Is Destiny 2 an MMO:Poll

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  • MaurgrimMaurgrim Member RarePosts: 814
    Torval said:
    Maurgrim said:
    some people are just salty that the term "mmo" got broader and now covers more games than the classic mmos of old.

    You can have 100k people on a single server or on 1000 servers and you will never be able to see everyone on your screen together. So yeah, the term mmo covers server capacity now more than it does "people on your screen". Otherwise mmos have never existed because you have never been able to play with everyone together.

    That is my opinion.

    So you are living in a city with 1 million inhabitants, you have a flat in a building within that city that 100 other people also live, does that mean by your logic that you are living in a village?, i mean you cant possibly see all the 1 million people at the same time but you regular see your 100 neighbours.
    If you can only ever interact with 100 at a time does it matter one way or the other what you call it? The fact isn't based in the name or description but in the actual situation. The 1M person pool defines an aspect of the nature of that interaction but not the scope.

    Say in theory you could pack 800 people in that apartment, but say the quality and magnitude of interaction decreases as population increases over 100, representing the affect of overcrowding on a server. You could get massive people in one place but then not be able to do the things possible when there were only 100 or less, but you could claim a larger scope. Does it matter that you can fit 800 people in the apartment if nothing productive can come of that?

    Now let's introduce a new actor. Let's say this new apartment can hold 10,000 people. This allows your city to grow to be 100M. The ratio of people you can interact with is the same. The actual mass you can interact with has grown by a factor of 100 though. Is the previous apartment numbers of 100 or even 800 massive by comparison? Could you call the previous game an MMO anymore?

    Maybe there's more to the massively part than just a number. Maybe it describes a number threshold and a quality of interaction among other things. I'm certainly not saying that numbers don't matter. I'm throwing out there that the "massively" that modifies multiplayer has more depth to it than a simple number.

    Albion's recent launch reminded me that standing in a sea of nameplates and avatars isn't fun. That was the only thing "massively" about the game. The quality of interaction was not there so what did it matter that several hundred people were there except they were sharing the same poor experience.
    Your point was well written, but my post were directed to the one I were quoting and his logic, not how I feel and think about the subject at hand.
    TorvalMrMelGibson
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember RarePosts: 27,395
    lol . this topic is still going strong. In fact, it is the most popular topic on the forum front page.

    I wonder if this debate will last much much longer than the amount of the time i will spend playing Destiny 2.

    Here is my question. Will you enjoyment of Destiny 2 changes, if it is classified as a MMO, or not?

    The answers should be fun!
  • cameltosiscameltosis ipswichMember EpicPosts: 1,670
    lol . this topic is still going strong. In fact, it is the most popular topic on the forum front page.

    I wonder if this debate will last much much longer than the amount of the time i will spend playing Destiny 2.

    Here is my question. Will you enjoyment of Destiny 2 changes, if it is classified as a MMO, or not?

    The answers should be fun!
    My enjoyment wouldn't change based on it's classification - I still wouldn't like it. 

    My enjoyment would change if it actually was an MMO - I would probably play it if it were an MMO, but because it isn't, I won't. 
    jimmywolfGdemami
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember RarePosts: 27,395

    My enjoyment wouldn't change based on it's classification - I still wouldn't like it. 

    My enjoyment would change if it actually was an MMO - I would probably play it if it were an MMO, but because it isn't, I won't. 
    That is too bad.

    People only like MMO (using the traditional definition used by you .. as opposed to the more "liberal" classification used by this site) won't have many AAA games to play.

    For me, Destiny 2 is a fabulous shooter RPG. I probably will enjoy it for may be a couple of weeks. So many new nice games to play from this to the Dishonored DLC. It is a great time for gamers who are not shackled by the need of traditional MMOs. 
    MrMelGibson
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 14,758
    lol . this topic is still going strong. In fact, it is the most popular topic on the forum front page.

    I wonder if this debate will last much much longer than the amount of the time i will spend playing Destiny 2.

    Here is my question. Will you enjoyment of Destiny 2 changes, if it is classified as a MMO, or not?

    The answers should be fun!
    My enjoyment wouldn't change based on it's classification - I still wouldn't like it. 

    My enjoyment would change if it actually was an MMO - I would probably play it if it were an MMO, but because it isn't, I won't. 

    Maybe they'll make Borderlands 3 an MMO.
    ConstantineMerusMrMelGibson
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  • cameltosiscameltosis ipswichMember EpicPosts: 1,670

    My enjoyment wouldn't change based on it's classification - I still wouldn't like it. 

    My enjoyment would change if it actually was an MMO - I would probably play it if it were an MMO, but because it isn't, I won't. 
    That is too bad.

    People only like MMO (using the traditional definition used by you .. as opposed to the more "liberal" classification used by this site) won't have many AAA games to play.

    For me, Destiny 2 is a fabulous shooter RPG. I probably will enjoy it for may be a couple of weeks. So many new nice games to play from this to the Dishonored DLC. It is a great time for gamers who are not shackled by the need of traditional MMOs. 
    I have plenty of games to play and I'm not fussy on the age of the game either, so I have decades worth of AAA to play through. Currently going through FF9 again, before that I went through GTA5 again, before that Mad Max. I don't struggle to find games to play. 


    However, I struggle to find MMOs worth playing. I don't like shooters as a general rule and I didn't like the Halo games, so Bungie were always going to struggle to attract me to Destiny and Destiny 2. 

    But, if they'd made them actual MMOs, then I would have been interested. As it is a small scale quest and loot grinder....not my thing. Perhaps if the IP had been more interesting I might have given it a go and just treated it like a single player game, but I don't even like the IP. (Anthem, on the other hand, has a great IP from the little we've seen. If EA wasn't involved, I'd try that). 
  • XxxusernametakenxxxXxxusernametakenxxx Member UncommonPosts: 127
    Oh come on we get enough identity politic garbage in real life do we really need to bring it to video games?

    The simple answer OP is Destiny 2 is a video game who cares what label you need to put on it to feel important. 
  • Kane72Kane72 Member UncommonPosts: 201
    The thing is, does I really matter?  You are either going to play the game for what it is or you are not.  Hopefully no-one buys a game without doing their homework, so does it make any difference whether you think it is an MMO or not, only that you enjoy it (like I do on the PS4) or you do not.
  • cameltosiscameltosis ipswichMember EpicPosts: 1,670
    Kane72 said:
    The thing is, does I really matter?  You are either going to play the game for what it is or you are not.  Hopefully no-one buys a game without doing their homework, so does it make any difference whether you think it is an MMO or not, only that you enjoy it (like I do on the PS4) or you do not.
    This is a common argument - does it really matter?

    The short answer is that for most people, no, it doesn't make a damn bit of difference. Most people have never played an actual MMO. Those that have played an actual MMO probably haven't participated in anything massively multiplayer. Chances are, the actual MMO they played didn't even have many/any massively multiplayer features. 

    So, for most people, they couldn't give a shit - the features in the game are all they care about, it makes no difference to then whether they're solo, instanced in small groups, or part of a proper server with a community. For most people, their gameplay experience is barely going to change based on the number of people around them. 


    However, for those of us who do want actual MMOs, of course it matters. I haven't found an MMO worth playing for the last four years. The old ones I used to like are either dead, dying, or have been nerfed into oblivion. The new ones are too easy and dumbed down right out of the gate. 

    So, I spend a lot of time looking for a new MMO to play. I read this site and MOP every day, hoping for new information on upcoming MMOs or existing MMOs to see whether anything is worth playing. 


    When these sites mis-label a game as an MMO when it really isn't (like destiny), it directly wastes my time. Sometimes, it's pretty obvious so you only waste 5 minutes on an article before realising it's not an MMO. Other times, it might be months of reading previews / new articles before it becomes clear its not an MMO. 

    I don't like having my time wasted. I especially don't like having my time wasted deliberately in order to generate money for someone else (which is the reason mmorpg.com and massivelyop.com mislabel games). 


    CecropiaIselinTuor7
  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Long Island, NYMember RarePosts: 1,051
    Its MASSIVE......
    Its MULTIPLAYER........
    Its ONLINE........

    All words that describe something.....what is that something?
    MikehaPhry
  • ShodanasShodanas PatrasMember RarePosts: 1,851
    Destiny II is a co-op multiplayer game.
  • cameltosiscameltosis ipswichMember EpicPosts: 1,670
    Its MASSIVE......
    Its MULTIPLAYER........
    Its ONLINE........

    All words that describe something.....what is that something?
    Destiny 2 is indeed a massive multiplayer online game. 

    Destiny 2 is not a massively multiplayer online game. 

    Those two extra letters make a big difference. 
    ConstantineMerusIselinGdemamiCecropiaPhry
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember RarePosts: 27,395

    I have plenty of games to play and I'm not fussy on the age of the game either, so I have decades worth of AAA to play through. Currently going through FF9 again, before that I went through GTA5 again, before that Mad Max. I don't struggle to find games to play. 


    However, I struggle to find MMOs worth playing. I don't like shooters as a general rule and I didn't like the Halo games, so Bungie were always going to struggle to attract me to Destiny and Destiny 2. 


    You just said "I have decades worth of AAA to play through". So why even bother to struggle finding a good game in a niche genre like MMO?

    Just enjoy the decades worth of AAA (despite you do not like Destiny, which of course is your right and i totally respect that), and if a good (to you) MMO comes along, enjoy. If not, i doubt you need to even bother to notice.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember RarePosts: 27,395
    Its MASSIVE......
    Its MULTIPLAYER........
    Its ONLINE........

    All words that describe something.....what is that something?
    Destiny 2 is indeed a massive multiplayer online game. 

    Destiny 2 is not a massively multiplayer online game. 

    Those two extra letters make a big difference. 
    To be fair .. Talu did not state clearly of whether Destiny 2 is a MMO or not .. he just wrote a bunch of words, and claims that those words describe "something".

    Obviously, he may not even be aware of what the first M stands for. Most people, including those who classifies games on this website, don't care. Why should he?
  • cameltosiscameltosis ipswichMember EpicPosts: 1,670

    I have plenty of games to play and I'm not fussy on the age of the game either, so I have decades worth of AAA to play through. Currently going through FF9 again, before that I went through GTA5 again, before that Mad Max. I don't struggle to find games to play. 


    However, I struggle to find MMOs worth playing. I don't like shooters as a general rule and I didn't like the Halo games, so Bungie were always going to struggle to attract me to Destiny and Destiny 2. 


    You just said "I have decades worth of AAA to play through". So why even bother to struggle finding a good game in a niche genre like MMO?

    Just enjoy the decades worth of AAA (despite you do not like Destiny, which of course is your right and i totally respect that), and if a good (to you) MMO comes along, enjoy. If not, i doubt you need to even bother to notice.

    MMORPGs are my favourite genre of games. No other genre I have ever played has come close to the enjoyment I experienced in both SWG and LotRO. So, whilst I can still get enjoyment from single player games and I still game 2 or 3 nights a week, that enjoyment never reaches the heights experienced playing MMORPGs. 


    Imagine you are a massive fan of burgers - they are your favourite food and you eat them all the time. There is a restaurant in your town that does the best burger you have ever tasted in your life. Then the restaurant shuts down. So do all the others. For years, your only choice of burger is McDonalds and Burger King. They're still tasty and enjoyable, but you know that it could be so much better. 


    That is what my gaming life feels like - its still enjoyable, but I know the industry has the potential for far greater things than it is currently producing and I would like to see it reach that potential. 
    GdemamiCecropiaMrMelGibson
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember RarePosts: 27,395


    MMORPGs are my favourite genre of games. No other genre I have ever played has come close to the enjoyment I experienced in both SWG and LotRO. So, whilst I can still get enjoyment from single player games and I still game 2 or 3 nights a week, that enjoyment never reaches the heights experienced playing MMORPGs. 



    wait .. which way it is?

    I said, in a previous post, "That is too bad. People only like MMO (using the traditional definition used by you .. as opposed to the more "liberal" classification used by this site) won't have many AAA games to play."

    And then you said "I have plenty of games to play and I'm not fussy on the age of the game either, so I have decades worth of AAA to play through. Currently going through FF9 again, before that I went through GTA5 again, before that Mad Max. I don't struggle to find games to play."

    So "is it too bad", or do you have plenty to play?
  • ScotScot UKMember RarePosts: 6,522
    I don't know if it Destiny 2 is a great game, but why does it have to be a MMO? Being a great game is enough :D
    TorvalJean-Luc_PicardMrMelGibson

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  • MikehaMikeha Member EpicPosts: 7,821
    Destiny 2 should get mmo of the year for 2017. :)
    TheScavenger
  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk LiverpoolMember RarePosts: 1,477
    lol . this topic is still going strong. In fact, it is the most popular topic on the forum front page.

    I wonder if this debate will last much much longer than the amount of the time i will spend playing Destiny 2.

    Here is my question. Will you enjoyment of Destiny 2 changes, if it is classified as a MMO, or not?

    The answers should be fun!
    Fun isn't relevant to the question "is Destiny 2 an MMO". I enjoy games that are MMO's and I enjoy games that aren't MMO's. That doesn't mean I don't like to be clear on what is or isn't an MMO.

    Destiny 2 is not an MMO. Will I enjoy it? I dunno yet, I'll have to wait for the PC reviews to see if I'll even buy it. I'm also waiting to see how many hours the story plays for but no review I've seen so far has that answer.

    MMO or not is nothing to do with me buying it, or not.
  • WoeToTheVanquishedWoeToTheVanquished USA #1, ILMember UncommonPosts: 175
    these threads are complete troll topics. destiny is not an mmo. it's an instanced game where only a specific amount of players can interact in an area. it's designed this way. it is Not an mmo. this is a troll topic.
    MadFrenchieCecropiaMaurgrimGdemami
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember RarePosts: 27,395
    Scot said:
    I don't know if it Destiny 2 is a great game, but why does it have to be a MMO? Being a great game is enough :D

    According to the classification of this website, it is a MMOFPS. And many here will go on a crusade to tell you that it is "wrong" (tm) to call it a MMO.

    So clearly, while most players will just play it because it is good (or not if it is not good), some here are very upset one way or another. Don't ask me why. I am just here to enjoy the ride. 
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember RarePosts: 27,395
    these threads are complete troll topics. destiny is not an mmo. it's an instanced game where only a specific amount of players can interact in an area. it's designed this way. it is Not an mmo. this is a troll topic.

    The gamelist on THIS website classifies Destiny 1 & 2 as, and i quote, "MMOFPS". You can repeat "destiny is not an mmo" many times (in fact, many has done so). It does not seem to be changing minds.

    As for whether this is a troll topic, since you just posted here, are you tell me that you like to write "troll posts"?
  • VelifaxVelifax Ogden, UTMember UncommonPosts: 377
    Its as much an MMO as games that have 6-8 player instances (dungeons). Definitely nothing massively multiplayer about a 6 person (or whatever low number the devs decided) dungeon. So if Destiny isn't an MMO and has the same mechanics, that means those aren't MMOs either.

    EVE Online, SWG, Ultima Online...true MMOs. No instances, players all take part in the same world and are all massive. MMOs that rely on tiny groups? Well if Destiny isn't massive, neither are they.
    I agree with your conclusion but your logic is faulty. The instances arent the only determining factor, they are an exception. The open world is the deciding factor(because it was designed that way); if you are able to interact with a "massive" number of people, in a city, world boss, etc, then it qualifies as "MMO."

    So yes, WoW is not an MMO because while 5000ish people per server is a lot, it pales in comparison to real MMOs.

    Of course now the discussion about how the term is used comes into play and makes this semantic parlay irrelevant; the term truly means what people use it to mean.
  • VelifaxVelifax Ogden, UTMember UncommonPosts: 377
    Destiny is an "mmo" in the same way Warframe, GW1, Vindictus, C9, etc etc are mmos. They are all lobby based multiplayer games. The massively part of the name in these games is on the server capacity, not on a persistent world like WoW, EQ etc. So yeah, it is technically still a non persistent mmo.

    My two cents.

    EDIT: Massively doesn´t imply persistent, its just that... massively. Whether its server side(total capacity) or on a persistent(non instanced) world is irrelevant.
    Great point, ill use argument ad absurdum to deflate it.

    If your logic holds, Xbox Live would qualify as an MMO. It brings untold numbers of gamers together into groups in little isolated world shards, at whim.

    Without the inclusion of persistent world, "MMO" literally means LFG Lobby. Which is fine if all one cares about is the literal definition of the words.

    I still use the term as it originally arose, representing online worlds with many players.
  • LerxstLerxst Phx, AZMember UncommonPosts: 634
    If a game with less than 1,000 players, all playing in one, persistent space, which they could all potentially occupy at once, can ever be called an MMO, I've going back to playing fucking Quake II on their 32 player servers.
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