Using RNG for cosmetics

k61977k61977 Pendleton, SCMember RarePosts: 740
People seem to be going crazy because they locked cosmetics behind a RNG lootbox in the cash shop for guild wars 2 mounts.  This is ridiculous in my opinion.  If there was no cash shop there would be no game to play.  I much prefer their cash shop over almost any other game.  Not a single thing in this cash shop is actually need to progress 100% thru the game.  The only thing that can even remotely be said bad about it is how easy it is to change gems to gold and gold to gems, but that is a good thing in my eyes as you can play the game collect gold and never spend a dime for anything in the cash shop due to changing gold to gems.

Now back on topic.  Today Arenanet put mount skins in the cash shop that are random.  While I don't like that they made them random, that is something I can live with because not a single skin does anything that effects gameplay.  Once you get a skin you also will not get that skin again so if you were trying to get one in particular your chance goes up every time.  Sure it would be nice to just go buy the skin you wanted which I am sure they will do in the future at higher prices than they have now, but right now they are running a promotion to bring in funds for the game.  Seems like people forget that gaming is a business first these days.

If this was something that was needed to progress in the game I would be the first to be showing my displeasure at greedy practices of using RNG lootboxes, but when it comes to cosmetic items I could care less.

Comments

  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Cambridge, MAMember UncommonPosts: 1,032
    I am fine with cash shop for cosmetics. The devs need to find an additional money stream and it seems a cash shop cosmetics isn't a bad idea. I like it and don't mind, the random loot box where you don't get duplicates is better than straight chance luck boxes. I have no problems with it, once you put cash shop stuff that changes gameplay, then I agree with you. 

    What about 2 different servers: one server where there is no cash shop use and another server where cash shop use is allowed. 

    Everyone starts on no-cash shop server but if they buy something, it moves them to the cash shop server. Of course, that would be dumb business as most people would start on no cash shop server and be disincentivized from spending. So it'll be a dumb idea. I thought up the idea and debunked it while typing out the idea :). Or you split cash shop into game changing vs just cosmetic. 

    Cryomatrix
  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 26,664
    RNG lootboxes are becoming increasingly unpopular, which  I sympathize with.

    Sell the skins for whatever fair price they want, but stop with the gambling mechanics.


    NildenanemoSovrathGdemami

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  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaMember EpicPosts: 13,108
    Well op,you are forgetting the bigger picture.

    Ask Arena.net and they were at least at the time BRAGGING about their game and how they could deliver an equal without a sub fee.So are you saying Arena.net was full of shit?

    What exactly are you saying when you say there would be "no game?".Are you saying they were using DECEPTIVE marketing,they can't use the business model they bragged about?

    Maybe instead of kissing ass so much,this site should ask Arena.net those very questions,why the change from their promises and why the cash shop?

    To me when someone says NO GAME,it kind of tells me you think the game is not very good so NEEDS to use this business model to survive,good games don't need deceptive practices to survive.
    Gdemami

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • laxielaxie UK - Leamington SpaMember RarePosts: 849
    From day one, GW2 had loot boxes in the form of mini pets. It also had Black Lion Chests - which has a huge pool of weapon/armor skins otherwise unobtainable (and this also includes marginally pay-to-win items).

    So either people feel mount skins are much more crucial to the gameplay (compared to armor/weapons/pets/boosts); or people's perspective has changed recently. Perhaps it's a bit of both.

    I personally love the feeling of opening a loot box. It was something we used to do with my sister. And we also sometimes buy Magic the Gathering boosters and open them together. With this mindset it's a fun experience - you each buy a set amount of boxes, open them and compare them together.

    That said, there are a lot of ethical issues with them, in my opinion. They are one of the most exploitative techniques, forcing people to spend the most. The argument that it's optional (and that people can simply earn in-game currency and never spend), holds very little water if you know anything about marketing psychology. In reality, the whole system is designed to strongly encourage people to spend as much as possible.

    I do agree that it's very good for business. It's also good for you as a non-payer: the more the big spenders pay, the more game for everyone. But it does enable people to wreck their bank balances at the same time - and some people do. RNG microtransactions are more dangerous in that respect, encouraging people to spend more than they were initially willing.

    I personally would be willing to give up the loot box experience, for the sake of making the payment model a safer environment in general. This would possibly mean less income overall, but there should be a moral line in the sand somewhere. If I told you I can double the income of a model, but that 5% of the people would live on the street within a year, would you agree to the model? (Extreme example, but it does illustrate a point nevertheless)

    I think there are better monetization models out there in terms of empowering the community. Loot boxes are designed to prey on the susceptible individuals.
    KyleranGdemami
  • ScotScot UKMember RarePosts: 6,510
    "If there was no cash shop there would be no game to play."

    Have you ever heard of the concept of a subscription?
    GdemamiNilden

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

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  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCMember LegendaryPosts: 10,152
    k61977 said:
    If there was no cash shop there would be no game to play.  
    Preach on brother. Can you say Hallelujah? 

    However did games ever survive without them at the turn of the century? That was just miraculous.



    KyleranNildenGdemami
    Ah, you've been with the professors and they've all liked your looks
    With great lawyers you have discussed lepers and crooks
    You've been through all of F. Scott Fitzgerald's books
    You're very well-read, it's well-known
    But something is happening here and you don't know what it is
    Do you, Mr. Jones?
  • ScotScot UKMember RarePosts: 6,510
    edited November 8
    Iselin said:
    k61977 said:
    If there was no cash shop there would be no game to play.  
    Preach on brother. Can you say Hallelujah? 

    However did games ever survive without them at the turn of the century? That was just miraculous.



    That was before they invented capitalism and gaming ran on charitable donations. ;)
    Post edited by Scot on
    Nilden

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy? :P

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCMember LegendaryPosts: 10,152
    Scot said:
    Iselin said:
    k61977 said:
    If there was no cash shop there would be no game to play.  
    Preach on brother. Can you say Hallelujah? 

    However did games ever survive without them at the turn of the century? That was just miraculous.



    That was before they invented capitalism and gaming ran on charitable donations. ;0
    True that.

    And I feel left out, the capitalist trollol forgot to lol me. Maybe he'll remember later?
    Nilden
    Ah, you've been with the professors and they've all liked your looks
    With great lawyers you have discussed lepers and crooks
    You've been through all of F. Scott Fitzgerald's books
    You're very well-read, it's well-known
    But something is happening here and you don't know what it is
    Do you, Mr. Jones?
  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAMember LegendaryPosts: 23,043
    I don't think they should be random. People know what they want to "look like" or at least what type of mount look they want.

    Either make a way in game where they can work for a particular cosmetic or just allow them to buy it.

    This is done in Black Desert as well. You can purchase a dye box but you don't know exactly what you will get. So if you need a particular version of "gold" so that your character's trim is uniform throughout the costume you are out of luck.

    Now, if one gets one of those packs where you get a whole bunch of perks including "all the dyes available" they will then realize that it really isn't "all the dyes available" and just the main dye pallet.

    It's really rather tedious.



  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 15,968
    sounds like they need to drop the precursor and just make games a literally a slot machine and nothing more.

    anyway, yeah I dont get the appeal personally 
    laxie

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member UncommonPosts: 250
    Scot said:
    "If there was no cash shop there would be no game to play."

    Have you ever heard of the concept of a subscription?
    If only the vast majority of players hadn't bought into other payment models such that subscription is now largely nonviable. But they did. C'est la vie.
  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Long Island, NYMember RarePosts: 1,047
    Easy solution....

    Offer the gambling boxes for those that want the thrill of RNG and offer direct purchase for those that want that specific item.

    But they chose to go with RNG because RNG will net them more money.
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member UncommonPosts: 250
    k61977 said:
    Now back on topic.  Today Arenanet put mount skins in the cash shop that are random.  While I don't like that they made them random, that is something I can live with because not a single skin does anything that effects gameplay.  Once you get a skin you also will not get that skin again so if you were trying to get one in particular your chance goes up every time.  Sure it would be nice to just go buy the skin you wanted which I am sure they will do in the future at higher prices than they have now, but right now they are running a promotion to bring in funds for the game.  Seems like people forget that gaming is a business first these days.

    If I want to buy a cosmetic item it is because I want that particular look. That is the whole point of purchasing them. By making it a random process it runs totally counter to my purpose. Since I suspect this would be generally so, it is no wonder this approach led to complaint.

    They would have been better served to offer some other promotion that didn't run counter to the purpose of product itself, that of achieving a desired look. They would have had much less in the way of complaint and perhaps more in terms of sales.
    IselinGdemamilaxie
  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCMember LegendaryPosts: 10,152
    k61977 said:
    Now back on topic.  Today Arenanet put mount skins in the cash shop that are random.  While I don't like that they made them random, that is something I can live with because not a single skin does anything that effects gameplay.  Once you get a skin you also will not get that skin again so if you were trying to get one in particular your chance goes up every time.  Sure it would be nice to just go buy the skin you wanted which I am sure they will do in the future at higher prices than they have now, but right now they are running a promotion to bring in funds for the game.  Seems like people forget that gaming is a business first these days.

    If I want to buy a cosmetic item it is because I want that particular look. That is the whole point of purchasing them. By making it a random process it runs totally counter to my purpose. Since I suspect this would be generally so, it is no wonder this approach led to complaint.

    They would have been better served to offer some other promotion that didn't run counter to the purpose of product itself, that of achieving a desired look. They would have had much less in the way of complaint and perhaps more in terms of sales.
    I agree except for the "...more in term of sales" part. They are essentially forcing you to get all skins even if you only want the one you want unless you get lucky and get it with just a couple of crates. That's the whole point of loot crates.

    They work just like any booth for any game at a fair: they sell you on the idea that for just $1 you could theoretically get that 6-foot tall teddy bear (that you then have to lug around with you lol) but the odds are carefully manipulated so that in actual fact you'll spend $100 bucks and even then you may not get it.
    Gdemami
    Ah, you've been with the professors and they've all liked your looks
    With great lawyers you have discussed lepers and crooks
    You've been through all of F. Scott Fitzgerald's books
    You're very well-read, it's well-known
    But something is happening here and you don't know what it is
    Do you, Mr. Jones?
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