Do we really need old school?

24

Comments

  • Viper482Viper482 Somewhere, FLMember RarePosts: 1,685
    Maurgrim said:
    It has been so many talks about old school this old school that how good it was back then compare to today.
    I guess It was for you back then, It might have been your first MMO or second one you fell in love with, you really enjoyed it all due to it was new and strange, you played your game for many years during your teens.

    Fast forward today.

    You write fondly how It were better in the old days, how community were formed and you really loath today's gaming industry because they are like fast food, you really can't find your game, you know that feeling you had in your room when you were 14, you try every MMOs that comes out yet that feeling don't come.

    You start your crusade on gaming sites that you want MMOs to go back to old school just like when you started out when you got the first kiss of gaming, how "hard" it was how "elite" it was, not like young punks today, they don't know shit how it was in the old days.

    Of course it were better in the old days, it were your first or second MMO, you have fond memories back then how much fun you had how much fun you had in groups because groups were needed, and most important thing you had time to play them.

    Yes I had fun times in UO althou only played for a month due to had a crappy work and low salary, and yes I loved EQ for a year, took  a break and started beta test ww2online and enjoyed it but got stuck in EVE Online in 03 to 07 and did skipped WoW to play EQ2.

    I don't miss the old days, not at all, I find some of the new games really great, do I miss the old times in EQ? HELL NO, they sucked ass they were fun BACK THEN not now.

    Fond memories yes, you wont get the same feeling even if a MMO gets released with every feature you wanted, It's still not the same thing.



    Cool story bro.

    If you don't want old school don't play old school. Tired of people like you telling me what I should and should not like when it comes to MMOs. I like the old school experience, so what? Who are you to tell me what I want? That it is all "nostalgia". Seriously, I don't care if you don't want it, why should you care if I do?
    SovrathdeniterBeatnik59
  • LuidenLuiden Member UncommonPosts: 109
    DMKano said:
    As far as games made for masses - like MMOs - devs go where the money is. 

    Action combat has far bigger audience today - hence the shift.

    But there will always be indie dev studios that are trying to cater to smaller groups - so no worries.

    I think this is partially true, a more correct statement is that devs develop games the kids want to play.  Over the past 10 years those kids have been millennials and the games have glaringly been developed for them, (F2P, buy pretty much anything instantly with real life money, etc) Gen X would have never done this.  When people think back to the glory old days of gaming they are thinking back to a time where the games were developed for Gen X, where you had to earn your rewards and back when there was a journey to the game. 

    The millennial version doesn't have that, it's more about getting to the end game pretty much instantly, buying special mounts and gear and make yourself feel like you have accomplished something.  That's how games are designed today, buy xp boasts to get you to the end, cash shops that let you buy just about anything, advertising that it's 'free' when in actually you are paying far more than a regular sub game would need, only a millennial would fall for this.

    The good news is when are about to leave the dark ages of gaming, the millennials are getting older and the new generation is just coming out of highschool which means we should start seeing more interesting games being developed very soon.  BTW, this new generation is by far, by far more interesting and engaging than millennials are, I'm excited to see how games developed for them turn out as I think those games will be much more interesting to Gen X and even what's left of the Baby Boomers.  

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAMember LegendaryPosts: 23,081
    edited November 13
    Viper482 said:




    Cool story bro.

    If you don't want old school don't play old school. Tired of people like you telling me what I should and should not like when it comes to MMOs. I like the old school experience, so what? Who are you to tell me what I want? That it is all "nostalgia". Seriously, I don't care if you don't want it, why should you care if I do?
    Yeah, I agree.

    I understand their points but the whole "nostalgia" argument is only about one thing; the emotions, experiences one had with their first/second game.

    It doesn't address that games today are designed differently. I think part of their problem is that they only see the world through a very narrow lens, not realizing the immense amount of content that humanity has created over 100's of years that doesn't fit into today's mold of "what's good/desirable". Yet, people still want to watch/listen/experience this content because it has such great merit and is so unique and different.

    Same with these games.

    Wanting an old school experience is no different than wanting to watch movies from the 30's/40's. Or listening to Organum.

    Also, some like to point out that "we're now adults (even though I was an adult when I started playing mmorpg's) and have responsibilities, family, job etc so we can't play these games".

    Not everyone's life is constructed in such a way where they center their time around family or mowing the lawn.

    And quite frankly, I have more time now then was I was younger and more money. If I need to clean my house or if I had a lawn, I'd hire someone to do it.
    Post edited by Sovrath on
    Viper482Beatnik59KickaxeGobstopper3DCogohi



  • Flyte27Flyte27 Greenwich, CTMember RarePosts: 4,116
    Luiden said:
    DMKano said:
    As far as games made for masses - like MMOs - devs go where the money is. 

    Action combat has far bigger audience today - hence the shift.

    But there will always be indie dev studios that are trying to cater to smaller groups - so no worries.

    I think this is partially true, a more correct statement is that devs develop games the kids want to play.  Over the past 10 years those kids have been millennials and the games have glaringly been developed for them, (F2P, buy pretty much anything instantly with real life money, etc) Gen X would have never done this.  When people think back to the glory old days of gaming they are thinking back to a time where the games were developed for Gen X, where you had to earn your rewards and back when there was a journey to the game. 

    The millennial version doesn't have that, it's more about getting to the end game pretty much instantly, buying special mounts and gear and make yourself feel like you have accomplished something.  That's how games are designed today, buy xp boasts to get you to the end, cash shops that let you buy just about anything, advertising that it's 'free' when in actually you are paying far more than a regular sub game would need, only a millennial would fall for this.

    The good news is when are about to leave the dark ages of gaming, the millennials are getting older and the new generation is just coming out of highschool which means we should start seeing more interesting games being developed very soon.  BTW, this new generation is by far, by far more interesting and engaging than millennials are, I'm excited to see how games developed for them turn out as I think those games will be much more interesting to Gen X and even what's left of the Baby Boomers.  

    I am part of gen x and am not willing to say we were better.  I do think things were more exciting and interesting for me, but on the flip side bullying and abuse was almost an accepted norm during the 80s and 90s.  This made for more interesting stories and interaction IMO, but also was unhealthy for people in many ways.  I guess everything has its ups and downs.  Things do change with different generations, but I'm not sure how great it would be to go back to the concepts of that time period even if we could.  Gen X loved to be punished.  We were willing to do unhealthy things to ourselves in the name of fun.  We were taught to tuff things out and disregard pain.  There was a lot less information available to us.  Some of these things are what made the games more fun, but at the same time hurt us over time.  The Millennials are much more connected via social media and have access to a lot better advice when it comes to being healthy.  I think their identity as a generation is more to do with being responsible, polite, and healthy.   Things obviously can change quickly and the next generation may feel it's too restrictive.  I guess we will see what happens.  I think it would be hard for any new generation to go the wild route that we saw in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s as social media always forces people to behave in a certain way in this day and age.  One thing I miss a lot from the 80s and 90s is Halloween.  It's just very different now with how it's approached and is a good example of why MMOs are less fun for me.  There wasn't much information available in those days and Halloween was a really scary event.  Kids would go out on their own, misbehave, watch scary movies, and cause havoc.  There was this magical atmosphere that is lost in this day and age of control.  It was the same way with early MMOs.  They were a magical experience for me at least.  Even if MMOs are recreated the same way it won't be the same experience IMO.
  • HarikenHariken Brighton, MAMember RarePosts: 1,716
    DeadSpock said:
    Main reason they felt good was the community there were very few toxic players vs now it's like 90% toxic and 10% REAL gamers and they were forced grouping from the get go not like now you can solo to level cap like wtf. Games were build for gamers vs now build for masses. Back in the days I knew many that were not gamers at all didn't play videogames but they did play strategy games including Warcraft which was a strategy game for you younglings that don't know that, so fast forward WoW releases all these non gamers joined gamers and word got out even more non gamers join mmorpg name becomes mainstream everyone and their mother know now what mmorpg are and what do the masses do when they join in? COMPLAIN about everything like oh too much grind(mofo we gamer love grind stfu), too difficult(go back to facebook and phone apps) takes for ever to go from one place to the other(stupid devs: insta travel added and killed immersion) Wow got shit every patch and every expac cause of these fake gamers that all they do is complain and mess the whole genre for the geeks at heart.
    100 % this
    Once mmo's became mainstream it turned into toxic garbage. Back in the early days you were surprised if you ran into an ass hole. Today you expect it. The oly thing that's changed in mmo's is the graphics. We are all still playing EQ. 
    DeadSpock
  • NildenNilden Canada, NBMember RarePosts: 2,265
    edited November 13
    Hell most games can't even be bothered to compete with vanilla Everquest.

    It had 12 classes, now some new games lucky to see 5 or 6.

    Races, starting towns, spell variety, spell numbers, items, number of zones, monster variety, level design, etc etc etc. Even 3D swimmable water (looking at you ESO and FFXIX). I can't believe how lazy they are when it comes to comparing to EQ.

    Old school literally let's you see gamers being charged more for less.

    http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/447954/the-vanilla-everquest-comparison/p1

    Post edited by Nilden on

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
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  • RobsolfRobsolf Grand Rapids, MIMember UncommonPosts: 4,428
    Flyte27 said:
    DeadSpock said:
    Main reason they felt good was the community there were very few toxic players vs now it's like 90% toxic and 10% REAL gamers and they were forced grouping from the get go not like now you can solo to level cap like wtf. Games were build for gamers vs now build for masses. Back in the days I knew many that were not gamers at all didn't play videogames but they did play strategy games including Warcraft which was a strategy game for you younglings that don't know that, so fast forward WoW releases all these non gamers joined gamers and word got out even more non gamers join mmorpg name becomes mainstream everyone and their mother know now what mmorpg are and what do the masses do when they join in? COMPLAIN about everything like oh too much grind(mofo we gamer love grind stfu), too difficult(go back to facebook and phone apps) takes for ever to go from one place to the other(stupid devs: insta travel added and killed immersion) Wow got shit every patch and every expac cause of these fake gamers that all they do is complain and mess the whole genre for the geeks at heart.
    This is inaccurate.  I was in games in MMOs in the 90s and players were far more toxic.  I was one of them.  Most people were more laid back about and accepting of bad behavior and raging as it was part of our lives.  Now you can't say or do anything without someone reprimanding you, you reprimanding them, or a moderating reprimanding one of you.  That doesn't mean there weren't rules we all followed to coexist.  To me, this freedom made the game fun though.  Doing bad things can create a more exciting environment to play in.

    I do think that the games being new had a large impact on the fun.  Things are always more fun when they are at that experimental stage and few truly understand what they are all about.

    Agree... I think the key to the nostalgia, for me, was having little idea what kind of game I was about to experience.  And then learning the ropes and getting by, and then finding out it gets deeper and deeper. 

    These days, by simple experience, you start a new MMO knowing how about 70% of it works.  Discovering that remaining 30% is often either a short journey followed by that "Okay, now what?" feeling, or a long, tedious one where not much happens.  GW2 was a bit like the latter when it launched.

    And it's in that way(if not others that many would argue) that new MMO's are like single player games.  Short learning curve, with the emphasis on story progression rather than radical character/gameplay development. 

    I still enjoy the newer games, and I still can't help but roll my eyes at the posts that say stuff like: "If an old school game were made today, it would decimate all".  But I do think there's a market for old school games, and I'm glad there are some good teams out there trying to put them together.  And ya know... I do wonder what pre-cu SWG would be like with a better interface and not having your character rubber-band all over the place...

    Cogohi
  • LuidenLuiden Member UncommonPosts: 109
    Flyte27 said:
    Luiden said:
    DMKano said:
    As far as games made for masses - like MMOs - devs go where the money is. 

    Action combat has far bigger audience today - hence the shift.

    But there will always be indie dev studios that are trying to cater to smaller groups - so no worries.

    I think this is partially true, a more correct statement is that devs develop games the kids want to play.  Over the past 10 years those kids have been millennials and the games have glaringly been developed for them, (F2P, buy pretty much anything instantly with real life money, etc) Gen X would have never done this.  When people think back to the glory old days of gaming they are thinking back to a time where the games were developed for Gen X, where you had to earn your rewards and back when there was a journey to the game. 

    The millennial version doesn't have that, it's more about getting to the end game pretty much instantly, buying special mounts and gear and make yourself feel like you have accomplished something.  That's how games are designed today, buy xp boasts to get you to the end, cash shops that let you buy just about anything, advertising that it's 'free' when in actually you are paying far more than a regular sub game would need, only a millennial would fall for this.

    The good news is when are about to leave the dark ages of gaming, the millennials are getting older and the new generation is just coming out of highschool which means we should start seeing more interesting games being developed very soon.  BTW, this new generation is by far, by far more interesting and engaging than millennials are, I'm excited to see how games developed for them turn out as I think those games will be much more interesting to Gen X and even what's left of the Baby Boomers.  

    I am part of gen x and am not willing to say we were better.  I do think things were more exciting and interesting for me, but on the flip side bullying and abuse was almost an accepted norm during the 80s and 90s.  This made for more interesting stories and interaction IMO, but also was unhealthy for people in many ways.  I guess everything has its ups and downs.  Things do change with different generations, but I'm not sure how great it would be to go back to the concepts of that time period even if we could.  Gen X loved to be punished.  We were willing to do unhealthy things to ourselves in the name of fun.  We were taught to tuff things out and disregard pain.  There was a lot less information available to us.  Some of these things are what made the games more fun, but at the same time hurt us over time.  The Millennials are much more connected via social media and have access to a lot better advice when it comes to being healthy.  I think their identity as a generation is more to do with being responsible, polite, and healthy.   Things obviously can change quickly and the next generation may feel it's too restrictive.  I guess we will see what happens.  I think it would be hard for any new generation to go the wild route that we saw in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s as social media always forces people to behave in a certain way in this day and age.  One thing I miss a lot from the 80s and 90s is Halloween.  It's just very different now with how it's approached and is a good example of why MMOs are less fun for me.  There wasn't much information available in those days and Halloween was a really scary event.  Kids would go out on their own, misbehave, watch scary movies, and cause havoc.  There was this magical atmosphere that is lost in this day and age of control.  It was the same way with early MMOs.  They were a magical experience for me at least.  Even if MMOs are recreated the same way it won't be the same experience IMO.
    I'm not saying we go back to the Gen X days, although it was fun.  I'm saying with a new generation coming into the mainstream we should now start seeing games change to cater to that generation.  And personally I see this new generation as being far more interesting which means the games will start to become more interesting.
  • LuidenLuiden Member UncommonPosts: 109
    Nilden said:
    Hell most games can't even be bothered to compete with vanilla Everquest.

    It had 12 classes, now some new games lucky to see 5 or 6.

    Races, starting towns, spell variety, spell numbers, items, number of zones, monster variety, level design, etc etc etc. Even 3D swimmable water (looking at you ESO and FFXIX). I can't believe how lazy they are when it comes to comparing to EQ.

    Old school literally let's you see gamers being charged more for less.

    http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/447954/the-vanilla-everquest-comparison/p1

    I think DAOC had 20 to 30 classes at release, it has something like 40 to 50 now.  This is what I really miss, the diversity in games.  League of Legends is the most popular MOBA of all time, I think that is partially because there is over 80 champions you can play which leads to great diversity and interesting repeating game play.  This is something that all the new MMORPGs screw up big time.

    Also, each class doesn't have to be mature at release or totally awesome with 100x abilities.  Just give each a few abilities (MVP) and let the class grow with the game... this is another mistake MMORPGs make today.
    Vynt
  • Panther2103Panther2103 Edmonds, WAMember RarePosts: 3,538
    Oldschool games have a very different feel than newer games. I'm not saying I prefer that feel but sometimes it is nice to play a game with that sort of feeling. It might have been my age at the time or what I was into, but playing older MMO's always had this feeling of wonder or mystery as I explored worlds. Classes felt a lot more solid and had actual roles back then (in some games). Games had dedicated buffing classes, or insanely large amounts of classes and races. There was a lot less instant gratification, and a lot less instant travel. I love that modern games allow you to do a lot of different things, I'm glad I don't have to sit and grind in one spot for 80 hours straight to gain a level. But sometimes I do miss the tedious nature, I do want something that takes a long time to acquire, that requires a group of people grinding to get it. But more often, I do want to have it faster now. I have more responsibility than I used to, I have a job that takes up quite a bit of my time, and the modern structure for MMO's fits my needs more than the previous one. But if a new game came out that felt like the older games, I would probably support it. Pantheon looks to be something like that, and I'm hoping it turns out good. Same with Camelot Unchained. 
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Nashville, TNMember EpicPosts: 2,799
    Currently playing some WoW Legion content and, I gotta say, there's still a longing for the old school style of dungeon content that existed throughout the world back in the day.  I ran the Eye of Azshara dungeon as part of the quest line, and my group literally did nothing but run through footstomping the content without any real thought other than "what's the next skill in my rotation?" No care was needed nor taken in what or how many enemies were pulled, we just steamrolled it.  It was...  Anti-climactic.

    I'd like to see the old school challenge of general content return.
    Nilden

    image
  • cameltosiscameltosis ipswichMember EpicPosts: 1,672
    Luiden said:
    Flyte27 said:
    Luiden said:
    DMKano said:
    As far as games made for masses - like MMOs - devs go where the money is. 

    Action combat has far bigger audience today - hence the shift.

    But there will always be indie dev studios that are trying to cater to smaller groups - so no worries.

    I think this is partially true, a more correct statement is that devs develop games the kids want to play.  Over the past 10 years those kids have been millennials and the games have glaringly been developed for them, (F2P, buy pretty much anything instantly with real life money, etc) Gen X would have never done this.  When people think back to the glory old days of gaming they are thinking back to a time where the games were developed for Gen X, where you had to earn your rewards and back when there was a journey to the game. 

    The millennial version doesn't have that, it's more about getting to the end game pretty much instantly, buying special mounts and gear and make yourself feel like you have accomplished something.  That's how games are designed today, buy xp boasts to get you to the end, cash shops that let you buy just about anything, advertising that it's 'free' when in actually you are paying far more than a regular sub game would need, only a millennial would fall for this.

    The good news is when are about to leave the dark ages of gaming, the millennials are getting older and the new generation is just coming out of highschool which means we should start seeing more interesting games being developed very soon.  BTW, this new generation is by far, by far more interesting and engaging than millennials are, I'm excited to see how games developed for them turn out as I think those games will be much more interesting to Gen X and even what's left of the Baby Boomers.  

    I am part of gen x and am not willing to say we were better.  I do think things were more exciting and interesting for me, but on the flip side bullying and abuse was almost an accepted norm during the 80s and 90s.  This made for more interesting stories and interaction IMO, but also was unhealthy for people in many ways.  I guess everything has its ups and downs.  Things do change with different generations, but I'm not sure how great it would be to go back to the concepts of that time period even if we could.  Gen X loved to be punished.  We were willing to do unhealthy things to ourselves in the name of fun.  We were taught to tuff things out and disregard pain.  There was a lot less information available to us.  Some of these things are what made the games more fun, but at the same time hurt us over time.  The Millennials are much more connected via social media and have access to a lot better advice when it comes to being healthy.  I think their identity as a generation is more to do with being responsible, polite, and healthy.   Things obviously can change quickly and the next generation may feel it's too restrictive.  I guess we will see what happens.  I think it would be hard for any new generation to go the wild route that we saw in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s as social media always forces people to behave in a certain way in this day and age.  One thing I miss a lot from the 80s and 90s is Halloween.  It's just very different now with how it's approached and is a good example of why MMOs are less fun for me.  There wasn't much information available in those days and Halloween was a really scary event.  Kids would go out on their own, misbehave, watch scary movies, and cause havoc.  There was this magical atmosphere that is lost in this day and age of control.  It was the same way with early MMOs.  They were a magical experience for me at least.  Even if MMOs are recreated the same way it won't be the same experience IMO.
    I'm not saying we go back to the Gen X days, although it was fun.  I'm saying with a new generation coming into the mainstream we should now start seeing games change to cater to that generation.  And personally I see this new generation as being far more interesting which means the games will start to become more interesting.
    I'm curious what you think the difference is between the new generation of gamers and millenials?

    As I understood it, the term "millenial" refers to anyone who came of age in the new millenium, so basically anyone born after 1982ish. The reason for the distinction is that this is the first generation to grow up with mobile phones and the internet and those 2 technologies dramatically changed the way we socialise and perceive the world. 


    What is the difference between a millenial and whatever you want to call this new group? I would have thought things would continue to get worse. I was born in 1985. I got my own PC with internet when I was 15, got my first mobile phone when I was 16. I am old enough to remember a time before these technologies but young enough that these technology have become a "required" part of my existence. 

    Given that these technologies are the cause of our instant gratification culture, I would have assumed that those who have never lived life without them (your new generation) would be in a worse situation than those who had a childhood free of them (like me).
  • ScotScot UKMember RarePosts: 6,522
    edited November 13
    Only skimmed the thread but I could not see one poster who thinks old MMOs are better in every way to new MMOs. All of us who mention the plus side of old school MMOs, will mention certain elements that were better back then. But some how this gets blown up into us thinking that OS is the best school in every way.

    You give one example, the community. Well the community was better, its hard to escape that fact compared to todays MMOs. The fact we mention it a lot does not make it less likely to be true. :)

    Post edited by Scot on
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  • DeadSpockDeadSpock Member UncommonPosts: 153
    Scot said:
    Only skimmed the thread but I could not see one poster who thinks old MMOs are better in every way to new MMOs. All of us who mention the plus side of old school MMOs, will mention certain elements that were better back then. But some how this gets blown up into us thinking that OS is the best school in every way.

    You give one example, the community. Well the community was better, its hard to escape that fact compared to todays MMOs. The fact we mention it a lot does not make it less likely to be true. :)


    See the community matters the most cause devs listen to them and change games to where we old school players don't like them at all. New games now have 0 immersion, solo, dumb and arrows pointing you where to go, level cap in a day or two not about the journey but just end game and all these are community issue.
  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAMember LegendaryPosts: 23,081


    Given that these technologies are the cause of our instant gratification culture, I would have assumed that those who have never lived life without them (your new generation) would be in a worse situation than those who had a childhood free of them (like me).
    It would probably be a huge shock for those who never lived life without them.

    Heck, you were born in 1985 so the idea of computer technology being at least a part of your life is still present.

    I have memories of no cable TV, only a handful of channels, Certainly no atm's, no remote control, long lines at the bank on friday to get money, stores closed Sunday, no video games.

    Being one of the few people on the Subway NOT looking at a phone is pretty funny.

    So yeah, different generations have different expectations. I mean, I suppose I could be the generation who only had radio ...


    Torval



  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAMember EpicPosts: 7,680
    Loke666 said:
    DMKano said:
    As far as games made for masses - like MMOs - devs go where the money is. 

    Action combat has far bigger audience today - hence the shift.

    But there will always be indie dev studios that are trying to cater to smaller groups - so no worries.
    I am not 100% convinced you are right there. There certainly are some newer successful action combat MMOs but they are generally good games and such tend to do fine no matter what combat you use.

    The none action games have at the same time generally dumbed down themselves so much that there is little need for tactics until you reach the endgame and I am not so sure that is smart.

    Trinity and similar mechanics tend to be slower and therefor allow the player to think and plan better but without the need to do just that it is rather pointless. I think they went to far to simplify things and lost a lot of what was fun in their combat.

    Both types can be fun if done right and both can be popular (early Wow was still a huge success for instance). The difference is that action combat actually is evolving while the more tactical version is devolving.

    People have lost a lot of interest in tactical combat ( I am not using the trinity word because there are other possibilities even if it is the usual one) but I think that is the devs fault, not that the broad masses can't like it.

    And no matter what combat system you uses the important factor is how fun it is since you spend a lot of time in combat when you play most MMOs. Just copying and simplify older systems don't cut it anymore and havn't done it for years,

    You aren't convinced.  How about players who love pvp but don't want the world.  An action game keeps them having their pvp fix.  IF that convinces you, then you can see why the devs chase that.
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  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHMember UncommonPosts: 2,658
    Scot said:
    Only skimmed the thread but I could not see one poster who thinks old MMOs are better in every way to new MMOs. All of us who mention the plus side of old school MMOs, will mention certain elements that were better back then. But some how this gets blown up into us thinking that OS is the best school in every way.

    You give one example, the community. Well the community was better, its hard to escape that fact compared to todays MMOs. The fact we mention it a lot does not make it less likely to be true. :)


    I have been thinking for a couple minutes, and I may be the one....I mean sure graphics are better, but I don't even mind UO old school graphics...So while it is nicer, it wouldn't keep me from playing something (if it had everything else).  I do not like instances, lfg tools, arenas, f2p, cash shops, name changes, and b2p (I like subs, it makes it easier to police your games community, f2p does bring more bodies, but more trash and problems along with it.).  Which is a big reason I stopped playing EQ1, it was becoming too instanced.  I mean there may be something that I am not thinking of, but for the most part, no 'innovation' in a mmorpg that I can think of this second, I would really miss, going back to a old school type mmorpg (that's why I am keeping a eye on Pantheon).

    As you can see from my dislike list, I have gone a long time without a mmorpg at times, and Archeage (I am playing now), is what I thought the problems with f2p/cash shop would do to a game.  I have gotten around the p2w, but doing so has made the game more of a job, playing 5 accounts (I use gold to pay for patron on all of them), both in EU/NA.  I would much rather have 1 account, no labor (which gives rise to multiple accounts), and just play a game.
  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Long Island, NYMember RarePosts: 1,053
    edited November 15
    Not sure who this "we" you claim to represent are.

    Here is an idea....stop worrying about what others like. Both you and them can have games you like., they are not mutually exclusive.
    Post edited by TalulaRose on
    waynejr2
  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAMember EpicPosts: 7,680
    I just checked maslow hierarchy of needs for both new and old school.  Neither are there.  Don't worry about what we are playing.

    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • KulharinKulharin Member UncommonPosts: 11
    Yes, we do.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember RarePosts: 27,395
    Nilden said:
    Hell most games can't even be bothered to compete with vanilla Everquest.



    Why would they bother? At its peak, EQ has may be 500k players, which is a pittance compared to something like WoW.


  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember RarePosts: 27,395
    Kulharin said:
    Yes, we do.

    May be you do. I certainly do not. 
  • TillerTiller Member RarePosts: 6,202
    edited November 16
    It wasn't so much the games themselves. but the communities is what we miss...... I made more friends in one game (EQ) than I have in all other games combined.....While the slow play was hated by some, those of us that played from the beginning loved it and talked to all kinds of people and made alot of in game friends....Today most games are solo quest/solo play and you dont need to chat or ask anyone for anything....While the graphics and quality of the games themsleves may be better today, the multiplayer aspect is severely lacking.
    The community you remember is never coming back. Fewer and fewer of the older Gen X people play, and the millennial and post millennial crowd run the show in online games. They like troll, spout random offensive garbage in global chat to see who they can trigger, and generally don't care who they offend which forces most of the rest of us to just block them and everyone out and not talk to anyone. I remember back in the day we had a few in my SWG guild and they didn't mesh will with any of us.

    You used to be able to meet some random player out in the middle of nowhere and group up and work together, strike up a conversation and become friends. These days you either get yelled at for helping like you are trying to kills steal, or they just run off without even a FU after you help them.

    Guilds in most MMOs just aren't the same as they were either, it's too political and people tend to stay in their own little cliches, even within the guild. It's just not the same anymore.
    Post edited by Tiller on
    Gobstopper3D





  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Oxon Hill, MDMember RarePosts: 2,617
    I miss most is having players matter good or bad.  Players being a fixtures in community not just people you bump into once unless your are guilded.  
  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 26,669
    edited November 16
    Sovrath said:


    Given that these technologies are the cause of our instant gratification culture, I would have assumed that those who have never lived life without them (your new generation) would be in a worse situation than those who had a childhood free of them (like me).
    It would probably be a huge shock for those who never lived life without them.

    Heck, you were born in 1985 so the idea of computer technology being at least a part of your life is still present.

    I have memories of no cable TV, only a handful of channels, Certainly no atm's, no remote control, long lines at the bank on friday to get money, stores closed Sunday, no video games.

    Being one of the few people on the Subway NOT looking at a phone is pretty funny.

    So yeah, different generations have different expectations. I mean, I suppose I could be the generation who only had radio ...


    No calculators, I learned to use a slide rule in high school, heck, maybe even an abacus back in elementary school.

    Yet here's a funny thing, we managed to put men on the moon 6 years before I received my first personal calculator as a graduation present, they must of had to row or something.  ;)

    We live in an age of many wonders...

    ;)

    Post edited by Kyleran on
    cameltosisSovrathGobstopper3DCogohi

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