to the editor Bill Murphy

ulrick1965ulrick1965 Member UncommonPosts: 9
I have been a frequent visitor for years.   MMORP.COM posts articles and discussions about the type of games that I like to play.  Usually I will visit once or more times a day to check out the articles.  I have an account because of some key give away in the past, but have rarely felt the need to post.  After reading your "review" and subsequent comments in http://www.mmorpg.com/columns/wolfenstein-ii-the-new-colossus-review-an-important-game-1000012179

I must end my usage of this site and will have to find a site that better tends to the business of "games" rather than spewing their hate and liberal commentary in their gaming articles.  While I fully expect this post to be deleted and or ridiculed.  I will tell you what I think of your indicated belief that anyone who thinks that whites and white males in particular get the short end of the stick in today's America are Nazi's. 

I am a white male and my opinion is that today's liberals love to point to any opinion that is not theirs and compare it to National Socialism.  I am certain that someone needs to represent white people and say it is okay to be white.  Sad to think that to you that means Nazi.  I also find it sad that you will be training your children to be ashamed of being white and how everyone else deserves good things more than them.  You never ever hear a liberal talk about equality or how someone should earn what they have. Yes, I do think that everyone should condemn what the Nazis did.  White power does not signify National Socialism or that someone is a Nazi you frigging asshat! 

How you can so easily throw away your professional conduct as the editor of this site I don't understand.  While my respect certainly meant nothing to you before or after this post, you certainly lost it.  Your article and comments lead me to think that you are following current liberal doctrine which seems to be "if they don't agree with us then they are Nazi's and need to die."  Do you have a hit list?  Perhaps you should post it.

I am perfectly fine ignoring liberal commentary, but I won't put up with it in what should have remained a "neutral" website.   You really should have left your liberal vitriol and hate at the door before going to work.

EldurianrlhegiraKootur
«1

Comments

  • FlemFlem BrisbaneMember UncommonPosts: 2,844
    KInda gotta agree with you, he took it too far by throwing in his own political view. He obviously doesn't know the sites own code of conduct, was a time when people used to get banned for just saying the word "Politics". Now the staff can get away with it.  

    Religion and Politics
    • MMORPG.com is a site to discuss massively multiplayer online roleplay gaming. While users are encouraged and permitted to use our Off-Topic forum to discuss real life and non-MMORPG gaming, threads concerning sensitive subjects such as religion, politics, or ethics are forbidden.


    EldurianrlhegiraKootur
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 1,848
    edited October 30
    Oh no. The users will still get banned. There is just a double standard.

    It's apparently perfectly fine for @BillMurphy to praise the game for pretending like modern left-wing protesters who are out burning cars, looting businesses, physically assaulting people and shutting down college speeches every day are dealing with any issues on the level of death camps, call everyone who disagrees a "piece of shit", and then lock down any ability for people to respond.

    Just to clue you in, it is very possible for people to hate white supremacists and the extremist tactics of many in ANTIFA / BLM. It's not a one or the other thing. We don't have to support any crazies who use violence to spread their political message.

    If you want a discussion on this subject, wave aside your own rule and lets have a discussion. Not a one sided "I tell you my opinion and you shut up or get banned."
    Post edited by Eldurian on
    Kootur
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Nashville, TNMember EpicPosts: 2,716
    Eldurian said:
    Oh no. The users will still get banned. There is just a double standard.

    It's apparently perfectly fine for @BillMurphy to praise the game for pretending like modern left-wing protesters who are out burning cars, looting businesses, physically assaulting people and shutting down college speeches every day are dealing with any issues on the level of death camps, call everyone who disagrees a "piece of shit", and then lock down any ability for people to respond.

    Just to clue you in, it is very possible for people to hate white supremacists and the extremist tactics of many in ANTIFA / BLM. It's not a one or the other thing. We don't have to support any crazies who use violence to spread their political message.

    If you want a discussion on this subject, wave aside your own rule and lets have a discussion. Not a one sided "I tell you my opinion and you shut up or get banned."
    If you think he was talking to you when he calls folks who sympathize with white supremacists pieces of shit, you're either completely misreading his rather obvious message, or you're not even aware of your true opinion of the situation.

    image
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Nashville, TNMember EpicPosts: 2,716
    edited October 31
    I have been a frequent visitor for years.   MMORP.COM posts articles and discussions about the type of games that I like to play.  Usually I will visit once or more times a day to check out the articles.  I have an account because of some key give away in the past, but have rarely felt the need to post.  After reading your "review" and subsequent comments in http://www.mmorpg.com/columns/wolfenstein-ii-the-new-colossus-review-an-important-game-1000012179

    I must end my usage of this site and will have to find a site that better tends to the business of "games" rather than spewing their hate and liberal commentary in their gaming articles.  While I fully expect this post to be deleted and or ridiculed.  I will tell you what I think of your indicated belief that anyone who thinks that whites and white males in particular get the short end of the stick in today's America are Nazi's. 

    I am a white male and my opinion is that today's liberals love to point to any opinion that is not theirs and compare it to National Socialism.  I am certain that someone needs to represent white people and say it is okay to be white.  Sad to think that to you that means Nazi.  I also find it sad that you will be training your children to be ashamed of being white and how everyone else deserves good things more than them.  You never ever hear a liberal talk about equality or how someone should earn what they have. Yes, I do think that everyone should condemn what the Nazis did.  White power does not signify National Socialism or that someone is a Nazi you frigging asshat! 

    How you can so easily throw away your professional conduct as the editor of this site I don't understand.  While my respect certainly meant nothing to you before or after this post, you certainly lost it.  Your article and comments lead me to think that you are following current liberal doctrine which seems to be "if they don't agree with us then they are Nazi's and need to die."  Do you have a hit list?  Perhaps you should post it.

    I am perfectly fine ignoring liberal commentary, but I won't put up with it in what should have remained a "neutral" website.   You really should have left your liberal vitriol and hate at the door before going to work.

    You completely missed his point.  Either out of a lack of comprehension or a willful ignorance in an attempt to be offended, I know not.  But I do know that your analysis of "current liberal doctrine" is quite wrong, specifically as applied by Bill in his review.
    Post edited by MadFrenchie on
    waynejr2

    image
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 1,848
    @MadFrenchie

    He said we're going to love this game if we aren't a "total piece of shit."

    He gives one example of the political commentary in modern times. The comment starts out with the characters talking about how the terrorists want to use violence just because they disagree with their political views. That's a nod at the entire right wing right now. Pretty much all of us are disgusted at the riots and the looting and the censoring of free speech surrounding movements like BLM and Antifa. Pretty much all of us are tired of anyone who disagrees with their views being labeled a "fascist", "bigot", "racist" etc.

    Then it switches over to the characters talking about how they are going to go murder people in death squads to point out hypocrisy and justify the violence of the opposition.

    So it essentially takes the entire right wing and anyone opposed to radical, violent, hateful leftwing groups that are out there burning down their own towns, and then portrays them all as Nazis who want to kill you all.

    Anyone who leans right right now knows that you don't have to be a facist, racist, or bigot for many on the left to see you that way. You just have to be right wing. And that's why this kind of commentary is pissing us off so much. We're all ok with Nazis being killed. Just not every group currently being called a fascist of a nazi. Because to many on the left anyone who didn't support Hillary or Bernie is a fascist.

    I have a solid split of political views on my Facebook. Every single right wing person on my wall who is an active poster on the subject of politics condemned the white supremacist marches, without exception. A few of the left wing posters on my wall have condemned ANTIFA, BLM, and other violent leftwing rioters when they go out and start burning crap every time they are upset. Most of them have defended those groups.

    It's a false equivalence that both sides have a problem with violence. No. Not really. It's really fairly one sided.
    Kootur
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Nashville, TNMember EpicPosts: 2,716
    edited October 31
    What are you talking about, exactly?  Where does Bill mention he thinks the violence of either group today is justified?  I must've missed that, or you're inferring something that isn't there.  Quit trying to muddy the waters because you want to be offended.

    He said you're going to love it unless you disdain the connection it makes between original Nazis and the normalization and sympathizing of and with current white supremacists groups.  Why?  Because it's a great fucking FPS, and the only reason he sees anyone could reasonably disagree is because they're averse to the underlying theme being expressed.  That's more commentary on the game's quality than anything else, why are you attempting to twist that message?

    If you sympathize with white supremacists, you feel an affinity or unity for, or think like that group.  Now, don't fly off the handle at me: that's Merriam-Webster's definition.  I certainly don't sympathize with that group.  As a white man brought up in the state that spawned Nathaniel Bedford Forrest, I don't feel affinity for white supremacists, nor do I think like them.  Bill's saying that, if you do, you may feel offended by the game's message so much that you cannot enjoy the title for what it is: a quality FPS and a great addition to the Wolfenstein franchise.  That's it.  Nobody said you had to be a fan of BLM of ANTIFA violence to enjoy the game.  That's, quite frankly, irrelevant.  The game uses the traditional setpiece to make a statement about current day political movements that echo the same sentiments.  Quit projecting onto it and Bill's statement.  Take them for what they are: a condemnation of white supremacist movements.  Not what they aren't: a wholesale endorsement of BLM/ANTIFA violence.
    Post edited by MadFrenchie on
    waynejr2

    image
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 15,968
    edited October 31
    I dont understand the OP.

    'Either start writing opinion that do not reflect how you (bill) view the world or else I will leave'?

    dont leave mad...just leave
    Post edited by SEANMCAD on

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 1,848
    edited October 31
    @MadFrenchie

    "There’s a fantastic exchange in a level where two Nazi soldiers talk about how the 'terrorists' like BJ and the Resistance are too violent and that violence begets violence. They say that they just have a different point of view and there’s nothing wrong with that… then they start talking about their next Death Squad assignment and how they hope they get to be on it together so they can kill. It’s darkly hilarious, and a great tongue in cheek example of how The New Colossus deals with modern-day issues in a game set in the 1960s."

    Read more at http://www.mmorpg.com/columns/wolfenstein-ii-the-new-colossus-review-an-important-game-1000012179#8ojS2KdibF8vSTEQ.99

    If you don't see what I'm talking about you are quite clearly just giving him a pass because you happen to agree with his politics.

    This entire exchange is quite obviously likening the game's protagonists to violent leftwing movements and then attempting to justify them. How could you interperet that exchange any other way when Bill is straight up saying:

    "A great tongue in cheek example of how The New Colossus deals with modern-day issues in a game set in the 1960s."

    If he isn't justifying violence by BLM and ANTIFA then what "modern-day issues" is he referring to? With a statement like: 

    "There’s a fantastic exchange in a level where two Nazi soldiers talk about how the 'terrorists' like BJ and the Resistance are too violent and that violence begets violence. They say that they just have a different point of view and there’s nothing wrong with that."

    Please give us your alternative interpretation because this seems pretty cut and dry to me.
    Post edited by Eldurian on
    Kootur
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Nashville, TNMember EpicPosts: 2,716
    edited October 31
    Lol dude, it's Wolfenstein, a game about murdering Nazis.  Wtf does BLM have to do with it?  ANTIFA, MAYBE, but seeing as how Wolfenstein predates the rise of that group, you're literally trying to misrepresent a very common theme among WWII shooters as support for a group that formed after these shooter franchises were created.

    The modern-day issues cited are white supremacist groups that echo the sentiments of Nazis: that any race other than the white race is inferior.  Even a middle school kid could make that direct connection.  Quit acting like it's some kind of malicious jump that Bill's making there.  It also isn't a justification of violence by an opposition group: do you really fucking think a shooter would be successful if you spent your time standing around with a picket sign?  Dude, you're doing mental gymnastics to, again, try and indict Bill on a statement he never made and keep up your "offended" charade.

    The last statement is a racist group trying to justify their racism by normalizing it as mere, harmless difference of opinion.  Except, being fucking NAZIS (literal fucking Nazis), their idea of normal is murdering folks who are Jewish and/or any other "inferior" race that becomes bothersome to them.  That's what Nazis were.  It's a game about killing Nazis.  The developer makes the connection that white supremacist groups maintain the same mindset on race that Nazis do (read: an objectively fucking despicable mindset), and they try to normalize it as merely a harmless opinion.  You're trying to act as if that bit of political commentary is a wholesale endorsement of anti-right wing violence when it's not; it's a clever political statement set against a backdrop of murdering Nazis, which is what those games have always been about.  There's no endorsement there of anything other than playing a violent, Nazi-murdering FPS game and a condemnation of groups whose philosophy echoes that of those groups.  Quit conjuring a boogieman that isn't real to try and take issue with.
    Post edited by MadFrenchie on

    image
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 1,848
    edited October 31
    @TheMadFrenchie

    You're ignoring the issue I've presented to you and broadening the topic and in order to confuse the debate.

    "There’s a fantastic exchange in a level where two Nazi soldiers talk about how the 'terrorists' like BJ and the Resistance are too violent and that violence begets violence. They say that they just have a different point of view and there’s nothing wrong with that."

    "A great tongue in cheek example of how The New Colossus deals with modern-day issues in a game set in the 1960s."

    I'm not talking about Wolfenstien as a whole. I don't find the premise of the game offensive in any way. I'm talking about that specific quote.

    Spin it and ignore it however you want. It's a justification of left wing violence. Not just an attack against Nazis or white supremacists. An attack against anyone who feel extreme leftists are not justified in using violence to achieve their means. It's not the white supremacists using rhetoric like "violence begets violence" these days. It's prettymuch everyone on the right but the crazies and a considerable number of moderates and even leftists.

    Pretty much the only people disagreeing with that statement are BLM / ANTIFA / The white supremacist who are out screaming "Blood and soil!" / Running people down with cars, and supporters of those groups.
    Post edited by Eldurian on
    Kootur
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Nashville, TNMember EpicPosts: 2,716
    edited November 1
    Eldurian said:
    @TheMadFrenchie

    You're ignoring the issue I've presented to you and broadening the topic and in order to confuse the debate.

    "There’s a fantastic exchange in a level where two Nazi soldiers talk about how the 'terrorists' like BJ and the Resistance are too violent and that violence begets violence. They say that they just have a different point of view and there’s nothing wrong with that."

    "A great tongue in cheek example of how The New Colossus deals with modern-day issues in a game set in the 1960s."

    I'm not talking about Wolfenstien as a whole. I don't find the premise of the game offensive in any way. I'm talking about that specific quote.

    Spin it and ignore it however you want. It's a justification of left wing violence. Not just an attack against Nazis or white supremacists. An attack against anyone who feel extreme leftists are not justified in using violence to achieve their means. It's not the white supremacists using rhetoric like "violence begets violence" these days. It's prettymuch everyone on the right but the crazies and a considerable number of moderates and even leftists.

    Pretty much the only people disagreeing with that statement are BLM / ANTIFA / The white supremacist who are out screaming "Blood and soil!" / Running people down with cars, and supporters of those groups.
    He puts terrorists in single quotation marks because, from what I understand, the soldiers voice lines in the game refer to BJ as terrorists.  But obviously, considering they're a resistance to what is absolutely the antagonistic entity of the series, the player is not meant to see BJ as a terrorist in the traditional sense.  That's, again, no friggin' endorsement or justification of left wing violence in real, modern America.  You're projecting your own predispositions and, I daresay prejudices, on it.  It's quite inane.  It's also quite obvious by your quote implying that only the right is spreading the message that violence begets violence.  It's simply not true, and it's quite strange that someone who I've seen be quite reasonable in other threads adheres to such a notion.  Quite strange, and slightly alarming.

    One may support the underlying idea of BLM and ANTIFA without endorsing violent acts.  You don't seem to acknowledge this.  The underlying idea that "black lives matter" and that "fascism is bad" aren't, in and of themselves, dangerous or objectively bad worldviews.  The idea that "all other races are inferior to the white race" certainly is.  None of that means that I, or anyone else who supports the general message of black lives matter or anti-fascism, support violence in the name of those groups.  That...  Should be quite obvious.
    Post edited by MadFrenchie on

    image
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 1,848
    edited November 1
    Actually I did say that moderates and some more reasonable left wingers support that idea:

    "It's prettymuch everyone on the right but the crazies, and a considerable number of moderates and even leftists."

    Translation, there are three groups spreading this message:

    Everyone on the right but the crazies.
    And the moderates.
    And a considerable number of leftists.

    That's who I'm saying believe that violence begets violence. It's actually (beyond being a quote from the bible) a Martin Luther King quote from back in the day when he was condemning civil rights protesters who act the way BLM acts today.

    But yes I see many leftists that I actually know personally defending the rioters and protesters and the way BLM is acting including the violence. I see many leftists that I personally know who will not admit that BLM and ANTIFA have been doing anything wrong. The same people who said "If you voted for Trump you need to tell your minority friends why you hate them." Yeah literally at least 3 of my friends posted variations on that one. I have not see anyone from any party that I know personally say "You know, I think those white supremacists have a point." 

    So when I see someone attacking the point "violence begets violence", a point made by the moderates, not the white supremacists, I see it exactly for what it is. A glorification of left wing extremism and the people doing this shit. Not just an attack on hate groups.
    Post edited by Eldurian on
    Kootur
  • KooturKootur Lynchburg, VAMember UncommonPosts: 190
    I have been a frequent visitor for years.   MMORP.COM posts articles and discussions about the type of games that I like to play.  Usually I will visit once or more times a day to check out the articles.  I have an account because of some key give away in the past, but have rarely felt the need to post.  After reading your "review" and subsequent comments in http://www.mmorpg.com/columns/wolfenstein-ii-the-new-colossus-review-an-important-game-1000012179

    I must end my usage of this site and will have to find a site that better tends to the business of "games" rather than spewing their hate and liberal commentary in their gaming articles.  While I fully expect this post to be deleted and or ridiculed.  I will tell you what I think of your indicated belief that anyone who thinks that whites and white males in particular get the short end of the stick in today's America are Nazi's. 

    I am a white male and my opinion is that today's liberals love to point to any opinion that is not theirs and compare it to National Socialism.  I am certain that someone needs to represent white people and say it is okay to be white.  Sad to think that to you that means Nazi.  I also find it sad that you will be training your children to be ashamed of being white and how everyone else deserves good things more than them.  You never ever hear a liberal talk about equality or how someone should earn what they have. Yes, I do think that everyone should condemn what the Nazis did.  White power does not signify National Socialism or that someone is a Nazi you frigging asshat! 

    How you can so easily throw away your professional conduct as the editor of this site I don't understand.  While my respect certainly meant nothing to you before or after this post, you certainly lost it.  Your article and comments lead me to think that you are following current liberal doctrine which seems to be "if they don't agree with us then they are Nazi's and need to die."  Do you have a hit list?  Perhaps you should post it.

    I am perfectly fine ignoring liberal commentary, but I won't put up with it in what should have remained a "neutral" website.   You really should have left your liberal vitriol and hate at the door before going to work.

    Yeah I didn't care for that review either. I don't like wolfenstein 2 because it's another boring single-player only shooter. That doesn't make me a nazi.
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 15,968
    edited November 1
    The problem with this thread is that at its core its about suppression of thought.

    If White Supremacist are upset about not being allowed to speak (which I think is a ligament complaint) they cant gain traction on that by indirectly suggesting others should suppress what they say despite believing in something different. regardless of the topic

    Post edited by SEANMCAD on

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Nashville, TNMember EpicPosts: 2,716
    Eldurian said:
    Actually I did say that moderates and some more reasonable left wingers support that idea:

    "It's prettymuch everyone on the right but the crazies, and a considerable number of moderates and even leftists."

    Translation, there are three groups spreading this message:

    Everyone on the right but the crazies.
    And the moderates.
    And a considerable number of leftists.

    That's who I'm saying believe that violence begets violence. It's actually (beyond being a quote from the bible) a Martin Luther King quote from back in the day when he was condemning civil rights protesters who act the way BLM acts today.

    But yes I see many leftists that I actually know personally defending the rioters and protesters and the way BLM is acting including the violence. I see many leftists that I personally know who will not admit that BLM and ANTIFA have been doing anything wrong. The same people who said "If you voted for Trump you need to tell your minority friends why you hate them." Yeah literally at least 3 of my friends posted variations on that one. I have not see anyone from any party that I know personally say "You know, I think those white supremacists have a point." 

    So when I see someone attacking the point "violence begets violence", a point made by the moderates, not the white supremacists, I see it exactly for what it is. A glorification of left wing extremism and the people doing this shit. Not just an attack on hate groups.
    Only, it's not.  It's a fucking Nazi soldier attempting to assert this right before high-fiving his Nazi buddy about going to murder some folks in the name of Nazism.  My dude, seriously, quit ignoring obvious context to attempt to be offended.

    image
  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Cambridge, MAMember UncommonPosts: 1,032
    I think part of what the reviewer was trying to convey. 

    1) An interesting discussion of how the two nazis say, man those BJ/Resistances are violent, and then go on and say, I hope to be on a death squad assignment with you. It is pointing out how the narrative shows how humans are so easy to not recognize their own actions and how others may even view them.  It is hypocrisy at its finest. It's like saying, "those people are so violent, why do they have to be so violent, I hope I can be on the rape squad sent to their house. "

    2) I think when he says white power = he is referring specifically to the Nazi agenda. He is not equating white people to the Nazi agenda. He is not labeling all whites as nazis or putting in any other innuendo other than being specific with nazi agenda. 

    Eldurian said this"
    It's apparently perfectly fine for @BillMurphy to praise the game for pretending like modern left-wing protesters who are out burning cars, looting businesses, physically assaulting people and shutting down college speeches every day are dealing with any issues on the level of death camps, call everyone who disagrees a "piece of shit", and then lock down any ability for people to respond
    Read more at http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/469183/to-the-editor-bill-murphy#eFi9hLEkGty9PtYQ.99

    That is called a strawman argument. You misinterpreted what the editor said and then attacked him for that misinterpretation. I thought it was pretty clear that he was referring to white power . He should have specified more and made it clear he was talking about white supremacist (nazi) agenda though.  

    There are groups of extremists, i'll call them, that try to equate being white with being bad but they are just fools and idiots. I personally think that extremist thinking is a mental disorder. 

    My definition of extremists = those who have extreme or radical, oftentimes, nonsensical thoughts. It has nothing to do with categories or labels. Any person can be extremist in any issue. You can have liberal/conservative/scientific/any type of extremist. No group has a monopoly on extremists. 

    Also:

    Eldurian and Ulrick, do you guys post on Breitbart? 

    Cryomatrix
    MadFrenchie
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 1,848
    edited November 2
    @MadFrenchie @Cryomatrix

    met·a·phor
    ˈmedəˌfôr,ˈmedəˌfər/
    noun
    1. a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable.

    "There’s a fantastic exchange in a level where two Nazi soldiers talk about how the 'terrorists' like BJ and the Resistance are too violent and that violence begets violence...

    ...A great tongue in cheek example of how The New Colossus deals with modern-day issues in a game set in the 1960s." - Bill Murphy, 2017

    The Nazi's saying "violence begets violence" is a metaphor for those who are saying those things to modern left wing extremist groups. As said before. That's not the supremacists saying it, it's the moderates.

    "Only, it's not.  It's a fucking Nazi soldier attempting to assert this right before high-fiving his Nazi buddy about going to murder some folks in the name of Nazism.  My dude, seriously, quit ignoring obvious context to attempt to be offended."

    Quit intentionally ignoring the fact he said:

    "A great tongue in cheek example of how The New Colossus deals with modern-day issues in a game set in the 1960s."

    If he isn't bashing moderates and those who criticize ANTIFA, then what "modern-day issue" is this a metaphor for?

    You are being intentionally dense here. And by that I mean you are smart enough to figure this out, you are just willfully choosing not to.

    There is a reason he picked out that specific quote and isn't because there are white supremacists or Nazis. That's the entire game. Why do you think he focused in on this one particular exchange out of all the content in the game?

    Perhaps because it's aimed at his friends and families denouncing BLM/ANTIFA on his Facebook wall. And not just swastika wearing gestapos. 

    Your bud Murphy is in favor of this, as are many others on the left. I mean, if they weren't in favor of it, they wouldn't be doing it. Stop covering for them and face up to the facts.
    Post edited by Eldurian on
    Kootur
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 1,848
    edited November 2
    I am perfectly fine with @BillMurphy expressing his opinion as long as I am free to express my opinion, that his opinion is crap, and that he supports a hateful, violent ideology that goes far beyond bashing actual white supremacists. Unless the Starbucks they are destroying in that video while they are encouraged on by the cheers of their fellow rioters, is a haven for nazis and white supremacists.

    Unlike his buddies I won't even mace him, destroy local businesses, or shut down my college campus to prevent him from voicing his opinion.
    Post edited by Eldurian on
    Kootur
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 15,968
    edited November 2
    Eldurian said:
    I am perfectly fine with @BillMurphy expressing his opinion as long as I am free to express my opinion, that his opinion is crap, and that he supports a hateful, violent ideology that goes far beyond bashing actual white supremacists. Unless the Starbucks they are destroying in that video while they are encouraged on by the cheers of their fellow rioters, is a haven for nazis and white supremacists.

    Unlike his buddies I won't even mace him, destroy local businesses, or shut down my college campus to prevent him from voicing his opinion.
    so there seems to be some confusion here.

    first off free speech that white supremacists want so badly would not protect one from 'hateful, violent ideology bashing' language. The principle would suggest (as a baseline) that such speech would be allowed, then determine exceptions. Not as a default that it should not be allowed.

    second off, did you ever imagine a time in your life in which in the united states of american a group called 'anti-facists' who are actually against very literally people who literally call themselves facists, would be a group to frown on? I think the russians are behind all this mind controlling propagada
    Post edited by SEANMCAD on

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Nashville, TNMember EpicPosts: 2,716
    edited November 2
    No, he isn't in favor of friggin rioting.  Your inability to discern anything from Bill's review but that shows an alarming "us vs. them" mentality that does not reflect reality and is counterproductive in general.

    It's not a friggin' metaphor for people who are saying those things to left-wing extremists.  It's an example of how white supremacists and sympathizers attempt to normalize those views, citing that they're just trying to innocently present an alternative perspective, when we know it's really not a defensible perspective and it's not innocent.


    It alludes to how Trump's presidency has helped to normalize these things in our current day society (very fine people, right?) and how a belief that others are inferior solely based on race is a dangerous, erroneous, and disgusting viewpoint to hold.  It shouldn't be something any respectable society accepts within its ranks.  The game alludes to how many in the current political movements behind our dear President is content with those viewpoints being normalized, or at the very least attempts to deflect any attempts to point out it's not okay (read: your arguments here) by attempting to qualify it by citing extremist groups on the other side.

    Nobody said that's a support of extremist groups on either side.  Only, the idea behind ANTIFA and BLM, the original core ideology, not the despicable actions taken by members of those groups, aren't wholesale despicable, outdated, and unsupported by anyone with a modicum of knowledge about society.

    Stop acting like anti-fascism and anti-white supremacy and the idea that social injustice against minorities is wrong is the same level of decency or normal as "white people are supreme because we're white." It isn't. 
    Post edited by MadFrenchie on

    image
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 1,848
    edited November 2
    I can call my group whatever I want. I can call my enemies whatever I want. The vast minority of people who ANTIFA support violent opposition to are actually fascists. 

    For instance I personally am a Libertarian. I support scaling back government power to fulfil only it's minimal duties (The preservation of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.) I am anti war, anti war on drugs, and pro-gay marriage. I also, didn't vote for Trump because he was too big government for me.

    I was however, happy that he beat Hillary in the general election because I feel she would have been worse, am very against the idea of socialism / government handouts etc. And I think Milo and Ben Sharpio say a lot of things that make a lot of sense. (That's not a wholesale endorsement of everything they have ever said, just a general observation that many of the points they make are good.)

    Many ANTIFA would call me a fascist. Despite the fact libertarianism is pretty much the polar opposite of fascism. They would probably riot if I wanted to speak at their college campus.

    That's why we hate groups like ANTIFA. Because you don't need to be a fascist to be labeled as one.
    Post edited by Eldurian on
    Kootur
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 1,848
    edited November 2

    It's not a friggin' metaphor for people who are saying those things to left-wing extremists.  It's an example of how white supremacists and sympathizers attempt to normalize those views, citing that they're just trying to innocently present an alternative perspective, when we know it's really not a defensible perspective and it's not innocent.
    Ah. It's just straight horse crap then. Like I said. Nobody I personally know has defended white supremacists on Facebook.

    Around the time of the rioting there were two general opinions I saw posted over and over.

    "White supremacists suck. So do the left wing rioters." (Right wing and moderate friends)

    "ANTIFA and BLM did nothing wrong. It's all the fault of the white supremacists." (Hard left wingers)

    White supremacists are a small minority, primarily centered around the south, that have universally been rejected by pretty much everyone. Violent left wing riots have happened all across the nation, starting with BLM way before Trump was elected, and have apologists everywhere.

    This is most evident that when Trump came out and condemned violence and hatred on "many sides" that it was an actual controversy that pissed many on the left off. One of my friends posted "Reject the lie of many sides!" The rest of us were like. Yeah.... that comment was pretty on point.

    Who is radicalizing/polarizing the country again?
    Post edited by Eldurian on
    Kootur
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 15,968
    Eldurian said:
    I can call my group whatever I want. I can call my enemies whatever I want. The vast minority of people who ANTIFA support violent opposition to are actually fascists. 

    For instance I personally am a Libertarian. I support scaling back government power to fulfil only it's minimal duties (The preservation of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.) I am anti war, anti war on drugs, and pro-gay marriage. I also, didn't vote for Trump because he was too big government for me.

    I was however, happy that he beat Hillary in the general election because I feel she would have been worse, am very against the idea of socialism / government handouts etc. And I think Milo and Ben Sharpio say a lot of things that make a lot of sense. (That's not a wholesale endorsement of everything they have ever said, just a general observation that many of the points they make are good.)

    Many ANTIFA would call me a fascist. Despite the fact libertarianism is pretty much the polar opposite of fascism. They would probably riot if I wanted to speak at their college campus.

    That's why we hate groups like ANTIFA. Because you don't need to be a fascist to be labeled as one.
    here is the problem with your entire theory.

    the people they are against are people who CALL THEMSELVES FASCISTS.

    It started with that protest where the lady was killed, many of those protesters literally called themselves fascists.

    so yeah, I think it takes amazing propaganda to get a large % of your population in the United States to be outraged about people being against people who literally call themselves facists.

    but that is where we are now

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 1,848
    edited November 2
    @SEANMCAD - So the owner of that Starbucks called themselves a fascist?

    I don't care why they claim they are out rioting and hurting people. I care that they are. And the vast majority of the people they are calling fascists, who's businesses they are burning down etc. are not fascists. 

    ANTIFA is not Anti-Fascist. ANTIFA is anti-everything-right-wing-and-some-stuff-that-isn't.
    Post edited by Eldurian on
    Kootur
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 15,968
    edited November 2
    Eldurian said:
    @SEANMCAD - So the owner of that Starbucks called themselves a fascist?
    I dont know, maybe but that was not who I was talking about.

    A photo of some people throwing something into Starbucks doesnt mean much. maybe they were just exercising.


    but again, where we are today is that being against facism, being against white supremacy is a bad thing. ok i got it, lets see how that plays out

    what I dont understand is why white racists are so offended by being called the very thing they are proud of being. very odd
    Post edited by SEANMCAD on

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

This discussion has been closed.