MMORPG.com : General : Hawaii's Chris Lee - 'Together We Can Stop Predatory Gaming Practices'

13

Comments

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Nashville, TNMember EpicPosts: 2,974
    edited November 28
    I think it's pathetic that this issue needs a politician. Honestly, this issue starts and ends with gamers. If someone wants to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on a game, it's their personal decision. I mean, aren't there more pressing issues than this?

    I prefer to keep politicians and so-called "feminists" out of the gaming industry. We now live in a world that wants to legalize marijuana but limit your soft drinks to 16 ounces https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugary_Drinks_Portion_Cap_Rule. I'm not a soda lover, but shouldn't people be allowed to purchase what they want without the government being involved?

    It's gamers and their lack of control that started this problem in the first place.
    Again, that was fine and dandy until diabetes and obesity started affecting everyone else's health insurance.  Americans pay more for health insurance than any other nation (per person).  Guess who's top 3 in the world for diabetics and top 20 in obesity rates? U.S.A!  U.S.A!

    Just like with corporate regulations, the government only steps in when the body being regulated has shown they can't be trusted to do so themselves.
    Post edited by MadFrenchie on
    YashaXGdemami

    image
  • flames0042flames0042 santa ana, CAMember UncommonPosts: 3
    These liberal fucking hacks can piss off.
    Government needs to stay the fuck out of gaming. Turns out when we do not like a game or a company we don't buy their stuff. Government can screw off.
    MrMelGibsonYashaXzimike
  • REd-WindREd-Wind Member UncommonPosts: 47
    Fuck. yeahhhhhh. PTW is bs especialy those which scuker you into it by showing you its only ftp at first.
  • KellerKeller UtrechtMember UncommonPosts: 430

    SBFord said:

    @Scellow Excessive profanity aside, this wasn't a huge issue for 99% of gamers until about 2 weeks ago with Star Wars: Battlefront 2.  Better now, than never. :|



    and gamers don´t make laws. Vote with your wallet? Experience tells, people always will buy an advantage in game... from buying ingame currency, power leveling, perks, hacks, etc.

    So yeah, it's good politicians pick this up.
    MrMelGibsonYashaXGdemami
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Algo Star SystemMember EpicPosts: 2,017
    I really question the sense of those who say "just don't buy it" like it's a cut and dry matter of purchase. It's about the industry and standards. If gamble to win goes unchecked it becomes the standard. "Just don't buy it" becomes, "go find something else to do". Same with any other consumer protections or regulations.
    IselinBruceYeeMrMelGibsonYashaXGdemamiMabushii
  • xxtriadxxxxtriadxx ThereMember UncommonPosts: 154


    Go away "progressives" We do not need gaming regulated by the State.
    MadFrenchieFlyByKnightMrMelGibsonYashaXGorwe
  • klash2defklash2def Member RarePosts: 869
    this is a good thing believe it or not. I could care less about a politician but I really care that this one is taking a stand (regardless of his reason) maybe dude is a gamer who knows, but it feels good to know somebody is holding these greedy publishers accountable.. the gambling/loot-boxes/feeding on gamer addiction thing has gotten worse with each game released. You can blame gamers all you want, but at the end of the day we don't put the gambling shit in the games THEY do. They treat video games like mini casinos and not like video games. They aren't really the same. Something needs to be done.

    You can and should hold a drug addict accountable for their actions, but at some point we need to go after the dealer too or nothing really changes.

    i remember when cash shops were only in mobile games..
    Angry Chicken
    USMC 2nd Mar Div/RCT 2/2nd LAR (Veteran)
    Music Supervisor
  • RenoakuRenoaku Member RarePosts: 2,403
    Well I am happy the issue came to light, ill start passing this whole new article around so more game companies and players become aware starting in Discord Chat because I am sick of some of this game industry too.

    It's really not good for us Whales, or the Young / Addict to gaming people.
  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIMember RarePosts: 9,153
    He's looking for an opportunity to get paid... eeer lobbied...
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Algo Star SystemMember EpicPosts: 2,017
    xxtriadxx said:


    Go away "progressives" We do not need gaming regulated by the State.

    BruceYeeMrMelGibsonFonclYashaX
  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson USAMember EpicPosts: 2,314
    edited November 28
    xxtriadxx said:


    Go away "progressives" We do not need gaming regulated by the State.
    Surprised you are even on the internet.  After all, the computer was invented by a gay progressive Atheist.
    Post edited by MrMelGibson on
    IselinYashaXGorweCrazKanukMabushiiTorval
  • GrintchGrintch Tampa, FLMember UncommonPosts: 79
    I guess he's going to legislate on closing all the casino's next, right? Or maybe try to ban State lotteries? Maybe after that, they'll try to stop weekly poker games at someones house?
    YashaX
  • WraithoneWraithone Member UncommonPosts: 3,726

    Sovrath said:


    Torval said:


    Sovrath said:


    Iselin said:

    Whatever his motives (and he claims to be a gamer himself) this will bring more exposure and wider discussion about something that gaming industry execs don't want exposed nor discussed widely... net positive.


    Exactly. I'm not one for government regulation for such stuff but if one is concerned then this isn't going to be a detriment.

    We'll see. One thing I learned while I was in the Navy, is that it can always get worse.


    oh dear ...



    Much, MUCH worse... If you want something REALLY messed up, get the government involved in it. In field after field, the more government is involved, the more expensive it is, and the more the quality suffers as well.

    Be VERY careful what you wish for in terms of government intervention. *You* may have a clear idea of the problem, and possible solutions, but a politician has entirely different perspectives and motivations.

    The results might not be what you are expecting/hoping for.
    YashaX
    "If you can't kill it, don't make it mad."
  • blamo2000blamo2000 Member UncommonPosts: 167
    I don't like loot boxes. I don't like tons of things. I hate people who own trucks but have no need or use for a big truck bed. I hate people who dislike cheese. I hate almost every AAA game because they are shallow and lack any sort of complexity and usually the game part of being a game. But I don't want any of these things to be illegal. I think people who want to dictate how another person has to act, believe, or spend their money by government force are truly the scum of the earth. Honestly, I think this is generational more than anything. Young kids these days think they are smart and know things and are somehow entitled to inflict their beliefs on others. This is tyranny and fascism. Live and let live. If you don't like something just hate it, shake your angry fist at it, give it a piece of your mind, just stop trying to legislate how other people live, act, and believe. Maybe one day I will want to buy loot boxes for some reason. Maybe some day I'll buy a truck or find a food cheese doesn't make better. Maybe I'll buy NWN EE because I want my money to go to money-grubbing con artists like Enron and Bernie Madoff. I want to do as I want and I want everyone else to do what they want, even when I hate what they do.

    One of my favorite quotes is, "They very hallmark of liberty is abuse." This means people should always be allowed to do that which you hate and disagree with.
    DistopiaGorwe
  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDMember EpicPosts: 21,173
    SBFord said:
    I guess the way I look at is that political involvement is good if it brings attention to the issue and grabs parents by the nose and forces them to look at their kids' spending habits. The so-called iGen is most vulnerable to this stuff since they've grown up thinking microtransactions are the "norm" and think it's "cool" to purchase loot boxes without thinking of long term repercussions.

    I'm as skeptical as the next person about politicians. But in this case? I think it's a good thing.
    How many kids are actually doing this though? I keep seeing people bring in the kids angle, yet no one I've seen has shown any actual numbers on this. How many kids take their parents CC without permission due to an addiction, how many parents feed such addictions willingly? Without that it seems more of a "compassion tactic" to amplify a certain agenda. 

    What all of this seems to me is people jumping on board a campaign against something they don't like by using a widely held phobia (gambling)... to heighten their argument regardless of any factual data on how much of a problem this "gambling" issue is. Without such info I want the government as far away as possible. 




    GdemamiTorvalMrMelGibson

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • FonclFoncl Member UncommonPosts: 268
    It seems to me like you have bigger problems over there in America. How is democracy supposed to work if so few trust the people elected to represent you? :/

    My feeling here in the EU is that people are generally glad that the Belgians are looking into lootboxes in games and want a Europe-wide ban.
    YashaX
  • BruceYeeBruceYee Member RarePosts: 1,083
    Distopia said:
    SBFord said:
    I guess the way I look at is that political involvement is good if it brings attention to the issue and grabs parents by the nose and forces them to look at their kids' spending habits. The so-called iGen is most vulnerable to this stuff since they've grown up thinking microtransactions are the "norm" and think it's "cool" to purchase loot boxes without thinking of long term repercussions.

    I'm as skeptical as the next person about politicians. But in this case? I think it's a good thing.
    How many kids are actually doing this though? I keep seeing people bring in the kids angle, yet no one I've seen has shown any actual numbers on this. How many kids take their parents CC without permission due to an addiction, how many parents feed such addictions willingly? Without that it seems more of a "compassion tactic" to amplify a certain agenda. 

    What all of this seems to me is people jumping on board a campaign against something they don't like by using a widely held phobia (gambling)... to heighten their argument regardless of any factual data on how much of a problem this "gambling" issue is. Without such info I want the government as far away as possible. 




    People don't usually advertise their addictions and problems..

    When was the last time anyone admitted to you that they are a sex addict or had an eating disorder?

    What if gambling it games triggers an addiction and they don't even realize they have a problem because it's "just cosmetic" or "just a game"? I'm sure some of the users on this site are addicted to the gambling aspect in games and that's why they are defending it so hard. Ever try taking ____ away from an addict? They'll say anything and everything to prevent ____ from being taken away.

    I don't know if this Hawaii guy is being sincere with his crusade or if it's political but taking the gambling part out of games doesn't hurt the consumer at all so what's the problem?
    Gdemami
  • ElminzterElminzter MelbourneMember UncommonPosts: 273
    imo, it's America's corporate greed, the virus has spread from wall street to our homes, since when has america shy away from making money out of BS. The usual shareholders expectation, take a look at most of the stock prices for these AAA companies it's valued at over 100, which wasnt the case before...

    that's why Amercia is the richest country on this planet, no country even comes close, refering to no of fortune 10 companies here !!!

    it wouldnt stop with lootboxes, it will be something else when games move away from traditional source of income to sinister forms of getting more $$$ from their consumers, same as the iphones/ipads being so feature rich that most ordinary people are using only 50% of its function but paying for it's full features ....

    my 2 cents.


  • YashaXYashaX Baldurs GateMember RarePosts: 2,002
    Grintch said:
    I guess he's going to legislate on closing all the casino's next, right? Or maybe try to ban State lotteries? Maybe after that, they'll try to stop weekly poker games at someones house?
    Lol, you sound like the Roy Moore of MMORPG.
    MrMelGibson
    ....
  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 982
    edited November 28
    Distopia said:
    SBFord said:
    I guess the way I look at is that political involvement is good if it brings attention to the issue and grabs parents by the nose and forces them to look at their kids' spending habits. The so-called iGen is most vulnerable to this stuff since they've grown up thinking microtransactions are the "norm" and think it's "cool" to purchase loot boxes without thinking of long term repercussions.

    I'm as skeptical as the next person about politicians. But in this case? I think it's a good thing.
    How many kids are actually doing this though? I keep seeing people bring in the kids angle, yet no one I've seen has shown any actual numbers on this. How many kids take their parents CC without permission due to an addiction, how many parents feed such addictions willingly? Without that it seems more of a "compassion tactic" to amplify a certain agenda. 
    How many kids have to do it?  For the most part, at least in my opinion and most historically others, it only takes a couple of kids screwing up for things to get to a point where something should be done.  And while we don't have overall numbers on the total number of kids who do this, we do know for sure that at least a few did (since I've seen at least five different articles about five different kids who spent more than $10,000 behind they're parents' backs), which IMHO should be more than enough.

    That said, a quick google search on "kids spending on free to play games" shows there's at least one study that says kids make up 8% of the spending for mobile games, at least.  Considering the whole "70% of the players account for 50% of the revenue" thing, that also means quite a few of those kids are probably whales.

    https://venturebeat.com/2015/08/18/kids-gaming-makes-up-nearly-8-of-mobile-game-spending-worldwide/

    Here's some other ones from that search that may be of interest.

    https://kotaku.com/5988036/kids-reveal-the-real-flaws-of-free-to-play-games

    (enough kids did it that there's a class action law suit against Apple about it, which they had to settle)

    https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/blog/2014/09/kids-app-spending-android-parents-didnt-app-rove

    (enough kids did it that there's also a class action law suit against Google about it, which they had to settle)

    And just in case it still needed to be said, two studies that say that "nearly every kid plays video games"

    http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=5817835

    http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=5817835

    Which means that they're at least exposed to this sort of thing.

    Again, how many kids should it take?  We already know that it happens to SOME kids, and we already know that nearly ALL kids play games.  And the companies already know that these types of practices prey off the same psychology as gambling does, and precedent in the law is already such that gambling is NOT supposed to be a kids thing.

    In my opinion and what I'd hope would be most peoples' opinions, that should be more than enough to at least warrant SOME protection against this sort of thing.
    Post edited by Tiamat64 on
  • GorweGorwe Ald'RuhnMember RarePosts: 4,279
    xxtriadxx said:


    Go away "progressives" We do not need gaming regulated by the State.
    So you prefer to trust gaming masses who blindly purchase annual CoD games etc? They have NO willpower!
    blamo2000 said:
    I don't like loot boxes. I don't like tons of things. I hate people who own trucks but have no need or use for a big truck bed. I hate people who dislike cheese. I hate almost every AAA game because they are shallow and lack any sort of complexity and usually the game part of being a game. But I don't want any of these things to be illegal. I think people who want to dictate how another person has to act, believe, or spend their money by government force are truly the scum of the earth. Honestly, I think this is generational more than anything. Young kids these days think they are smart and know things and are somehow entitled to inflict their beliefs on others. This is tyranny and fascism. Live and let live. If you don't like something just hate it, shake your angry fist at it, give it a piece of your mind, just stop trying to legislate how other people live, act, and believe. Maybe one day I will want to buy loot boxes for some reason. Maybe some day I'll buy a truck or find a food cheese doesn't make better. Maybe I'll buy NWN EE because I want my money to go to money-grubbing con artists like Enron and Bernie Madoff. I want to do as I want and I want everyone else to do what they want, even when I hate what they do.

    One of my favorite quotes is, "They very hallmark of liberty is abuse." This means people should always be allowed to do that which you hate and disagree with.
    Honestly, yes. You do and believe what you want. As long as it's within the law. In fact, excessive policing of what someone does / believes is...wrong. "I don't have to agree with you, but I'll fight for your right to speak up / do"
  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 982
    edited November 28
    Gorwe said:
    xxtriadxx said:


    Go away "progressives" We do not need gaming regulated by the State.
    So you prefer to trust gaming masses who blindly purchase annual CoD games etc? They have NO willpower!
    blamo2000 said:
    I don't like loot boxes. I don't like tons of things. I hate people who own trucks but have no need or use for a big truck bed. I hate people who dislike cheese. I hate almost every AAA game because they are shallow and lack any sort of complexity and usually the game part of being a game. But I don't want any of these things to be illegal. I think people who want to dictate how another person has to act, believe, or spend their money by government force are truly the scum of the earth. Honestly, I think this is generational more than anything. Young kids these days think they are smart and know things and are somehow entitled to inflict their beliefs on others. This is tyranny and fascism. Live and let live. If you don't like something just hate it, shake your angry fist at it, give it a piece of your mind, just stop trying to legislate how other people live, act, and believe. Maybe one day I will want to buy loot boxes for some reason. Maybe some day I'll buy a truck or find a food cheese doesn't make better. Maybe I'll buy NWN EE because I want my money to go to money-grubbing con artists like Enron and Bernie Madoff. I want to do as I want and I want everyone else to do what they want, even when I hate what they do.

    One of my favorite quotes is, "They very hallmark of liberty is abuse." This means people should always be allowed to do that which you hate and disagree with.
    Honestly, yes. You do and believe what you want. As long as it's within the law. In fact, excessive policing of what someone does / believes is...wrong. "I don't have to agree with you, but I'll fight for your right to speak up / do"
    Ben Franklin (the origination of that quote) never said he'd fight for your right to DO something.  Just to SAY something.  If you fight for peoples' rights to DO something, then you run into the logical extreme of whether or not it's alright to allow people to do things like murder or drunk driving or peeing on the street.  Or in this case, to give a more relevant example, marketting tobacco to kids.
    Post edited by Tiamat64 on
  • ScotScot UKMember RarePosts: 6,629
    I agree, with his premise but anything that becomes a political bandwagon is a concern. The initial proposal can turn into something else and we may get far more regulation than is needed.

    But finally a New Hope has dawned...ouch sorry about that one. :)

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy? :P

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 16,435

    SEANMCAD said:



    We have two choices.

    Let the government regulate micro-transactions
    Let the gaming industry regulate micro-transactions

    The government wants to exploit for taxation and control.
    The gaming industry wants to exploit for pure profit.

    which is better?

    PFFT!


    there is a 3rd choice.

    Not buy games that are not enjoyable



    Ha! Because no one enjoys illegal stuff XD

    It's kinda sad reading this thread and seeing how many people have no idea how the world works.
    ummmm...the idea behind 'not buying those games' is that those companies wouldnt make money off a stolen game.

    and if its possible to steal a game AND do micro-transactions at the same time, if people are willing to do so it just is evidence that people like microtransactions

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 16,435
    This has been a big problem for some time, it was only a matter of time before some company tried to turn a AAA game into a full on casino. Lootboxes need to die, get this shit out of our games.
    I wish people would start to notice that for the most part indies do it for the love of the game, so called AAA firms do it to fuck you.


    I have known this for years
    TorvalMrMelGibson

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

Sign In or Register to comment.