All you MMO newbs were warned about F2P. Yet you supported it.

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  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 26,664
    There are still sub games out there.



    Sure .. but there are so few that they don't matter much. 
    Sub only is rare, but many games offer optional subs of varying degrees of "encouragement" or benefit.

    Gone but not forgotten,  my, my, hey, hey, subscriptions are here to stay....
    ConstantineMerus

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    On hiatus from EVE Online since Dec 2016 - CCP continues to wander aimlessly

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon




  • ScotScot UKMember RarePosts: 6,510
    Kyleran said:
    There are still sub games out there.



    Sure .. but there are so few that they don't matter much. 
    Sub only is rare, but many games offer optional subs of varying degrees of "encouragement" or benefit.

    Gone but not forgotten,  my, my, hey, hey, subscriptions are here to stay....

    There was a time when it seemed that cash shops could be designed to incentivise players to buy the subscription, the so called Turbine model. Well Lotro's Turbine model lasted a year before they gave up on that. From then on it is was get the cash every which way you can and is that way in nearly every MMO today.

    Want cosmetic items? Yes we sell those. Want gameplay breaking items? We sell those. Want loot boxes. Yes we sell those. Want a subscription? Yep we sell those too. If they thought old MMO style art books and maps would sell in the cash shop that would be there too. If they thought you would buy a MMO themed car they would put that it, whatever, if it sells.

    Kyleran

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  • RobsolfRobsolf Grand Rapids, MIMember UncommonPosts: 4,428
    Oh yes.  You warned me, Superfriends.  I've been bad and have now seen the err of my ways.  You can let me go, now.
    Phaserlight
  • HashbrickHashbrick Green Bay, WIMember UncommonPosts: 1,264
    OP wants to be the Paul Revere of gaming.  A patent doesn't mean anything, it is just a way for them to use legally.  If they don't like a certain online game cause it does something game X also does they have a patent to try to push to prove fault.  That's all it is, the sky isn't falling.
    I'm a simple man spoiled from MMOs of the old age.  Looking for a home but deserted.  My heart and time is not worthy for the MMOs of the new age.
  • ScotScot UKMember RarePosts: 6,510
    Robsolf said:
    Oh yes.  You warned me, Superfriends.  I've been bad and have now seen the err of my ways.  You can let me go, now.

    You are still going on Santa's naughty list, no escape for you!
    Robsolf

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

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  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 14,734
    edited November 7
    Robsolf said:
    Oh yes.  You warned me, Superfriends.  I've been bad and have now seen the err of my ways.  You can let me go, now.

    Meanwhile, back at the Hall of Doom... :lol:
    Post edited by Torval on
    KyleranRobsolfPhaserlight
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  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember RarePosts: 27,388
    Kyleran said:
    There are still sub games out there.



    Sure .. but there are so few that they don't matter much. 
    Sub only is rare, but many games offer optional subs of varying degrees of "encouragement" or benefit.

    Gone but not forgotten,  my, my, hey, hey, subscriptions are here to stay....

    Sure .. so? sub as an option is still f2p if you can play for free. It is pretty irrelevant of whether someone else play a sub, or buy a virtual sword, as long as it is free for me. 
    Gdemami
  • LerxstLerxst Phx, AZMember UncommonPosts: 633
    This can actually be done right, as in a Premium account that offers the full game features you'd expect vs. the free account that either limits you or places major grinding hurdles in your way. Archeage started off this way in its first month, then they ruined it.

    FTP games, however, should limit themselves to account features and not in-game items. The introduction of those items has never ended well. They either get traded around in the game and utterly destroy the economy or they circumvent an intentional feature of the game and break the entire process in your favor.
  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 26,664
    Kyleran said:
    There are still sub games out there.



    Sure .. but there are so few that they don't matter much. 
    Sub only is rare, but many games offer optional subs of varying degrees of "encouragement" or benefit.

    Gone but not forgotten,  my, my, hey, hey, subscriptions are here to stay....

    Sure .. so? sub as an option is still f2p if you can play for free. It is pretty irrelevant of whether someone else play a sub, or buy a virtual sword, as long as it is free for me. 
    Well no, those other folks paying a sub or buying in a cash shop are "customers" while those not doing so are leeching. 

    Mom always taught me to pay my own way in life.....
    Gdemami

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    On hiatus from EVE Online since Dec 2016 - CCP continues to wander aimlessly

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon




  • RaquisRaquis hartenbosMember UncommonPosts: 795
    to the OP people dont have a say in anything the gaming companies decided to go free to play STOP blaming people for all the crap in the world its the governments that create all the sh*t in the world and their puppets!
  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAMember EpicPosts: 7,680
    Nilden said:
    immodium said:
    Torval said:
    Moirae said:
    I've always said that f2p games are a curse on the genre. 
    We all love our demons and scapegoats.
    The funny thing is what was originally killing the genre wasn't f2p, it was a forced subscription model.
    That's just straight up bullshit.

    Everything on the left side of this graph is growth with sub model.
    Image result for world of warcraft subscriptions

    What we clearly see is that the highest rate of growth was vanilla.
    GdemamiKyleran
    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAMember EpicPosts: 7,680
    immodium said:
    Torval said:
    Moirae said:
    I've always said that f2p games are a curse on the genre. 
    We all love our demons and scapegoats.
    The funny thing is what was originally killing the genre wasn't f2p, it was a forced subscription model.


    Were you around for the pay per hour days of AOL and TSN? Paying $6.00 per hour makes $15.00 per month cheap.
    GdemamiKyleranConstantineMerus
    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW New York, NYMember UncommonPosts: 470
    waynejr2 said:
    Nilden said:
    immodium said:
    Torval said:
    Moirae said:
    I've always said that f2p games are a curse on the genre. 
    We all love our demons and scapegoats.
    The funny thing is what was originally killing the genre wasn't f2p, it was a forced subscription model.
    That's just straight up bullshit.

    Everything on the left side of this graph is growth with sub model.
    Image result for world of warcraft subscriptions

    What we clearly see is that the highest rate of growth was vanilla.
    I think the growth really have to do with expanding WoW outside of North America and Europe.
  • KonfessKonfess Dallas, TXMember RarePosts: 1,614
    AAAMEOW said:
    waynejr2 said:
    Nilden said:
    immodium said:
    Torval said:
    Moirae said:
    I've always said that f2p games are a curse on the genre. 
    We all love our demons and scapegoats.
    The funny thing is what was originally killing the genre wasn't f2p, it was a forced subscription model.
    That's just straight up bullshit.

    Everything on the left side of this graph is growth with sub model.
    Image result for world of warcraft subscriptions

    What we clearly see is that the highest rate of growth was vanilla.
    I think the growth really have to do with expanding WoW outside of North America and Europe.
    Only Half at best is accounted for by Expansion outside N.A. and EU.
    Gdemami

    Pardon any spelling errors
    Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven
    Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
    Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
    As if it could exist, without being payed for.
    F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
    Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.

  • KonfessKonfess Dallas, TXMember RarePosts: 1,614
    Kyleran said:
    There are still sub games out there.



    Sure .. but there are so few that they don't matter much. 
    Sub only is rare, but many games offer optional subs of varying degrees of "encouragement" or benefit.

    Gone but not forgotten,  my, my, hey, hey, subscriptions are here to stay....

    Sure .. so? sub as an option is still f2p if you can play for free. It is pretty irrelevant of whether someone else play a sub, or buy a virtual sword, as long as it is free for me. 
    But that's the point your days of playing for free and numbered, and counting down to zero.
    Gdemami

    Pardon any spelling errors
    Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven
    Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
    Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
    As if it could exist, without being payed for.
    F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
    Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAMember EpicPosts: 7,680
    AAAMEOW said:
    waynejr2 said:
    Nilden said:
    immodium said:
    Torval said:
    Moirae said:
    I've always said that f2p games are a curse on the genre. 
    We all love our demons and scapegoats.
    The funny thing is what was originally killing the genre wasn't f2p, it was a forced subscription model.
    That's just straight up bullshit.

    Everything on the left side of this graph is growth with sub model.
    Image result for world of warcraft subscriptions

    What we clearly see is that the highest rate of growth was vanilla.
    I think the growth really have to do with expanding WoW outside of North America and Europe.

    Was it during vanilla or not?   Yes it was.
    KyleranGdemami
    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 26,664
    waynejr2 said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    waynejr2 said:
    Nilden said:
    immodium said:
    Torval said:
    Moirae said:
    I've always said that f2p games are a curse on the genre. 
    We all love our demons and scapegoats.
    The funny thing is what was originally killing the genre wasn't f2p, it was a forced subscription model.
    That's just straight up bullshit.

    Everything on the left side of this graph is growth with sub model.
    Image result for world of warcraft subscriptions

    What we clearly see is that the highest rate of growth was vanilla.
    I think the growth really have to do with expanding WoW outside of North America and Europe.

    Was it during vanilla or not?   Yes it was.
    It was also during George Bush Jrs presidency, equally relevant comparison. 
    ConstantineMerus

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    On hiatus from EVE Online since Dec 2016 - CCP continues to wander aimlessly

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon




  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember RarePosts: 27,388
    Konfess said:
    Kyleran said:
    There are still sub games out there.



    Sure .. but there are so few that they don't matter much. 
    Sub only is rare, but many games offer optional subs of varying degrees of "encouragement" or benefit.

    Gone but not forgotten,  my, my, hey, hey, subscriptions are here to stay....

    Sure .. so? sub as an option is still f2p if you can play for free. It is pretty irrelevant of whether someone else play a sub, or buy a virtual sword, as long as it is free for me. 
    But that's the point your days of playing for free and numbered, and counting down to zero.

    Lol .. are you willing to bet that there will be no more f2p games soon? You know they are taking shares from sub-only games, right?
  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Long Island, NYMember RarePosts: 1,047
    edited November 16
    Hashbrick said:
    OP wants to be the Paul Revere of gaming.  A patent doesn't mean anything, it is just a way for them to use legally.  If they don't like a certain online game cause it does something game X also does they have a patent to try to push to prove fault.  That's all it is, the sky isn't falling.
    "The alarm raised by the three riders successfully allowed the militia to confront the British troops in Concord, and then harry them all the way back to Boston"

    If I go with your thinking.....the OP warned about F2P...F2P is here...and now the fight is on to keep it at bay....personally I think the sky has fallen.

    "Henny Penny, more commonly known in the United States as Chicken Little and sometimes as Chicken Licken, is a folk tale with a moral in the form of a cumulative tale about a chicken who believes the world is coming to an end"

    Pay $80 for the base game, then pay more to unlock content that is developed but not release with the base game, then pay more for cosmetic items, then pay for QoL items.

    Real F2P games you don't pay for the base game and then all the cash shop stuff. This hybrid pay for a watered down version + cash shop is a very greedy western version of F2P and it seems much worse.

    Post edited by TalulaRose on
    Gdemami
  • postlarvalpostlarval Member EpicPosts: 1,647
    Kyleran said:
    There are still sub games out there.



    Sure .. but there are so few that they don't matter much. 
    Sub only is rare, but many games offer optional subs of varying degrees of "encouragement" or benefit.

    Gone but not forgotten,  my, my, hey, hey, subscriptions are here to stay....

    Sure .. so? sub as an option is still f2p if you can play for free. It is pretty irrelevant of whether someone else play a sub, or buy a virtual sword, as long as it is free for me. 
    Yep, there's a big difference between "you have to pay a sub to play" and "if you pay a sub you can get extra perks". The latter is just another form of a cash shop but players are apparently not bright enough to figure out that little marketing gem.
    GdemamiScot
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 15,968
    what people in this thread should start to notice by now is that their microcosm social universe is clearly not the majority. If it wasnt working, these companies would not do it.

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • Nightbringe1Nightbringe1 Bluefield, WVMember UncommonPosts: 1,252
    edited November 16

    I have never supported f2p or p2w or loot boxes with a single dime.

    I have my subscription to EQ and that + expansions is the only payment method I have ever used.

    I've recognized that slippery slope of micro-transactions on day one and watched the masses fall for it in despair. There is nothing just one person can do aside from voting with their wallet. Unfortunately, the majority voted in favor of.

    Post edited by Nightbringe1 on
    Gdemami

    Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
    Benjamin Franklin

  • Beatnik59Beatnik59 Chicago, ILMember UncommonPosts: 2,384
    Personally, I think it's the chickens come home to roost.  It might even be a good thing.

    For too long, power gamers have been saying "we don't mind the cash store, so long as you limit it to fluff like pets, skins, and costumes."

    More or less, "the cash store is alright, so long as we stick it to the roleplayers and other fluffernutters like Beatnik59, since we don't care about roleplay or roleplayers anyway."

    But there was one crucial mistake in all of this: they made the games so power gamer friendly, they took out any and all reasons for RPers to want to hang out there.

    Text boxes?  Gone.  Bases and structures?  Gone.  RP tools?  Nerfed.  Emotes?  Pointless and contextless.

    And so, what they were left with is a bunch of costumes, props, skins, and other stuff that roleplayers really like in the cash shop, with no roleplayers to buy them.  Meanwhile, xXDEATHDEALERXx is playing on the developer's dime, maybe with the help of gold farmers or powerlevelling services, but contributing nearly nothing to the developer's cash store.

    And, what's worse, when they grind through the content, they then, en masse, come to forums like this one, to complain that the game is too easy, too short, and endgame sucks.

    __________________________
    "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
    --Arcken

    "...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
    --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.

    "It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
    --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 15,968
    edited November 18
    Beatnik59 said:
    Personally, I think it's the chickens come home to roost.  It might even be a good thing.

    For too long, power gamers have been saying "we don't mind the cash store, so long as you limit it to fluff like pets, skins, and costumes."

    More or less, "the cash store is alright, so long as we stick it to the roleplayers and other fluffernutters like Beatnik59, since we don't care about roleplay or roleplayers anyway."

    But there was one crucial mistake in all of this: they made the games so power gamer friendly, they took out any and all reasons for RPers to want to hang out there.

    Text boxes?  Gone.  Bases and structures?  Gone.  RP tools?  Nerfed.  Emotes?  Pointless and contextless.

    And so, what they were left with is a bunch of costumes, props, skins, and other stuff that roleplayers really like in the cash shop, with no roleplayers to buy them.  Meanwhile, xXDEATHDEALERXx is playing on the developer's dime, maybe with the help of gold farmers or powerlevelling services, but contributing nearly nothing to the developer's cash store.

    And, what's worse, when they grind through the content, they then, en masse, come to forums like this one, to complain that the game is too easy, too short, and endgame sucks.
    That is excellent observation and good points. To be clear I assuming those things are gone in such games as you say because I havent been playing MMOs (and I wouldnt be surprised) 

    makes me wonder who is buying these items, I dont see traditional role players doing it for sure
    Post edited by SEANMCAD on
    Beatnik59

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember RarePosts: 27,388

    I have never supported f2p or p2w or loot boxes with a single dime.


    You don't have to. You are not a whale anyway.

    If you have not yet figured it out ... the whales support those games. We free-ride on whales. No support is necessary. 

    For example, i have blast with warframe. You should try it. Some of the best free grinding action combat fun.
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