pretty much the same. 
    You can thank the shit communtiy that the internet has bred for that , you cant trade etc,, Becuase of all the cheats/hax/scams/dupes/goldselles etc.. this protects the communtiy that is interested in the game ..

     That they all agreed to play knowing full well in the EULA that they agree to everytime they log in that they cannot and will not ever be able to trade/sell/gift these items ..  Tough to complain about something that you agreed to access the content .. Only a fool or an idiot would do so (this is a general statement not directed at any individual)

      Now you can gift people card packs in Hearthstone , thru gift cards if you choose tho
    Post edited by Scorchien on
  • SedrynTyrosSedrynTyros USMember EpicPosts: 1,985
    Scorchien said:
    My thoughts are .. This is how  every single CCG works , every single on of them ,, That is a core mechanic OF CCG has been since the very first ones .. Most people who play them or get involved know that going in ...

      This is a non -issue
    But, they are still gambling like battlefront 2 loot boxes are.

    In real trading card games in real life, while its always random what you get and still a form of gambling. You can physically trade (or sell) the card to other people or even give the cards to friends.

    You can't do this in blizzard's hearthstone. 

    However, can you explain how blizzard's hearthstone gambling cards are any different than EA's battlefront 2 gambling loot boxes? Both are pretty much the same. 
    Off the top of my head, the difference is Battlefront 2 costs $60.  Hearthstone costs nothing to start playing.  If Battlefront 2 was given to me for nothing and then wanted to sell loot boxes I'd be a lot understanding of them doing so.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Nashville, TNMember EpicPosts: 2,974
    Torval said:
    It could be affected by the push for draconian legislation. You should post that question in the discussion here: http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/470133/mmorpg-com-general-hawaiis-chris-lee-step-up-to-changing-predatory-gaming-practices.

    Lol dude, you've went full hard-on about consumer backlash on loot boxes.  You have a personal financial stake in the idea or something?

    image
  • HeraseHerase LondonMember RarePosts: 917
    Scorchien said:
    My thoughts are .. This is how  every single CCG works , every single on of them ,, That is a core mechanic OF CCG has been since the very first ones .. Most people who play them or get involved know that going in ...

      This is a non -issue
    But, they are still gambling like battlefront 2 loot boxes are.

    In real trading card games in real life, while its always random what you get and still a form of gambling. You can physically trade (or sell) the card to other people or even give the cards to friends.

    You can't do this in blizzard's hearthstone. 

    However, can you explain how blizzard's hearthstone gambling cards are any different than EA's battlefront 2 gambling loot boxes? Both are pretty much the same. 
    Think it's overall how they've been implemented. EA's asking you to pay $60 and if you want to enjoy the game properly, even though you've already paid money. you're asked to pay more for a headache free experience or bang your head on the table for several months to earn anything. With Hearth you don't feel like you're being manipulated into a corner, I can jump in try it, if the games worth the time I might buy some shit, nothing gained nothing lossed, unlike BF2 mts. 
  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKMember LegendaryPosts: 17,116
    Scorchien said:
    My thoughts are .. This is how  every single CCG works , every single on of them ,, That is a core mechanic OF CCG has been since the very first ones .. Most people who play them or get involved know that going in ...

      This is a non -issue


    Exactly.

    Magic the Gathering is the original P2W


    Gymrat3134507obii
  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKMember LegendaryPosts: 17,116
    Herase said:
    Scorchien said:
    My thoughts are .. This is how  every single CCG works , every single on of them ,, That is a core mechanic OF CCG has been since the very first ones .. Most people who play them or get involved know that going in ...

      This is a non -issue
    But, they are still gambling like battlefront 2 loot boxes are.

    In real trading card games in real life, while its always random what you get and still a form of gambling. You can physically trade (or sell) the card to other people or even give the cards to friends.

    You can't do this in blizzard's hearthstone. 

    However, can you explain how blizzard's hearthstone gambling cards are any different than EA's battlefront 2 gambling loot boxes? Both are pretty much the same. 
    Think it's overall how they've been implemented. EA's asking you to pay $60 and if you want to enjoy the game properly, even though you've already paid money. you're asked to pay more for a headache free experience or bang your head on the table for several months to earn anything. With Hearth you don't feel like you're being manipulated into a corner, I can jump in try it, if the games worth the time I might buy some shit, nothing gained nothing lossed, unlike BF2 mts. 

    Then how is BDO different? I mean you pay for the game, bur without spending additional money to make the gameplay enjoyable, its not very fun with just the box purchase.
  • Gymrat313Gymrat313 Lincoln Park, MIMember UncommonPosts: 145
    Scorchien said:
    My thoughts are .. This is how  every single CCG works , every single on of them ,, That is a core mechanic OF CCG has been since the very first ones .. Most people who play them or get involved know that going in ...

      This is a non -issue
    But, they are still gambling like battlefront 2 loot boxes are.

    In real trading card games in real life, while its always random what you get and still a form of gambling. You can physically trade (or sell) the card to other people or even give the cards to friends.

    You can't do this in blizzard's hearthstone. 

    However, can you explain how blizzard's hearthstone gambling cards are any different than EA's battlefront 2 gambling loot boxes? Both are pretty much the same. 
    Most of the cards you get in Magic: The Gathering are shit and you get so many of them because they are "common".  How do I know this, because I have white boxes sitting in my closet full of useless cards I can't give away.  If I need a specific card, I don't buy booster packs as they are a gamble, I simply go and buy that card for a specific price.

    image
  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW New York, NYMember UncommonPosts: 503
    edited December 8
    There are bazillion pay 2 win games out there.  You don't hear people complaining over it.

    I think the reason is expectation.  People expect f2p games to be pay to win, but don't expect a boxed game to be pay to win.

    And I suppose most games similar to battlefront aren't pay 2 win.  While most card games are.
    Post edited by AAAMEOW on
  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaMember EpicPosts: 13,175
    Blizzard's entire operation has been moving more and more to ADDED costs to play games that do NOT warrant the very high costs these demand.

    We are talking 100-300 for a few months,compared to getting 100% of a games content through 15 dollar sub fees,you can easily see how much Blizzard and other tcg's are ripping people off.
    Furthermore ,these are NOT RNG loot boxes they are possibly worse or identical.

    You see to an average person consumer,we EXPECT rng to mean a complete total random outcome but this is NOT the case,especially in Hearthstone and others games as well.The results are weighted so that you get 100% meaningless and worthless cards MORE often,which you only get a grand total of 5 dust per crap card.Even worse you will often get 2x that same crap card in that same pack but you will NEVER see a legend or rare double in the same pack.

    Without explaining the whole ripoff system,i will cut it short,we do NOT control ANY of our purchases meaning we cannot sell those cards,we are stuck under Blizzard's umbrella to do as they see fit with OUR cards.So basically it comers down to not 1 purchase but it takes about 10 -20 packs to have a true rng at 1 legend.
    This is VERY misleading because people believe they have a fair shake at a legendary but they do NOT because true rng is NOT used,instead manipulated algorithm's are.If it was a TRUE and HONEST rng ,then i think most would consider it FAIR but not totally fair unless we control our cards we buy,meaning sell them to other players.
    TheScavengerBruceYee

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  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYMember RarePosts: 2,242
    So going by this thread. If every developer made their games free, but added tons of pay to win+loot boxes that would be okay?

    Guess this thread solves EA's problem. They can see this thread and go "oh we can make a ton more money by going free to play and add an extensive cash shop!"

    TorvalBruceYee

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  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYMember RarePosts: 2,242
    Wizardry said:
    Blizzard's entire operation has been moving more and more to ADDED costs to play games that do NOT warrant the very high costs these demand.

    We are talking 100-300 for a few months,compared to getting 100% of a games content through 15 dollar sub fees,you can easily see how much Blizzard and other tcg's are ripping people off.
    Furthermore ,these are NOT RNG loot boxes they are possibly worse or identical.

    You see to an average person consumer,we EXPECT rng to mean a complete total random outcome but this is NOT the case,especially in Hearthstone and others games as well.The results are weighted so that you get 100% meaningless and worthless cards MORE often,which you only get a grand total of 5 dust per crap card.Even worse you will often get 2x that same crap card in that same pack but you will NEVER see a legend or rare double in the same pack.

    Without explaining the whole ripoff system,i will cut it short,we do NOT control ANY of our purchases meaning we cannot sell those cards,we are stuck under Blizzard's umbrella to do as they see fit with OUR cards.So basically it comers down to not 1 purchase but it takes about 10 -20 packs to have a true rng at 1 legend.
    This is VERY misleading because people believe they have a fair shake at a legendary but they do NOT because true rng is NOT used,instead manipulated algorithm's are.If it was a TRUE and HONEST rng ,then i think most would consider it FAIR but not totally fair unless we control our cards we buy,meaning sell them to other players.
    If that is the case, that is a lot worse. Not even true RNG, but rigged against the player. Is battlefront 2 loot boxes like that?

    At least buying cards in real life in a pack is true RNG. Or just straight up buying the card(s) you want or trading for them.
    BruceYee

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  • TheDarkrayneTheDarkrayne UKMember RarePosts: 3,515
    I played HearthStone and throughly enjoyed it up until the point I felt like I had to buy loot boxes to progress at a reasonable pace. Then I stopped playing it.

    It felt good that I'd got to try it for free and had a lot of fun gameplay. At least I was given a free chance of finding out whether or not their RNG system is something I want to pay for.

    I left the game with a positive feeling, not a negative one. I felt like it was me that just ripped them off and not the other way around.

    It's very different to spending $60 to find out it's something you don't want to continue paying for.
    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 982
    edited December 8
    Trading Cards are gambling (even more so than Hearthstone considering how many of them have real life market tradeable value). They just found a way to trick people into thinking they aren't for decades because they're "for kids".
    Post edited by Tiamat64 on
  • ThaneThane berlinMember RarePosts: 2,785
    Blizzard's hearthstone is almost exactly like EA's loot boxes. In hearthstone, you pay for a pack of cards...and you never know what cards you are going to get. You can't pay for certain cards, and the person who pays the most will have a far superior deck. In fact, its a VERY pay to win game. However, ignoring the pay to win of the game...blizzard's hearthstone is no different than the loot boxes for EA's battlefront 2

    However, there is one difference. Everyone hates EA so it gets dog piled on...but...no one is upset about blizzard's hearthstone that pretty much does the same thing? You can't even earn cards while you play hearthstone, nothing people pay for can be earned in-game.

    Will Blizzard's hearthstone be next for controversial subject on cash shop gambling? So far blizzard has skated on by avoiding controversy...but in many ways their hearthstone game is far worse than EA's battlefront 2 loot boxes. But both are just as bad, as far as online gambling goes.

    What are your guys's thoughts?
    they are nothing alike. blizz is selling cosmectic items.
    RexKushman

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  • TheDarkrayneTheDarkrayne UKMember RarePosts: 3,515
    Thane said:
    Blizzard's hearthstone is almost exactly like EA's loot boxes. In hearthstone, you pay for a pack of cards...and you never know what cards you are going to get. You can't pay for certain cards, and the person who pays the most will have a far superior deck. In fact, its a VERY pay to win game. However, ignoring the pay to win of the game...blizzard's hearthstone is no different than the loot boxes for EA's battlefront 2

    However, there is one difference. Everyone hates EA so it gets dog piled on...but...no one is upset about blizzard's hearthstone that pretty much does the same thing? You can't even earn cards while you play hearthstone, nothing people pay for can be earned in-game.

    Will Blizzard's hearthstone be next for controversial subject on cash shop gambling? So far blizzard has skated on by avoiding controversy...but in many ways their hearthstone game is far worse than EA's battlefront 2 loot boxes. But both are just as bad, as far as online gambling goes.

    What are your guys's thoughts?
    they are nothing alike. blizz is selling cosmectic items.
    HearthStone card packs are not cosmetic. You're confusing it with Overwatch.
    BruceYee
    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
  • DauzqulDauzqul Detroit, MIMember RarePosts: 1,707
    I just want to pay 15 per month and forget about all the cash shop bs.

    Whatever happened to earning your rewards via in the game?
    4507
  • vomomotovomomoto Member UncommonPosts: 68
    You can craft cards in HS....
  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Pittsville, VAMember UncommonPosts: 5,445
    It's not gambling. No matter what cards you get they have no value. None. Zip. Nada. It's pixie dust and electrons. 

    "We have met the enemy and he is us." ~Pogo Possum. 

  • Superman0XSuperman0X San Jose, CAMember RarePosts: 2,005
    It's not gambling. No matter what cards you get they have no value. None. Zip. Nada. It's pixie dust and electrons. 
    The Representative is not making the argument that it is gambling... they are stating that they have 'Gambling Mechanisms' that they wish to regulate. 
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