Yeah, as I read Eldrians posts I thought we play for so very different reasons.
I'm far more interested in having a good time, especially if I can help others while doing so.
I'm guessing Eldrian believes the best way to help his team to is be the best he can personally be whereas for me its equally important (and perhaps more so) to assist other members of my team, likely why I favor support roles.
Narius will call both of us chumps because for him only his goals matter.
Of course. I don't see why i can't enjoy entertainment products as I see fit.
BTW, isn't that what you think too? The only difference is that you care about other players, and they are pretty much just NPCs to me.
It is certainly your prerogative to care about other players. However, you cannot ask for reciprocation. No one is under any obligation to play your way in an online game.
No, there's very little in your line of reasoning i can fathom without turning to psychology textbooks.
I suspect you are one of those drivers who will zoom past a long line of cars and then cut in at the last second. I don't understand those people either.
I think the Brits have a good expression for it.
Bad form.
That is because you make the erroneous assumption that everyone needs to be like you. A mistake I do not make. It is pretty easy to see that some people are just mean, some are always nice, some are in-between, depending on their mood.
Surely, a psy textbook (or better yet, scientific paper) will help. But individual heterogeneity is pretty much a well documented phenomenon in behavioral science.
Actually i don't do the car zooming thing much ... certainly not out of concern of my fellow man. I worry someone pull a gun because of road rage. In America, particularly a red state, you need to be careful.
Finally, don't get me wrong. There is a social contract with consequences. I always play nice at the work place and genuinely make friends. But playing online games for 20 min? I wouldn't bother. i bet you can find a paper to understand that.
You are not unusual, only when there is a risk of real world consequences do you care.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
In a either or definition of player skill vs gear, I think there is a large grey area that overlaps. For example it is often ignored that obtaining gear is much dependent on what the player does (soft player skills), and so gear is not automatic but a result of the players actions and choices.
There are a bunch of these softer player skills in play, of which I will list a few. Social skill - How well can the player form connections and use those to get help or information. Also increased chance to be invited to do stuff with others. Knowledge - How well do the player know the game and use this to take informed/smart decisions. What gear is possible to get with how much effort, which steps are necessary to finish, how hard are the fights, can I take an alternative route to avoid.., do I need fire resist, I hear bringing a [class] (with skill) increase success chance, last time I was in that area there were [things] which I am now prepared for. Experience - How well does the player react to situations on combat, based on previous encounters. Twitch skills is of course one thing, but also medium to long term tactical combat decisions, combat optimizations (crossing over into knowledge), if I engage these they will likely path around this rock and not aggro.., oups I messed up but if I die over here my group will survive, I need to kill the roamer or it will add midfight, these type of mob usually resist [spell] so I better, these mob goes for healers so we need to position.., etc.
Of course some or much of these details are lost in many modern mmo, so maybe soft player skills does not play such a high role anymore..adding to that gear being obtainable with little effort, and so we have the idea (reality) that gear is not coupled with player skill. Problem seem to be right now player skill is one sided thinking and only advancing as action based skills, because of (and in return causing) less soft player skills.
I know of no game where you can initiate combat, do nothing, and still win because your character is strong enough. They might exist, I don't know, but I'd imagine they'd be extremely boring.
Apparently, you've never played ArcheAge or Black Desert Online. Gear in those games is by far the most important factor in determining the outcome of a fight. Besides, if gear wasn't important in any game, the term P2W wouldn't exist.
ArcheAge is honestly low on the scale of stat gap. I mean it's ridiculously high in comparison to a true PvP sandbox, but low in comparison to other themeparks. Your attacks may do laughable damage but at least they land. In most themeparks, if the level gap is 10 or higher they won't even hit.
Ofc, I prefer that there's a balance of both, but if I had to choose? Player skill, definitely. Look, I like the likes of Dark Souls, Vermintide etc for a reason. To me, the gear dependent model is horribly antiquated. It was in place because programming languages were fairly infant(compared to today) and computers...were like 1% of today's computers. Should it exist? Yes. But more of a Diablo 3 Uniques(modify skill etc) than pure stat inflation. Still...the lack of either bothers me greatly.
Type of mechanic had little if anything to do with the programming language's limitations or computer power (Pong, anyone?). Action games were as easily produced as gear based.
The choice was, as always, how much you enjoy twitch/physical performance. Some of us have simply preferred turn based or slow action combat.
As you say, both should exist and in many mixtures.
PVP is completely pointless when undergeared players stand no chance despite playing better.
This, and the replies to it, are too myopic. There certainly can be meaningful reason to play out that scenario. Perhaps the weaker players will eventually wear down the stronger, through player skill or gear progression; see Eve. Perhaps the weaker players slowly strenghthen themselves through facing tough opponents; see any game with PVP XP.
In these cases even though the weaklings arent succeeding through skill or gear, they win via determination (often measured in length of neckbeard).
I'm not a PvP fan. If I were to PvP, I would rather skill be the defining factor rather than gear, so that victory be based more on merit than numbers.
Comments
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
For example it is often ignored that obtaining gear is much dependent on what the player does (soft player skills), and so gear is not automatic but a result of the players actions and choices.
There are a bunch of these softer player skills in play, of which I will list a few.
Social skill - How well can the player form connections and use those to get help or information. Also increased chance to be invited to do stuff with others.
Knowledge - How well do the player know the game and use this to take informed/smart decisions. What gear is possible to get with how much effort, which steps are necessary to finish, how hard are the fights, can I take an alternative route to avoid.., do I need fire resist, I hear bringing a [class] (with skill) increase success chance, last time I was in that area there were [things] which I am now prepared for.
Experience - How well does the player react to situations on combat, based on previous encounters. Twitch skills is of course one thing, but also medium to long term tactical combat decisions, combat optimizations (crossing over into knowledge), if I engage these they will likely path around this rock and not aggro.., oups I messed up but if I die over here my group will survive, I need to kill the roamer or it will add midfight, these type of mob usually resist [spell] so I better, these mob goes for healers so we need to position.., etc.
Of course some or much of these details are lost in many modern mmo, so maybe soft player skills does not play such a high role anymore..adding to that gear being obtainable with little effort, and so we have the idea (reality) that gear is not coupled with player skill. Problem seem to be right now player skill is one sided thinking and only advancing as action based skills, because of (and in return causing) less soft player skills.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
The choice was, as always, how much you enjoy twitch/physical performance. Some of us have simply preferred turn based or slow action combat.
As you say, both should exist and in many mixtures.
In these cases even though the weaklings arent succeeding through skill or gear, they win via determination (often measured in length of neckbeard).