The MMO definition has evolved and the old definition no longer applies

13

Comments

  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member UncommonPosts: 259
    klash2def said:
    Akulas said:
    If it doesn't have many people online that I can interact with and a character I can roleplay the it's not an MMORPG.
    I'm part of a RP group in Destiny. FYI..

    XBOX1 has this thing called "Clubs" people can join which is literally groups with thousands of people in them that share the same type of hobbies in gaming.. there are groups for people who enjoy high level competition in Madden, There are Groups for People who Enjoy RP, groups for people who enjoy FPS only games like COD.. just wanted to put that out there.

    Whenever I play destiny 9/10 im playing people who RP as well. 
    That's the thing about role-play. It is a factor of the players, not the game. It is a matter of action, rather than declaration. It is function, not form.

    Any game regardless of declared genre is a RPG for any that chose to role-play in it, and likewise no game is for those that don't.
  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaMember EpicPosts: 13,114
    I would rather see passionate gamer's have DISCUSSION about gaming and game ideas than see BS endorsement threads.

    looks up at forum title "discussions".

    When i see BS threads like "5 things we like about" that is a one way agenda to endorsement,that is not OPINIONS just a biased agenda to kiss ass of potential or affiliated gaming studios.

    I can take my favorite mmorpg and give you a list of things i don't like or want improved,this site NEVER does that or VERY seldom,they carefully choose their words as to make sure the cons are not serious.
    Thousands of threads on games,when is the last time this site talked about intrusive cash shops and unfair prices?So yeah before pointing fingers at gamer's with opinions,wake up,take a look around at the bullshit that is going on.
    Robokapp said:
    i left some food outside the fridge. it too evolved...but i'm not eating it.
    Ever hear about GRAFTING? Of course that would be a true evolved result,when people are talking mmo's evolving ,they likely draw conclusions from a point at which there has been ZERO evolving lol,like from WOW>>>to now,all clones.Name one modern mmorpg that doesn't have FAKE looking yellow markers over npc heads or markers on maps holding your hand?same old crap over and over.

    So keep the opinions coming,do not become agenda related robot sellouts.
    klash2def

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • klash2defklash2def Member RarePosts: 852
    edited September 3
    Man..gotta love all the people still thinking that the TERM mmo belongs to them. As if new gamers cant come after them and give the term a new meaning. You guys realize you dont own the term? That's what this seems to be boiling down to, the more responses I read from "old school" mmoers. Upset over a term people are using to describe their experience. 

    I always forget that's the nature of this place, somebody says "Hey I think this, based on my experience."  somebody else says "NO! you are stupid and wrong, you cant be a real gamer your opinion is stupid."   Stop acting so fragile and insulting people who have different opinions than yourself. 

    Just because the games being classified by people as MMOs are not "old school" like Everquest or UO, or even Vanilla wow does not make it less of a MMO. If games like Destiny, ESO and many others share all the same features of traditional MMOs, but they give it to you in a more streamlined way, I don't see the issue with calling it a MMO. Its your experience. 

    Is Destiny 1000 people a instance Massive? No.. but you do get to play online with multiple people. You do get to meet random people make friends and have your own adventures as your own Avatar. You do get raids, quests etc all the MMORPG tropes you get normally.

    You wont find many MMOs today that DO allow over 100 people per instance. When I asked people earlier to show me a mmo with really big instances, people pulled up games that are 15, 20 years old. Bro come on.. move on. That era is over and that's okay. 

    Again as I've said before Change is always met with resistance and resistance is created by people who cant let go of what it USED TO be..the old way of thinking, so quick to shut down new ideas..

    Games like Destiny, The Division, Albion Online, ESO, Star Citizen are all being called MMOs by different people.. Its not because the people saying so have NEVER PLAYED A OLD SCHOOL MMO BEFORE (stop this shit) they just realize where things may be going and can appreciate the MMO features these games have, even if its just 20 people in a instance, to have a MMO experience with 20 people, is still a MMO experience. 

    Stop this narrative like you guys only play WoW or DAOC with 1000 people at a time. You don't. Maybe there was a time 10 years ago sure but not now. Stop lying to yourself..the truth is you WISH it was still like that.. hell even I do as well, but I also know that era is gone and we should be focused on the next idea. Maybe implement some of the old ideas but def do it better, more improved. 

    In WoW, You play a Dungeon that's instanced with 5 people, a PVP map thats 40v40 or you play a raid that's instanced with 40 people. The only time there is a chance for 1000 people is in the main world and lets be honest.. nobody plays in the main world in these MMOs like that anymore, not even in WoW the MMO with the biggest user base. 1000 person instances just don't exist no matter how much you want it to. 

    I personally don't have a issue with smaller instanced MMOs because the term MMO is just that, a term to describe the type of features I like in games. I want to make my avatar, find loot, meet friends, RP, discover the lore of the world, explore the world and have fun. If Destiny allows me to do that with 100's of people, then that's a MMO experience to me in 2017. 

    The mmo experience isn't playing SWGemu in 2017. The MMO experience is streamlined now and its because most companies are not making games targeted at 35-40 year old people who still want to play Everquest and Runescape classic.. they are making MMOs for the console gamer aged 12-25 that's the real demographic they care about. Think about how a game like WoW changed over the years.. you may not like it now, but that's why its still here today. Vanilla WoW would be like EQ is today had they not took this route and stayed "Classic MMO" . They made changes to entice the next generation of users. Console users. 

    If you think about it, The console market is really whats influencing all this.. think about games like Neverwinter, FFXIV, DCUO..are those no longer MMOs because they are on console? Those games also have Instances with less than 100 people..so they arent MMOs right?

    No..they are MMOs. Only they were first to accept what's happening, and now games are just adding those MMO features and calling it something else.. but people who played MMOs will recognize it quickly. Whether you accept it or not is one thing, but you cannot deny the mmo parts of these games, some games like Destiny, or ESO have so much MMO you have to call them MMO... who cares about the number of people in a instance? That doesn't matter as long as there is still access to 1000's of people. Who cares how its instanced? Its the experience I care about.

    To the people calling people who think the MMO is changing the "Minority voices".. You know why WoW hasn't done classic WoW server yet? Because the market of gamers who want that compared to the experience they currently offer is too small! The people who cry about the bubble bursting and they want old school mmos back is very small compared to the entire picture. Stop acting like the only people who enjoy MMOs are people who played classic MMO games. You don't have to know what G4TV was in order to have a deep appreciation for MMOs in this era of Streamlined MMOs.. stop the bullshit! :smiley:
    Post edited by klash2def on
    TheScavengerExcessionKyleran
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  • RhoklawRhoklaw Ft. Bliss, TXMember EpicPosts: 5,235
    Iselin said:
    "An apple a day keeps the doctor away"




    You stole my argument! Haha, love you Iselin!

  • Viper482Viper482 Somewhere, FLMember RarePosts: 1,685
    The definition of  evolve is "to develop gradually, especially from a simple to a more complex form"


    Diluted would be a better word.


    Limnic
  • ForgrimmForgrimm Somewhere in TimeMember EpicPosts: 2,703
    klash2def said:
    To the people calling people who think the MMO is changing the "Minority voices".. You know why WoW hasn't done classic WoW server yet? Because the market of gamers who want that compared to the experience they currently offer is too small! The people who cry about the bubble bursting and they want old school mmos back is very small compared to the entire picture. Stop acting like the only people who enjoy MMOs are people who played classic MMO games. You don't have to know what G4TV was in order to have a deep appreciation for MMOs in this era of Streamlined MMOs.. stop the bullshit! :smiley:
    This is what's known as a Straw man. You're countering an argument that was never made in the first place. People here aren't saying anything bad about new games like Destiny 2. And they're not saying anything about people wanting a classic mmo experience. We're simply saying that we know how to properly classify things. Yes, it's a fact that classic style MMORPG's have waned in popularity and co-op multiplayer style games have vastly increased in popularity. That doesn't somehow magically make those newer, more popular games MMO's.

    When bands started playing a heavier, darker version of rock and roll, people called it heavy metal, because it was significantly different than the music before it. If people just lumped all bands with guitars and drums into the "rock and roll" category, then we'd be putting the Rolling Stones and Slayer together, when in reality they're very different styles.
    PhryTofkeTyranusPrimeScorchienChildoftheShadowsTuor7
  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIMember RarePosts: 9,128
    YOU LISTED MMORPGS OP! THEN WALL OF TEXT'D MMO BLAH. MMOS AND MMORPGS ARE NOT THE SAMETHING!
  • PhryPhry OxfordshireMember EpicPosts: 8,991
    bcbully said:
    YOU LISTED MMORPGS OP! THEN WALL OF TEXT'D MMO BLAH. MMOS AND MMORPGS ARE NOT THE SAMETHING!
    Don't be too surprised, after all, they can't tell the difference between an MMO and a MOBA. :p
    Cecropia
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember RarePosts: 27,395
    Forgrimm said:

    I don't like the topic because it's been beaten to death on here and there's nothing new for anyone to say about it
    wow wow wow .. isn't the primary strength of this forum "beating of the dead horse"?

    And it is not about you. Sure, you don't like the topic. So? I don't like MOBAs too. You don't see me writing to the CEO of riot and asking them to shut LoL down.

    It is a free world. Don't like the topic, read and post on another. It is not like you are forced to read this topic. 
    TheScavenger
  • postlarvalpostlarval Member EpicPosts: 1,647
    Forgrimm said:

    When bands started playing a heavier, darker version of rock and roll, people called it heavy metal, because it was significantly different than the music before it. If people just lumped all bands with guitars and drums into the "rock and roll" category, then we'd be putting the Rolling Stones and Slayer together, when in reality they're very different styles.
    There are people to this day that insist Led Zeppelin is heavy metal. Morons.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember RarePosts: 27,395
    Kyleran said:

    You could of course try to be better than those orher folks....

    Or not and be part of the problem.
    what problem? Isn't he just following the "let's beat the dead horse" tradition of this forum? 
  • coretex666coretex666 PragueMember RarePosts: 3,216
    klash2def said:
    No offense, OP, but I think the mods should really start locking some of the threads here.

    How many threads regarding what an MMO is does this forum need?

    WTF is an MMO, is Destiny 2 an MMO, MMO definition has evolved...just another weekend at mmorpg.com.
    Lock it for what? You can't handle somebody having a opinion that you don't share? 
    It has nothing to do with my opinion on the topic.

    I think locking or merging threads discussing the same topic appearing hours from each other would make the forum cleaner and the discussion less fragmented.

    I am visiting some other forums and it seems to be the standard there.
    Torval
  • borghive49borghive49 Pittsburgh, PAMember RarePosts: 327
    No offense, OP, but I think the mods should really start locking some of the threads here.

    How many threads regarding what an MMO is does this forum need?

    WTF is an MMO, is Destiny 2 an MMO, MMO definition has evolved...just another weekend at mmorpg.com.
    It is the same guy making all these threads Klash2def and Scavenger are the same person lol. Are these forums even moderated anymore? 
    coretex666
  • borghive49borghive49 Pittsburgh, PAMember RarePosts: 327
    edited September 3
    klash2def said:
    No offense, OP, but I think the mods should really start locking some of the threads here.

    How many threads regarding what an MMO is does this forum need?

    WTF is an MMO, is Destiny 2 an MMO, MMO definition has evolved...just another weekend at mmorpg.com.
    Lock it for what? You can't handle somebody having a opinion that you don't share? 
    This is exactly how you are lol. When people here try to express their view point, you just call them old farts and that time has passed us by. I hate to break it to you, but classic gaming is never going away. Twitch is full of streams playing classic games both MMOs and all kind of other genres. Your war on these forums against older style gaming is getting old, I really wish the mods would remove these stupid threads. 

    I think it is kind of funny how you are gushing all over WoW a few months ago, and now MMOs are a dying genre.

    edit: When are the moderators going to do something about these posters? They using nothing but ad hominem attacks and making multiple posts on the same subject. 
    Post edited by borghive49 on
    ConstantineMerus
  • TaiphozTaiphoz IrvineMember UncommonPosts: 344
    The meaning of MMO has never changed, the games themselves have changed, the definition remains the same, Massively (hundreds or thousands) Multiplayer ( at same time ) Online (net DUH!)

    Nothing about that has changed, what has changed are idiots calling games which at any one time only allow four people to play together an mmo, NO!.. Just NO!.

    this topic is beyond stupid.
    RhoklawMaurgrimGdemamiExcession
  • RhoklawRhoklaw Ft. Bliss, TXMember EpicPosts: 5,235
    I've been here for over a decade and in the past week, I've had to ignore 2 people. I blame the complete lunar eclipse.
    borghive49ConstantineMerusIselin

  • MaurgrimMaurgrim Member RarePosts: 817
    Just close this fars thread allready, nothing good will come of it.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 10,900
    edited September 4
    Taiphoz said:
    The meaning of MMO has never changed, the games themselves have changed
    Bad news for you is that language is descriptive, not prescriptive so when games change, meaning changes too.

    Indeed, the thread is beyond stupid...elementary school kids understand principles of etymology.
    Post edited by Gdemami on
    Kyleran
  • ExcessionExcession NottinghamMember RarePosts: 709
    Now onto the topic as that is what this thread is about

    The definition of MMOs just needs to be updated is all. Or maybe it stays as it is, and many MMOs then lose the "MMO" label. 

    Is the definition to remain Massively Multiplayer like the old times? While like I said, nothing massively multiplayer about 6 man dungeons in WoW or small instances, so that would then make WoW not an "MMO" by oldschool definitions. Along with many other co-op based themepark "MMOs" or any other "MMO" that heavily instances their game (like Star Citizen). 

    Or does the definition get updated and encompass a huge range of games? Many MMOs then keep their label, and games like Destiny 2 can officially be considered MMOs.
    MMO means Massively Multiplayer Online, the problem is not what those letters mean, it is how people like you try to apply them.

    For instance, you are trying to say WoW is not an MMORPG because it has some small instances.

    Those small instances do not change the fact that each WoW server can hold thousands of players at the same time, and those thousands of players can all run around the game world, interact with each other, and the whole game world, as they see fit.

    Personally, I say if a game cannot support at least hundreds of players per server, does not have a persistent world that those players can run around while interacting with other and the game world itself, then it is not an MMO. 
    Gdemami

    A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCMember LegendaryPosts: 10,205
    There's already a new term being used that captures MMOs and not-so-MMOs alike and would stop all these debates once you start using it too: Shared World.

    I still think this site should change it's named to sharedworlds.com.
    Rhoklaw
    You say you never compromise
    With the mystery tramp, but now you realize
    He's not selling any alibis
    As you stare into the vacuum of his eyes
    And say "Do you want to make a deal?"
  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member UncommonPosts: 84
    Using WoW and instanced dungeons as an example of changing from what an MMO is shows how little you even know. MMO = Massively Multiplayer Online. Very simple, very direct. If you can get a massive amount of people online on the same game at the same time where they interact with each other in the same world then it's an MMO. If you log in to a screen or world that is limited to a few people and the only time you interact with other people is through a queue system then it's not an MMO. Is it multiplayer? Absolutely no contest. Is it online? Without a doubt. You're just missing the key ingredient to finish it up, Massively. 20 or even 100 people is not massively multiplayer.

    It is very cut and dry, there is nothing confusing about it. The "old school" players are not the ones that need to let it rest and are not the ones "clinging". Just give it up already. You can't win.
    Rhoklaw
  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member UncommonPosts: 84
    klash2def said:
    Here is the thing... WoW allows in the open world for thousands or more people playing together in the same virtual world. THIS is what a morph is.

    Guild Wars one for example was not a MMORPG, it was a Cooperative Online RPG. Essentially a graphical lobby based RPG. Destiny is essentially a FPS with cooperative play, with a graphical lobby system. It is not a MMORPG, but what does that matter? I find that the need to classify a genre now is almost pointless.

    If Destiny is a MMO, then so is Call of Duty.

    MMORPG is not about the amount of players playing at once, it is more about the idea of a virtual world with thousands of people ABLE to play at once, hundred of which in the same area of a persistent online world. However even this line has been blurred so badly it is almost pointless to attempt to classify MMOs today.

    For example Crowfall is considered a MMORPG, however shares more in common with a MOBA than a MMORPG.

    Well that is my ramble on this. Just play what you enjoy... Genres only help you find games you may like.

    I agree with your point about its not about the number of people, its the idea of a virtual world.

    anyway.. playing absolver
    But you are not agreeing with him. He is stating that is ABSOLUTELY about the number of people. He's saying it's not about the number of people you are currently playing with, but the number of people you are at any time able to play with. In WoW you have the potential to group up with what? 1000 different players at any given time? Let that sink in.
  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member UncommonPosts: 84
    Forgrimm said:
    klash2def said:
    To the people calling people who think the MMO is changing the "Minority voices".. You know why WoW hasn't done classic WoW server yet? Because the market of gamers who want that compared to the experience they currently offer is too small! The people who cry about the bubble bursting and they want old school mmos back is very small compared to the entire picture. Stop acting like the only people who enjoy MMOs are people who played classic MMO games. You don't have to know what G4TV was in order to have a deep appreciation for MMOs in this era of Streamlined MMOs.. stop the bullshit! :smiley:

    When bands started playing a heavier, darker version of rock and roll, people called it heavy metal, because it was significantly different than the music before it. If people just lumped all bands with guitars and drums into the "rock and roll" category, then we'd be putting the Rolling Stones and Slayer together, when in reality they're very different styles.
    Spot on analogy.
    Gdemami
  • DrunkWolfDrunkWolf Member UncommonPosts: 1,323
    They have devolved, not evolved.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Nashville, TNMember EpicPosts: 2,801
    edited September 4
    Slightly changed the title since people may miss the point of the topic.

    As for the topic itself

    The other thing that MMOs do that they didn't before is small capped instances instead of an open world.

    Star Citizen, each "instance" has very few players in each one. That is by far not a massive multiplayer game...if someone is going by the old definition of MMO. However, people still regard it as an MMO however, because the definition itself has changed.
    I've mentioned this in response to you in another thread..  But from what I understand, 16 player caps per area instance are not the goal for SC...  It's just an unfinished MMO.  @MaxBacon or @Erillion can correct me if I'm wrong.
    Post edited by MadFrenchie on

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