Which MMO most promoted griefing?

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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLMember EpicPosts: 7,435
    In Shadowbane you could force people into formations.  I'll never forget doing that to my friends on the newbie island to make them drown.  That was probably some of the biggest laughter ever.  Technically not griefing because we were just having fun but anyone could have done that to newbies.

    Then there was the fact that you could be a thief and just invisibly steal loot from both corpses and backpack. We made a guild of Scouts called ThievesBane and used to just hunt Thieves all day.  The responses were pretty epic when we would pop out of stealth and insta-kill some Thief that had been stealing from a group.  The groups usually would panic and try to attack us so we had a big speech prepared via macro where we called out Thieves and explained our sacred duty to hunt them down.

    My favorite in Shadowbane was right at launch and I was like lever 5 on the newbie island (no pk  allowed). I was playing some kind of mage and killing lizardmen when some warrior type came up my my camp and started pulling.  I explained to the guy that there was another camp literally 30 seconds down the road and I could easily kill this whole camp solo so could he please take the other one (this one had a Lizard Captain a level or two higher so I could level higher). Well he got pissy and said something like "Screw you it's a free world and I want to stay here" and proceeded to pull mobs as they spawned.  Well being a mage I could pretty much instantly  target and hit the mobs so it quickly became apparent that he would never get another xp kill.   After a few minutes a GM popped out.  They guy started to complain that I was stealing his kills while I also explained the background.  The GM told him something along the lines of "We encourage conflict among our players and once you leave this island he would be able to kill you and take all your stuff.  I suggest you stop whining and move over to the other camp.  Play 2 Crush!!"  That was awesome.

    Then of course in Darkfall (not unique) bankjacking was an actual thing.  Where people would spend weeks or months in a guild just to get back access so they could loot it dry...

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLMember EpicPosts: 7,435
    edited August 27
    Oh yeah... in Vanguard on the faction PvP server things were so ill thought out that there was no unique faction chat.  I remember fighting my way into the NPC chiefs house at one of the enemy cities, killing him and the guards. We could see enemy players call for help in chat so we just responded saying things like "No we killed the enemy, all is safe now", or "Looks like a big group outside town Let's meet at the chiefs house and group up". Or just shouting random orders into chat to confuse them. Total chaos... We stayed there for over an hour before mounting up and riding away. Kind of griefing but it was damn fun at the time.

    Also in Vanguard you could be an invisible mage... walk in the middle of a group and chain AoE to wipe them out in seconds before they could even respond.

    Probably the number one griefing tool from any game though was in EQ2.  I forget the class, but at launch you could cast it on someone to return them to their home city.   Not even on the PvP server. You  could just walk up to a group pulling mobs and port out their tank, or cleric mid pull.  There was no player confirmation you just got ported home... Not even a message saying "So and So ported you"... just suddenly found yourself a hundred miles away...


    Post edited by Slapshot1188 on

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarreMember EpicPosts: 6,610
    Pre-Trammel UO and AC1 on Darktide were quite badly designed when it comes to griefing.
    In both games, you could completely lock someone out of any meaningful activity in the game through PvP, and the opponent had no chance in hell to fight back.
    MrMelGibson
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
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  • ScorchienScorchien Hatboro, PAMember EpicPosts: 4,031
    In my  experience it was Shadowbane and mostly because it was so poorly coded ..

      I dont get the UO references at all , i played from day one to present , And it was very easily avoided if you played smart , If anyone was repeatedly griefed in UO , you simply were not using your head , and/or using the game systems there for you ..

       
    ManWithNoTan
  • ElsaboltsElsabolts Anderson, InMember RarePosts: 3,170
    edited August 27
    I can only speak for myself but I refuse to pay to be ganked in any game. Eve was the game that caused this thinking and the pimple face 13 yr olds who can not get girls in Goonswarm.
    Post edited by Elsabolts on
    " Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Those Who  Would Threaten It "
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  • KalebGraysonKalebGrayson Harrisburg, PAMember UncommonPosts: 207
    edited August 27
    I don't know from personal experience, but an opinion I have from various posts over the years is that griefing is prevalent in Eve Online.  I've no desire to grief or be griefed, so I give pvp games in general a wide berth.
    Post edited by KalebGrayson on
  • Viper482Viper482 Somewhere, FLMember RarePosts: 1,685
    Archeage sucked in the fact you could simply block a path with your boat or cart to grief people trying to trade run. 

    UO was particularly bad, like you could name a teleport rune whatever you wanted to. Someone thought you were giving them a port to where they wanted to go, but it would teleport you into a locked house or something. If you had no runes to get out you were stuck lol. Also they would port you into an ambush where their buddies would be waiting for you to kill you and take all your stuff. Actually made the world dangerous, not even sure I would call it griefing. 

  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 26,669
    I don't know from personal experience, but an opinion I have from various posts over the years is that griefing is prevalent in Eve Online.  I've no desire to grief or be griefed, so I give pvp games in general a wide berth.
    This will be hard to understand if you've never actually played and mastered EVE, but while most stories you have heard are all true, the losses could have been avoided by a smart player.

    EVE probably has the best mechanics of any PVP game I've played which provide the means for a good player to avoid griefing and getting ganked.

    I've lost a number of ships in EVE to "wolves" yet in almost every case I could have avoided the losses by taking a less risky course.

    I got away with a lot more, at times moving billions upon billions of in game assests without being caught.

    People who lose ships in EVE almost always made a mistake due to impatience,  stupidity or greed, but in almost every case could have been avoided.

    There are players who go years without a loss,  not me as I do take some chances and suffer from a chronic malady,  "death by recliner " easily my number one cause of ship loss.

    B)
    GdemamiPhryHatefull

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  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 26,669
    edited August 27
    On the topic of griefing, one observation is people are nominating games such as Lineage 2, Shadowbane, AOC, and EVE specifically which while I was killed in at times, can't say it was to the level of griefing

    I experienced none of the SB exploits, but I only played on the official servers for a few months so perhaps the exploits and heavy griefing came later. 

    Same might be true for L2 and AOC, again only played 3 to 6 months, no real griefing though getting killed at quest givers was an annoyance on AOC which I do recall. 

    DAOC red servers probably had the greatest amount of griefing I've ever experienced, (WOW Kel Thuzad in the early days too) but in general I guess I've normally steered clear of games people call out as having excessive griefing, or I managed to learn tactics to avoid.
    Post edited by Kyleran on
    MrMelGibsonHatefull

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    On hiatus from EVE Online since Dec 2016 - CCP continues to wander aimlessly

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
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  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 26,669
    One other consideration is what exactly is griefing? 

    To some players anytime they are unexpectedly killed they consider it griefing. 

    Others call it griefing if they were out leveled, or out numbered so they had no chance to fight back.

    Sometimes the qualifier is repetitive killing of players, and sometimes exploits have to be involved.

    First we need to understand what griefing really is before calling out various titles as supporting griefing or not.

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    On hiatus from EVE Online since Dec 2016 - CCP continues to wander aimlessly

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon




  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 26,669
    edited August 27
    Elsabolts said:
    I can only speak for myself but I refuse to pay to be ganked in any game. Eve was the game that caused this thinking and the pimple face 13 yr olds who can not get girls in Goonswarm.
    Hyperbole does not well support your argument. Most Goons are 25 to 50 years old, are married or have girlfriends and are very good at playing EVE.

    So what exactly did they do to you to make you feel the way you do.

    While Goons are griefers, they are also easily avoided and I rarely lost a ship to them.

    Pandemic Legion not so much, I ended up on the losing side in multiple encounters with them or their allies, but always in a combat / soverienty situation, not griefing.
    Post edited by Kyleran on
    PhryHatefull

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    On hiatus from EVE Online since Dec 2016 - CCP continues to wander aimlessly

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
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  • AvarixAvarix Chicago, ILMember UncommonPosts: 590
    Viper482 said:
    Archeage sucked in the fact you could simply block a path with your boat or cart to grief people trying to trade run. 

    UO was particularly bad, like you could name a teleport rune whatever you wanted to. Someone thought you were giving them a port to where they wanted to go, but it would teleport you into a locked house or something. If you had no runes to get out you were stuck lol. Also they would port you into an ambush where their buddies would be waiting for you to kill you and take all your stuff. Actually made the world dangerous, not even sure I would call it griefing. 

    UO is the game that made me stay away from PvP games. Not sure if I am remembering right, but griefing was really bad there. If memory serves you would be standing at the bank, sorting through your stuff, and someone would break a Dragon they tamed and it would just kill everyone.
  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus LondonMember RarePosts: 1,283
    Kyleran said:
    One other consideration is what exactly is griefing? 

    To some players anytime they are unexpectedly killed they consider it griefing. 

    Others call it griefing if they were out leveled, or out numbered so they had no chance to fight back.

    Sometimes the qualifier is repetitive killing of players, and sometimes exploits have to be involved.

    First we need to understand what griefing really is before calling out various titles as supporting griefing or not.
    I think griefing is the act to annoy and anger other players with no other awards or benefits whatsoever. 

    Stalk ganking an under leveled toon with no PvP points rewards or loots or challenge is indeed griefing. Now when I'm under leveled and some big guy is passing by and kills me on his merry way I don't mind. I can respect that. But if he is following me around and killing over and over again then that's griefing. 
    Kyleran
    Have you ever noticed that their stuff is shit and your shit is stuff?
  • k61977k61977 Pendleton, SCMember RarePosts: 749
    Scorchien said:
    In my  experience it was Shadowbane and mostly because it was so poorly coded ..

      I dont get the UO references at all , i played from day one to present , And it was very easily avoided if you played smart , If anyone was repeatedly griefed in UO , you simply were not using your head , and/or using the game systems there for you ..

       
    Playing smart had nothing to do with getting PK by a group for new players that hadn't made friends yet.  Yeah they could call out for help.  The idea of them being able to go out solo anywhere just to farm ect... just wasn't a reality if there were PK'ers around.  They would kill them then camp them until they were forced to stop by others, but this could take 30 mins to hours most of the time.  I only played UO for about 4 years when it came out and can tell you first hand if someone wanted to grief you back then you couldn't really stop them unless you were on equal ground with them.  And griefing is not equal, it usually means messing with people that don't have a chance to fight back.
    Gdemami
  • ScorchienScorchien Hatboro, PAMember EpicPosts: 4,031
      Lol really , how would they camp this player , If player was stupid enough to run back to the PKs .. Wee here i am kill me some more . You got what you deserved

                If player was foolish enough to not have a rune and recall at the ready at all times ..

                          They got what they deserved

      If player hunted while close to weight .. You got what you dsverved..

     If you opened random boxes .. you got what you deserved

      If you step into a gate or recall off a rune you arent 100% sure of ..you got what you deserved
      
     If you attacked that funny orc on the edge of the woods that walked funny ... you got what you deserved

     If you accepted a duel in town .... you got what you deserved ..

      Was very easy to make a rune book yourself or purchase from reliable vendors and move around Britania very easily to find hunting grounds..

        If you got pked by several Reds and ran back to get your corpse ..you got what you deserved again ...

      There was nothing in UO not easily replaceable ..(especially early on)
      '

     etc .. i could go on and on .. But most every situation required just a few moments of thought and being aware of your surroundings and understanding the games mechainics

      But as far as a new player went , we were all new players at one time ... And manged to survive and learn ..

              I had quite a great group that ran together after 6 months on UO , after a year.. Reds avoided us , as we were now the Hunters ..

     
    Kyleran
  • HatefullHatefull Member RarePosts: 1,473
    Renoaku said:
    As far as MMO "Arche Age" is by far the worst I have had that promotes both Pay 2 Win / P2A, and Griefing, they basically allow dictator guilds to take over a entire server, force pvp on smaller guilds too if you are unlucky to find yourself in that situation this is what turned me away from the game was their update doing this.

    As for other games "Currently Hi Rez studios" supports Griefing in Smite & Possibly paladins, currently a number of toxic trolls in this game will spam the report button on people for (other) on anyone who plays a god, hero or champion people don't agree with and eventually lets say that happens over 3 games and your good-will manages to hit 0 due to false reports you may find your account automatically suspended for a set number of hours I have actually encountered this myself, although the company publically has denied an automated system it has been tested twice, so I am waiting for a reply by Hi-Rez on the issues, but its something their games need to work on because apparently others think its okay just to report people for playing bad in an online game.

    http://forums.paladins.com/showthread.php?54466-Does-HI-Rez-automatically-suspend-in-Paladins-too

    Will wait for Hi-Rez response on the issues that plague and promote griefing in two games so far but its rather shocking to see that two community actually believe its okay to support griefing of other players just for having a bad game or disagree with one another let alone a game company that seems to promote this, and its really hard to get hold of customer service too.

    As most people in that thread said, if you refuse to pick for the team or keep getting wrecked because you play so bad, you deserve the report. Pretty simple. Learn team work and get better, it is pretty obvious in a MOBA when someone is trying and just having a hard time of it, and when someone is just being a dipshit.

    Also, neither of your examples are what I would consider griefing, at worst, teams just sick of having to deal with sub par players. I also play both the titles you mention, and I have never had a ban for bad play. I am a mediocre player on my best day in Smite and pretty good at Palidens.

    I disagree with AA as well. It's pretty tame compared to other games out there.

    As to OP's question, Eve, by far and on so many different levels.
    Gdemami

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarreMember EpicPosts: 6,610
    Scorchien said:
      Lol really , how would they camp this player , If player was stupid enough to run back to the PKs .. Wee here i am kill me some more . You got what you deserved

                If player was foolish enough to not have a rune and recall at the ready at all times ..

                          They got what they deserved

      If player hunted while close to weight .. You got what you dsverved..

     If you opened random boxes .. you got what you deserved

      If you step into a gate or recall off a rune you arent 100% sure of ..you got what you deserved
      
     If you attacked that funny orc on the edge of the woods that walked funny ... you got what you deserved

     If you accepted a duel in town .... you got what you deserved ..

      Was very easy to make a rune book yourself or purchase from reliable vendors and move around Britania very easily to find hunting grounds..

        If you got pked by several Reds and ran back to get your corpse ..you got what you deserved again ...
     
    Griefers abused those mechanics, and they got Trammel. They deserved it.

     ;)
    DeVoDeVoPhry
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  • RenoakuRenoaku Member RarePosts: 2,363
    edited August 28
    Hatefull said:
    Renoaku said:
    As far as MMO "Arche Age" is by far the worst I have had that promotes both Pay 2 Win / P2A, and Griefing, they basically allow dictator guilds to take over a entire server, force pvp on smaller guilds too if you are unlucky to find yourself in that situation this is what turned me away from the game was their update doing this.

    As for other games "Currently Hi Rez studios" supports Griefing in Smite & Possibly paladins, currently a number of toxic trolls in this game will spam the report button on people for (other) on anyone who plays a god, hero or champion people don't agree with and eventually lets say that happens over 3 games and your good-will manages to hit 0 due to false reports you may find your account automatically suspended for a set number of hours I have actually encountered this myself, although the company publically has denied an automated system it has been tested twice, so I am waiting for a reply by Hi-Rez on the issues, but its something their games need to work on because apparently others think its okay just to report people for playing bad in an online game.

    http://forums.paladins.com/showthread.php?54466-Does-HI-Rez-automatically-suspend-in-Paladins-too

    Will wait for Hi-Rez response on the issues that plague and promote griefing in two games so far but its rather shocking to see that two community actually believe its okay to support griefing of other players just for having a bad game or disagree with one another let alone a game company that seems to promote this, and its really hard to get hold of customer service too.

    As most people in that thread said, if you refuse to pick for the team or keep getting wrecked because you play so bad, you deserve the report. Pretty simple. Learn team work and get better, it is pretty obvious in a MOBA when someone is trying and just having a hard time of it, and when someone is just being a dipshit.

    Also, neither of your examples are what I would consider griefing, at worst, teams just sick of having to deal with sub par players. I also play both the titles you mention, and I have never had a ban for bad play. I am a mediocre player on my best day in Smite and pretty good at Palidens.

    I disagree with AA as well. It's pretty tame compared to other games out there.

    As to OP's question, Eve, by far and on so many different levels.
    Yeah I played since 2013 beta, but it seems there are a lot of salty players for example I went 7 games without having any reports, but two games I get reported and harassed in by players results in automatic 168 hour suspension.

    Hi-Rez just needs to make changes to the system to make sure it falls within the lines of the F.A.Q which clearly states what is punish worthy and what is not.

    http://hirezstudios.force.com/support/articles/en_US/Knowledge/Ban-policy/?l=en_US&fs=Search&pn=1

    Yeah I get what your saying about refusing to pick for the team, League OF Legends, for example put in a role selection which is something smite needs to do, getting suspended 168 hours due to toxic trolls had nothing to do with refusing to pick for the team.

    Game 1, I had a ADC player, we started out playing great, and then later he starts harassment in chat simply because the enemy is able to counter and evade out of stuns while I am playing Terra, rather than actually playing the game he leaves lane, harassments chat, and bitches at me telling me to leave and let him solo, so I press tab turn off my chat entirely let him play solo and within 5 minutes he loses lane and throws game.

    I dodged one game because a player said they were eating and threaten to go afk, aka I left in Lobby went to 0 Good Will.

    Game 2,
    Next day I get in Queue, two players call roles, two call nothing, I wait over 20+ seconds before locking anything when its my turn no one talks I  do talk in chat still no one responds so I go ahead and lock a god, needless to say after the game starts the two admit to being on comms, and start harassing chat at end of the game like its my fault they didn't communicate anything at end they report and 168 hour suspension immediately after.

    If this isn't enough over on Hi-Rez and Paladins because I rarely play that, but the other day I played 3 games (two games including my first game were wins.) But one of those games even though I filled the role for my team, I ended up having a guy on voice harassment chat, and start cursing / calling me an idiot.

    Needless to say I don't like toxic behavior so I just click mute and turn off voice / chat all together, and likely got reported by him too.

    When it comes down to it MOBA are filled with Toxic players all the time, League OF Legends for example took the right stance, and time to put in automated systems which do ban players for harassment in chat, and does ban Intentional Feeders, but this is a step which Hi-Rez as a company gets wrong & DOTA 2, in either of the games of Smite OR DOTA 2, if too many players end up reporting you for toxic behavior, even if its not within the ban policy as listed above, you still get automatically suspended, and this is something HI-Rez needs to clarify in their knowledge base, and update to infrom players of this that too many reports regardless of valid or not can result in a suspension or ban from the game for a set period of time.

    If you spam Arena, and don't actually Intentionally Feed, or play casuals you are unlikely to get punished as compared to if you play nothing but Ranked Conquest or Draft and get matched with toxic players who are META lovers and harassment over anything they are the ones who need to go especially when they intentionally throw games and harassment chat rather than just playing the game.

    BTW, which player in ths snapshot should I report just because they played badly, I played the match I know no one even on the enemy team intentionally fed but should I be salty and just report people over and over again for laughs too?
    http://imgur.com/a/5GUNA

    Personally I would not do false reports but there are those who do and if unlucky enough you get punished by an automated system.

    Although Hi-Rez has denied this, but I know the system is partially automated.

    Bottom Line about smite, their policy doesn't say anything about having to follow a specific meta, composition, play style, or method to someone elses approval, if someone wants to report someone for something then that is fine, but harassing a player in a game, and being toxic is not okay aka REPORT X PLAYER FOR WHATEVER HERE.

    If people have to have a specific meta or composition then Hi-Rez needs to include this in the Knowledge Base that not attempting to work with your team can also lead to suspensions and based off reports, not just Intentional Feeding & Harassment.








    Post edited by Renoaku on
    GdemamiKyleranHatefull
  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson USAMember EpicPosts: 2,270
    edited August 28
    Some of the worst griefing I saw personally was probably launch of Tera.  I know it's not close to the worst.  Just the worst I saw personally. 
    You're cute. 
    This game I experienced griefing first hand so it had a bigger impact on me personally.  Other mmos like DAoC had it too, but I never got it bad in the older mmos.  Different generation of gamers.
    Post edited by MrMelGibson on
  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus LondonMember RarePosts: 1,283
    Some of the worst griefing I saw personally was probably launch of Tera.  I know it's not close to the worst.  Just the worst I saw personally. 
    You're cute. 
    This game I experienced griefing first hand so it had a bigger impact on me personally.  Other mmos like DAoC had it too, but I never got it bad in the older mmos.  Different generation of gamers.
    I was being funny. Although you're still cute! :P
    MrMelGibson
    Have you ever noticed that their stuff is shit and your shit is stuff?
  • ElsaboltsElsabolts Anderson, InMember RarePosts: 3,170
    Kyleran said:
    Elsabolts said:
    I can only speak for myself but I refuse to pay to be ganked in any game. Eve was the game that caused this thinking and the pimple face 13 yr olds who can not get girls in Goonswarm.
    Hyperbole does not well support your argument. Most Goons are 25 to 50 years old, are married or have girlfriends and are very good at playing EVE.

    So what exactly did they do to you to make you feel the way you do.

    While Goons are griefers, they are also easily avoided and I rarely lost a ship to them.

    Pandemic Legion not so much, I ended up on the losing side in multiple encounters with them or their allies, but always in a combat / soverienty situation, not griefing.

    Kyleran I'm gonna say time frame was 2008 or 09 I was in Old Timer Guild mining in my haulk in high security space. 3 Goons came in and demanded money I said no and one suicide me while his buddies cleaned up. That's when I decided not to pay to be ganked and quit Eve for good.
    GdemamiConstantineMerusPhry
    " Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Those Who  Would Threaten It "
                                            MAGA
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 10,900
    edited August 28
    Basing on stories I read or witnessed, vast majority of time people mistake griefing with pvp...

    There is also a thing like consequencies, something people are not accustomed to in games they usually play.

    Actual griefing is very rare imo...
    Post edited by Gdemami on
    KyleranAllerleirauh
  • Loke666Loke666 KalmarMember EpicPosts: 20,914
    Gdemami said:
    Basing on stories I read or witnessed, vast majority of time people mistake griefing with pvp...

    There is also a thing like consequencies, something people are not accustomed to in games they usually play.

    Actual griefing is very rare imo...
    Getting killed is just PvP.  Getting spawncamped for hours by the same player is griefing.

    And the difference isn't that subtile, when someone plays just to make the game a living hell for other players you have a griefer. As a PvPer ypu certainlly have to live with getting killed a lot which isn't personal.

    Griefing is personal, that is the difference. And it is just griefing ig the players constantly getting killed have no chance, otherwise it is more of a clan feud.
    MrMelGibsonGdemami
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 10,900
    edited August 28
    Loke666 said:
    Getting killed is just PvP.  Getting spawncamped for hours by the same player is griefing.
    It is not, you are still just being killed in PVP.
    Post edited by Gdemami on
  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 26,669
    edited August 28
    Elsabolts said:
    Kyleran said:
    Elsabolts said:
    I can only speak for myself but I refuse to pay to be ganked in any game. Eve was the game that caused this thinking and the pimple face 13 yr olds who can not get girls in Goonswarm.
    Hyperbole does not well support your argument. Most Goons are 25 to 50 years old, are married or have girlfriends and are very good at playing EVE.

    So what exactly did they do to you to make you feel the way you do.

    While Goons are griefers, they are also easily avoided and I rarely lost a ship to them.

    Pandemic Legion not so much, I ended up on the losing side in multiple encounters with them or their allies, but always in a combat / soverienty situation, not griefing.

    Kyleran I'm gonna say time frame was 2008 or 09 I was in Old Timer Guild mining in my haulk in high security space. 3 Goons came in and demanded money I said no and one suicide me while his buddies cleaned up. That's when I decided not to pay to be ganked and quit Eve for good.
    You make choices in EVE, you chose to maximize for yield, a Skiff would have been better choice, lower yield but near gank proof.

    Also, good intel is your friend, even in high sec, whenever unknown ships came in system I immediately ran a check on who they were, if Code or other known gankers back to station I went. I also got to know the regulars in my system and we watched over each other.

    Mining aligned to station is good advice no matter where you are in EVE.

    I avoided popular spots like ice belts, prefering to mine in dead end systems where I could park a scout one system over if I knew hostiles were about.

    Eventually I moved to null sec where the yields were better and mining actually safer in most cases.

    You could have avoided being ganked, but did not take the necessary precautions to do so. (Sometimes paying Code their license fee actually worked) 

    The real mistake was in thinking EVE has safe places, high sec is supposedly safer, but even that is debateable IMO.

    I find many games require similar diligence,  on WOW PVP servers I never traveled the roads, avoided popular camps or quest spots when horde were about killing folks,  or brought a group or higher level guild mates to clear out the enemy.

    Also, I am a master at evading and running in any PVP game I play, felt my characters could be named the "Gingerbread Man."

    :)


    Post edited by Kyleran on
    MrMelGibson

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