Shadow Of War: microtransactions!

YashaXYashaX Baldurs GateMember RarePosts: 2,013
Just found out Shadow of War (sequel to the awesome Shadow of Mordor) will have microtransactions that let you buy loot boxes with a random chance to get good gear and strong orcs, ouch. I was really looking forward to it but won't be getting it now (maybe when its on sale in the future).

https://www.kotaku.com.au/2017/08/middle-earth-shadow-of-war-lets-you-pay-real-money-for-better-gear/
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pantaroSiug
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Comments

  • AnthurAnthur StolbergMember UncommonPosts: 862
    I never understood the "pay not to play" concept where developers add boring, repetitive content so they can sell stuff via micro transactions to bypass it". I always come to the conclusion: So, the game is obviously boring in large parts, why buy it at all ? 
    GdemamiR3d.GallowsCecropiaXodicxcerebrusalkarionlogDagon13xyzercrimeSiugOctagon7711and 2 others.
  • YashaXYashaX Baldurs GateMember RarePosts: 2,013
    Anthur said:
    I never understood the "pay not to play" concept where developers add boring, repetitive content so they can sell stuff via micro transactions to bypass it". I always come to the conclusion: So, the game is obviously boring in large parts, why buy it at all ? 

    Yeah, I mean its one thing to do that in a f2p mmo, but quite another (imo) to do something similar in a single player rpg. 
    ....
  • LeFantomeLeFantome Member RarePosts: 367
    Do you blame the company ? Because as long as people will pay, companies are going to do that. So I don't  blame them for giving them the tools to buy stuff with real  money, instead I blame the players for doing it.
    Copperfieldstealth80GdemamiSlapshot1188alivennatpickAlomarpantaroGobstopper3DOctagon7711and 2 others.

    image
  • sumdumguy1sumdumguy1 A galaxy far far awayMember UncommonPosts: 1,142
    LeFantome said:
    Do you blame the company ? Because as long as people will pay, companies are going to do that. So I don't  blame them for giving them the tools to buy stuff with real  money, instead I blame the players for doing it.
    It pains me to say it but this is true.  If people are paying, there is no reason to really switch it up until that changes.  Its a really fine line though in many games.
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 15,047
    edited August 8
    The problem runs deeper than "some people are willing to pay for loot crates". It goes all the way to the core of how we've starting charging for RPGs - progression.

    Here's a quote from the article:
    It's one thing when a $100 game offers microtransactions for cosmetics. It's quite another when the game wants you to pay to cut down on "some of the additional time that would have been spent winning more battles, tracking nemeses, completing quests and assaulting fortresses".

    So it's okay with Jason from Kotaku that $100 games offer microtrans for cosmetics, but not for gear. Let that sink in for a bit. Kotaku and Jason both are as bad as loot crates themselves and the system they're complaining about.

    This isn't new either. It was prototyped in games like Borderlands 2 where you can get those golden keys by putting in codes Gearbox and 2K offer for jumping through specific hoops. You can probably trace this as far back as horse armour for $1.99.

    Bottom line cosmetics and gear are the same thing when it comes to microtransactions. The core issue is monetizing progression in games instead of just selling the game itself. When you start making excuses for any of it then all of it gets a pass.
    Post edited by Torval on
    laxieblueturtle13CecropiaMadFrenchieMrMelGibsonOctagon7711Excession
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  • laseritlaserit Vancouver, BCMember EpicPosts: 5,084
    I was really looking forward to this game. It was a day one purchase for me, now... not so much. I might pick it up when its on a Steam sale, I might not. Will just have to wait and see.

    Now this crap is creeping into single player games. You can get everything through game play today... probably not so much tomorrow.

    Not really the type of business model I want to support.
    IselinTorvalYashaXLazarus71chambordinCecropiaXodicSiugNildenOctagon7711

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • TyranusPrimeTyranusPrime Sea of JapanMember UncommonPosts: 300
    I will still be picking up this title on day one.. Since the loot boxes will be completely ignored by me, I am mostly unconcerned (other than my usual annoyance at developers for putting them in to start with and players who buy them to rush content or gain advantage)..

    As long as I can play through the story, kill in a grisly fashion, and enjoy the dark scenic vistas of Mordor, I can ignore the micro-transaction issues.. They might get my money for the main game, but they won't see a dime from me for loot boxes..

    ..because we're gamers, damn it!! - William Massachusetts (Log Horizon)

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAMember LegendaryPosts: 23,221
    edited August 8
    I remember reading that  but it sounds like it's completely unnecessary, one can just ignore it. I know I plan to ...
    Post edited by Sovrath on
    Octagon7711forcelima



  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 15,047
    laserit said:
    I was really looking forward to this game. It was a day one purchase for me, now... not so much. I might pick it up when its on a Steam sale, I might not. Will just have to wait and see.

    Now this crap is creeping into single player games. You can get everything through game play today... probably not so much tomorrow.

    Not really the type of business model I want to support.
    I wait for a GotY bundle for almost every game like this. If they iron out all the bugs and include all the stuff for a reasonable price then I'll buy it. That's how I bought Skyrim, Borderlands 2, Civ V, etc.

    My Steam library has 215 titles, GoG 145. That doesn't include Origin, mmos, and other purchases. I don't ever have to buy a game again if it all came down to it.
    GruntylaseritOctagon7711
    The artist or album content may be offensive or controversial.
    Avatar Artist: Howard Blake, Peter Auty (vocalist)
    Album: The Snowman
    Featured Tracks: Walking in the Air
  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCMember LegendaryPosts: 10,286
    laserit said:


    Now this crap is creeping into single player games. You can get everything through game play today... probably not so much tomorrow.


    It is only now that is creeping into single player games that are in real gaming hobbyists' wheelhouse. It has been around for quite some time in casual FB or app store gaming.

    Although it seems like a new trend to us, there's a whole generation of gamers out there who grew up with this crap and think it's normal.
    ConstantineMeruslaseritYashaXSiugCecropiaMadFrenchieOctagon7711
    You say you never compromise
    With the mystery tramp, but now you realize
    He's not selling any alibis
    As you stare into the vacuum of his eyes
    And say "Do you want to make a deal?"
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member EpicPosts: 3,704
    edited August 8




    Post edited by Albatroes on
    YashaXpantaroOctagon7711
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member EpicPosts: 3,704
    edited August 8
    Iselin said:
    laserit said:


    Now this crap is creeping into single player games. You can get everything through game play today... probably not so much tomorrow.


    It is only now that is creeping into single player games that are in real gaming hobbyists' wheelhouse. It has been around for quite some time in casual FB or app store gaming.

    Although it seems like a new trend to us, there's a whole generation of gamers out there who grew up with this crap and think it's normal.
    Since when was this new exactly? EA and Ubisoft have been putting micro-transactions in their single player titles for nearly 5 years now. SE just did it with the latest Deus Ex which I think was last year. Mortal Kombat X as well, forgot who published/developed that. This is usually the symptom of the publisher and not really the developer (if they are different). Leaves a bad taste in my mouth just like day one DLC tbh, since can you really tell if something was meant to be in the game or after the game's completion with day one DLC? I think not.

    Devil's advocate for a moment though. Maybe the current market does feel too entitled though in some regard. One thing older gamers remember about a lot of games from the late 90s and early 2000s is how big the gaming worlds used to be even if they weren't all that graphically great looking. Prime examples would be the final fantasy titles (or almost anything SE made rpg wise in that regard), all the hidden things in games like duke nukem etc. One thing people are kind of forgetting or maybe did not notice is that better graphics come at a price, which is usually smaller environments. Can easily compare the gaming depth of Saint's Row 2 to Saint's Row 3 in terms of environmental depth. But most players want both, which gets expensive, thus leading to cuts somewhere or added expenses in other forms. On top of that, game development hasn't exactly became cheaper over the years either, with designer salaries going up and such. Thus may lead to so many things we see being sold on the side vs being usually free, like skins, bonus difficulties (looking at you Zelda), and so on.

    Personally, I feel certain content shouldn't be sold before a certain point, like day one on when the title is being released or gated behind pre-order bonuses etc. But some things do have to be realistically sold in order for a company to turn a decent enough profit in today's economy, which should include skins, mainly because the art team is usually finished months before the product is ready for release and are still under contract in most cases, so its just wasted time if they aren't doing things and still getting paid.
    Post edited by Albatroes on
    laserit
  • RPGMASTERGAMERRPGMASTERGAMER montreal, QCMember UncommonPosts: 499
    will pick up the game but will not give them money
    i did buy the last one, i dont support these practice and feel nothing wrong with how i handle this releases.
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 15,047
    Iselin said:
    laserit said:


    Now this crap is creeping into single player games. You can get everything through game play today... probably not so much tomorrow.


    It is only now that is creeping into single player games that are in real gaming hobbyists' wheelhouse. It has been around for quite some time in casual FB or app store gaming.

    Although it seems like a new trend to us, there's a whole generation of gamers out there who grew up with this crap and think it's normal.
    It's been around at least since Oblivion and the horse armour. That was the first mass manifestation of the method that I can think of at least and that was what, eleven years ago? It's been in tons of games since and certainly not just FB games. They capitalized on what was already in place.
    laseritMrMelGibson
    The artist or album content may be offensive or controversial.
    Avatar Artist: Howard Blake, Peter Auty (vocalist)
    Album: The Snowman
    Featured Tracks: Walking in the Air
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member EpicPosts: 3,704
    edited August 8
    As an aside, there is one thing I'm wondering why hardly anyone has noticed about today's program market, not just entertainment, which is that we're essentially renting things for retail price vs actually being able to buy and own them outright now. Sure you can buy physical copies but you still need to download massive updates in order for them to be playable, i.e. Fallout 4. This means that if servers ever become unavailable for whatever reason or if changes are made to licensing reasons (i.e. music changes like what happened with GTA San Andreas on pc), you're out a game for whatever price you paid and there's nothing really you can do about it legally tbh. Pretty sad world we live in currently.
    Post edited by Albatroes on
  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAMember LegendaryPosts: 23,221
    will pick up the game but will not give them money
    i did buy the last one, i dont support these practice and feel nothing wrong with how i handle this releases.
    What are you saying? Sound to me like you plan to pirate it. I must be wrong.
    AsheramMrMelGibson



  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCMember LegendaryPosts: 10,286
    Torval said:
    Iselin said:
    laserit said:


    Now this crap is creeping into single player games. You can get everything through game play today... probably not so much tomorrow.


    It is only now that is creeping into single player games that are in real gaming hobbyists' wheelhouse. It has been around for quite some time in casual FB or app store gaming.

    Although it seems like a new trend to us, there's a whole generation of gamers out there who grew up with this crap and think it's normal.
    It's been around at least since Oblivion and the horse armour. That was the first mass manifestation of the method that I can think of at least and that was what, eleven years ago? It's been in tons of games since and certainly not just FB games. They capitalized on what was already in place.
    Yes. But you and I and most of us here who played computer games in the 80s and 90s remember a time when this wasn't so. People in their teens and early 20s have never known anything but this. It's a non issue for them because it's all they've ever known.

    It's also hard to deny that what was once a rarity in AAA PC gaming is not gaining momentum and becoming more common today.
    YashaXCecropiaMadFrenchieMrMelGibsonGobstopper3DExcession
    You say you never compromise
    With the mystery tramp, but now you realize
    He's not selling any alibis
    As you stare into the vacuum of his eyes
    And say "Do you want to make a deal?"
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Figueira da FozMember EpicPosts: 4,567
    A singleplayer game with loot chests? Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

    Wasn't expecting that so soon, but whelp, does this mean they'll hunt down players who cheat and use trainers in SP games to sustain the cash shops? o.O
    YashaXExcession
  • AsheramAsheram Member RarePosts: 2,686
    edited August 8
    So if they are putting micro transactions in their single player rpg does that mean they are also designing the game in a way that tries to encourage people too spend money on said micro transactions aka more grind, hp potions etc.?
    Post edited by Asheram on
    YashaX

    image
  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCMember LegendaryPosts: 10,286
    Asheram said:
    So if they are putting micro transactions in their single player rpg does that mean they are also designing the game in a way that tries to encourage people too spend money on said micro transactions aka more grind, hp potions etc.?
    I think we all know the answer to that is yes. Why would they bother adding a cash shop if it's irrelevant to the game play?
    YashaXR3d.GallowsCecropia
    You say you never compromise
    With the mystery tramp, but now you realize
    He's not selling any alibis
    As you stare into the vacuum of his eyes
    And say "Do you want to make a deal?"
  • laseritlaserit Vancouver, BCMember EpicPosts: 5,084
    Maybe its time to change the meaning of "RPG" from "Role Playing Game" to "Random Payment Generator"
    TorvalYashaXIselinR3d.GallowsCecropiaXodicSiugGobstopper3D

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • YashaXYashaX Baldurs GateMember RarePosts: 2,013
    Torval said:
    The problem runs deeper than "some people are willing to pay for loot crates". It goes all the way to the core of how we've starting charging for RPGs - progression.

    Here's a quote from the article:
    It's one thing when a $100 game offers microtransactions for cosmetics. It's quite another when the game wants you to pay to cut down on "some of the additional time that would have been spent winning more battles, tracking nemeses, completing quests and assaulting fortresses".

    So it's okay with Jason from Kotaku that $100 games offer microtrans for cosmetics, but not for gear. Let that sink in for a bit. Kotaku and Jason both are as bad as loot crates themselves and the system they're complaining about.

    This isn't new either. It was prototyped in games like Borderlands 2 where you can get those golden keys by putting in codes Gearbox and 2K offer for jumping through specific hoops. You can probably trace this as far back as horse armour for $1.99.

    Bottom line cosmetics and gear are the same thing when it comes to microtransactions. The core issue is monetizing progression in games instead of just selling the game itself. When you start making excuses for any of it then all of it gets a pass.

    I can relate to what you are saying, but for me there is a distinct difference, or something of a red line, between selling cosmetics and what they are doing here. It a paradigm shift that has some pretty bad implications for game design going forward imo.
    ....
  • GorweGorwe Ald'RuhnMember RarePosts: 4,292
    This game and WB are fking up the lore so much...but at least Shelob is sexy. At the very least, there's meat to drool over. Even if COMPLETELY miscast. And now, the dreaded microtransactions. Honestly, I hope Chris sues their asses for IP damage. I'll take his mossback conservatism over...this(ugh).
    SavageHorizon
  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAMember LegendaryPosts: 23,221
    will pick up the game but will not give them money
    i did buy the last one, i dont support these practice and feel nothing wrong with how i handle this releases.
    Assuming that you are going to buy the game but not pay for any microtransactions,, I have to say that's my plan.

    I'll buy the game but will not spend a penny on any of their microtransactions.



  • RofusEURofusEU Member UncommonPosts: 14
    Make a game with boring content and then ask players to pay so that they don't need to play... Yeah no, I might just skip the game. The first game was interesting but the combat got repetitive really fast so if the sequel is anything like that I will be better of with just staying away from it.
    Cazriel
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