Why Derek Smart is right about Star Citizen - His facts and why SC is likely to fail

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  • splattrsplattr saint louis, MOMember UncommonPosts: 69
    edited September 17
    Isn't it ironic one of the reasons the OP doesn't want the game any more is the poop mechanic, yet he is using a guy who constantly spews shit about the game from his mouth as his main source of "facts" about the game?

    Post edited by splattr on
    SedrynTyrosShaighMrMelGibsonFalstaff
  • VrikaVrika FinlandMember RarePosts: 4,128
    Garick said:
    Didn't these /loans/ Turn out to be simply SC taking out money to use now based on their business credit from how EU handles big buisness over there?   Its not really a loan more than it is just taking advantage of a sure thing by using money now that the government is for certain going to pay back for you at a clear precise time.
    Taking a loan against your future income is really a loan.

    CIG's official explanation is that it was just a smart money management move, but we could have a 10 page debate as to whether CIG gave their real reason in that statement, or just carefully obfuscated the situation.
    Excession
     
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus BaatorMember RarePosts: 2,000
    edited September 17
    Talonsin said:
    ....snip....



    Chris Roberts is really just like Derek, ....snip....

    If both of them were hanging from a building and I had to pick one to save I honestly dont know which one I would lend a hand to.  They would probably both die as I mulled the decision over in my head.

    Really though IMHO CR is much much better than DS, one is just a bitter and hateful has been, that has done NOTHING even remotely decent for gaming, while the other is a has been, that has actually done some decent stuff in gaming, that still believes he can make a difference.

    Now are they both full of poops at times sure but then so are most devs and most others in the gaming business as that's just part of the gig IMO.


    Post edited by Asm0deus on
    SedrynTyrosMrMelGibson

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.

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  • GarickGarick oneida, TNMember UncommonPosts: 82
    Vrika said:
    Garick said:
    Didn't these /loans/ Turn out to be simply SC taking out money to use now based on their business credit from how EU handles big buisness over there?   Its not really a loan more than it is just taking advantage of a sure thing by using money now that the government is for certain going to pay back for you at a clear precise time.
    Taking a loan against your future income is really a loan.

    CIG's official explanation is that it was just a smart money management move, but we could have a 10 page debate as to whether CIG gave their real reason in that statement, or just carefully obfuscated the situation.



    Is it a loan? Or a free asset? I mean if I told you that 100% you would get 50,000 dollars in 3 months and you took a loan out now with the agreement that in 3 months it would be fully paid back with no use of your own money what so ever. Wouldn't that just be sensible? Rather than waiting 3 months to obtain money to enhance company growth you would just make use of it now to help speed up the process because you have promises to keep and ideals to achieve.
    ExcessionGdemami
  • KefoKefo London, ONMember EpicPosts: 3,014
    Garick said:
    Vrika said:
    Garick said:
    Didn't these /loans/ Turn out to be simply SC taking out money to use now based on their business credit from how EU handles big buisness over there?   Its not really a loan more than it is just taking advantage of a sure thing by using money now that the government is for certain going to pay back for you at a clear precise time.
    Taking a loan against your future income is really a loan.

    CIG's official explanation is that it was just a smart money management move, but we could have a 10 page debate as to whether CIG gave their real reason in that statement, or just carefully obfuscated the situation.



    Is it a loan? Or a free asset? I mean if I told you that 100% you would get 50,000 dollars in 3 months and you took a loan out now with the agreement that in 3 months it would be fully paid back with no use of your own money what so ever. Wouldn't that just be sensible? Rather than waiting 3 months to obtain money to enhance company growth you would just make use of it now to help speed up the process because you have promises to keep and ideals to achieve.
    Are you that hard up for cash after raising over 150million dollars that you can't wait a few more months for your free money that's coming anyway or do you need to take out a loan that comes with strings?
    Gdemami
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Figueira da FozMember EpicPosts: 4,071
    edited September 17
    Kefo said:
    Are you that hard up for cash after raising over 150million dollars that you can't wait a few more months for your free money that's coming anyway or do you need to take out a loan that comes with strings?
    If you needed to be converting your dollars to pay your immediate costs in pounds, sure. Considering the financial gambles often done with this now due to the volatile GBP.

    And the rather obvious thing, companies would just not leave their money lying around in a bank account, that's known as losing money, the best practice is put it to use but that means you can only use part of it at any given time.
    Post edited by MaxBacon on
    Gdemami
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Chicago, ILMember EpicPosts: 5,711
    Feel free to try out the game again when it launches OP.  No worries.  

    As to being hard up for cash I remember when ESO did something different, that being their first MMO and all.  They went with a company that took out a dollar to test the account even thought the money wasn't supposed to be needed until a later date for the packages they ordered.  Anyways, there were a lot of posts from people who said that unexpected one dollar withdrawal caused their account to be overdrawn and a lot of checks to bounce.  I was surprised at that but it seems some people play their budgets that tight.

    "Change is the only constant."

  • klash2defklash2def Member RarePosts: 834
    Plot Twist: DS is CR. CR runs off with the money, while hiring goons to say CIG is gonna wipe any day now.

    Blockbuster Summer Drama Movie.. 

    SedrynTyrosTalonsinXarkoMrMelGibsonWankyudo
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  • TalonsinTalonsin Member EpicPosts: 3,337
    Garick said:
    Vrika said:
    Garick said:
    Didn't these /loans/ Turn out to be simply SC taking out money to use now based on their business credit from how EU handles big buisness over there?   Its not really a loan more than it is just taking advantage of a sure thing by using money now that the government is for certain going to pay back for you at a clear precise time.
    Taking a loan against your future income is really a loan.

    CIG's official explanation is that it was just a smart money management move, but we could have a 10 page debate as to whether CIG gave their real reason in that statement, or just carefully obfuscated the situation.



    Is it a loan? Or a free asset? I mean if I told you that 100% you would get 50,000 dollars in 3 months and you took a loan out now with the agreement that in 3 months it would be fully paid back with no use of your own money what so ever. Wouldn't that just be sensible? Rather than waiting 3 months to obtain money to enhance company growth you would just make use of it now to help speed up the process because you have promises to keep and ideals to achieve.
    That is not quite how it works mate.  Every loan has fee's and interest.  To be more realistic in your example, you know the UK Gov is going to give you 50,000 back at the end of this year so you take a loan for 50,000 now.  Just to process that loan will cost you 5000 in fees and assuming you have excellent collateral, you can get the prime interest rate of 4%.  so that 50,000 "advance" would really cost you 57,000. 

    Now we can all make excuses and make up numbers but the FACT remains that loans cost money in fees and interest.

    Now why would a company that is cash heavy agree to pay more now in order to get an advance?


    Octagon7711Excession
    "Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."  - SEANMCAD

  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Algo Star SystemMember RarePosts: 1,908
    edited September 17
    Citizentologists vs Alt-Flight

    You're all lunatics. Come back to the middle and just be a gamer.
    For the love of all that is good in gaming stop invoking Derek Smarts name. Please.
    Post edited by FlyByKnight on
    SedrynTyrosAsm0deusRexKushmanbartoni33rpmcmurphyOctagon7711CazrielMaxBacongir243MrMelGibsonand 2 others.
  • RockardRockard AthensMember UncommonPosts: 180
    Talk about butthurt....
  • KefoKefo London, ONMember EpicPosts: 3,014
    MaxBacon said:
    Kefo said:
    Are you that hard up for cash after raising over 150million dollars that you can't wait a few more months for your free money that's coming anyway or do you need to take out a loan that comes with strings?
    If you needed to be converting your dollars to pay your immediate costs in pounds, sure. Considering the financial gambles often done with this now due to the volatile GBP.

    And the rather obvious thing, companies would just not leave their money lying around in a bank account, that's known as losing money, the best practice is put it to use but that means you can only use part of it at any given time.
    No, companies wouldn't leave the money sitting in the bank but we aren't talking about money sitting in the bank are we?

    We are talking about CIG signing over all SQ42 assets to a bank to get an immediate loan which will come with its own fees and interest. Granted CIG gets back all assets once they pay back the loan but from the sounds of it the deal wasn't in CIG's favour
    MaxBaconExcessionGdemami
  • KumaponKumapon Member UncommonPosts: 952
    On the bright side, Star Citizen isn’t in a position to take an entire state’s economy down with it. Roberts still has a lot of monumental failing to do before he reaches Curt Schilling’s level.
    bartoni33
  • FrammshammFrammshamm TokyoMember UncommonPosts: 278


    On top of that, taking out loans is NOT a good sign after making so much money from crowdfunding. What happened to all that crowd funded money that required to take out a loan?


    Taking out loans is called leveraging. Its a great way to get high returns for your investors. Its also a valid way to fund a project that you dont want to lose control over by giving up equity.
  • FrammshammFrammshamm TokyoMember UncommonPosts: 278
    Kefo said:
    Garick said:
    Vrika said:
    Garick said:
    Didn't these /loans/ Turn out to be simply SC taking out money to use now based on their business credit from how EU handles big buisness over there?   Its not really a loan more than it is just taking advantage of a sure thing by using money now that the government is for certain going to pay back for you at a clear precise time.
    Taking a loan against your future income is really a loan.

    CIG's official explanation is that it was just a smart money management move, but we could have a 10 page debate as to whether CIG gave their real reason in that statement, or just carefully obfuscated the situation.



    Is it a loan? Or a free asset? I mean if I told you that 100% you would get 50,000 dollars in 3 months and you took a loan out now with the agreement that in 3 months it would be fully paid back with no use of your own money what so ever. Wouldn't that just be sensible? Rather than waiting 3 months to obtain money to enhance company growth you would just make use of it now to help speed up the process because you have promises to keep and ideals to achieve.
    Are you that hard up for cash after raising over 150million dollars that you can't wait a few more months for your free money that's coming anyway or do you need to take out a loan that comes with strings?
    you do realize that money now is greater than money in the future? Depending on your current tax situation, money now could be WAY better than money later.

  • KefoKefo London, ONMember EpicPosts: 3,014
    Kefo said:
    Garick said:
    Vrika said:
    Garick said:
    Didn't these /loans/ Turn out to be simply SC taking out money to use now based on their business credit from how EU handles big buisness over there?   Its not really a loan more than it is just taking advantage of a sure thing by using money now that the government is for certain going to pay back for you at a clear precise time.
    Taking a loan against your future income is really a loan.

    CIG's official explanation is that it was just a smart money management move, but we could have a 10 page debate as to whether CIG gave their real reason in that statement, or just carefully obfuscated the situation.



    Is it a loan? Or a free asset? I mean if I told you that 100% you would get 50,000 dollars in 3 months and you took a loan out now with the agreement that in 3 months it would be fully paid back with no use of your own money what so ever. Wouldn't that just be sensible? Rather than waiting 3 months to obtain money to enhance company growth you would just make use of it now to help speed up the process because you have promises to keep and ideals to achieve.
    Are you that hard up for cash after raising over 150million dollars that you can't wait a few more months for your free money that's coming anyway or do you need to take out a loan that comes with strings?
    you do realize that money now is greater than money in the future? Depending on your current tax situation, money now could be WAY better than money later.

    Do explain
  • lahnmirlahnmir UtrechtMember RarePosts: 888
    Bet OP stood in front of the mirror and spoke DSs name out loud three times. Now he won't leave the poor sod alone anymore forcing him to turn on SC.

    But really, you just traded one shady guy for another. At least CR once made a difference in gaming and is trying to do so again. I would say by any means necessary but others' mileage on that might vary.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 

  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy DublinMember RarePosts: 2,506


    On top of that, taking out loans is NOT a good sign after making so much money from crowdfunding. What happened to all that crowd funded money that required to take out a loan?


    Taking out loans is called leveraging. Its a great way to get high returns for your investors. Its also a valid way to fund a project that you dont want to lose control over by giving up equity.

    But there are no investors to get high returns for. Why would they be concerned about losing control over the project when they have taken $160 million up front and are apparently very affluent.

    KefoMaxBaconExcessionGdemami
  • LobotomistLobotomist ZagrebMember RarePosts: 5,636
    I can only thank Derek posting that when he did. Because it prompted me to ask for refund on my pledge.

    And now years after, it is clear he was right. If any game in history had rampant "Feature creep" it is Duke Nukem Forever and this one...heh

    I would be really surprised to see this ever released in any form that resembles good game.


    But of course it will be released as early access on steam , since you can release even two lines of code today and call it that. Just to continue getting money.

    And than it will sit like that for years. Until they stop getting pledges.
    Thomas2006Asm0deusGdemamiRobsolf



  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 7,956
    Ohh ... doom .. gloom ...

    90 days ....

    tops...



    Have fun
    ExcessionTalonsinAsm0deus
  • FrammshammFrammshamm TokyoMember UncommonPosts: 278
    Kefo said:
    Kefo said:
    Garick said:
    Vrika said:
    Garick said:
    Didn't these /loans/ Turn out to be simply SC taking out money to use now based on their business credit from how EU handles big buisness over there?   Its not really a loan more than it is just taking advantage of a sure thing by using money now that the government is for certain going to pay back for you at a clear precise time.
    Taking a loan against your future income is really a loan.

    CIG's official explanation is that it was just a smart money management move, but we could have a 10 page debate as to whether CIG gave their real reason in that statement, or just carefully obfuscated the situation.



    Is it a loan? Or a free asset? I mean if I told you that 100% you would get 50,000 dollars in 3 months and you took a loan out now with the agreement that in 3 months it would be fully paid back with no use of your own money what so ever. Wouldn't that just be sensible? Rather than waiting 3 months to obtain money to enhance company growth you would just make use of it now to help speed up the process because you have promises to keep and ideals to achieve.
    Are you that hard up for cash after raising over 150million dollars that you can't wait a few more months for your free money that's coming anyway or do you need to take out a loan that comes with strings?
    you do realize that money now is greater than money in the future? Depending on your current tax situation, money now could be WAY better than money later.

    Do explain
    Using the formula to determine the present value: 

    Present Value Formula


     The answer tells us that receiving $1,000 in 20 years is the equivalent of receiving $148.64 today, if the time value of money is 10% per year compounded annually.


    Even using the shitty ass prime interest rate compounded tells you the same , just not as disparate result.
    Gdemami
  • cheyanecheyane EarthMember EpicPosts: 4,787
    I have my doubts about Star Citizen and the condition and features it will release if it does release but Derek Smart is a jealous man who hates Chris Roberts. His motivations are pure envy and jealousy so I cannot give him much credence but that does not mean I trust Chris Roberts not to mismanage or fail either.
    bartoni33MrMelGibson
    image
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Chicago, ILMember EpicPosts: 5,711
    Seeing another players facial expressions, using the toilet, buying a pricey ship who's main function is to look good in open world PvP, and showing a live demo in which a rover can't board a ship without blowing up.  Not the best series of events, imo.  They better do a lot better at the next convention for the sake of the game.
    kikoodutroa8

    "Change is the only constant."

  • kikoodutroa8kikoodutroa8 grenobleMember UncommonPosts: 316
    Seeing another players facial expressions, using the toilet, buying a pricey ship who's main function is to look good in open world PvP, and showing a live demo in which a rover can't board a ship without blowing up.  Not the best series of events, imo.  They better do a lot better at the next convention for the sake of the game.
    They showed many groundbreaking tech at gamecon, you probably don't understand game devlopement.
    This gameplay video should make you see the light:


    ExcessionGdemami
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy DublinMember RarePosts: 2,506
    edited September 17
    Kefo said:
    Kefo said:
    Garick said:
    Vrika said:
    Garick said:
    Didn't these /loans/ Turn out to be simply SC taking out money to use now based on their business credit from how EU handles big buisness over there?   Its not really a loan more than it is just taking advantage of a sure thing by using money now that the government is for certain going to pay back for you at a clear precise time.
    Taking a loan against your future income is really a loan.

    CIG's official explanation is that it was just a smart money management move, but we could have a 10 page debate as to whether CIG gave their real reason in that statement, or just carefully obfuscated the situation.



    Is it a loan? Or a free asset? I mean if I told you that 100% you would get 50,000 dollars in 3 months and you took a loan out now with the agreement that in 3 months it would be fully paid back with no use of your own money what so ever. Wouldn't that just be sensible? Rather than waiting 3 months to obtain money to enhance company growth you would just make use of it now to help speed up the process because you have promises to keep and ideals to achieve.
    Are you that hard up for cash after raising over 150million dollars that you can't wait a few more months for your free money that's coming anyway or do you need to take out a loan that comes with strings?
    you do realize that money now is greater than money in the future? Depending on your current tax situation, money now could be WAY better than money later.

    Do explain
    Using the formula to determine the present value: 

    Present Value Formula


     The answer tells us that receiving $1,000 in 20 years is the equivalent of receiving $148.64 today, if the time value of money is 10% per year compounded annually.


    Even using the shitty ass prime interest rate compounded tells you the same , just not as disparate result.

    This loan is like a 6 month advance or something tiny, it's equivalent to a payday loan when it comes to business.

    The issue here is that the games were meant to be fully funded at around $65 million, at around $130 million they started talking about how important it was for the community to keep supporting them (aka funding them), at $145 million they talked about SQ42 financing SC if funding were to stop and all the while they continue to sell ridiculously priced concept art which only gets more expensive as they get closer to being usable.

    When you get conflicting messages people are bound to wonder what is going on.
    Post edited by rpmcmurphy on
    ScotchUp
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