EA's Bottom line Feeling the Heat

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  • ShodanasShodanas PatrasMember RarePosts: 1,860
    It seems that despite the uproar EA is staying firm on their MT / LootBox / P2W mantra. Their upcoming UFC 3 fighting sports game is filled with MT directly affecting player progression.

    Check this out: https://www.astutegaming.com/single-post/EASPORTSUFC3BETA

    bcbully
  • cheyanecheyane EarthMember EpicPosts: 4,907
    If you cannot control other people's spending habits, what is it that you can control ? What you yourself purchase I guess.
    image
  • R3d.GallowsR3d.Gallows CarcosaMember UncommonPosts: 131
    Stocks go up and stocks go down. Then they go up again. If EA can push through with this monetization model theyll be swimming in money. Totally worth a temporary setback from a business PoV. As long as lootboxes arent outright banned its bound to happen. Gamers have made noise about a lot of things, now most of these things are accepted and noone bats an eye at their mention.
    Huntrezz
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Elmira, ONMember EpicPosts: 5,876
    Scot said:
    Distopia said:
    Scot said:
    Distopia said:
    See no Government involvement needed, Capitalism at work...

    A good point, but without regulation they will simply find another way to sell gambling MT's. And they have not rolled back on any gambling MT's outside of one game you will notice.
     The thing is, to me, those boxes are no different than those toy or goo filled mystery eggs kids can't seem to get enough of.. It's essentially the same concept, as there is always something tangible when opened, whether it's what you wanted or not. And in a lot of cases they will ask for quarters until they get something they wanted. Do you feel they need regulated as well?
    Quarters is not the hundreds or thousands some kids/teens are spending. It is a parental problem, but do we just give up on it because parents can't be bothered until a huge bill comes in? For the mystery eggs, that's down to the parents, for loot boxes and the like they need some help, regulation is needed.

    But more than that gambling and gaming should not go together, there is a principle here. You will hear RNG talked about, but this is gambling for real cash to get an in game item.




    No, I think we need to define "some" and the "why". Problem is that most of the talk is addressing the symptoms and not the problem. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 16,435
    CrazKanuk said:
    Scot said:
    Distopia said:
    Scot said:
    Distopia said:
    See no Government involvement needed, Capitalism at work...

    A good point, but without regulation they will simply find another way to sell gambling MT's. And they have not rolled back on any gambling MT's outside of one game you will notice.
     The thing is, to me, those boxes are no different than those toy or goo filled mystery eggs kids can't seem to get enough of.. It's essentially the same concept, as there is always something tangible when opened, whether it's what you wanted or not. And in a lot of cases they will ask for quarters until they get something they wanted. Do you feel they need regulated as well?
    Quarters is not the hundreds or thousands some kids/teens are spending. It is a parental problem, but do we just give up on it because parents can't be bothered until a huge bill comes in? For the mystery eggs, that's down to the parents, for loot boxes and the like they need some help, regulation is needed.

    But more than that gambling and gaming should not go together, there is a principle here. You will hear RNG talked about, but this is gambling for real cash to get an in game item.




    No, I think we need to define "some" and the "why". Problem is that most of the talk is addressing the symptoms and not the problem. 
    I dont even think 'the problem' is anything other than imaginary.

    First you have to know that kids/teens are being directly affected by these choices (nobody here ACTUALLY know that just pretends to)
    Second off you need to be able to measure exactly how its affecting them negatively and who it is affecting exactly.
    Then you have to ask yourself honestly, is that child that is someone elses child really very honestly the thing you are concerned about?

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • HeraseHerase LondonMember RarePosts: 917
    edited December 1
    Shodanas said:
    It seems that despite the uproar EA is staying firm on their MT / LootBox / P2W mantra. Their upcoming UFC 3 fighting sports game is filled with MT directly affecting player progression.

    Check this out: https://www.astutegaming.com/single-post/EASPORTSUFC3BETA

    True, but i doubt this will pass by casually like it would have probably in the past. All they're doing it letting people not forget. That it's already sparked people say they're in for another ride.

    I'm curious if Mighty Mouse has any thought as a gamer/Twitch streamer as he's face is associated with it. 
    Post edited by Herase on
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Nashville, TNMember EpicPosts: 2,974
    CrazKanuk said:
    Distopia said:
    Scot said:
    Distopia said:
    See no Government involvement needed, Capitalism at work...

    A good point, but without regulation they will simply find another way to sell gambling MT's. And they have not rolled back on any gambling MT's outside of one game you will notice.
     The thing is, to me, those boxes are no different than those toy or goo filled mystery eggs kids can't seem to get enough of.. It's essentially the same concept, as there is always something tangible when opened, whether it's what you wanted or not. And in a lot of cases they will ask for quarters until they get something they wanted. Do you feel they need regulated as well?
    Those mystery eggs are a form of gambling, yes. 

    But, please remember that the default position is not to regulate gambling. There are 1000s of forms of gambling, but only a small amount are regulated. 

    Gambling only needs to become regulated when there is a significant chance of it leading to repeated gambling, as repeated gambling is what causes the problems. 


    So, mystery eggs with toys inside (kinder surprise in the uk) have been deemed to not be problematic. Why? Because the chances of leading to repeated gambling are very low. First, the perceived value of the winnings (the toy) is extremely low, so there is minimal motivation to engage in this type of gambling. Second, there is an equal chance of getting any of the toys, so even if you did repeatedly buy them for the toys, it won't take long to get everything. Third, there are no external pressures persuading you to repeatedly buy them. 


    Paid-for-lootboxes are a different proposition. The perceived value of the best items (be it ultra rare mounts, outfits or straight up player advantages) provides a strong motivation to participate. The odds are so low that you will have to repeat it a lot. Winning the top items will cause a big release in dopamine, which if you repeat regularly will alter the way your brain works. Also, the game mechanics / ui often encourages you to participate, which is predatory. 



    It is also worth noting that some countries around the world already do regulate paid-for-lootboxes in the same way as gambling for money. 

    Is there a study on that? Remember that video games do the same thing (release dopamine into the system). So stating that as reason for this to be banned would actually be a step backwards for gaming. The fact that dopamine is released means very little because dopamine is released for any activity that the body that it deems pleasurable........ weeeellllllll not exactly. It's actually released in anticipation of something pleasurable. Also, while it plays a part in addiction, it isn't the CAUSE of addiction. The brains motivational system isn't that binary, sorry. 

    So!! Just to re-cap, it's entirely possible for someone to be invested just as heavily in kinder eggs as they are in loot crates. The reason being, that this release of dopamine can be very contextual. If I've been trying to get Ariel from that kinder egg forEVER!!! I probably have a vested stake in what's going to be inside. It's very similar to how we place value on these virtual items. 

    It's quite obvious that your value of these toys is very low. Similarly, I'm sure there are an equal number of people who view these virtual items as worthless. 

    BTW, they don't have kinder eggs in the US and you can be charged $2000 per egg if you attempt to bring them into the country. Scary
    Kinder eggs aren't patenting ways to place you in direct competition with others who have spent more on the eggs.

    Sorry, but those industries aren't taking it anywhere near the level of video games.

    image
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember RarePosts: 27,651
    Scot said:

    Quarters is not the hundreds or thousands some kids/teens are spending. It is a parental problem, but do we just give up on it because parents can't be bothered until a huge bill comes in? 


    Yes. If a parent is stupid enough to give a teen a big limit on their credit card, they have no one to blame but themselves.

    I have kids, and they have credit cards. We control and monitor their ccs very tightly. We do not want the govt to get anywhere to how we allow or not allow our kids to spend money.
    Gdemami
  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW New York, NYMember UncommonPosts: 503
    I really doubt EA will change anything.  Check what they doing with UFC 3.
  • laseritlaserit Vancouver, BCMember EpicPosts: 5,049
    Regulation is not about controlling what or how you spend.

    Regulation is about rules. Rules for industries, not people. That's all regulations are.

    It's not if it's going to be regulated. It's how, where and when it's going to be regulated.
    GdemamiIselin

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 10,937
    edited December 4
    Scot said:
    It is a parental problem, but do we just give up on it because parents can't be bothered until a huge bill comes in?


    Who is this 'we'? My spendings is supposed to be under goverment/whoever oversight now...?


    You people are crazy.
    Post edited by Gdemami on
  • ShamorauShamorau melbourneMember UncommonPosts: 180
    lets be honest financially is the only way that someone the size of EA can be hurt and may finally pay attention. the problem we gamers face as well are those amongst us that dont see the ptw as a problem, but a choice. i wonder how many of them get pissed when they get beat by a player who is not necessarily better, but just spent cash to make them better. Also there are those who are still going to get a ptw game regardless because its "star wars." or whatever the big lable may be.
  • k61977k61977 Pendleton, SCMember RarePosts: 784
    CrazKanuk said:
    Distopia said:
    Scot said:
    Distopia said:
    See no Government involvement needed, Capitalism at work...

    A good point, but without regulation they will simply find another way to sell gambling MT's. And they have not rolled back on any gambling MT's outside of one game you will notice.
     The thing is, to me, those boxes are no different than those toy or goo filled mystery eggs kids can't seem to get enough of.. It's essentially the same concept, as there is always something tangible when opened, whether it's what you wanted or not. And in a lot of cases they will ask for quarters until they get something they wanted. Do you feel they need regulated as well?
    Those mystery eggs are a form of gambling, yes. 

    But, please remember that the default position is not to regulate gambling. There are 1000s of forms of gambling, but only a small amount are regulated. 

    Gambling only needs to become regulated when there is a significant chance of it leading to repeated gambling, as repeated gambling is what causes the problems. 


    So, mystery eggs with toys inside (kinder surprise in the uk) have been deemed to not be problematic. Why? Because the chances of leading to repeated gambling are very low. First, the perceived value of the winnings (the toy) is extremely low, so there is minimal motivation to engage in this type of gambling. Second, there is an equal chance of getting any of the toys, so even if you did repeatedly buy them for the toys, it won't take long to get everything. Third, there are no external pressures persuading you to repeatedly buy them. 


    Paid-for-lootboxes are a different proposition. The perceived value of the best items (be it ultra rare mounts, outfits or straight up player advantages) provides a strong motivation to participate. The odds are so low that you will have to repeat it a lot. Winning the top items will cause a big release in dopamine, which if you repeat regularly will alter the way your brain works. Also, the game mechanics / ui often encourages you to participate, which is predatory. 



    It is also worth noting that some countries around the world already do regulate paid-for-lootboxes in the same way as gambling for money. 

    Is there a study on that? Remember that video games do the same thing (release dopamine into the system). So stating that as reason for this to be banned would actually be a step backwards for gaming. The fact that dopamine is released means very little because dopamine is released for any activity that the body that it deems pleasurable........ weeeellllllll not exactly. It's actually released in anticipation of something pleasurable. Also, while it plays a part in addiction, it isn't the CAUSE of addiction. The brains motivational system isn't that binary, sorry. 

    So!! Just to re-cap, it's entirely possible for someone to be invested just as heavily in kinder eggs as they are in loot crates. The reason being, that this release of dopamine can be very contextual. If I've been trying to get Ariel from that kinder egg forEVER!!! I probably have a vested stake in what's going to be inside. It's very similar to how we place value on these virtual items. 

    It's quite obvious that your value of these toys is very low. Similarly, I'm sure there are an equal number of people who view these virtual items as worthless. 

    BTW, they don't have kinder eggs in the US and you can be charged $2000 per egg if you attempt to bring them into the country. Scary
    Off Topic, responding to the part about Kinder eggs in the US.  Read an article just this week that as of next year you will be able to buy Kinder eggs in the US.  Don't know the specifics yet, but was interesting to see this.  They were banned as being a chocking hazard, wonder what changed.
    CrazKanuk
  • ThebeastttThebeasttt Grah, ALMember RarePosts: 1,064
    Why do people throw such a fit for PC gamble games when mobile ones are 10x worse? It's pretty common for kids to spend thousands on mobile games like Final Fantasy Brave Exvius, for instance.

    At least hate them all equally instead of picking and choosing whatever goes viral.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 10,937
    edited December 4
    It's pretty common for kids to spend thousands on mobile games like Final Fantasy Brave Exvius, for instance.
    ...not that it would change anything but just out of curiosity, what data do you base the claim on?

    People like to make this claim a lot but so far no data.
    Post edited by Gdemami on
    CrazKanuk
  • forcelimaforcelima Atlanta, GAMember UncommonPosts: 214
    edited December 4
    "For the children!" is the slogan always used to get idiots to bypass any critical thinking and just use emotion to form opinions. Look I dislike MT's as much as the next guy but you must be wary when you invite gov. In to regulate anything because their track record never seems to help "the people" but only to line their pockets.   

     In closing. Don't cut your nose off to spite your face.
    Post edited by forcelima on

    Pre-release:
    -"Trion is the best publisher XL could have found for AA"
    -"AA will be different in the west, Trion won't mess it up"
    -"Trion's ArcheAge"
    -"Trion will make their own decision according to what's best for AA on the western market"
    -"Trion has total control, it will literally be a different game over here"

    Post-release:
    "People have to learn that it's not Trion's game and that there is little they can do".

    -Volgore

  • vomomotovomomoto Member UncommonPosts: 68
    When an entire guild (mine), that had players spend hundreds of hours on the first PS4 Battlefront, DITCHES the sequel and goes back to the original game, well you may have a problem.

    I sent my copy back to Amazon, citing false advertising and deceptive practices, and they gave me a refund. Good thing I did it too, since the game is $30 now (less with GCU).

    Since I am a bit tired of the original PS4 Battlefront, I will not be going back to it. Instead, I will most likely buy BF2 again when they release the complete edition with the season pass and all the DLC. For now, there are still too many games on my to play list to bother with this fiasco.
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 16,435
    vomomoto said:
    When an entire guild (mine), that had players spend hundreds of hours on the first PS4 Battlefront, DITCHES the sequel and goes back to the original game, well you may have a problem.

    I sent my copy back to Amazon, citing false advertising and deceptive practices, and they gave me a refund. Good thing I did it too, since the game is $30 now (less with GCU).

    Since I am a bit tired of the original PS4 Battlefront, I will not be going back to it. Instead, I will most likely buy BF2 again when they release the complete edition with the season pass and all the DLC. For now, there are still too many games on my to play list to bother with this fiasco.
    now false advertising is an area I can have some agreement on. I mean I dont have a problem with someone trying to sell you a piece of dog poop as long as they tell you its a piece of dog poop.

    I havent followed this game much so how did they false advertise? I am curious
    vomomoto

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • vomomotovomomoto Member UncommonPosts: 68
    SEANMCAD said:
    vomomoto said:
    When an entire guild (mine), that had players spend hundreds of hours on the first PS4 Battlefront, DITCHES the sequel and goes back to the original game, well you may have a problem.

    I sent my copy back to Amazon, citing false advertising and deceptive practices, and they gave me a refund. Good thing I did it too, since the game is $30 now (less with GCU).

    Since I am a bit tired of the original PS4 Battlefront, I will not be going back to it. Instead, I will most likely buy BF2 again when they release the complete edition with the season pass and all the DLC. For now, there are still too many games on my to play list to bother with this fiasco.
    now false advertising is an area I can have some agreement on. I mean I dont have a problem with someone trying to sell you a piece of dog poop as long as they tell you its a piece of dog poop.

    I havent followed this game much so how did they false advertise? I am curious
    Direct line that is still being used: "Master Your Hero Not just an iconic hero - your hero. Master your craft with customizable character progression. Upgrade abilities unique to each hero, trooper class, and starfighter. Use these abilities to adapt and modify your character’s powers, either as lethal active effects on your opponents, helpful status boosts, or tactical assistance, to counter any opponent on the battlefront."

    Not anywhere does it say that you can't play as said character unless you unlock them after playing for 50 hours, and then spend hundreds of hours grinding out random loot boxes just to "customize" the hero.

    Sorry about responding to you :smile:
    Gdemami
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember RarePosts: 27,651
    vomomoto said:
    When an entire guild (mine), that had players spend hundreds of hours on the first PS4 Battlefront, DITCHES the sequel and goes back to the original game, well you may have a problem.

    I sent my copy back to Amazon, citing false advertising and deceptive practices, and they gave me a refund. Good thing I did it too, since the game is $30 now (less with GCU).

    Since I am a bit tired of the original PS4 Battlefront, I will not be going back to it. Instead, I will most likely buy BF2 again when they release the complete edition with the season pass and all the DLC. For now, there are still too many games on my to play list to bother with this fiasco.

    So what is the problem?

    You have a choice. No one forces to play a game that is problematic to you. In fact, you tried it, and got a refund.

    So everything is working just as it should. 

    Clearly EA has the freedom to put whatever they want in their games, and you have the freedom of not to play. The "free" part of the free market works perfectly in your case. 
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 16,435
    edited December 4
    vomomoto said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    vomomoto said:
    When an entire guild (mine), that had players spend hundreds of hours on the first PS4 Battlefront, DITCHES the sequel and goes back to the original game, well you may have a problem.

    I sent my copy back to Amazon, citing false advertising and deceptive practices, and they gave me a refund. Good thing I did it too, since the game is $30 now (less with GCU).

    Since I am a bit tired of the original PS4 Battlefront, I will not be going back to it. Instead, I will most likely buy BF2 again when they release the complete edition with the season pass and all the DLC. For now, there are still too many games on my to play list to bother with this fiasco.
    now false advertising is an area I can have some agreement on. I mean I dont have a problem with someone trying to sell you a piece of dog poop as long as they tell you its a piece of dog poop.

    I havent followed this game much so how did they false advertise? I am curious
    Direct line that is still being used: "Master Your Hero Not just an iconic hero - your hero. Master your craft with customizable character progression. Upgrade abilities unique to each hero, trooper class, and starfighter. Use these abilities to adapt and modify your character’s powers, either as lethal active effects on your opponents, helpful status boosts, or tactical assistance, to counter any opponent on the battlefront."

    Not anywhere does it say that you can't play as said character unless you unlock them after playing for 50 hours, and then spend hundreds of hours grinding out random loot boxes just to "customize" the hero.

    Sorry about responding to you :smile:
    well that is unfortunate because that is not remotely close to false advertising, not even in the same solar system as false and no I am not about to explain because one should know better.

    They also dont tell you in that add that you have your using WSAD on the PC version, one doesnt have to disclouse everything in order for it to not be false.
    Post edited by SEANMCAD on
    Gdemami

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

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