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All you MMO newbs were warned about F2P. Yet you supported it.

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  • GolelornGolelorn Member RarePosts: 1,395
    JeroKane said:
    DMKano said:
    OP - just because there is a patent now - it doesn't mean that this as not been going on for years already.




    Yup. What this patent describes has been going on in pretty much every mobile game on the market, not to mention that pretty much any Asian developed MMO always worked like that as well. Pay up or fail!

    At least Activision isn't (aren't able to) hiding it anymore lol.
    I don't think you know what a patent means.
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 5,041
    Doom!! Doooooom!!

    Are we done now?

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    Phaserlight
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,600
    I ended up playing cash shop games because there isn't much choice.  Almost all the mmorpg on the market have cash shop.
  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 3,338
    The reason this practice is booming is not because of them newbs who didn't heed your warning. It is because of the whales who didn't care, and now they are even happier. 
    KyleranErich-ZannTheHavokCogohi
    Constantine, The Console Poster

    • "One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    madazz said:
    EA/Activision will now be setting you up in game to fail, or spend. Long gone are the competitive days. They have a new patent that will put you with people with very strong purchased items so that you fail and want to purchase it yourself. Their hope is you join, get raped. Buy a weapon to compete, do awesome against another person that was in the same situation as you previously, then group you yet again with someone who has stronger purchased in game items. Thus making you want to make another purchase.

    I hope you are all happy! Lots of us warned you! Good luck in your "competitive" games going forward. Like F2P, you guys will support it and it will spread to other devs. 

    I hope this leads to some really high end and excellent single player games.

    I play mostly pve games ... and if they get whales to subsidize development of single player games, so much the better.


  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    madazz said:
    EA/Activision will now be setting you up in game to fail, or spend. Long gone are the competitive days. They have a new patent that will put you with people with very strong purchased items so that you fail and want to purchase it yourself. Their hope is you join, get raped. Buy a weapon to compete, do awesome against another person that was in the same situation as you previously, then group you yet again with someone who has stronger purchased in game items. Thus making you want to make another purchase.

    I hope you are all happy! Lots of us warned you! Good luck in your "competitive" games going forward. Like F2P, you guys will support it and it will spread to other devs. 

    I hope this leads to some really high end and excellent single player games.


    This is another perceptual issue. You're assuming that someone who is really good at "Game X" is unable to compete due to not spending money. I don't think there's evidence to support this. In fact, my own experience is that unless you sell me a weapon that auto-aims and shoots someone from across the map, I can't realistically compete in a competitive game. 

    Also, you're making assumptions about the use and/or implementation of a piece of technology that is, apparently, not in games yet. In reality it could already be in games, which would make your point moot. 

    Also, what if they match you against someone who has this weapon and you destroy them? That would, theoretically, make you swear off buying anything at all. 

    I think that one of the most substantial observations is that people seem to believe that with a better weapon, item, mod, they will somehow be better, when it reality in order to actually be better you need to survive long enough to actually shoot that weapon. I think it's an interesting observation, though. Maybe people just need to come to terms with the fact that they suck.
    Gdemami

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
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    ----------------

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    madazz said:
    EA/Activision will now be setting you up in game to fail, or spend. Long gone are the competitive days. They have a new patent that will put you with people with very strong purchased items so that you fail and want to purchase it yourself. Their hope is you join, get raped. Buy a weapon to compete, do awesome against another person that was in the same situation as you previously, then group you yet again with someone who has stronger purchased in game items. Thus making you want to make another purchase.

    I hope you are all happy! Lots of us warned you! Good luck in your "competitive" games going forward. Like F2P, you guys will support it and it will spread to other devs. 

    I hope this leads to some really high end and excellent single player games.
    and yet again I need to remind people, the best of the indie games dont do any of this
    Gdemami

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,671
    This has never been a new thing and I'm completely fine with f2p practices, even some b2p practices. Where it irks me is p2p games, but that's risk when you allow it in some and not all.
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Albatroes said:
    This has never been a new thing and I'm completely fine with f2p practices, even some b2p practices. Where it irks me is p2p games, but that's risk when you allow it in some and not all.
    The main objective of a so called 'AAA company' is to exploit you.
    The term itself 'AAA company' most likely has roots in a marketing strategy.
    Gdemami

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • HarikenHariken Member EpicPosts: 2,680
    ciely said:
    meanwhile there are p2p games with p2w cash shops, p2w isn't a exclusive to f2p games.
    Yeah this myth needs to die. So sick of post claiming this only happens in f2p games. All game companies number one priority is to get as much money out of you. And your stupid if you think because you pay a monthly sub in your game your safe from it. 
    Loke666Quizar1973
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    The reason this practice is booming is not because of them newbs who didn't heed your warning. It is because of the whales who didn't care, and now they are even happier. 

    and who is the OP to tell the whales what they can or cannot do? It is their money. If they want to buy loot boxes, or gamble it away in Vegas, or just burn it for fun, it is their prerogative.
  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 3,338
    The reason this practice is booming is not because of them newbs who didn't heed your warning. It is because of the whales who didn't care, and now they are even happier. 

    and who is the OP to tell the whales what they can or cannot do? It is their money. If they want to buy loot boxes, or gamble it away in Vegas, or just burn it for fun, it is their prerogative.
    Prying into other people's personal affairs and criticism are two different things, don't have them mixed up. One can sell their child and buy heroin instead. It is his business, but I'd still call him a fucking mindless junkie. 

    And this issue is very different, because it is affecting people besides the whales, otherwise no one would've cared. 

    So if you are saying no one is allowed to express their opinion on regards of what affects them directly--we're not speculating anymore, it has already happened--then you should heed your own advice and stop tellibg people what they cannot do. 
    GdemamiTuor7MrMelGibsonMadFrenchie[Deleted User]CecropiaCogohi
    Constantine, The Console Poster

    • "One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,802
    The reason this practice is booming is not because of them newbs who didn't heed your warning. It is because of the whales who didn't care, and now they are even happier. 

    and who is the OP to tell the whales what they can or cannot do? It is their money. If they want to buy loot boxes, or gamble it away in Vegas, or just burn it for fun, it is their prerogative.
    Prying into other people's personal affairs and criticism are two different things, don't have them mixed up. One can sell their child and buy heroin instead. It is his business, but I'd still call him a fucking mindless junkie. 

    And this issue is very different, because it is affecting people besides the whales, otherwise no one would've cared. 

    So if you are saying no one is allowed to express their opinion on regards of what affects them directly--we're not speculating anymore, it has already happened--then you should heed your own advice and stop tellibg people what they cannot do. 
    But frankly.. the games that never get out of pre-release state are way worse.
    They keep raking in money while being almost unplayable.

    This is hurting the players way more than the f2p model.
    Harbinger of Fools
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    The reason this practice is booming is not because of them newbs who didn't heed your warning. It is because of the whales who didn't care, and now they are even happier. 

    and who is the OP to tell the whales what they can or cannot do? It is their money. If they want to buy loot boxes, or gamble it away in Vegas, or just burn it for fun, it is their prerogative.
    Prying into other people's personal affairs and criticism are two different things, don't have them mixed up. One can sell their child and buy heroin instead. It is his business, but I'd still call him a fucking mindless junkie. 

    And this issue is very different, because it is affecting people besides the whales, otherwise no one would've cared. 

    So if you are saying no one is allowed to express their opinion on regards of what affects them directly--we're not speculating anymore, it has already happened--then you should heed your own advice and stop tellibg people what they cannot do. 
    ITS A FUCKING GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    sorry I just had to vent, it was driving me nuts
    MadFrenchieConstantineMerus

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited October 2017
    Dakeru said:
    The reason this practice is booming is not because of them newbs who didn't heed your warning. It is because of the whales who didn't care, and now they are even happier. 

    and who is the OP to tell the whales what they can or cannot do? It is their money. If they want to buy loot boxes, or gamble it away in Vegas, or just burn it for fun, it is their prerogative.
    Prying into other people's personal affairs and criticism are two different things, don't have them mixed up. One can sell their child and buy heroin instead. It is his business, but I'd still call him a fucking mindless junkie. 

    And this issue is very different, because it is affecting people besides the whales, otherwise no one would've cared. 

    So if you are saying no one is allowed to express their opinion on regards of what affects them directly--we're not speculating anymore, it has already happened--then you should heed your own advice and stop tellibg people what they cannot do. 
    But frankly.. the games that never get out of pre-release state are way worse.
    They keep raking in money while being almost unplayable.

    This is hurting the players way more than the f2p model.
    that is very far from the truth.

    These titles are friggin fantastic, most of them are the best games I have ever played...ever

    Space Engineers
    Medieval Engineers

    7 Days to Die

    Imperium Galactic Survival

    The Forest

    Subnautica

    Life is Feudal

    Stranded Deep

    From the Depths

    Kerbal Space Program

    StarMade

    Another Brick in the Mall

    Kenshi

    RimWorld

    Hospitalize

    I have by far more hours playing these 'unfinished' games then I do finished games by a large margin. why? because they are fun

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • Panther2103Panther2103 Member EpicPosts: 5,766
    I don't care if the game is Free to Play, Pay to Play, has a Cash Shop, or anything like that. If the game is fun than it is fun. I'll play the fun games. I'll pay whatever I want if there's more than an upfront fee and if it feels worth it. 
    Phaserlight
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,122
    I'm sure securing this patent in a market where the masses have already accepted this being the overwhelming default will change things substantially.
  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,802
    SEANMCAD said:
    Dakeru said:
    The reason this practice is booming is not because of them newbs who didn't heed your warning. It is because of the whales who didn't care, and now they are even happier. 

    and who is the OP to tell the whales what they can or cannot do? It is their money. If they want to buy loot boxes, or gamble it away in Vegas, or just burn it for fun, it is their prerogative.
    Prying into other people's personal affairs and criticism are two different things, don't have them mixed up. One can sell their child and buy heroin instead. It is his business, but I'd still call him a fucking mindless junkie. 

    And this issue is very different, because it is affecting people besides the whales, otherwise no one would've cared. 

    So if you are saying no one is allowed to express their opinion on regards of what affects them directly--we're not speculating anymore, it has already happened--then you should heed your own advice and stop tellibg people what they cannot do. 
    But frankly.. the games that never get out of pre-release state are way worse.
    They keep raking in money while being almost unplayable.

    This is hurting the players way more than the f2p model.
    that is very far from the truth.

    These titles are friggin fantastic, most of them are the best games I have ever played...ever

    Space Engineers
    Medieval Engineers

    7 Days to Die

    Imperium Galactic Survival

    The Forest

    Subnautica

    Life is Feudal

    Stranded Deep

    From the Depths

    Kerbal Space Program

    StarMade

    Another Brick in the Mall

    Kenshi

    RimWorld

    Hospitalize

    I have by far more hours playing these 'unfinished' games then I do finished games by a large margin. why? because they are fun

    I clearly said games that never get out of the pre-release state.

    Space Engineers
    Release Date: 23 Oct, 2013

    Medieval Engineers
    Release Date: 19 Feb, 2015

    The Forest
    RELEASE DATE: 30 May, 2014

    7 Days to Die
    RELEASE DATE: 13 Dec, 2013

    Kerbal Space Program
    Release Date: 27 Apr, 2015

    Life is Feudal
    RELEASE DATE: 17 Nov, 2015

    etc etc etc 
    Harbinger of Fools
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Dakeru said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Dakeru said:
    The reason this practice is booming is not because of them newbs who didn't heed your warning. It is because of the whales who didn't care, and now they are even happier. 

    and who is the OP to tell the whales what they can or cannot do? It is their money. If they want to buy loot boxes, or gamble it away in Vegas, or just burn it for fun, it is their prerogative.
    Prying into other people's personal affairs and criticism are two different things, don't have them mixed up. One can sell their child and buy heroin instead. It is his business, but I'd still call him a fucking mindless junkie. 

    And this issue is very different, because it is affecting people besides the whales, otherwise no one would've cared. 

    So if you are saying no one is allowed to express their opinion on regards of what affects them directly--we're not speculating anymore, it has already happened--then you should heed your own advice and stop tellibg people what they cannot do. 
    But frankly.. the games that never get out of pre-release state are way worse.
    They keep raking in money while being almost unplayable.

    This is hurting the players way more than the f2p model.
    that is very far from the truth.

    These titles are friggin fantastic, most of them are the best games I have ever played...ever

    Space Engineers
    Medieval Engineers

    7 Days to Die

    Imperium Galactic Survival

    The Forest

    Subnautica

    Life is Feudal

    Stranded Deep

    From the Depths

    Kerbal Space Program

    StarMade

    Another Brick in the Mall

    Kenshi

    RimWorld

    Hospitalize

    I have by far more hours playing these 'unfinished' games then I do finished games by a large margin. why? because they are fun

    I clearly said games that never get out of the pre-release state.

    Space Engineers
    Release Date: 23 Oct, 2013

    Medieval Engineers
    Release Date: 19 Feb, 2015

    The Forest
    RELEASE DATE: 30 May, 2014

    7 Days to Die
    RELEASE DATE: 13 Dec, 2013

    Kerbal Space Program
    Release Date: 27 Apr, 2015

    Life is Feudal
    RELEASE DATE: 17 Nov, 2015

    etc etc etc 
    all of those games are in early access (pre-release). some of them are now released but I still had the vast majority of my play hours when they were in early access

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • azarhalazarhal Member RarePosts: 1,402
    edited October 2017
    I'm sure securing this patent in a market where the masses have already accepted this being the overwhelming default will change things substantially.
    Funny enough, with this new patent, Activision could sue the other companies for doing the same now... (and depending how the others did it, win). So it might actually cause change, as in only Activision will be legally allowed to do it.
  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,802
    SEANMCAD said:
    all of those games are in early access (pre-release). some of them are now released but I still had the vast majority of my play hours when they were in early access
    Maybe so but again I clearly said games that NEVER get out of pre-release are hurting the players.

    So if you give me a list of games that released 2-4 years ago it clearly doesn't qualify as games I criticized.
    MrMelGibson
    Harbinger of Fools
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited October 2017
    Dakeru said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    all of those games are in early access (pre-release). some of them are now released but I still had the vast majority of my play hours when they were in early access
    Maybe so but again I clearly said games that NEVER get out of pre-release are hurting the players.

    So if you give me a list of games that released 2-4 years ago it clearly doesn't qualify as games I criticized.
    the vast majority of those games are still in early access. they are still pre-released, so they have 'never been released'. so what makes you think they will become released?

    and when is 'never'? 6 months? 7 months? 4 years? (7 days to die has been in early access for almost 4 years and I have 1000 hours of fun in them)

    so again....games in pre-release status are not bad by default and 'never' is tricky to quantify isnt?
    Kyleran

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • ResidevResidev Member UncommonPosts: 27
    edited October 2017
    azarhal said:
    I'm sure securing this patent in a market where the masses have already accepted this being the overwhelming default will change things substantially.
    Funny enough, with this new patent, Activision could sue the other companies for doing the same now... (and depending how the others did it, win). So it might actually cause change, as in only Activision will be legally allowed to do it.
    Actually the patent specifically describes a method to lure people to purchase items, rather than patenting the item-mall itself.

    For example - match-making will match you against players who have purchased items that are very effective against you - or even, who have the items that you want, and the game knows it.

    Or on the contrary - if you just bought an item from the shop, it will match you again weaker players, making you feel good about the purchase.


    As far as I'm aware - no item shop works like that. And EA/Activision states that none of their games use it (yet) either.




    But it seems like everyone misses one major point:
    It's patent, so only EA/Activision will use this joke of a system to shoo away their customers, so no one should care, really.
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited October 2017
    Residev said:
    azarhal said:
    I'm sure securing this patent in a market where the masses have already accepted this being the overwhelming default will change things substantially.
    Funny enough, with this new patent, Activision could sue the other companies for doing the same now... (and depending how the others did it, win). So it might actually cause change, as in only Activision will be legally allowed to do it.
    Actually the patent specifically describes a method to lure people to purchase items, rather than patenting the item-mall itself.

    For example - match-making will match you against players who have purchased items that are very effective against you - or even, who have the items that you want, and the game knows it.

    Or on the contrary - if you just bought an item from the shop, it will match you again weaker players, making you feel good about the purchase.


    As far as I'm aware - no item shop works like that. And EA/Activision states that none of their games use it (yet) either.




    But it seems like everyone misses one major point:
    It's patent, so only EA/Activision will use this joke of a system to shoo away their customers, so no one should care, really.
    EA is doing this to dial up the volume on exploiting consumers. This is reaching into the area where even I feel 'buyer beware' isnt good enough.

    I think 'buyer beware' is fine when the information on what is being purchased is clear, stated and understood. This however is obfuscating reality and intentionally manipulating because its not clear if what you are experiencing is to manipulate you to buy or not. its really shady in my opinion.

    I think what EA needs to do is to spend less time doing shit like this and more time just making good games which they dont do in the first place!

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • anemoanemo Member RarePosts: 1,903
    EA has already learned their lesson with Battlefield Heroes, that forum-things don't matter at all when it comes to cash shop items.

    BFH had good MAU and ARPPU, but bad ARPU and conversion prior to the changes, but there was a 100 to 200 percent jump in daily revenue overnight with the new guns. DAU didn't change whatsoever, and while ARPPU dropped during this period, there was a "a really dramatic increase" in conversion -- three times as much. "We were still under a five percent conversion rate daily," says Cousins, but still much happier. 


    In other words, "there was a mismatch between what was being said on the forums and what was happening in the data." So they analyzed the forum. The stats: 78 percent of their users never touched the forums. 20 percent read at least once but didn't post. Two percent read and posted on forums, in proportion of the game's total user base.

    https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/123779/GDC_2011_Perfecting_The_FreeToPlay_Battlefield_Heroes.php

    Quite literally forum users don't matter when it comes to how you monetize your game, as a matter of fact most of their users lied as far as they were concerned (when they claimed to not be buying anything, but were actually on average buying 10 times more than a non-forum user).  

    When it came to retention after adding Pay to Win, they only missed out on 5% of new users staying in the game but gained 3 times the conversion rate.   Also going to Pay to Win changed them from a game that was going to die fast, to one that died slow while the publisher got to swim in money.
    Scot

    Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.

    "At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."

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