PSA: The $45,000 refund was fake - updated

MaxBaconMaxBacon Figueira da FozMember EpicPosts: 4,079
edited September 15 in Star Citizen
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/09/tired-of-waiting-star-citizen-guild-gets-a-45000-refund/

Developers say a Star Citizen guild did not get $45,000 refund. 
"Cloud Imperium spokesperson Dave Swofford tells Ars that "a lot of the information was fabricated" in the Reddit post discussed the below. Swofford says the account in question was issued an individual refund of $330, not the $45,000 claimed in posted screenshots and videos which Swofford says do not reflect actual complaints requests logged by the company. What's more, Swofford says the refund was handled "in a timely fashion" with "no extended debate over whether we should."
edit. And this article on PC Gamer:
The Reddit post contains a number of screenshots of correspondence between the poster and CIG's customer service department detailing the refund process, however: "The screenshots do not represent the actual communications which were shared to and from our support department," the CIG representative wrote. "So no…there’s nothing to it at all. There is no story."

...a refund was issued recently to one customer, but in the amount of $330. I asked if it appeared this was the same customer, and if this customer had perhaps doctored the correspondence to make it appear as if the amount refunded was $45,000. The response I got was: "Yes to the first. Yes to the second…as best as we can tell."
edit. Right after CIG's reaction and the media intent to contact who claimed the refund, the poster deleted account.

And this is a great example of how much crap made to look legitimate is fabricated here, now here it is CIG officially reacts and states that the details of that refund were faked. This also tells about the refunds sub credibility when the admins claimed they personally verified the legitimacy of that refund...

Post edited by MaxBacon on
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Comments

  • CoticCotic Member UncommonPosts: 93
    edited September 14



    --

    P.S One employee who is director of PR, not really a developer or multiple developers :)
    Post edited by Cotic on
    alkarionlog
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Nashville, TNMember EpicPosts: 2,407
    edited September 14
    MaxBacon said:
    https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/09/tired-of-waiting-star-citizen-guild-gets-a-45000-refund/

    Developers say a Star Citizen guild did not get $45,000 refund. 

    "Cloud Imperium spokesperson Dave Swofford tells Ars that "a lot of the information was fabricated" in the Reddit post discussed the below. Swofford says the account in question was issued an individual refund of $330, not the $45,000 claimed in posted screenshots and videos which Swofford says do not reflect actual complaints requests logged by the company. What's more, Swofford says the refund was handled "in a timely fashion" with "no extended debate over whether we should."

    And this is a great example of how much crap made to look legitimate is fabricated here, now here it is CIG officially reacts and states that the details of that refund were faked. This also tells about the refunds sub credibility when the admins claimed they personally verified the legitimacy of that refund...
    Glad to see Ars gave both perspectives, calling out the pettiness of faking such a refund while simultaneously acknowledging that there are backers and non-backers alike who are wary of the feature creep.  The github tracker, is that the goons tracker that was shared here?
    Post edited by MadFrenchie on
    CoticTorval

    image
  • NycteliosNyctelios Novo Hamburgo - RS - BrazilMember EpicPosts: 2,248
    People don't have anything better to do other than create meaningless drama to fill their ego.

    "That's why we can't have nice things".
    MaxBaconConstantineMerus

    " Tawnos's blueprints were critical to the creation of my armor. As he once sealed himself in steel, I sealed myself in a walking crypt. "
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    - Steam ID Discord ID: Night # 6102
  • CoticCotic Member UncommonPosts: 93
    edited September 14
    The Star Citizen sub is celebrating this as proof the /r/starcitizen_refunds are all trolls but forgetting that everybody has been trolled by this individual.
    Post edited by Cotic on
    Kyleran
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Figueira da FozMember EpicPosts: 4,079
    edited September 14
    Glad to see Ars gave both perspectives, calling out the pettiness of faking such a refund while simultaneously acknowledging that there are backers and non-backers alike who are wary of the feature creep.  The github tracker, is that the goons tracker that was shared here?
    This is the thing when goons and overall trolls get involved to mess things up, you don't know what is real and what is not, and yes the same one. Some people get caught up in the middle unaware of this and think it's all legitimate information.

    Cotic said:
    The Star Citizen sub is celebrating this as proof the /r/starcitizen_refunds are all trolls but forgetting that everybody has been trolled by this individual.
    It's not one individual, this has been ongoing and that's only the KNOWN ones that were proven fake, how much of it is real and how much of it is fabricated, impossible to tell.
    Post edited by MaxBacon on
    Kyleranrpmcmurphy
  • KhegobierKhegobier Madison, ALMember UncommonPosts: 8
    Cotic said:

    P.S One employee who is director of PR, not really a developer or multiple developers :)
    Why would a developer or multiple developers have customer financial transaction information to disseminate to the public versus... you know... a "Public Relations" employee?
  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 26,256
    Amazing how much effort people will go to smear this game.

    Who has this sort of time to devote to this sort of thing and to what gain? 
    ErillionMadFrenchieMaxBaconFlyByKnightTorvalNycteliosDaranar

    On hiatus from EVE Online since Dec 2016 - Screw off-grid PVE boosting changes

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.

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    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon


  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Nashville, TNMember EpicPosts: 2,407
    MaxBacon said:
    Glad to see Ars gave both perspectives, calling out the pettiness of faking such a refund while simultaneously acknowledging that there are backers and non-backers alike who are wary of the feature creep.  The github tracker, is that the goons tracker that was shared here?
    This is the thing when goons and overall trolls get involved to mess things up, you don't know what is real and what is not, and yes the same one. Some people get caught up in the middle unaware of this and think it's all legitimate information.

    Cotic said:
    The Star Citizen sub is celebrating this as proof the /r/starcitizen_refunds are all trolls but forgetting that everybody has been trolled by this individual.
    It's not one individual, this has been ongoing and that's only the KNOWN ones that were proven fake, how much of it is real and how much of it is fabricated, impossible to tell.
    It's certainly frustrating because I'm interested in an earnest assessment of what's going on, and it's hard to find information, good or bad, that's not at least somewhat tainted by the person's feelings towards the game, CIG, or CR.

    Grr.
    MaxBaconTalonsinNyctelios

    image
  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYMember RarePosts: 2,164
    edited September 14
    When a hate for a game is this intense, there is obviously a severe agenda against SC and anyone involved in doing things like this needs mental help right away.

    Either they are getting paid to slander the game (which should be jail time or/and a huge fine), are Derek Smart fans (and if so, they need mental help) or they have a severe mental disorder.

    I have never seen a game get this much hate and slander against it, its borderline criminal and definitely if not criminal there is severe mental issues at play.

    Look at the star citizen forums for MMORPG.com, you get the same posters every day hating on the game...that is all they do...all day...post how much they hate star citizen and how its dead and vaporware. That is how they spend their day. Either they live the saddest lives imaginable, or they need severe mental treatment right away.

    I don't like EVE Online, but I don't waste all day or any time of my life posting how much it sucks and how much I hate it. That is useless and a waste of time, and anyone who does that needs severe mental treatment
    Post edited by TheScavenger on
    ExcessionAsm0deusFrodoFragins

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    https://www.youtube.com/user/Vendayn


  • frostymugfrostymug Galveston, TXMember UncommonPosts: 344
    It's interesting how many people suddenly believe the PR guy from the company that has only been on the up and up and completely open with no more proof than just his own word.

    Then again, that is how shit gets written off on this game all the time. It really comes down to whether you completely and blindly believe CR/CIG or question anything. If you completely believe them, then whatever they say is deemed proof enough. If you question, you need a verified, independent, third party source with undeniable and triple verified information.

    Otherwise, the baby is thrown out with the bathwater and you are DS's alt. It's every argument here. "Your assumptions are completely wrong, but here is the absolute truth based on other assumptions that I like better".

    I want to like this game; however, it is just like a sports team that you want to like, but can't really stand their obnoxious, all knowing fans so you half hope they fail.
    KyleranforcelimaKefo
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Figueira da FozMember EpicPosts: 4,079
    edited September 14
    It's certainly frustrating because I'm interested in an earnest assessment of what's going on, and it's hard to find information, good or bad, that's not at least somewhat tainted by the person's feelings towards the game, CIG, or CR.

    Grr.
    It's frustrating alright, that's why I have to run under the assumption the information is fake until/if there is stuff to back it up because as said, we just can't tell what is real and what is not when it's all mixed up like that, but this one really managed to deceive me, very well crafted.

    The guy now deleted his account, the damage was done, this is harmful because of how widely it got reported, the media didn't even care to reach the guy to ensure legitimacy before reporting.

    frostymug said:
    It's interesting how many people suddenly believe the PR guy from the company that has only been on the up and up and completely open with no more proof than just his own word.
    He deleted his account right after CIG made the statement, speaks for itself. I myself believed that refund was real.

    Post edited by MaxBacon on
    KyleranExcessionMellowTigger
  • frostymugfrostymug Galveston, TXMember UncommonPosts: 344
    MaxBacon said:
    It's certainly frustrating because I'm interested in an earnest assessment of what's going on, and it's hard to find information, good or bad, that's not at least somewhat tainted by the person's feelings towards the game, CIG, or CR.

    Grr.
    It's frustrating alright, that's why I have to run under the assumption the information is fake until/if there is stuff to back it up because as said, we just can't tell what is real and what is not when it's all mixed up like that, but this one really managed to deceive me, very well crafted.

    The guy now deleted his account, the damage was done, this is harmful because of how widely it got reported, the media didn't even care to reach the guy to ensure legitimacy before reporting.

    frostymug said:
    It's interesting how many people suddenly believe the PR guy from the company that has only been on the up and up and completely open with no more proof than just his own word.
    He deleted his account right after CIG made the statement, speaks for itself.

    And to counter your argument, I myself believed that refund was real, so not the "oh lul negative stuff all fake you're ds alt" you're implying (speaking for myself).


    I know you never invoke DS's name out of the blue here for anything. Or counter assumptions with assumptions you like better. No need to get personally defensive.

    What are your team colors, by the way?
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Figueira da FozMember EpicPosts: 4,079
    edited September 14
    frostymug said:
    What are your team colors, by the way?


    (still WIP on the org flag)
    Post edited by MaxBacon on
    TorvalNyctelios
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko JohannesburgMember EpicPosts: 6,540
    The "truth" is whatever you want it to be.

    Whatever you want to believe, google will help you find people that agree with you ! :D 
    CalavryRoin
  • frostymugfrostymug Galveston, TXMember UncommonPosts: 344
    MaxBacon said:
    frostymug said:
    What are your team colors, by the way?


    (still WIP on the org flag)
    You should create a flagpole jpeg cash shop while you continue the work on the flag
  • ExcessionExcession NottinghamMember RarePosts: 709
    Typical internet version of "he said/she said"

    refund guy claims he got a refund for x amount, shows evidence.

    sc guy claims the refund amount is false, evidence given is fake, but does not/can not show any evidence to back it up.

    SC fans will believe SC guy, SC doubters will believe refund guy.

    Rest of world will laugh and carry on.
    forcelima

    A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.

  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Algo Star SystemMember RarePosts: 1,909
    I don't play favorites.

    If people are really going this far to fabricate Star Citizen looking shaky (when there's more than enough real info available) then they're 10x worse than the people I refer to as Citizentologists. All a stunt like this does is substantiate the claims of conspiracy from the fringe backers.

    Now I need a funny name to classify the dummies who did this. Stay tuned.

    P.S. To the people who say folks like this are paid to slander Star Citizen, who benefits the most from the slander?  Is there some rival kickstarter space game coming out? Makes for a great movie though...




    bartoni33
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Nashville, TNMember EpicPosts: 2,407
    I don't play favorites.

    If people are really going this far to fabricate Star Citizen looking shaky (when there's more than enough real info available) then they're 10x worse than the people I refer to as Citizentologists. All a stunt like this does is substantiate the claims of conspiracy from the fringe backers.

    Now I need a funny name to classify the dummies who did this. Stay tuned.

    P.S. To the people who say folks like this are paid to slander Star Citizen, who benefits the most from the slander?  Is there some rival kickstarter space game coming out? Makes for a great movie though...




    That definitely looks like a movie that Harrison Ford and Gary Oldman immediately regretted being a part of.  :D
    bartoni33

    image
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Figueira da FozMember EpicPosts: 4,079
    edited September 14
    P.S. To the people who say folks like this are paid to slander Star Citizen, who benefits the most from the slander?  Is there some rival kickstarter space game coming out? Makes for a great movie though...
    Quoting Queen: "Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?"

    What's the benefit you ask? Do they want to feel important for unmasking some great conspiracy that doesn't exist? Whatever it is, it shows no lack of motivation.
    Post edited by MaxBacon on
  • TalonsinTalonsin Member EpicPosts: 3,340
    MaxBacon said:

    What's the benefit you ask? Do they want to feel important for unmasking some great conspiracy that doesn't exist? Whatever it is, it shows no lack of motivation.
    LOL, you need to slow down a bit and think about your wording.  It shows plenty of "motivation", what it lacks is imagination.
    "Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."  - SEANMCAD

  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 208
    edited September 14
    In case someone missed the post on reddit with the evidences (whether they're genuine or forged I have no idea):




    A video showing the user refreshing the page in an attempt to prove that the documents were genuine: https://gfycat.com/complicatedopenleonberger

    Post edited by francis_baud on
  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Long Island, NYMember RarePosts: 982
    Excession said:
    Typical internet version of "he said/she said"

    refund guy claims he got a refund for x amount, shows evidence.

    sc guy claims the refund amount is false, evidence given is fake, but does not/can not show any evidence to back it up.

    SC fans will believe SC guy, SC doubters will believe refund guy.

    Rest of world will laugh and carry on.
    Ya, I saw no proof provided by SC other than they said it didn't happen that way.

    Sorry but their words are hollow.
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Figueira da FozMember EpicPosts: 4,079
    edited September 15
    Ya, I saw no proof provided by SC other than they said it didn't happen that way.

    Sorry but their words are hollow.
    CIG wouldn't risk a lie here, if it was real it would be easy to prove CIG lied here.

    Simply with a media outlet supervising a review of the tickets, even if CIG deleted them the emails would still exist and be able to prove it.

    And that was their intention

    Some media people say they're going to contact the backer to get his official side of the story.

    But right after he just deletes his account... Coincidence? I think not.

    Post edited by MaxBacon on
    TorvalGdemami
  • postofficetcuppostofficetcup Member CommonPosts: 4
    edited September 15
    Max Bacon makes strong points but the hate for SC is so much they just ignore common sense and logic. Its like the anti SC goons dont care if what they are doing is right or wrong, they just want SC to burn so they can appear correct in going against SC and inflate their ego even more. I really want to thank you MaxBacon for taking the time to AID against the smear campaigns. I dont ever post here but every time I read your posts I can tell you take tons of time and research to create a well thought out post, and I had to post today to say thank you.

    I have had my doubts about SC and I have my dreams, you help keep the dreams CIG promised alive, since you make it easy to find such great details during such despicable times where people go as far to create fraudulent refund conspiracies. I look forward to reading your future posts where you obviously obliterate the pessimistic hopeful bunch that will grab any thread they can to cause SC to lose funding in hopes of the game never completing.
    Post edited by postofficetcup on
    Gdemamirpmcmurphy
  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Long Island, NYMember RarePosts: 982
    Max Bacon makes strong points but the hate for SC is so much they just ignore common sense and logic. Its like the anti SC goons dont care if what they are doing is right or wrong, they just want SC to burn so they can appear correct in going against SC and inflate their ego even more. I really want to thank you MaxBacon for taking the time to AID against the smear campaigns. I dont ever post here but every time I read your posts I can tell you take tons of time and research to create a well thought out post, and I had to post today to say thank you.

    I have had my doubts about SC and I have my dreams, you help keep the dreams CIG promised alive, since you make it easy to find such great details during such despicable times where people go as far to create fraudulent refund conspiracies. I look forward to reading your future posts where you obviously obliterate the pessimistic hopeful bunch that will grab any thread they can to cause SC to lose funding in hopes of the game never completing.
    CR/SC is fulfilling that last sentence all by themselves...lol


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