Star Wars Battlefront II or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and the Love the Loot Box - Michael Bitt

MikeBMikeB MMORPG.com Community ManagerQueens, NYAdministrator RarePosts: 6,273
edited October 12 in News & Features Discussion

imageStar Wars Battlefront II or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and the Love the Loot Box - Michael Bitton - MMORPG.com

Much digital ink has been spilled over the past week on the alarming state of loot boxes in general, but more specifically, for games like Star Wars: Battlefront II, for which EA has locked the entirety of the game’s progression behind the much-maligned feature. But are things as bad as they would appear? Not necessarily.

Read the full story here


Michael "MikeB" Bitton
Community Manager
Twitter: @eMikeB

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Comments

  • TillerTiller Member RarePosts: 6,230
    Grabs popcorn*





  • BlinkennBlinkenn TNMember UncommonPosts: 136
    edited October 12
    Corporations that prey on the weak-willed need regulating. At least China, Korea, and Japan have some laws that force devs to show loot box drop rates.
    Post edited by Blinkenn on
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  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaMember EpicPosts: 13,175
    edited October 12
    Well i am glad he at least he had a well thought out argument,however i am not sold what so ever.
    First of all comparing a terrible idea and justifying it based on other bad ideas does not sell the idea to me at all.
    Yes i look at the problem from the straight vanilla fact that it is p2w and i am ok with that because anything excuse is just trying to detract from the fact it is p2w.
    Even if it were not p2w i still would never condone loot boxes...period for ANY reason.I said from the very first day,devs will test the waters and slowly make them more intrusive over the years.

    "paying more"well let them try and charge more,the market determines the price,if it is worth more,people will pay ,if not they won't simple really.This loot box idea was MEANT to be deceptive,meant to force more money out of gamer's.
    Imo the players have full right to full refunds,even above that nonsense Steam tries to pull with the 2 hours played so no refund,that alone is bullshit because it can sometimes take more than 2 hours before you see when a developer is locking out gameplay/content/abilities behind another hidden paywall.
    Post edited by Wizardry on
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  • doubleshot0270doubleshot0270 Member CommonPosts: 1
    is this a joke article the loot boxes are the only means of progression there is no excuse for this scum baggery
    FrodoFraginsStjerneoddRich84RealizerOzmodanmrputtsSiugValdheiminfomatzPhixion13and 6 others.
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 14,997
    Great article that highlights how complicated the situation is. I'm not a fan of monetizing progression at all, but apparently box fees don't cover the costs of development in the 21st Century.

    Publishing drop rates for all game loot systems, not just crates, would be a good step forward. I always get a chuckle from people that latch onto the loot crate issue but don't realize they've been supporting that sort of practice through RNG loot tables and subscriptions for years. The main difference between the new system of loot crates and the old system of subscriptions and DLC is that there aren't spending caps on the new system. In the old system there were spending and reward caps.
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  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaMember EpicPosts: 13,175
    Blinkenn said:
    Corporations that prey on the weak-willed need regulating. At least China, Korea, and Japan have some laws that force devs to show loot box drop rates.
    I agree the same reasons we have laws behind seatbelts and distracted driving and selling liquor to someone already over the limit,tobacco to minors,because a lot of people are not capable of thinking rationally or with any common sense.

    Even when there are laws,those corporations,businesses are still using lawyers to find ways around circumventing the law.Geesh even the governments are trying to circumvent their own law/legislature with new legislature that claims to  be on behalf of homeland security,people all over the world are SOB's,corrupt and trying to exploit other people.
    ValdheimLackingMMOGdemami

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  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 14,997
    Wizardry said:
    Blinkenn said:
    Corporations that prey on the weak-willed need regulating. At least China, Korea, and Japan have some laws that force devs to show loot box drop rates.
    I agree the same reasons we have laws behind seatbelts and distracted driving and selling liquor to someone already over the limit,tobacco to minors,because a lot of people are not capable of thinking rationally or with any common sense.

    Even when there are laws,those corporations,businesses are still using lawyers to find ways around circumventing the law.Geesh even the governments are trying to circumvent their own law/legislature with new legislature that claims to  be on behalf of homeland security,people all over the world are SOB's,corrupt and trying to exploit other people.
    You know the first sign someone is incapable of engaging in a rational argument? False equivalencies. It's a favored tool of those that have no logical footing to stand on.
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  • HeraseHerase LondonMember RarePosts: 914
    edited October 12
    "If you’re still worried about getting stomped on launch day by people who blow absurd amounts of money on crates, I’d suggest taking some reassurance in the fact that most people don't monetize at all. Those who do monetize tend to spend a lot, sure. But the impact of those who do spend a ton will also only narrow over time as players catch up"

    It will require you to open 720 crates, depending on if you get scrapes in every crate before you have enough to make all guns. Star cards (class power ups pretty much) are in the same boat as you require scrapes to upgrade them.

    The game revolves around these loot boxes and it's painstakingly slow to earn coins to gain loot boxes, even playing well doesn't help. A last placed person earns the exact same amount of coins as someone who is in first place after a match.

    If things are implemented as they are now on launch, people will either be sick to death of the grind and lack of progression or sick to death having their ass handed to them constantly before they even catch up.

    We will have to wait an see. but overall there is no need for lootboxes in a B2P game, i'd rather have DLC than P2W
    Post edited by Herase on
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  • Panther2103Panther2103 Edmonds, WAMember RarePosts: 3,548
    Blinkenn said:
    Corporations that prey on the weak-willed need regulating. At least China, Korea, and Japan have some laws that force devs to show loot box drop rates.
    Is there proof of forcing devs to do this in any country other than China? I remember when China passed that law requiring this a couple months ago but I haven't seen anything about the other two. 
  • DaranarDaranar Walkersville, MDMember UncommonPosts: 249
    This is why I'm mostly done with these major developer/publisher games. I'm so sick of the greed. I can find far better games from indie developers on steam with no scumbaggery for $30 bucks and enjoy it for years. How long can these major publishers really keep up the $60 box price for a shallow game and require hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars for multiplayer success on top of base prices?

    Sadly it's a problem that starts with the gamers. "Fun" is no longer the objective for gamers, it's success, bragging rights, or for many streamers...money. A shame.
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  • CygiCygi Member UncommonPosts: 100
    @Michael Bitton:

    How about a video game, when you have all this upgrades/weapons/scraps, but you unlock them by progress, and buying them only with in-game currency.

    Remember the older games, Michael?
    Or you just too young of a gamer to remember that?

    I know that the staff of this site is tired of accusation of being paid by companies, but this article?
    "Ooh, it's not so bad, ooh, it'll be ok"

    What is this shit?!

    Reading this makes me automaticly searching for sign "This article is sponsored by EA".

    Disgusting.
    DaranarAlomarAeanderNycteliosalivenTorvalStjerneoddRachiouRich84Octagon7711and 13 others.
  • immoralthangimmoralthang Member UncommonPosts: 28
    In a single player game, I could care less about micro transactions. When discussing loot boxes or paying real money for items in multiplayer games, they really should be cosmetic only. Being able to purchase the best items with a credit card eliminates the joy of pure and balanced (as can be anyways) competition.

    Remember the RMAH fiasco with Diablo 3? It tarnished the franchise name and it took Blizzard a couple years and an expansion to fix it. And D3 didn’t even have PVP!

    This is a poor choice on EA’s part and I know the backlash is going to be strong. The question is, are enough people going to vote with their wallets and voice their concerns through the appropriate channels, or will the Star Wars label and release of a new movie overshadow the gamebreaking pay-2-win?

    I hope for the former, but being a huge Star Wars nerd myself I know people are going to gobble this game up and make EA millions in the first week. I can’t say I blame them, we’ve been deprived of AAA Star Wars games since Lucasarts went under.
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  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYMember RarePosts: 2,242
    edited October 12
    In a single player game, I could care less about micro transactions. When discussing loot boxes or paying real money for items in multiplayer games, they really should be cosmetic only. Being able to purchase the best items with a credit card eliminates the joy of pure and balanced (as can be anyways) competition.

    Remember the RMAH fiasco with Diablo 3? It tarnished the franchise name and it took Blizzard a couple years and an expansion to fix it. And D3 didn’t even have PVP!

    This is a poor choice on EA’s part and I know the backlash is going to be strong. The question is, are enough people going to vote with their wallets and voice their concerns through the appropriate channels, or will the Star Wars label and release of a new movie overshadow the gamebreaking pay-2-win?

    I hope for the former, but being a huge Star Wars nerd myself I know people are going to gobble this game up and make EA millions in the first week. I can’t say I blame them, we’ve been deprived of AAA Star Wars games since Lucasarts went under.
    I know many people on facebook and other friends who are still buying the new battlefront 2. Mostly my console gaming friends who say they don't care about micro-transactions and just want to play a fun star wars game (their words).

    The backlash on this is overblown and will make very little difference to the sales of battlefront 2. Most people don't care, despite the rage on youtube and some gaming sites. They just don't go on forums and talk about it, because they are playing the game or just don't care enough to go to forums or even use forums.

    Its like the new middle earth game. Its done really well in sales despite some rage at whatever was going on with it (loot boxes? dunno, didn't bother to look). However my console gaming friends are really enjoying the new middle earth game and don't care about any controversy with it.
    Post edited by TheScavenger on
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  • jpedrote52jpedrote52 Member UncommonPosts: 64
    How about no, It's a full priced game, there's no justification possible for P2W or ludicrously punishing P2Shortchut loot boxes, I can bare cosmetics (even though I hate them) but gameplay/power-up elements have no place in full priced game's loot boxes.
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  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 26,813
    The rational behind this argument is a lot like trying to make a good case for why being a prostitute is an acceptable career alternative for your daughter.

    Might be true as opposed to some other bad options but not sure learning to live with it is the right way to go.
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  • azurreiazurrei Member UncommonPosts: 310
    edited October 12
    P2W is great, you heard it here first at MMORPG! Can't wait to see all those Battlefront II advertisements donning the front page for months...hope it was worth it.
    Post edited by azurrei on
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  • laxielaxie UK - Leamington SpaMember RarePosts: 896
    This article is a good summary of what's wrong with people's mentality today.

    Games used to be creative experiences with a price tag on them. A team of people would come together and create something fun. Sometimes a publisher would try to cut corners and shift the vision, but in the end, you'd have an experience for a set price nevertheless.

    Movies are still like that. You pay a set price and get a set experience. Some box sets have bonus content, but the core experience is always there - whether it's a DVD, BluRay, TV or going to the movies. People wouldn't tolerate this excessive micro-transaction bullshit there, why do we tolerate it in games?

    When I go watch the new Star Wars movie, they don't pause the movie at the first big battle and say "We will play this battle 50 times. But you could pay $1.99 for a chance to go on with the story". If that was the case, people would walk out the cinema. They would not be writing editorials saying "I like these new movie lootboxes, before, I'd have to wait 2 hours to see the ending. Now there's a 0.01% chance I'll get to it right away! And if I'm unlucky, I can always watch the battle 50 times. Win win right there."

    These days, games are clearly money milking machines first, experiences second. Battlefront 2 is a prime example of this - the core design is literally about buying loot boxes, with a game play moulded around it.
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  • AsheramAsheram Member RarePosts: 2,676

    Torval said:

    Great article that highlights how complicated the situation is. I'm not a fan of monetizing progression at all, but apparently box fees don't cover the costs of development in the 21st Century.

    Publishing drop rates for all game loot systems, not just crates, would be a good step forward. I always get a chuckle from people that latch onto the loot crate issue but don't realize they've been supporting that sort of practice through RNG loot tables and subscriptions for years. The main difference between the new system of loot crates and the old system of subscriptions and DLC is that there aren't spending caps on the new system. In the old system there were spending and reward caps.



    Since when have single player games and shooters had subscriptions? And if box fees aren't covering development costs I wonder how much money games like Wolfenstein 2 are losing if that really is the case.

    image
  • pantaropantaro Member UncommonPosts: 336
    Daranar said:
    This is why I'm mostly done with these major developer/publisher games. I'm so sick of the greed. I can find far better games from indie developers on steam with no scumbaggery for $30 bucks and enjoy it for years. How long can these major publishers really keep up the $60 box price for a shallow game and require hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars for multiplayer success on top of base prices?

    Sadly it's a problem that starts with the gamers. "Fun" is no longer the objective for gamers, it's success, bragging rights, or for many streamers...money. A shame.
    i'm right there with you,i'm all about the indies now! as far as this article boy was that hard to read.....
    KyleranmrputtsNycteliosinfomatz
  • JakeSimJakeSim Franklin, MAMember UncommonPosts: 804
    People need to stop caring so much. Yeah.....It's shitty that games can be pay to win. But if you enjoy the experience, just git better/gud and play it. Enjoyable video game experiences are rare nowadays.
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  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCMember LegendaryPosts: 10,258
    Torval said:
    ... but apparently box fees don't cover the costs of development in the 21st Century...

    I would like to see definitive proof that this is the case in a B2P game. The thought that all these extras are necessary to cover the cost is at the root of the casual acceptance by gamers of these business models.

    IMO it's just an imported concept from the F2P world where, the argument can clearly be made that they are needed. It helps to rationalize their inclusion in games where the same argument makes no sense.

    Until I see proof (and fat chance any of them will open their books enough to prove it,) I'm looking at all of these as extra profit, not as covering the cost of development.
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  • NycteliosNyctelios Novo Hamburgo - RS - BrazilMember EpicPosts: 2,255
    This is a new low for this site.
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  • NycteliosNyctelios Novo Hamburgo - RS - BrazilMember EpicPosts: 2,255
    Torval said:
    Wizardry said:
    Blinkenn said:
    Corporations that prey on the weak-willed need regulating. At least China, Korea, and Japan have some laws that force devs to show loot box drop rates.
    I agree the same reasons we have laws behind seatbelts and distracted driving and selling liquor to someone already over the limit,tobacco to minors,because a lot of people are not capable of thinking rationally or with any common sense.

    Even when there are laws,those corporations,businesses are still using lawyers to find ways around circumventing the law.Geesh even the governments are trying to circumvent their own law/legislature with new legislature that claims to  be on behalf of homeland security,people all over the world are SOB's,corrupt and trying to exploit other people.
    You know the first sign someone is incapable of engaging in a rational argument? False equivalencies. It's a favored tool of those that have no logical footing to stand on.
    50 to 100% damage reduction scaling. That's my logical footing to stand on.
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  • DrunkWolfDrunkWolf Member UncommonPosts: 1,327
    you know whats going to happen with this? its going to lead to even more people using aim bots.

    They cant deal with the cheating now, imagine how many people are going to spend 10 bucks on a aimbot instead of some stupid loot crate hahaha

    this game is so doomed on PC, will probably sell a boat load because its star wars but population of players will be next to nothing in 6 months.

    mrputtsRealizerSiugGdemamiCazriel
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 14,997
    Kyleran said:
    The rational behind this argument is a lot like trying to make a good case for why being a prostitute is an acceptable career alternative for your daughter.

    Might be true as opposed to some other bad options but not sure learning to live with it is the right way to go.
    Great false equivalency. Those are excellent click grabbers.
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