So you are happy with the direction It's going?

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  • blamo2000blamo2000 Member UncommonPosts: 167
    The first MMORPG I bought was EQ when it was new.  It took a while for me to get it working.  I had to get the internet, and then had to get a graphics card after that, all in all it was a hassle to get it to work.  The whole time the idea in my head of what it was going to be like versus what it actually was like was very disappointing.  I wasn't a fan of that game. 

    The idea in my head was pretty neat.  My character coming upon someone overwhelmed by monsters in the wood and helping them and the meeting having significance, like in stories etc.  

    Unlike most people who seem to only like to be forced into grouping to do generic nonsense and consider that to be the pinnacle of MMO social interaction, I find that to just give truth to the lie there is any worth while social interaction in mmorpgs.  Its meaningless interaction and I avoid it as much as possible.  I have to deal with people all day at work, and if my interaction with them in games can't be of any significance (and trying to rp for no reason isn't significant either) I'd rather not do it.

    There is this false dichotomy of people believing the two choices are these single player MMOs or their preferred forced chatroom MMO.  In both there is no interaction of any meaning, and if I can't have that I'd rather be left alone and churn through the solo content by myself.

    For my likes, since I don't bemoan the loss of games that are still around and you can still play (which has always confused me), I can play all the games that have came out that I liked...from AO to Wildstar.  I am playing DDO now and loving all the character development options.

    But, in a perfect world, I would love to enter a game that tries to emulate what the core of the P&P experience wanted to give...to enter a blank book with my character and fill it with his story.  P&P can't give it because of scale and scope.  Crpgs can't and are going in the opposite direction by having a highly narrated story dictated to you as you passively watch like a book or movie.  But MMOrpgs could possibly if they went back to the drawing board and just did everything different, and then built upon that released game after released game until some decades later I can enter a game as a character I created and make my own story, and not just churn through scripted content on my own or with a small chatroom of meaningless nothing.  
    DeadSpock
  • AmarantharAmaranthar OhioMember UncommonPosts: 2,956
    Maurgrim said:
    This are a question for those who started the MMOs back in late 90s and early 00s.

    What did you think back then how the future of MMOs would evolve and how much right and wrong are you today?
    I am totally wrong.
    UO was exactly the way I thought MMO's should be (ignoring specific problems and early development issues). Worlds.
    I expected it all to be enhanced and evolved into greater games.
    That didn't happen.
    I didn't know the world was so full of "give-me" types who wanted to be made winners in their own minds, as opposed to gamers who wanted challenge in their game.
    BruceYeeskadad

    Once upon a time....

  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus LondonMember RarePosts: 1,329
    Chronicles of Elyria, Crowfall, Camelot Unchained, Ashes of Creation, Star Citizen, Peria Chronicles, Project TL, etc.

    I'm happy with the direction it's going now. Question is whether we'd get to the destination or not.

    I was also happy with the direction when I followed SWToR, TSW, ESO, Wildstar, Archeage, TERA, Black Desert, etc. 

    I'm not playing any of those. So you can say my problem has never been with the direction but with the destination. It's the delivery that is killing it for me. 
    MrMelGibson
    Have you ever noticed that their stuff is shit and your shit is stuff?
  • delete5230delete5230 Member RarePosts: 4,221
    DMKano said:
    Maurgrim said:
    This are a question for those who started the MMOs back in late 90s and early 00s.

    What did you think back then how the future of MMOs would evolve and how much right and wrong are you today?

    I started with UO in 1998 and EQ1 in march 1999.

    Other than improving graphics I didnt have a clue how the gameplay would improve, but I thought that mmorpgs would move away from simple and antiquated "hitpool" and "damage" die roll mechanics to something that resembles real life simulation (when you punch someone or shoot somone in real life, there are no hitpoint bars or damage numbers)

    I always thought that real life physics, ecosystems and organism simulations would be what mmorpgs would be like - not anytime soon due to massive compute power that would require.

    So completely wrong.

    But I also had no idea how my lifestyle would change and how much family life with work and kiddo schedules would change how I play games.

    Never thought about that either back in 98/99 - I always assumed that I would have most of my day to devote to gaming.

    Was completely wrong too. 

    I also never considered how I would change as a person and that I would lose desire to spend 10 hours raiding which at one point back in early 2000s I thought was amazing.

    Zero desire to ever do that again today.

    So again very wrong.


    Am I happy with the direction that its going?

    Well gaming is going on all directions, so yes I am very happy. There is a larger variety of games being made by more people today than at any other point in history.

    I am having more fun gaming today than back in 98/99 due to so many different games.

    Never been a better time
    than right now.




    You admit mmos didn't evolve into what you expected, like everyone else here.  You contradict this by saying gaming has a larger variety.

    You have "no time" or any "desire" to play an mmorpg.  Because games evolved into what you want you say "never been a better time than right now". 

     I view this as being extremely selfish !
    postlarvalMrMelGibsonGdemami
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,410
    Just because your MMO interactions lacked meaning, doesn't mean that was the case for everyone else. I still play games and stay in contact with people I met 20 years ago in EQ.

    If all your interactions including the ones in your day to day are meaningless, it may be time for you to look inward.
    SovrathPhaserlight


  • ScotScot UKMember RarePosts: 6,629
    In so many MMORPG's, the Massive has become Tiny, the Multiplayer has become Soloplayer and the Roleplaying has disappeared. But its not all bad, they are still online. :)

    I thought we would have every larger MMOs, where gameplay would diversify, where group play and solo play stood side by side. Where RPG tools got better and communities grew.

    For a several years it seemed to be going that way. In many ways MMORPG's were online gaming communities, who needed social media? Today you can still find a like minded guild and make the game what you want it to be as best you can. But that huge promise MMO's had has been squandered.


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  • cheyanecheyane EarthMember EpicPosts: 4,907
    I hate action combat that is all I have to say.
    GraySeal
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  • Flyte27Flyte27 Greenwich, CTMember RarePosts: 4,170
    I miss the time period where people were less concerned about intelligence and things were a bit more chaotic.  Still, despite the chaos, people were allowed to be more creative in games.  I'm sure people in games now could be just as creative given the opportunity, but generally, they aren't given that opportunity in games.  It seemed like in old MMOs especially the players controlled the games more than the developers and it was a very niche group of like-minded players.  Most were fairly immature, but some were quite responsible and got all the groups together via word of mouth.

    I can't really enjoy modern games even though it is what the average player now seems to want.  I don't enjoy the concept of free to play or buying items in the game.  I don't find the game immersive at all with the quest structure and aim and fast-paced large quantities of content.  I've always found less is more in many cases.  When quests are rarer they are more meaningful.  

    Wheather people can solo or not isn't important to me.  I preferred that it was more difficult to solo in old games due to various factors like trains, not having leashes on mobs,  mobs being tuned for group play, etc.  That and a large array of abilities made experimentation in soloing quite enjoyable.

    I feel like the aspects I liked about MMOs are generally gone.  This is why I usually only play single player games now.  They are too invasive and simple-minded entertainment now.  The player base is not as fun.  I'm not really sure what purpose they serve or why lots of people play them.  There are so many single player games out there that offer the same thing but are often more interesting and less invasive in terms of reality invading the fantasy world.
  • TheAmirTheAmir Traverse City, MIMember UncommonPosts: 415
    Most MMORGPs these days are too linear for my taste, and those that aren't typically have PVP as the selling point--something I've little interest in. I miss the RPG part of MMOs, and that's been lacking for a long time. Also, I'm tired of hand-holding. I don't need a dot on my map to find every little location or quest. Let me just go find it. Let me figure things out--that's half the fun of a game. 
    GraySeal

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  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKMember LegendaryPosts: 17,116
    DMKano said:
    Maurgrim said:
    This are a question for those who started the MMOs back in late 90s and early 00s.

    What did you think back then how the future of MMOs would evolve and how much right and wrong are you today?

    I started with UO in 1998 and EQ1 in march 1999.

    Other than improving graphics I didnt have a clue how the gameplay would improve, but I thought that mmorpgs would move away from simple and antiquated "hitpool" and "damage" die roll mechanics to something that resembles real life simulation (when you punch someone or shoot somone in real life, there are no hitpoint bars or damage numbers)

    I always thought that real life physics, ecosystems and organism simulations would be what mmorpgs would be like - not anytime soon due to massive compute power that would require.

    So completely wrong.

    But I also had no idea how my lifestyle would change and how much family life with work and kiddo schedules would change how I play games.

    Never thought about that either back in 98/99 - I always assumed that I would have most of my day to devote to gaming.

    Was completely wrong too. 

    I also never considered how I would change as a person and that I would lose desire to spend 10 hours raiding which at one point back in early 2000s I thought was amazing.

    Zero desire to ever do that again today.

    So again very wrong.


    Am I happy with the direction that its going?

    Well gaming is going on all directions, so yes I am very happy. There is a larger variety of games being made by more people today than at any other point in history.

    I am having more fun gaming today than back in 98/99 due to so many different games.

    Never been a better time
    than right now.




    You admit mmos didn't evolve into what you expected, like everyone else here.  You contradict this by saying gaming has a larger variety.

    You have "no time" or any "desire" to play an mmorpg.  Because games evolved into what you want you say "never been a better time than right now". 

     I view this as being extremely selfish !


     You are not understanding what I said.

    1. Variety of games today and not knowing where MMOs were going 20 years ago - those two statements are neither contradictory nor mutually exclusive. 

    2. I have no desire to *raid* for 10 hours straight, reading comprehension is important. I still play MMOs, I just wont raid anymore


  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW New York, NYMember UncommonPosts: 503
    I wouldn't imagine the cash shop to be so popular.

    My experience in cash shop is mixed.  In some games I spend a few hundred dollar a month.  In some games I rarely spend any real money, and essentially paid less money than a 15$ subscription.
  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshMember RarePosts: 6,410
    I thought they'd be more "simulation" and less "game" than they are.
    DistopiaTorvalGraySealSovrathPhaserlight
  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDMember EpicPosts: 21,173
    cheyane said:
    I hate action combat that is all I have to say.
    Yeah have to agree, at least now that I'm about to hit 40. All I play now are turn based games, or real-time pause systems like Pillars of Eternity. The only exceptions I make are TES games and FO games because I love bethesda's slower paced worldly live another life approach. I didn't even like the WItcher 3 due to it's combat system (as well as lack of a do what you want feeling<- at least for me). 

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarreMember EpicPosts: 6,649
    edited December 2
    What I like about the direction some recent MMORPGs are taking:
    - Less dependency on classes, back to UO roots with more skill based character developments.
    - Less dependency on levels, you won't be unable to play with your friends if they gained a few levels while you were busy in real life.

    We are slowly moving away from 15 years of EQ clone dictatorship, and that's a very good thing. Good riddance.
    Post edited by Jean-Luc_Picard on
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  • GraySealGraySeal Edwardsville, ILMember UncommonPosts: 19
    I can remember playing EQ and imagining the possible.

    Modem connection to the internet was a barrier to better games.  I expected it to improve vastly and it has.  Data flow is faster and wider.

    Computer capability was a barrier.  I expected better processing  and it has in a big way.

    In response to the better data flow and computer processing I expected MMOGs to no longer be restrained and needing gimmicks such as static spawn.  I expected NPCs to be dyanmic and real.  I expected my more computer created landscaped.  I expected worlds to be infinitely huge.

    Well, we have gotten smoother game play.  Graphics are so much better.

    But, it seems hardware capability does not mean the gameplay will evolve.  Static spawn is a travesty if the goal is to create worlds.  Writing code to make NPCs who/which behave as individuals must be difficult.  Some games are huge worlds but lack a cohesive story or intelligence to them.

    I can not tell if the coding is still a mountain to climb or if creative talents are drawn to other software projects.


    Phaserlight
  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaMember EpicPosts: 13,175
    4 new purchases in the last month,all 4 i played a lot for one day and now lost interest to go back to them.
    I am very disappointed in the constant CHEAP game designs i am seeing all over the place.

    The game industry no longer looks like passionate game designers,it looks 100% like a business,design games as fast as possible,unless of course going the Star citizen route making more money without a product than you would with a crap finished game.

    If i were to make a game i would love to play,i would put a lot of thought into each area of design,what i see in games right now,is VERY little thought,linear,hand holding,simple games look like they were built for 8-10 year olds.

    When i saw people giving high fives to games like moba's and arpgs and stuff like Bloodthorne or whatever it was called,i shake my head in disbelief,seems the new generation of gamer's are a VERY easy sell,low standards and perhaps no clue what they are buying.

    I guess it is pretty obvious when we see twitch TV full of viewers and NOT players,there seems to be more interest in just hanging out than playing these games.
    Cyber-Demon

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember RarePosts: 27,651
    laxie said:
    Good. I don't play games for community and people. I treat most other players as NPCs anyway. If i want to make friends, i have plenty in real life. 
    I am the exact opposite. If I play a MMO, I usually hope to make friends and meet people. I'd play a single player game otherwise.


    If you treat MMOs as single player games, there is no difference. It is just a label anyway.

    I use entertainment products as i see fit. 
    laxie
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 15,001
    What I like about the direction some recent MMORPGs are taking:
    - Less dependency on classes, back to UO roots with more skill based character developments.
    - Less dependency on levels, you won't be unable to play with your friends if they gained a few levels while you were busy in real life.

    We are slowly moving away from 15 years of EQ clone dictatorship, and that's a very good thing. Good riddance.
    This is what I like too. I love how ESO is a huge open world I can go adventure anywhere in. It feels much less gamified than most MMOs. Some mmos have a lot more class flexibility now too.


    My first MMO was Lineage 1 then GW1 and on to LotRO and EQ2.

    I thought worlds would be more interactive. When I played those early game there was so much static stuff in the world that I couldn't interact with, it felt confining.

    I also thought MMOs would be less arcade-like and gamified. Raids and instances, daily loot tasks, big pinata hauls from dungeon runs, stratified progression, and all that other cruft. I did not expect MMOs to develop that direction. I also didn't expect them to turn into perpetual money bleeds that try and sell something at every turn. I also didn't expect them to become more expensive to create by factors compared to their forefathers.

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  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember RarePosts: 27,651
    Torval said:


    I thought worlds would be more interactive. When I played those early game there was so much static stuff in the world that I couldn't interact with, it felt confining.




    and i thought worlds are totally unnecessary. And i was right .. MMOs are more games and less worlds these days. 

    Exactly going where i like .. more entertainment, less simulation & chores. 
  • nightraidernightraider pittsburgh, PAMember UncommonPosts: 27

    Back in the day I didn't expect that other forms of social media would make MMOs of the future so antisocial.

    When I played my first MMO it was a totally new thing. Before that your gaming community was restricted. For multiplayer gaming, you either went to your friend's house to play their new console game or you packed up your PC and took it to a friend's place for a LAN party. In both cases, it was always that same small group of local friends you got to play with. MMOs changed all of that. For the first time you could play in the same game with people from all over the world. That was what that drew me into it originally. Being able to game with 2-16 friends in your local area is fine but the chance to see how you fare in comparison to the rest of the world was too good for me to pass up.

    However, what seemed amazing about it at the time is now underwhelming to the younger crowd who grew up with so many forms of social media. In those days our online game of choice WAS our social media! When waiting for a party or camping a boss our chat windows weren't empty whilst everyone was afk on their smartphones chatting with their social media friends in Skype or FB.. No! We would chat with each other, exchange stories, discussed things, and made friends while doing so. Now other players can't be bothered to type a couple words in the game's chat when you try to strike up a conversation. Although you can't see it, you know they are ignoring you and staring at their phones.

     In the old days I really thought that they would keep expanding on the social aspect of these games to the point where the other forms of social media at the time like internet chat rooms and instant messengers would be rendered obsolete by virtual online worlds.

    Instead we see the opposite happening. I couldn't have been more wrong about the future.

    So, in short, no. I can't say I'm happy with it.


    GraySeal
  • MaurgrimMaurgrim Member RarePosts: 831
    edited December 2
    To be honest I didn't know where the MMO games were going back when  I tried Meridian59 on a PCGamer disk back in mid 90s, play for 1 hour free then pay or reroll for another 1 hour.

    Of course I knew the graphics would be better but not sure how gameplay would be.
    I guess I was hoping for  a huge world really huge, where things happen all around without you as a player was involved you know a living world, a world you as a player played what you enjoyed may it be a adventures, barkeep, farmer, crafter or whatever  you as a player enjoyed playing and still having fun doing it.

    I didn't in my wildest dream think the MMORPG turned into a level step that max level means the game started with stupid dungeons to get pixles that will be useless when the next x-pack get released.

    Ashes of Creation might be the one.
    Post edited by Maurgrim on
    Jean-Luc_Picard
  • sunandshadowsunandshadow Pittsburgh, PAMember UncommonPosts: 1,723
    After reflecting on it more, one thing I definitely didn't expect is that PvP would be so oppressively universal.  I thought there would be more PvE-only games.  But it seems like no one thought that it would be the best return on development costs to focus on any kind of niche MMO audience; pretty much every MMO seems to be trying for the same excessively broad audience.
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  • Loke666Loke666 KalmarMember EpicPosts: 20,995
    dave6660 said:
    Loke666 said:
    I thought the genre would go closer to pen and paper RPGs but it seems it went closer to Diablo instead. I can't say I am very happy with that.
    With software like Fantasy Grounds and Roll20, it's easy to go back to PnP RPG's.  Especially when the people you used to play with live a thousand miles away.
    I prefer tabletop simular myself but that is not really what I meant. Playing RPGs with people through the net have worked for a long time but there is a lot of fun gameplay in P&P games you don't see in MMOs and it have become less since the 90s.

    I would say that the big difference is the freedom, in a P&P game the heroes more or less create the story together with the gamemaster, in a MMO you are only doing what the game constantly tells you even though you could make it far more like a P&P game if you wanted too.

    I believe MMORPGs have a lot more to learn from pen and paper games, the genre were created by people who played P&P games originally but they got cut out of the genre rather fast.

    If a DM would tell me to kill 10 rats in the taverns kitchen cellar I would find a new DM, it is just too boring but for some reason do MMO devs add so much boring that it is hard to find the fun stuff.
    Torval
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember RarePosts: 27,651
    Loke666 said:

    I believe MMORPGs have a lot more to learn from pen and paper games, the genre were created by people who played P&P games originally but they got cut out of the genre rather fast.

    If a DM would tell me to kill 10 rats in the taverns kitchen cellar I would find a new DM, it is just too boring but for some reason do MMO devs add so much boring that it is hard to find the fun stuff.

    nah .. video games and p&p games are just two vastly different medium. There is no way to do flashy, fast combat on p&p, and you can do that in video games.

    I wouldn't kill 10 rats in a p&p game, but i will kill 100 rats in a video games if i have lots of flashy skills to blow them up in tactically interesting ways. Heck, video games are superior in combat.

    And if i want a good story, i will go read a book. Most DMs are too amateurish to make any sort of good stories. 
  • aleosaleos na, INMember UncommonPosts: 1,901
    i always thought mmorpgs would amount to massive sprawling landscapes with explorable land air, sea, and space. Now look at it. 75 dollars for entry to an alpha that used to be free to a game that was actually released. Whole genre has turned into a dumpster dive.
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