EA's Bottom line Feeling the Heat

Gobstopper3DGobstopper3D Member UncommonPosts: 529
It appears EA's monetization model for SWBF2 is costing them.  http://www.pcgamer.com/electronic-arts-stock-sheds-3-billion-in-value-after-battlefront-2/

I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.

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Comments

  • HarikenHariken Brighton, MAMember RarePosts: 1,748
    Any bad news this company gets makes me smile.
    XodicAeanderSiugcameltosisanemomrputtsroalandSedrynTyrosTuor7bwwianakievand 2 others.
  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDMember EpicPosts: 21,173
    See no Government involvement needed, Capitalism at work...
    XodicAeanderSiuganemoScotunfilteredJWmrputtsroalandwaynejr2forcelimaand 1 other.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Chicago, ILMember EpicPosts: 6,212
    "Initial sales have reportedly flagged, but the real problem is the loot box boondoggle."  Boondoggle?!? I thought it was a kerfuffle...
    SedrynTyrosConstantineMerus

    "Change is the only constant."


  • jitter77jitter77 Greensburg, PAMember UncommonPosts: 204
    I dont think the loot boxes is the main problem.  I think the game is just not that great.  I love Star Wars, I love battlefield games, but neither battlefront game does it for me.  Sounds and graphics are good, but something just seems off with the gameplay.
    Gdemami
  • DauzqulDauzqul Detroit, MIMember RarePosts: 1,709
    jitter77 said:
    I dont think the loot boxes is the main problem.  I think the game is just not that great.  I love Star Wars, I love battlefield games, but neither battlefront game does it for me.  Sounds and graphics are good, but something just seems off with the gameplay.
    It was the greed.

    The game itself isn't amazing, but it's certainly good enough not to deserve this mass amount of hate.
    SiugSedrynTyrosHerase
  • Gobstopper3DGobstopper3D Member UncommonPosts: 529
    edited November 29
    While I like Star wars, you couldn't pay me to buy this game.  From what I have read in the reviews, the mtx is one of the problems, but it goes far deeper than that.  The SP story seems to be the best part of the game and that lasts 4-5 hrs and it even has problems.  The core of the game, MP, seems to be better than the previous, but still seems weak.

    The scores seem to indicate that there are deeper problems with the game other than just MTX back-lash.
    Post edited by Gobstopper3D on

    I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember RarePosts: 27,659
    Dauzqul said:

    It was the greed.

    The game itself isn't amazing, but it's certainly good enough not to deserve this mass amount of hate.

    Greed is fine. I don't expect any companies have my best interest at heart.

    I wonder if the single player campaign is any good. I love the hate. It will drop the prices soon, and even push this to Origin Access faster. It is probably a few hours of fun playing the SP campaign.

    And if not, no harm done. It is not like I am going to pay full price for this game. 
  • ScotScot UKMember RarePosts: 6,649
    Distopia said:
    See no Government involvement needed, Capitalism at work...

    A good point, but without regulation they will simply find another way to sell gambling MT's. And they have not rolled back on any gambling MT's outside of one game you will notice.
    Gdemami

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

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  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Elmira, ONMember EpicPosts: 5,888
    Scot said:
    Distopia said:
    See no Government involvement needed, Capitalism at work...

    A good point, but without regulation they will simply find another way to sell gambling MT's. And they have not rolled back on any gambling MT's outside of one game you will notice.

    And with regulation they will simply find another way to sell MTs. Simple as that. 
    DistopiaunfilteredJWConstantineMerusforcelima

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDMember EpicPosts: 21,173
    Scot said:
    Distopia said:
    See no Government involvement needed, Capitalism at work...

    A good point, but without regulation they will simply find another way to sell gambling MT's. And they have not rolled back on any gambling MT's outside of one game you will notice.
     The thing is, to me, those boxes are no different than those toy or goo filled mystery eggs kids can't seem to get enough of.. It's essentially the same concept, as there is always something tangible when opened, whether it's what you wanted or not. And in a lot of cases they will ask for quarters until they get something they wanted. Do you feel they need regulated as well?
    unfilteredJWGdemamiheerobyaConstantineMerusforcelima

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAMember LegendaryPosts: 23,203
    Distopia said:
    Scot said:
    Distopia said:
    See no Government involvement needed, Capitalism at work...

    A good point, but without regulation they will simply find another way to sell gambling MT's. And they have not rolled back on any gambling MT's outside of one game you will notice.
     The thing is, to me, those boxes are no different than those toy or goo filled mystery eggs kids can't seem to get enough of.. It's essentially the same concept, as there is always something tangible when opened, whether it's what you wanted or not. And in a lot of cases they will ask for quarters until they get something they wanted. Do you feel they need regulated as well?
    When you put it that way, it's sort of like Cracker Jack.
    DistopiaConstantineMerus



  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Long Island, NYMember RarePosts: 1,088
    Distopia said:
    Scot said:
    Distopia said:
    See no Government involvement needed, Capitalism at work...

    A good point, but without regulation they will simply find another way to sell gambling MT's. And they have not rolled back on any gambling MT's outside of one game you will notice.
     The thing is, to me, those boxes are no different than those toy or goo filled mystery eggs kids can't seem to get enough of.. It's essentially the same concept, as there is always something tangible when opened, whether it's what you wanted or not. And in a lot of cases they will ask for quarters until they get something they wanted. Do you feel they need regulated as well?
    Show me where kids all over are spending thousands of dollars on these mystery eggs. And yes they are similar and most adults tell their kids enough is enough and do not let them spend thousands of dollars on them.


    GdemamiThebeasttt
  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDMember EpicPosts: 21,173
    edited December 1

    Show me where kids all over are spending thousands of dollars on these mystery eggs. And yes they are similar and most adults tell their kids enough is enough and do not let them spend thousands of dollars on them.


    Kids all over spending thousands? If kids have access to that kinda money unsupervised, that's a parental problem...

    There are also much worse things they'd have access to with those kinda funds, if they have no one stopping them... 
    Post edited by Distopia on
    forcelima

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Long Island, NYMember RarePosts: 1,088
    Distopia said:

    Show me where kids all over are spending thousands of dollars on these mystery eggs. And yes they are similar and most adults tell their kids enough is enough and do not let them spend thousands of dollars on them.


    Kids all over spending thousands? If kids have access to that kinda money unsupervised, that's a parental problem...

    There are also much worse things they'd have access to with those kinda funds, if they have no one stopping them... 
    So there if there is no thousands of kids spending money on those eggs is it the same? No because the kids parents are there with them and tell them no. Not like gaming where the kids are not supervised most of the time. You can go on all you want about parents this and parents that but there is a reason why there are laws in place so you have to be a certain age to gamble.

    These loot boxes have now crossed over into that territory of being 100% gambling. Slowly they chipped away and now it looks like many are willing to accept gambling. No one ever realizes when that kid grows up with a gambling addiction and ends up breaking the law it does end up costing them money to house that person in jail. In the end gambling costs everyone.

    Its like drug addiction, someone has to pay the medical bills when the addicted go to the hospital. Someone has to pay the insurance when someone with an addition steals something. You will always pay, you just don't realize it. Of course you could just let the person overdose. Someone has to pay to pick up the body and dispose of it. And that comes from your taxes.

    TL:DR - If left unchecked everyone will end up paying.
    DistopiaGdemamiforcelima
  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Long Island, NYMember RarePosts: 1,088
    Sovrath said:
    Distopia said:
    Scot said:
    Distopia said:
    See no Government involvement needed, Capitalism at work...

    A good point, but without regulation they will simply find another way to sell gambling MT's. And they have not rolled back on any gambling MT's outside of one game you will notice.
     The thing is, to me, those boxes are no different than those toy or goo filled mystery eggs kids can't seem to get enough of.. It's essentially the same concept, as there is always something tangible when opened, whether it's what you wanted or not. And in a lot of cases they will ask for quarters until they get something they wanted. Do you feel they need regulated as well?
    When you put it that way, it's sort of like Cracker Jack.
    Cracker Jacks, you are paying for the sugar in the box. The toy or whatever is a prize.

    If it was the same there would be no candy. Just a box with random items.
    Gdemami
  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDMember EpicPosts: 21,173
    Distopia said:

    Show me where kids all over are spending thousands of dollars on these mystery eggs. And yes they are similar and most adults tell their kids enough is enough and do not let them spend thousands of dollars on them.


    Kids all over spending thousands? If kids have access to that kinda money unsupervised, that's a parental problem...

    There are also much worse things they'd have access to with those kinda funds, if they have no one stopping them... 
    So there if there is no thousands of kids spending money on those eggs is it the same? No because the kids parents are there with them and tell them no. Not like gaming where the kids are not supervised most of the time. You can go on all you want about parents this and parents that but there is a reason why there are laws in place so you have to be a certain age to gamble.

    These loot boxes have now crossed over into that territory of being 100% gambling. Slowly they chipped away and now it looks like many are willing to accept gambling. No one ever realizes when that kid grows up with a gambling addiction and ends up breaking the law it does end up costing them money to house that person in jail. In the end gambling costs everyone.

    Its like drug addiction, someone has to pay the medical bills when the addicted go to the hospital. Someone has to pay the insurance when someone with an addition steals something. You will always pay, you just don't realize it. Of course you could just let the person overdose. Someone has to pay to pick up the body and dispose of it. And that comes from your taxes.

    TL:DR - If left unchecked everyone will end up paying.
    You're taking what is most likely solitary cases and blowing it up drastically that much is obvious... Which makes any conversation pointless...

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Elmira, ONMember EpicPosts: 5,888
    Distopia said:
    Scot said:
    Distopia said:
    See no Government involvement needed, Capitalism at work...

    A good point, but without regulation they will simply find another way to sell gambling MT's. And they have not rolled back on any gambling MT's outside of one game you will notice.
     The thing is, to me, those boxes are no different than those toy or goo filled mystery eggs kids can't seem to get enough of.. It's essentially the same concept, as there is always something tangible when opened, whether it's what you wanted or not. And in a lot of cases they will ask for quarters until they get something they wanted. Do you feel they need regulated as well?
    Show me where kids all over are spending thousands of dollars on these mystery eggs. And yes they are similar and most adults tell their kids enough is enough and do not let them spend thousands of dollars on them.



    Show me where kids all over are spending thousands of dollars on Microtransactions. You have one case. If you'd like google trading card addiction. Even better, just check out this extensive lise of addictions . My favorite is applause addiction. That should be a fun one to regulate :) 

    GdemamiDistopia

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member RarePosts: 6,304
    edited December 1
    Many of those are abuse but not addictions. The evidence so far shoes that you can't become addicted to you on chemicals. So no adrenaline junkies are not affected to their adrenaline.

    And no there to be such thing as addictive personality. There are people with multiple disregulated receptors though.

    Addiction is a receptor disregulation. No receptor then no addiction. If it's regulating properly then there is no addiction. The rest would be abuse.

    So no you can't become addicted to anything. Surprisingly is that many don't seem to be able to become addicted to many things we typically find extremely addictive. E.g. cocaine epidemiology studies door that only about 25% of the population can become addicted to it. That is so a very high number. Alcohol virtually everyone can become addicted as it sits on so many different receptors.

    Some of the most recent research is trying to determine just how those receptors disregulate.

    Receptors can also re regulate just by self talk. 12 step programs are therefore equally effective for abuse and addictions.
    Post edited by VengeSunsoar on
    Gdemami
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • cameltosiscameltosis ipswichMember EpicPosts: 1,745
    Distopia said:
    Scot said:
    Distopia said:
    See no Government involvement needed, Capitalism at work...

    A good point, but without regulation they will simply find another way to sell gambling MT's. And they have not rolled back on any gambling MT's outside of one game you will notice.
     The thing is, to me, those boxes are no different than those toy or goo filled mystery eggs kids can't seem to get enough of.. It's essentially the same concept, as there is always something tangible when opened, whether it's what you wanted or not. And in a lot of cases they will ask for quarters until they get something they wanted. Do you feel they need regulated as well?
    Those mystery eggs are a form of gambling, yes. 

    But, please remember that the default position is not to regulate gambling. There are 1000s of forms of gambling, but only a small amount are regulated. 

    Gambling only needs to become regulated when there is a significant chance of it leading to repeated gambling, as repeated gambling is what causes the problems. 


    So, mystery eggs with toys inside (kinder surprise in the uk) have been deemed to not be problematic. Why? Because the chances of leading to repeated gambling are very low. First, the perceived value of the winnings (the toy) is extremely low, so there is minimal motivation to engage in this type of gambling. Second, there is an equal chance of getting any of the toys, so even if you did repeatedly buy them for the toys, it won't take long to get everything. Third, there are no external pressures persuading you to repeatedly buy them. 


    Paid-for-lootboxes are a different proposition. The perceived value of the best items (be it ultra rare mounts, outfits or straight up player advantages) provides a strong motivation to participate. The odds are so low that you will have to repeat it a lot. Winning the top items will cause a big release in dopamine, which if you repeat regularly will alter the way your brain works. Also, the game mechanics / ui often encourages you to participate, which is predatory. 



    It is also worth noting that some countries around the world already do regulate paid-for-lootboxes in the same way as gambling for money. 
    Gdemami
  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDMember EpicPosts: 21,173
    Distopia said:
    Scot said:
    Distopia said:
    See no Government involvement needed, Capitalism at work...

    A good point, but without regulation they will simply find another way to sell gambling MT's. And they have not rolled back on any gambling MT's outside of one game you will notice.
     The thing is, to me, those boxes are no different than those toy or goo filled mystery eggs kids can't seem to get enough of.. It's essentially the same concept, as there is always something tangible when opened, whether it's what you wanted or not. And in a lot of cases they will ask for quarters until they get something they wanted. Do you feel they need regulated as well?
    Those mystery eggs are a form of gambling, yes. 

    But, please remember that the default position is not to regulate gambling. There are 1000s of forms of gambling, but only a small amount are regulated. 

    Gambling only needs to become regulated when there is a significant chance of it leading to repeated gambling, as repeated gambling is what causes the problems. 


    So, mystery eggs with toys inside (kinder surprise in the uk) have been deemed to not be problematic. Why? Because the chances of leading to repeated gambling are very low. First, the perceived value of the winnings (the toy) is extremely low, so there is minimal motivation to engage in this type of gambling. Second, there is an equal chance of getting any of the toys, so even if you did repeatedly buy them for the toys, it won't take long to get everything. Third, there are no external pressures persuading you to repeatedly buy them. 


    Paid-for-lootboxes are a different proposition. The perceived value of the best items (be it ultra rare mounts, outfits or straight up player advantages) provides a strong motivation to participate. The odds are so low that you will have to repeat it a lot. Winning the top items will cause a big release in dopamine, which if you repeat regularly will alter the way your brain works. Also, the game mechanics / ui often encourages you to participate, which is predatory. 



    It is also worth noting that some countries around the world already do regulate paid-for-lootboxes in the same way as gambling for money. 
    That's because different Governments have different ideologies as well market regulation. 

    Dopamine is a short release that has little long term effect. Hence why gaming addiction as a whole is not seen as a widespread issue that needs regulating.

    Speaking of which what makes short releases like Lootboxes more problematic than gaming itself? You get much more of that from actual game mechanics than you do the one off nature of a loot box. They're advertised and pushed every where you look as well (games) so by the logic above that should be viewed as predatory... 

    I'd say it's much more likely that a person who is deeply "addicted" to the game, is the one most likely to partake in the caveats like these boxes. So what is the bigger issue there? Without the game addiction, there's no real reason to want to get more for that game... Maybe we should instead look at regulating the time one person is allowed to spend in a game on a daily basis?


    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Nashville, TNMember EpicPosts: 3,019
    edited December 1
    Distopia said:
    Scot said:
    Distopia said:
    See no Government involvement needed, Capitalism at work...

    A good point, but without regulation they will simply find another way to sell gambling MT's. And they have not rolled back on any gambling MT's outside of one game you will notice.
     The thing is, to me, those boxes are no different than those toy or goo filled mystery eggs kids can't seem to get enough of.. It's essentially the same concept, as there is always something tangible when opened, whether it's what you wanted or not. And in a lot of cases they will ask for quarters until they get something they wanted. Do you feel they need regulated as well?
    It's not though.  I posted a video elsewhere that discusses this same thing with a psychologist.  He notes the similarities, just as you do, but he also contrasts the associated practices that video game producers employ that go beyond what's comparable to mystery filled eggs.  Things such as Star Cards of killer displaying on death, the algorithm Activision patented this year...  These things make lootboxes psychologically more predatory than any mystery egg.
    Post edited by MadFrenchie on
    Gdemami

    image
  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDMember EpicPosts: 21,173
    Distopia said:
    Scot said:
    Distopia said:
    See no Government involvement needed, Capitalism at work...

    A good point, but without regulation they will simply find another way to sell gambling MT's. And they have not rolled back on any gambling MT's outside of one game you will notice.
     The thing is, to me, those boxes are no different than those toy or goo filled mystery eggs kids can't seem to get enough of.. It's essentially the same concept, as there is always something tangible when opened, whether it's what you wanted or not. And in a lot of cases they will ask for quarters until they get something they wanted. Do you feel they need regulated as well?
    It's not though.  I posted a video elsewhere that discusses this same thing with a psychologist.  He notes the similarities, just as you do, but he also contrasts the associated practices that video game producers employ that go beyond what's comparable to mystery filled eggs.  Things such as Star Cards of killer displaying on death, the algorithm Activision patented this year...  These things make lootboxes psychologically more predatory than any mystery egg.
    But the question is are any of those things illegal? Or are they simply ugly money making practices?

    When I load up my Mansions of Madness board game app. Every other scenario is an extra I need to pay more money for, most of which cost quite a bit for what you get (30 bucks or more).. for little more than a handful of plastic miniatures, and a few tiles. They've made sure to put them right in front of you when you're picking a game setting, not even in order, it will be one I have then one I don't when going through the list. These "predatory" practices are everywhere in gaming, both virtual or otherwise. 

    While these are not loot boxes, they do show the same type of marketing pattern, call it predatory, or whatever you want. 

    Again I'm not saying it's the same as a loot box, it's just the predatory angle, is how everything is done today, no matter the product we're speaking toward. 

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Elmira, ONMember EpicPosts: 5,888
    Distopia said:
    Scot said:
    Distopia said:
    See no Government involvement needed, Capitalism at work...

    A good point, but without regulation they will simply find another way to sell gambling MT's. And they have not rolled back on any gambling MT's outside of one game you will notice.
     The thing is, to me, those boxes are no different than those toy or goo filled mystery eggs kids can't seem to get enough of.. It's essentially the same concept, as there is always something tangible when opened, whether it's what you wanted or not. And in a lot of cases they will ask for quarters until they get something they wanted. Do you feel they need regulated as well?
    Those mystery eggs are a form of gambling, yes. 

    But, please remember that the default position is not to regulate gambling. There are 1000s of forms of gambling, but only a small amount are regulated. 

    Gambling only needs to become regulated when there is a significant chance of it leading to repeated gambling, as repeated gambling is what causes the problems. 


    So, mystery eggs with toys inside (kinder surprise in the uk) have been deemed to not be problematic. Why? Because the chances of leading to repeated gambling are very low. First, the perceived value of the winnings (the toy) is extremely low, so there is minimal motivation to engage in this type of gambling. Second, there is an equal chance of getting any of the toys, so even if you did repeatedly buy them for the toys, it won't take long to get everything. Third, there are no external pressures persuading you to repeatedly buy them. 


    Paid-for-lootboxes are a different proposition. The perceived value of the best items (be it ultra rare mounts, outfits or straight up player advantages) provides a strong motivation to participate. The odds are so low that you will have to repeat it a lot. Winning the top items will cause a big release in dopamine, which if you repeat regularly will alter the way your brain works. Also, the game mechanics / ui often encourages you to participate, which is predatory. 



    It is also worth noting that some countries around the world already do regulate paid-for-lootboxes in the same way as gambling for money. 

    Is there a study on that? Remember that video games do the same thing (release dopamine into the system). So stating that as reason for this to be banned would actually be a step backwards for gaming. The fact that dopamine is released means very little because dopamine is released for any activity that the body that it deems pleasurable........ weeeellllllll not exactly. It's actually released in anticipation of something pleasurable. Also, while it plays a part in addiction, it isn't the CAUSE of addiction. The brains motivational system isn't that binary, sorry. 

    So!! Just to re-cap, it's entirely possible for someone to be invested just as heavily in kinder eggs as they are in loot crates. The reason being, that this release of dopamine can be very contextual. If I've been trying to get Ariel from that kinder egg forEVER!!! I probably have a vested stake in what's going to be inside. It's very similar to how we place value on these virtual items. 

    It's quite obvious that your value of these toys is very low. Similarly, I'm sure there are an equal number of people who view these virtual items as worthless. 

    BTW, they don't have kinder eggs in the US and you can be charged $2000 per egg if you attempt to bring them into the country. Scary
    Distopia

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • ScotScot UKMember RarePosts: 6,649
    Distopia said:
    Scot said:
    Distopia said:
    See no Government involvement needed, Capitalism at work...

    A good point, but without regulation they will simply find another way to sell gambling MT's. And they have not rolled back on any gambling MT's outside of one game you will notice.
     The thing is, to me, those boxes are no different than those toy or goo filled mystery eggs kids can't seem to get enough of.. It's essentially the same concept, as there is always something tangible when opened, whether it's what you wanted or not. And in a lot of cases they will ask for quarters until they get something they wanted. Do you feel they need regulated as well?
    Quarters is not the hundreds or thousands some kids/teens are spending. It is a parental problem, but do we just give up on it because parents can't be bothered until a huge bill comes in? For the mystery eggs, that's down to the parents, for loot boxes and the like they need some help, regulation is needed.

    But more than that gambling and gaming should not go together, there is a principle here. You will hear RNG talked about, but this is gambling for real cash to get an in game item.


    Gdemami

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

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  • Panther2103Panther2103 Edmonds, WAMember RarePosts: 3,551
    They better be redoing the systems for UFC 3 coming out soon because based on what a reviewer said, all of your stats are based off of items only obtained from lootboxes. If they don't redo that system, they are basically hammering another nail into their wallets.
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