Okay WTF is a MMO? Really?

klash2defklash2def Member RarePosts: 852
Watching vids on Destiny 2 (im hype yes I know) and I keep seeing the same argument on each comment section.. " FFS DESTINY IS NOT A MMO!" 

Well, considering the defintion for MMO upon a basic google of the acronym here is what I found.. 


MMO
noun
  1. an online video game which can be played by a very large number of people simultaneously
So if Destiny: Raids, Guilds, Loot Drops, Dailies, Heroics, Weekly, Shared Open Space
and if MMO: Raids, Guilds, Loot Drops, Dailies, Heroics, Weekly, Shared Open Space

Then how is Destiny NOT an MMO? I think the term MMO needs to be redefined for the current generation of games because people are still trying to apply a old system to new games which said rules no longer apply. 

SO in 2017 what do we consider a MMO if Destiny isnt one? Just curious? 
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Comments

  • ScorchienScorchien Hatboro, PAMember EpicPosts: 4,022
    its not........
    Simple test ... lets play .. One of These things is not like the other.. 

        1.UO            2.Destiny       3.BDO     4.SWG    

    Tell me which one is different and give the most signifigant reason why


      and again    

    1. Destiny     2. Call of Duty     3.EQ    4.Ark

    These are rhetorical questions of course .. We all know which is different and why ...


          The problem we have is developers began sometime 2007 or so labeling there Multi player games as MMO/RPGs when they werent , to get to/appeal to a broader younger audience (ill add more gullible and easily suggestive audience also )

      Convoluting the phrase MMORPG to entire generation of gamers , I could take a dam condom , poke a hole in it and sell it as a condom , But the smart kids know its not doing what was intended to do , Just like games like LOL,Destiny ,Ark etc .. arent doing what an MMORPG was/is intended to do ...


    RhoklawGdemamiNoxeronSedrynTyrosGeneauxKyleranPhaserlightTyranusPrimeNycteliosNPCPakand 4 others.
  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCMember LegendaryPosts: 10,146
    Poker can be played by a very large number of people simultaneously... just saying.
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    Do you, Mr. Jones?
  • time007time007 Member UncommonPosts: 931
    not sure on this one. i will need to do some more research.

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  • jpedrote52jpedrote52 Member UncommonPosts: 63
    Destiny is not an MMO, MMO stands for Massive Multiplayer Online, there's nothing massive about destiny, it's an online shooter nothing else, no one calls CS:GO or CoD or Battlefield or any other type of online shooter an mmo, because they're not, they're looby games that you can play online with other players. Same goes for LoL or Dota , they're all online game and millions of player play them, but they're not coined has mmo's because they're not mmo's they're mobas a completly different type of game.

    The term MMO was created to specifically refer games that had huge worlds or areas that the entire server population shares, games like WoW or EQ or DaoC or SWG or other real MMORPGs. Destiny is an online multiplayer game with RPG elements, not an MMO, and I would be thankful if everyone stopped referring to it as an MMO just for the sake of making it more "appealing" to a certain crowd, that has absolutely no interest in the type of game Destiny is.
    CazrielGdemamiNoxeronklash2defKyutaSyukoRexKushmanMaurgrimPrecusorNycteliosRealizerand 2 others.
  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus LondonMember RarePosts: 1,255
    There's a difference between MO and MMO in game play. By your definition not all multiplayer games are MMOs but singleplayer games which require players to be online are also MMOs. 
    Have you ever noticed that their stuff is shit and your shit is stuff?
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member EpicPosts: 18,148
    What matters is whether a game is fun, not whether it technically meets this or that definition of a genre.  The problem is that different gamers have different preferences in what makes a game fun.  Genre descriptions exist as a way to help organize games so that gamers can more easily find the ones that they are likely to enjoy.  As such, the best definition of an MMO is the recursive one:  if liking game X is strongly correlated with liking other games that you'd previously have thought of as being an MMO, then game X is an MMO.  Even if it's a single-player offline game.
    TorvalGdemamiPanther2103rodingoKane72
  • Dead_GuyDead_Guy Needles, AZMember UncommonPosts: 42
    Developers and websites (like this one) are listing games as 'MMOs' simply because there are no 'MO' categories or websites. Look at Steam, do you see an 'Online Multiplayer' section? Nope, but you do see a 'Massively Multiplayer' section. How many 'Online Multiplayer' websites do you know of? None, because there are none.

    To most people, 'MMOs' are a genre, which is utterly retarded. RPGs are a genre, shooters are a genre, 'Massively Multiplayer' is not a freaking genre. Platforms like Steam and websites like this one are confusing the hell out of people, and I'm pretty sure it's done on purpose.



    GdemamiKyleran
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember RarePosts: 27,378
    wow .. I have not been here a few days, and guess what I found on the top of the forum when i get back .. yes, ANOTHER flogging the dead horse "what is a MMO" topic.

    On the sad side, this place probably don't need me to "crusade" this discussion anymore. Kudos!!!

    and what *is* a MMO? Is Destiny 2 a MMO?

    a) The game list on this site classifies it as a "MMOFPS".
    b) The OP seems to think so.
    c) Lots of MMO definition police/crusaders came out strong with their condemnation.


    Interesting! Let's the game continues!
    craftseeker
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member EpicPosts: 18,148
    Dead_Guy said:
    Developers and websites (like this one) are listing games as 'MMOs' simply because there are no 'MO' categories or websites. Look at Steam, do you see an 'Online Multiplayer' section? Nope, but you do see a 'Massively Multiplayer' section. How many 'Online Multiplayer' websites do you know of? None, because there are none.

    To most people, 'MMOs' are a genre, which is utterly retarded. RPGs are a genre, shooters are a genre, 'Massively Multiplayer' is not a freaking genre. Platforms like Steam and websites like this one are confusing the hell out of people, and I'm pretty sure it's done on purpose.
    If you set out to make a game that fits firmly into a well-established genre without doing anything that pushes the boundaries of the genre, you're likely setting out to make a mediocre knock-off of something else that is almost certain to be terrible.  The reason that there is confusion about genre definitions is that such a large fraction of the best games don't fit perfectly into pre-existing genres.
  • PhryPhry OxfordshireMember EpicPosts: 8,981
    MMO just means that a game supports a few thousand players on the same server that are able to interact with each other in the game, stipulation being in the game itself, and not in a games 'lobby' or 'meeting area' that is seperate from the 'play areas' of the game.
    There are a few other requirements as well such as persistent worlds etc. but i think those are the main ones.
    ConstantineMerusJamesGoblin
  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaMember EpicPosts: 13,101
    I can tell you a MMO is SUPPOSE to be more than a login screen to support cash shops.
    Sadly this is what devs think a MMO is,a simple login screen to allow many to login then a pile of instances and cash shops to support the online part.
    Not sure who these type of devs think they are fooling but it is not this guy.

    Make me a plausible,MAKES SENSE MMO and i am all over it,i will play it for years,otherwise,i 'll keep down rating all the rubbish out there and there is a load of rubbish out there.

    Thank god for crowd funding,now we get an even more overload of crappy devs that think they can make a triple A mmo.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember RarePosts: 27,378
    Wizardry said:
    I can tell you a MMO is SUPPOSE to be more than a login screen to support cash shops.

    "suppose"? By your authority? LoL.

    It is a free world. There is no such thing as "suppose to be". Devs can make anything, and call them as they see fit (and they do). Websites can classify games as they see fit (and they do).

    There is really very little you can do about it. Ranting on a forum may make you feel somewhat righteous and certainly you will pat yourself on your back about your superior ability to parse the simple two words "massively multiplayer". 

    But after years, WoT is still classified as an action MMO here. Destiny 2, a new game, is classified as a MMOFPS here. Some reviewers (you can check metacritics) still call WoT a MMO. So may be you are not working  hard enough to educate these people of what MMO is "supposed" to be?

  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus LondonMember RarePosts: 1,255
    Wizardry said:
    I can tell you a MMO is SUPPOSE to be more than a login screen to support cash shops.

    "suppose"? By your authority? LoL.

    It is a free world. There is no such thing as "suppose to be". Devs can make anything, and call them as they see fit (and they do). Websites can classify games as they see fit (and they do).

    There is really very little you can do about it. Ranting on a forum may make you feel somewhat righteous and certainly you will pat yourself on your back about your superior ability to parse the simple two words "massively multiplayer". 

    But after years, WoT is still classified as an action MMO here. Destiny 2, a new game, is classified as a MMOFPS here. Some reviewers (you can check metacritics) still call WoT a MMO. So may be you are not working  hard enough to educate these people of what MMO is "supposed" to be?

    So basically you are saying other forum mates should not have opinions regarding what's right or wrong because you think they are wrong? 

    It's a free world (that's up for a debate though), not the free world of nariusseldon :P
    Have you ever noticed that their stuff is shit and your shit is stuff?
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember RarePosts: 27,378
    edited September 2


    So basically you are saying other forum mates should not have opinions regarding what's right or wrong because you think they are wrong? 

    It's a free world (that's up for a debate though), not the free world of nariusseldon :P
    You really need to learn how to read.

    In fact, i specifically said "Ranting on a forum may make you feel somewhat righteous and certainly you will pat yourself on your back about your superior ability to parse the simple two words "massively multiplayer"." ... implying that it is of value to them to do so.

    However, it is certainly fair to point out that their opinions would not change the world. 

    In fact, didn't i always encourage people to speak up? Without their opinions, there is no fun "flogging the horse" discussions here. 

    And you certainly miss the core logic of my post. If it is a free world, how can i restrict anyone for posting anything? If you want, i can give you a logic 101 lession. It is a free world, i suspect that you probably would not want to correct your deficiency in logical reasoning. But of course, it is entirely up to you.


    Post edited by nariusseldon on
  • Loke666Loke666 KalmarMember EpicPosts: 20,904
    MMOs Mean "Massive multiplayer online" so what is a MMO comes down to what the word "massive" means.

    Here is what Cambridge dictionary say:

    massive adjective

     UK ​ /ˈmæs.ɪv/ US ​ /ˈmæs.ɪv/

    B2 very large in sizeamount, or number:

    They have a massive house.
    She died after taking a massive overdose of drugs.
    If the drought continuesdeaths will occur on a massive scale.

    And it is number we are talking not size.

    Destiny do have 16 as max players, is that right? (don't play myself so it could be more or less).

    Is 16 a very large number of players?

    Every bloody FPS game today have that many or more so I would say it is average, not very large.

    Therefore is Destiny not a MMO and neither is Diablo 3. Any FPS game with 128 players on the other hand do qualify since that is indeed a very large number, like Joint Ops.
    PhryJamesGoblin
  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus LondonMember RarePosts: 1,255


    So basically you are saying other forum mates should not have opinions regarding what's right or wrong because you think they are wrong? 

    It's a free world (that's up for a debate though), not the free world of nariusseldon :P
    You really need to learn how to read.

    In fact, i specifically said "Ranting on a forum may make you feel somewhat righteous and certainly you will pat yourself on your back about your superior ability to parse the simple two words "massively multiplayer"." ... implying that it is of value to them to do so.

    However, it is certainly fair to point out that their opinions would not change the world. 

    In fact, didn't i always encourage people to speak up? Without their opinions, there is no fun "flogging the horse" discussions here. 

    And you certainly miss the core logic of my post. If it is a free world, how can i restrict anyone for posting anything? If you want, i can give you a logic 101 lession. It is a free world, i suspect that you probably would not want to correct your deficiency in logical reasoning. But of course, it is entirely up to you.


    That statement is very condescending, I know how to read! :)

    Opinions can change the world. The world of mankind is shaped from opinions. You might think they don't matter at all since we are on a small forums. 

    But I think the staff here actually care about the opinions. They read them, and engage in conversation. Opinions make them think, review their own and sometimes change it. 

    These mmorpg.com, they don't have the highest hits, but have influence, their name has an influence. They can affect where it's out of reach of us members. And like ripples in a coy pound, they can make a change. 

    Opinions matter, and they can possibly change the world. 
    Cazriel
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  • PhryPhry OxfordshireMember EpicPosts: 8,981
    Loke666 said:
    MMOs Mean "Massive multiplayer online" so what is a MMO comes down to what the word "massive" means.

    Here is what Cambridge dictionary say:

    massive adjective

     UK ​ /ˈmæs.ɪv/ US ​ /ˈmæs.ɪv/

    B2 very large in sizeamount, or number:

    They have a massive house.
    She died after taking a massive overdose of drugs.
    If the drought continuesdeaths will occur on a massive scale.

    And it is number we are talking not size.

    Destiny do have 16 as max players, is that right? (don't play myself so it could be more or less).

    Is 16 a very large number of players?

    Every bloody FPS game today have that many or more so I would say it is average, not very large.

    Therefore is Destiny not a MMO and neither is Diablo 3. Any FPS game with 128 players on the other hand do qualify since that is indeed a very large number, like Joint Ops.
    Except the first M in MMO is not Massive, its Massively, there is a very significant difference.
    ConstantineMerus
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Nashville, TNMember EpicPosts: 2,712
    Quizzical said:
    What matters is whether a game is fun, not whether it technically meets this or that definition of a genre.  The problem is that different gamers have different preferences in what makes a game fun.  Genre descriptions exist as a way to help organize games so that gamers can more easily find the ones that they are likely to enjoy.  As such, the best definition of an MMO is the recursive one:  if liking game X is strongly correlated with liking other games that you'd previously have thought of as being an MMO, then game X is an MMO.  Even if it's a single-player offline game.
    I don't feel like the point of genres is to render the definition of "genre" meaningless.
    ConstantineMerusTheScavengerJamesGoblin

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  • CazrielCazriel San Francisco, CAMember UncommonPosts: 228
    Simple definition:  You know it when you see it.
     
    Regarding devs who slap MMO on every title, I fall back on the wisdom of the Marx Bros., "Who you gonna believe?  Your own eyes or me?"
    SedrynTyrosJamesGoblin
  • RhoklawRhoklaw Ft. Bliss, TXMember EpicPosts: 5,220
    edited September 2
    In all actuality, you can reference MuDs which came out before MMOs. MuD which stands for multi user dungeon were games that could be played online with other players. In fact, I'm still playing Gemstone IV right now. Anyways, at any given point, Gemstone IV could have a few hundred up to 1200 people online. So, Gemstone IV should be labeled an MMO because it provides the MASSIVE part of an MMO. Wrong. If a game doesn't have a 3D virtual open world, it can't be an MMO. If a game doesn't have any roleplaying elements, it can't be an RPG. If a game doesn't have first person shooting in it, it can't be an FPS.

    We have MMOFPS, which is Planetside 1 and 2.
    We have MMORPG, which is EQ, EQ2, DAoC, UO, AO, AC, SWG, WoW, FFXI and FFXIV, GW2 and so on
    We have MOBA, which is Overwatch and LoL
    We have FPS, which is BF and CoD series
    We have RPG, which is Witcher 3 and Skyrim

    We have a plethora of game genres which do NOT fall into the category of an MMO, let alone an MMORPG. MMO by definition that you quoted from the dictionary does NOT describe Destiny 1 or 2. Destiny 2 is an FPS, its an RPG and that is it. It does not allow for open worlds filled with 1000s of players. That would make it an MMO. Sure, its played online, but it is not a massive multiplayer online game.
    Post edited by Rhoklaw on

  • someforumguysomeforumguy HomeMember UncommonPosts: 3,842
    edited September 2
    It used to be about a huge number of players (Massively) together (Multiplayer) over internet (Online as opposed to LAN). But this was because the only other online gaming were first person shooters, without persistant worlds (map based) and small amount of players per map.

    But everything is online and multiplayer nowadays. And the term Massively has always been a tricky one, depending on how MMO's use multiple instances of the same region/city etc. Or instanced maps etc.

    You should look at what matters to you instead.

    Is it a persistent world?
    Does it have classes or does it use a skillsystem?
    Is it tab based combat, or fps style combat?
    What kind of PVP?
    What theme etc etc etc

    Whether it can be officially classified as MMO is kind of moot nowadays. Just find an online game that floats your boat.
    Post edited by someforumguy on
  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKMember LegendaryPosts: 16,945
    edited September 2
    This question is IMO irrelevant, who cares anymore? The whole subject of defining a MMO has become really blurred.

    So, I wouldn't worry about it. If you think it's an MMO and someone tells you it's not - let it be. It's not worth wasting the energy to argue over it.

    Are you having fun playing it? 

    That's a lot more relevant.


    Post edited by DMKano on
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  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember RarePosts: 27,378

    That statement is very condescending, I know how to read! :)

    Opinions can change the world. The world of mankind is shaped from opinions. You might think they don't matter at all since we are on a small forums. 


    It is no more or less worse than stuffing the wrong words into others' mouth like "So basically you are saying other forum mates should not have opinions regarding what's right or wrong because you think they are wrong?"

    Surely, it is your freedom to believe "opinions can change the world". I am more of the camp that looks at evidence. For instance, people have been yelling bloody murder about how the label of MMO is used yearS ago. Certainly those opinions do not change the classification of games on this, and other websites, and certainly not how superdata segment their data.

    Do you disagree with these facts? We are not talking about opinions changing politics or other matters. We are talking about the use of the label MMO in this topic. 

  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus LondonMember RarePosts: 1,255
    DMKano said:
    This question is IMO irrelevant, who cares anymore? The whole subject of defining a MMO has become really blurred.

    So, I wouldn't worry about it. If you think it's an MMO and someone tells you it's not - let it be. It's not worth wasting the energy to argue over it.

    Are you having fun playing it? 

    That's a lot more relevant.


    The reason some people insist on this definition is because that's the type of game they want to play, and by changing that definition they fear their favorite genre is getting eliminated altogether. 
    RhoklawMaurgrimJamesGoblin
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  • ChicagoCubChicagoCub Chicago, ILMember UncommonPosts: 341
    edited September 2
    First they were MMORPG's.  Then they became MMO's and then MO's.  Now all they are is really just O's.
    Post edited by ChicagoCub on
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